Patch Feedback (11/13/2011)

[Null]

So we had a patch earlier today and I think it flew a bit under the radar. This is the final patch before release day that we will have, so things like resists and AC need the last bit of testing before they are final. Please post about anything that you feel is required to be fixed before the server release.

Here is what changed:

Bard Snare and Mez now have resist checks every pulse instead of just on the first pulse
Greatly Increased the effect of AC in PvP. Any feedback about this will need the attackers ATK and the defenders AC.
Added a Resist mod for Stuns to about where Root was last build. Enchanters nuke line is exempt from this.
Decreased the amount of MR needed to get the full benefit of Root and Snare resist mods. Basically 120MR is where 140MR was.
Fixed an issue with spells fading on the client but remaining on the server.

[tsaC]

furst

[Truth]

secund

[Null]

Thanks bros.

[Dfn]

Looking good Null, good changes.

[Greenkrak]

ive made a lvl 50 toon of every relevant class


if this is intended then disregard

with wiz dru sham nukes (basically fire n ice nuke) ive yet to see a complete red resist. usually these nukes are doin close to they're full potential


With enchanter nukes (magic) pretty often I will get a FULL red resist on ppl i've pillaged pillaged tashed. Have had this happen several times - these ppls MR are 120 or below

I know at 120 FR/CR you will not be gettin a full resist on wiz/dru nukes
At 130 PR was gettin a rare FULL resist on Ebolt

Maybe thats the way it shuld be but just bringing it up
agruing for ench nukes to be more reliable - DD+stun i guess just makes the chanter nukes a bit dicy?

[Smedy]

nice null, doin it big dog

[Lovely]

Greatly Increased the effect of AC in PvP. Any feedback about this will need the attackers ATK and the defenders AC.

What's it suppose to do? Higher miss rate? Lower damage?

Also the Enchanter nukes are getting resisted due to the stun/knock that's attached to the nukes. It's the same deal on all the Wizard nukes with stun/knocks.

[Fryden Goldenbeard]

Sweet! lets get started! ;)

[AffEcT]

Stun partials been removed?

[Lovely]

Stun partials been removed?

Don't think so cause my stuns lasted 1 second or less. (10 sec stun in PVE)

[tsaC]

Also the Enchanter nukes are getting resisted due to the stun/knock that's attached to the nukes. It's the same deal on all the Wizard nukes with stun/knocks.

Haven't you figured this out, dumb fuck - the code can't separate stun spells from enchanter nukes.

It's like you people need your hand held for everything, release the server so I never have to interact with these morans again.

[Lovely]

Haven't you figured this out, dumb fuck - the code can't separate stun spells from enchanter nukes.

It's like you people need your hand held for everything, release the server so I never have to interact with these morans again.

Rofl wow I'm amazed how dumb you are. I write that Enchanter nukes get resisted due to the fact that they have a stun/knock attached to them and your reply is that I'm stupid cause I don't know that the code count nukes with stuns the same as regular stuns? That's what I just wrote you dumbasssss

[AffEcT]

OK?

Change: Roots/Snares are easy to resist but removed custom partial.
Change: Stuns are easy to resist but do not remove custom partial.
I don't really get this.

If stuns rarely land, shouldn't they at least have full duration?

IMO the old system is probably better. Enchanters don't get fucked as much
with the other code.

[Cymbal]

can we make magic based nukes actually useful in pvp?

its not fair fire / ice is doing crazy damage

[tsaC]

http://emoticons4u.com/crazy/097.gif

[gloinz]

ive made a lvl 50 toon of every relevant class


if this is intended then disregard

with wiz dru sham nukes (basically fire n ice nuke) ive yet to see a complete red resist. usually these nukes are doin close to they're full potential


With enchanter nukes (magic) pretty often I will get a FULL red resist on ppl i've pillaged pillaged tashed. Have had this happen several times - these ppls MR are 120 or below

I know at 120 FR/CR you will not be gettin a full resist on wiz/dru nukes
At 130 PR was gettin a rare FULL resist on Ebolt

Maybe thats the way it shuld be but just bringing it up
agruing for ench nukes to be more reliable - DD+stun i guess just makes the chanter nukes a bit dicy?

chanter nukes were always ez to resist working as intended

[Crenshinabon]

can we make magic based nukes actually useful in pvp?

its not fair fire / ice is doing crazy damage

The only 2 classes that really get fked by this are enchanters and clerics, neither of which are meant to deal a lot of damage.

