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View Full Version : Partial Mez Resists - Why they don't work in PvE


Prova
11-13-2011, 07:31 AM
tl;dr - Most recent patch seems to have reverted the issue previously described. Resists appear all or nothing in PvE currently.

lethdar
11-13-2011, 01:29 PM
Uh wat. Do you even play?

tsaC
11-13-2011, 02:07 PM
wayy tldr for some scrub, do you people actually expect folks to read your wall of texts when you're not an emperor or someone equally important?

fuck off.

Bazia
11-13-2011, 02:11 PM
wayy tldr for some scrub, do you people actually expect folks to read your wall of texts when you're not an emperor or someone equally important?

fuck off.

waaaaay tldr scrub ur not important im cast fuk off scrub tldr text moran fuk im cast

Prova
11-13-2011, 04:05 PM
I may or may not play on live, but I am, as far as I know, the only one
who has beta tested this shit in the planes. Feel free to try to bard CC anything in the planes, let me know how it goes.

Crenshinabon
11-13-2011, 04:08 PM
If it is like this it indeed sounds broken. Would hate to be an enchanter in this case.

Truth
11-13-2011, 04:10 PM
tl;dr - mez is heinously fucked in PvE currently, esp at high end


Let me start by saying that I understand why this change was put in, and that this is a PvP server and most changes have been made with PvP in mind, but I don't think this one was particularly thought through or tested much as of yet. Being able to effectively act as a bard or enchanter in PvE requires you understand and roughly keep track of how long something will be under your CC for. If 4 adds come into camp as a bard, I cycle through them with mez, and if I've timed them right, the mobs stay CC'd. The only caveat is when there is a resist, at which point you have to make a decision to try to CC that mob again or move onto the next in the pack (assuming there are 4 here) knowing that this one that resisted will run free. This works relatively the same for an enchanter. You throw down your mez's early and keep track of when they are approximately going to run off and redo them a bit before, leaving room for resists. This is how things have been CC'd for the entirety of Everquest. It's a fundamental mechanic of the game in PvE, the bread and butter of why enchanters existed and were played. You could predictably remove certain mobs from the picture.

Currently, the partial resist system turns PvE crowd control completely on its head. Without any resist messages on partials, you have no idea when anything is going to cut loose. Crowd control becomes a total cluster fuck.

In the bard example, you might as well tear your hair out because any one of those 4 mobs at any time are probably going to be running all over the fucking place. Enchanters might be in the middle of a SLTW recast when the mez breaks, which means that you won't even be able to react (because you cannot cancel your own spell cast) for maybe another 5 seconds.

In some circumstances, mez becomes so unreliable that it's almost a liability. Why mez something that you are now pretty sure it will run and beat on SOMEONE for a few seconds before you're able to react? Your only option is to chain cast it on one mob every few seconds, otherwise, you'll have no reliable concept of keeping something locked down.

The problem with this became apparent when I was in Hate the other night. I had a single mob in camp that I was chain CCing with my bard. Just sitting there with mez pulsing on it. I saw zero partial resist messages, yet it was running all over the place the entire time. It just killed one person after another after another. All while resists indicated it was CC'd. Bards mez usually lasts 4 pulses, it is the reason why they can mez 4 mobs. These partial CC resists were breaking before 1 full pulse almost every time.

With my enchanter, it was essentially the same thing. Dealing with hate mobs, you just had no idea when something was going to break and start raping people. CC is so unpredictable that <any> add was a wipe.


This probably won't seem like a big deal for a few weeks, but once people start getting into their 20s, there's going to be an uproar. The current system has completely fucked PvE crowd control.


I agree with everything you said

lethdar
11-13-2011, 04:13 PM
Here is what changed:

Bard Snare and Mez now have resist checks every pulse instead of just on the first pulse


Null changed how bard mez works, not enchanter unless it was done unintentionally. So far all i see is someone who has read the patch notes and flipped out without testing anything post patch. Have you tested bard mez in pve post patch vs just pvp? Have you tested anything with an enchanter? You said last night, wasn't the patch applied this morning, you sure someone didn't just dot a mob to fuck with you?

Too much txt and theorizing, not enough data and testing, your post could be summed up as this:

Mob acted weird last night in plane of hate with my bard mez, will do further tests post patch with enchanter / bard to verify.

tsaC
11-13-2011, 04:21 PM
bard mez pve? ur doing it wrong.

/manasong on
/afk on

:cool:

Prova
11-13-2011, 04:49 PM
Yes, I tested with an enchanter. The effects were less pronounced because of the longer duration. A partial with an enchanter still lasts 20 or 30 seconds, with a bards much shorter duration mez, the issue is a lot more visible.

The system works the same PvE pre patch and post patch. If it did not, the mob would either have a partial duration that lasted less than 1 tick (would run everywhere) or longer (would stay perma CC'd) and that partial would flow through to each pulse. There were also very rare full resists present during the pulsing, which further backs up that they acted differently in PvE pre patch.

If this resist system stays this way, it will make mass CC efforts like what's required to break fear much much more difficult. It makes bard CC essentially useless on mobs of slightly higher level or higher than average MR. It probably won't make a lick of difference on blue trash mob stuff that people grind on, but on higher stuff it's a fucking horror show.

tsaC
11-13-2011, 05:00 PM
tldr x2

lethdar
11-13-2011, 05:07 PM
Just checked with enchanter for pvp, 20/20 enthralls lasted the full duration +/- 1 second with 100mr. Not able to check raid mobs obviously, but the latest change doesnt seem to have changed enc mez in pvp at all.

Lovely
11-13-2011, 05:16 PM
I didn't even read the thread but I can confirm that every dazzle I've used lasted for full duration just like before.

Prova
11-13-2011, 05:24 PM
I'll do my best to come up with some better numbers, clearly not easy given raid mobs etc.

edit -
Apparently post patch actually changed bard mes to how it was in PvP. Pixie Strike now lands on loathling lich, one CC message, perma mezzed since it landed a few minutes ago. Resists have either been all or nothing, partial seems to be gone.

/wrist

DarthPeon
11-13-2011, 06:51 PM
I'll do my best to come up with some better numbers, clearly not easy given raid mobs etc.

edit -
Apparently post patch actually changed bard mes to how it was in PvP. Pixie Strike now lands on loathling lich, one CC message, perma mezzed since it landed a few minutes ago. Resists have either been all or nothing, partial seems to be gone.

/wrist

And this is how it should be to not completely break the class in pve. If it was changed it's a poor knee jerk reaction to the post lovely made showing 1 idiot just mezing her character. That is a non issue due to all of the ways you can deal with it. Logging out, crimson pot, calling friends to come interrupt, etc.

Every time a bard twists a song a new resist check is made on the new cast, something a bard will be doing anyways.

Lovely for all of your contributions, some of your recent posts like the new MR casts not showing your true buffed MR are borderline stupid and you need to consider the overall benefit of the server. Be cool friend, be cool.

Lovely
11-13-2011, 07:01 PM
The last MR post obviously isn't serious and it's also stated in post and so is the MR I had during the casts. About the bard thing, it's not like anyone knew that it would change PVE mezzing. Now we do though!

billyinorganic
11-13-2011, 08:00 PM
im gay

Null
11-13-2011, 09:53 PM
Mez spells should not be getting partials in PvP or PvE. So if they are, something is wrong and needs fixing.

Prova
11-13-2011, 10:04 PM
Whatever last patch did cleared it up. Thanks Null.