Not to mention enchanters have a built in interrupt.
If you are worried about MR, just simply don't play these 2 classes for their nuking powers.

[Silikten]

I would have to agree stuns should last full duration. That is the intended affect and it is always short. Pretty crucial to stun classes.

[Cymbal]

i know thats the way it used to be...

but this server wants every spell to be useful in pvp

u buffed ice/fire already, umm wouldnt it be wise to even up the playing field?

im tired of seein server dominated by nec, druid, mage, wiz. You buffed their nukes after listening to 2-3 cry babies. at least try to make things more balanced.

[lethdar]

i know thats the way it used to be...

but this server wants every spell to be useful in pvp

u buffed ice/fire already, umm wouldnt it be wise to even up the playing field?

im tired of seein server dominated by nec, druid, mage, wiz. You buffed their nukes after listening to 2-3 cry babies. at least try to make things more balanced.

Uh, you want enchanters, loaded with CC / pillage etc to be able to nuke as well as wizard/mages?

You want clerics who can outheal any nuking class already to nuke as hard as them?

Jesus, have you thought this out at all? Try again newbie, learn to play.

[Cymbal]

are u retarded man ,

CC aint going to work

and their nukes flat out arent as good...

do i expect them to nuke as hard no? again i used a key word... "useful"

[tsaC]

Cymbal I think ur on to something pal, keep up the good work.

Cya around. :o

[lethdar]

Enchanters and Clerics unable to nuke in pvp, now useless unwanted classes, NEWS AT 11

[gloinz]

clarity is overpowered nerf everything to do with enchanters

[Cymbal]

Um did i say useless? no

keep trolling ur class into being more op

the wrong classes got buffs, u all know,

game is completely unbalanced in the first place so u make it worse? doesnt make sense

i would have prefered no changes made than changes in the wrong direction

lookin to even the board and it was stated all spells are supposed to be useful in pvp

[Tombom]

so excite! good work overlord null dreg herder

[lethdar]

Playing an enchanter bro, you bad.

Just because a class is more complex than HURRR HIT NUKE OVER AND OVER doesn't mean they're bad, ench's are jawesome already.

[gloinz]

Playing an enchanter bro, you bad.

Just because a class is more complex than HURRR HIT NUKE OVER AND OVER doesn't mean they're bad, ench's are jawesome already.

lethdar seems to be having to say this often
fighting good enchanters = scary business for the champ (though of course manageable)

fighting bad enchanters = might be eziest class to face in the box

better start hitting them weights cymbal and get freddie roach as your trainer

[Greenkrak]

Malo is auto dispelled on Zoning


Is Engulfing Darkness on same resist table as root/ snare? Seems to land more often.

[Cymbal]

im sure ur a great enchanter and do great things with the class

doesnt help the balance

[Silikten]

I still think fire/ice spells land too often for high amounts of damage. Everything else seems pretty good

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

chanter nukes were always ez to resist working as intended

THIS is why you don't change the resists from normal EQ live. On EQ live, it might take someone 2-3 ice comets to kill another caster with high resists. On this server, many casters will probably be dying from 1 ice comet.

Now those casters who die from 1 ice comet are whining that their offense isn't high enough. So what happens now? Just keep increasing spells all over the board while ignoring melee balance?

[Darwoth]

THIS is why you don't change the resists from normal EQ live. On EQ live, it might take someone 2-3 ice comets to kill another caster with high resists. On this server, many casters will probably be dying from 1 ice comet.

Now those casters who die from 1 ice comet are whining that their offense isn't high enough. So what happens now? Just keep increasing spells all over the board while ignoring melee balance?

under the current system with 150 cold resist on a 950 hp target unless the target gets an unlucky streak it will on average take 3 comets to smoke an int caster.

fire and cold are also the easiest resists to stack.

[Amuk]

Good changes Null.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

under the current system with 150 cold resist on a 950 hp target unless the target gets an unlucky streak it will on average take 3 comets to smoke an int caster.

fire and cold are also the easiest resists to stack.

It's more pointing out how the door has been opened for endless class complaints due to making it "custom".

Someone was even complaining that cleric is the new premiere PvP class and that a cleric was interrupting everyone's spells with stuns and nuking them to death in beta.

I was on the PvP leader board for VZTZ during this era as a melee so I'm relatively good at playing one, it's going to hilarious reading the complaints from p1999 blue players who decide to play a melee on this server.

If you're just an average player and decide to play a monk or rogue here with all this custom crap, some of these people won't kill anyone after playing 2 years straight, while also dying 10x more often than EQ live PvP. There's going to be constant calls to change everything due to all this fiddling around with all the game mechanics.

For example, that Darkenbane barbarian shaman used to try and cast disease dots on me on SZ, I'd resist TONS of them with pitifully low disease resist, maybe like 45-50DR. Good luck dealing with ebolt landing every single time as a blue server player playing monk, rogue, or warrior here. With NO see invis items to boot, so they just walk up, stand right next to you, then cast a spell that takes off 89% of your HP in one shot lol. This is going to be retarded for many people who don't choose Null's specific classes that he has pigeon holed people into choosing since the survivability of others has been decreased to nothingness.

[Darwoth]

if the primary issue left was stuns (thought it was) and stuns have been toned down as per this patch isn't it largely fixed now?

[Darwoth]

shaman dots were always an issue early on both with RZ and SZ, then people bought cure potions and shamans were just as fucked as druids and necros when it came to dots.

i dont remember hardly ever being tagged with disease dots, ebolt however landed on me a lot with 130 or so pr back then, cant say an exact percent but i would estimate a good 65 - 70% of the time, wasnt an issue though because two potion clicks and your good.

if lack of channeling is going to prevent someone from curing grab some horns instead.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

It's easy for people to say shaman potions nullify shaman and necro dots, but there's not going to be a bazaar for them obviously, and there really was no free market for such things on SZ. They were pretty damn hard to find. You could obviously make a potion crafting mule, but really, most people just don't craft on a PvP server.

You also end up with those fights where some chanter chain spams you with tash over and over and you blow like 10 charges for one fight alone and they're gone.

Same story with pumice. I had to cast dispel on myself literally 400 times per day on VZTZ due to all the CC spam. When I played a character that didn't have the spell, it was just a nightmare trying to keep them in supply. Not to mention the whole 0 channeling skill thing for pure melee.

Due to all these factors that come together, and their much higher survivability due to healing, I feel Null has pigeon holed any non-retarded melee player into choosing SK, Pal, and Ranger way before warrior, monk, rogue if you actually care about winning. (people like Rexx that just log in to raid on warrior then log out right after do not count)

[Darwoth]

you can recharge 10 packs of pots here for relatively cheap if you dont have a shaman friend/guildmate to make them fresh each time.

not sure what you expect really, the resistance system as it stands is pretty close to classic all the other stuff your taking issue with is just how the game is (lack of see invis items until kunark, blowing charges on tash, monks/rogues not being a good solo class etc)

nobody played a monk, rogue or warrior during classic unless they were with a group as those are group dependant classes. seems like what your taking issue with at this point instead of resistances is the game being classic era and those classes having the same shortcomings for the timeframe that they always had.

[Mrcurtloco]

if you think null hates melee you dont know null beastmaster fo life!

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

seems like what your taking issue with at this point instead of resistances is the game being classic era and those classes having the same shortcomings for the timeframe that they always had.

Nah, it's pretty easy to see, or for anyone that spent a lot of time on VZTZ pre-kunark, that pure melee survivability is much lower than EQ live. CC spam, disease and poison landing easier, higher caster damage, no channeling skill to pell the stuff off during fights, etc.

If you don't agree about full resist rate increasing exponentially with higher resists, that's only 1 of the issues out of the many you can mark off.

Hybrids were already a better choice than pure melee on EQ live usually, so Null has basically completely ignored melee balance, while concentrating on how enjoyable he can make the game for mindless, ice comet spammer, PvP gank squads, who all just plan to 6vs1 zerg anyway.

if you think null hates melee you dont know null beastmaster fo life!

Beastlord is quite a different PvP experience. They can spam heal themselves. Unless you've played with an HP bar that doesn't move by itself and you have to constantly run off and hide to bandage yourself, then you don't know pvP balanace.

[Mrcurtloco]

aye , but beastlord dmg is primarily melee

[Silikten]

under the current system with 150 cold resist on a 950 hp target unless the target gets an unlucky streak it will on average take 3 comets to smoke an int caster.

fire and cold are also the easiest resists to stack.

I had 120cr and IC never hit for less than 796 damage. Got hit about 8 times that night.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

aye , but beastlord dmg is primarily melee

Beastlord is more like 1/3rd pet, 1/3rd melee, 1/3rd casting. Um, anyway, what kind of respectable PvP player actually plays a beastlord?

[Mrcurtloco]

pets melee =2/3rds melee, wich isnt correct but even in your formula 2/3rds melee

[Truth]

Beastlord is more like 1/3rd pet, 1/3rd melee, 1/3rd casting. Um, anyway, what kind of respectable PvP player actually plays a beastlord?

beastlords peaked in pvp at around 65. hardly saw any after that


they top pve dps parses on live now beating rogues and necros tho

[Mrcurtloco]

beastlords peaked in pvp at around 65. hardly saw any after that


they top pve dps parses on live now beating rogues and necros tho

naez your fired if you actually still have a live account and parse

[Truth]

naez your fired if you actually still have a live account and parse

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6900/grungar.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6900/grungar.jpg)

Haven't played in a couple months :o

[Cymbal]

really good points made by nuk3

i dont see any good arguments against

[Tamiah2011]

So we had a patch earlier today and I think it flew a bit under the radar. This is the final patch before release day that we will have, so things like resists and AC need the last bit of testing before they are final. Please post about anything that you feel is required to be fixed before the server release.

Here is what changed:

Bard Snare and Mez now have resist checks every pulse instead of just on the first pulse
Greatly Increased the effect of AC in PvP. Any feedback about this will need the attackers ATK and the defenders AC.
Added a Resist mod for Stuns to about where Root was last build. Enchanters nuke line is exempt from this.
Decreased the amount of MR needed to get the full benefit of Root and Snare resist mods. Basically 120MR is where 140MR was.
Fixed an issue with spells fading on the client but remaining on the server.





Thanks Null and testers for all your hard work, the rest of you bitch's prepare to get owned muhahahah

[Vile]

Null can you run some leet script parsing on rogue backstabs?

[Nirgon]

Posting before reading other comments: this looks very, very good Big Null.

[dusk883]

I pity Enchanters on the server. Personal opinion that MR does too much already compared to "back in the day". Chanter nukes are mana intense and even when not resisted at all you're not going to actually kill anyone solo. Then throw in the MR that exists now, enchanter nukes are a complete waste of time. Can't charm players, sucks to be you eh.

I'll group with you, poor chanter.

[Nirgon]

A no item loot environment is pretty tough on enchanters, yeah. Good thing (hopefully) no resist check on theft of thought/mana sieve. iirc there shouldn't be one. It's a magic spell that always landed on Vox (from melee range ofc).

[Jigga]

Ench should not rely on their big nukes. On tz in 99 era it was viable because people didnt know yet that MR is key but end of 99 and in kunark people caught on.

Ench never been known as a nuker and I would welcome an ench in my pvp group every time knowing that they wont land a nuke

[dusk883]

Haste machines that are expendable IMO. Send the chanter out for bait, pst the Cleric not to bother healing him, we already have our buffs, CC spells are resisted too much. The one thing that was great IMO about old school live Enchanters was that CC spells were GOING to land and be effective.

Last night I watched an enchanter dump all his shit into my bard and I resisted his mana bar. Chanted him to the zone and let him go. There won't be any high end enchanters on the server IMHO. A shame. Chanters have to be happy to be buffing bots and leave it at that, it'll be a snore for them to actually pvp.

[Amuk]

I haven't tested since the event, but snares/roots were landing on me with 80 mr - a fully geared classic monk will be sitting around 115 mr unbuffed. Enchanters will have to dispell buffs and tash like live to get them to ccable range omg that's such a shame.

[Vile]

lol @ people crying for classic and now crying it's classic

[Truth]

lol @ people crying for classic and now crying it's classic

[Nirgon]

No tears here. Nobody 50+ relied on root/stun as a PvP "go to" against geared players and we managed to do just fine.

[stonetz]

lol @ people crying for classic and now crying it's classic

So true, loving it.

[Vile]

No tears here. Nobody 50+ relied on root/stun as a PvP "go to" against geared players and we managed to do just fine.

I wasn't pointing any fingers and I know you're already supporting what system is in place.

It's just the majority of the people hear are crying for it to be classic, and when Null is pretty fucking close, people want changes.

[Nirgon]

I'm saying it's pretty close and the 'emu only'/'noobs on live' kiddies are having a shit fit.

[tsaC]

really good points made by nuk3

i dont see any good arguments against

wow, u read his posts?

1/100 aint bad i guess..

[Silikten]

wow, u read his posts?

1/100 aint bad i guess..

Well, he's definitely up on you....

[tsaC]

now ur just joshin

[Silikten]

no tom foolery here

[tsaC]

http://emoticons4u.com/dressed/bek040.gif

[Cymbal]

dusk has some good points as well

plz listen ;p

ignore ballsac

[tsaC]

http://emoticons4u.com/sleep/schla21.gif

[Toomuch]

Short version of my thoughts - with no chance of fully resisting damage spells in general, melee's are going to get shit on, as the damage is higher than what is was on live, also factor in levitate, etc.

That said, I'm playing a caster for sure, so I'm not gonna cry too badly about this. I have been either set on it or leaning toward it for a long time, but deep in my heart of hearts I'd like to be a warrior, and have a chance to not get exploded every time someone casts a spell on me. But now with the system that's in place that was balanced around the best gear possible at this stage of the game, and the balance STILL leans caster, there's absolutely no question on my mind that I'd rather NOT get facerolled into oblivion (or Skyrim... c wut I did thar?), and caster it is.

I think the damage changes have been pretty good in general, but there is 1 massive flaw: there needs to be a SLIM, YET SCALING (with resists) chance to fully resist nukes and dots. I haven't fought a lot of dotting classes lately, so I dunno how full resists are working with those, but full resists (even on nukes) are simply part of the game... anyone that says otherwise just "don't know", and "better axe somebody", nahmean? :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROVhJBA_NDs

And while we're at it, I'd say eventually it would be nice to figure out a way to throw magic nukers a bone and let them do SOME reliable damage, but obviously not as much as reg DD nuking classes. Nuking should be something they CAN do, but not nearly as well as regular DD classes. Making cleric/enchanter nukes a little bit "useful" later on will be nice. At the start of the server they'll be fine, since nobody's going to have resists yet. This is something to look into eventually, but not top priority right now imo.

[Cymbal]

toomuch i like what u said

coach is fired omg

[gdg]

I agree with you toomuch. Current resists system certainly favors a number of caster classes.

Time to dust of the necro and own faces. Can't wait for Friday!

[Silikten]

Yes. The resist system definitely isn't scaling right with resists. There was a time when only lures would land. The levitate tactic is fair and square. Melees can get peg cloak/dmf/bobbing corpse.

Not fully resisting any nukes while playing this beta for over a month is just awful. Nukes land way to easily. It seems like the resists just take full dmg + resist stat and partial that. So it is basically saying in Kunark when resists are near 200 they will not land at all or for like 50 damage. Of course, this is just how it seems, for the past month+.

[Not_Kazowi]

(people like Rexx that just log in to raid on warrior then log out right after do not count)

Because i never lead my guild Heresy to victory, or spent countless hours defending zone control over planes and raid mobs. GTFO

reveal yourself