exp loss, in or out?

[mostbitter]

please some staff member tell me this awful idea is out

[Kain]

I expect its staying in but I'm also wager your out.

[Lovely]

Everyone crying about XP loss is the tears the PK's will harvest the most.

[Tamiah2011]

Everyone crying about XP loss is the tears the PK's will harvest the most.

remove exp. loss replace with 1 item loot, very easy fix.Exp. loss makes very little sense.

[LittleSorcerer7]

EXP loss will probably makes people be outta here quick after getting camped for a while

[Palemoon]

xp loss is good in the long run, for the server

Death, be vs. mobs or PC's needs to be " a big deal " , Will also keep people out in the world longer, xping to get xp pvp buffer, recover xp from loss, etc.

[PhantomRogue]

remove exp. loss replace with 1 item loot, very easy fix.Exp. loss makes very little sense.

Item loot is dumb, items take longer to get than EXP.

If people whine about losing a bubble of exp, i would hate to see them lose the FBSS or Kunark BP. Talk about the Rage Quitting.

[Softcore PK]

Exp loss is good for us, though it never feels like it at the time :P

[Cymbal]

make exp loss resable atleast

u stil have a huge inconvenience, cr, etc

atleast u have the option to pay a cleric instead

wasnt it resable on sullon zek?

[Rogean]

If people whine about losing a bubble of exp, i would hate to see them lose the FBSS or Kunark BP. Talk about the Rage Quitting.

It's probably closer to 1/3 or 1/4 a bubble.

[Cymbal]

newb question buuutt... 1/4 a blue bubble right? heh

[Billbike]

remove exp. loss replace with 1 item loot, very easy fix.Exp. loss makes very little sense.

http://rebelyogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Shut-the-fuck-up1.bmp

[Chronoburn]

Just make it rezzable like SZ.

[oldfish]

1/4 of a blue doesnt sound so bad... at level 5 when one dark blue mob = ~1/4 of a blue.

Keep in mind that on Rallos you had PVP fests that lasted for 5-6 hours straight... now imagine how much 1/4ths of a blue that means.

Anyhow, ill roll with it but i think it will not be beneficial to server pop. I dont think people will roll on red99 to play a hybrid blue/red server...

[Softcore PK]

I dont think people will roll on red99 to play a hybrid blue/red server...

What do you mean by this?

[pickled_heretic]

What do you mean by this?

it means that pvp without consequence is what a lot of people want because pvp is fun for its own sake at times and this discourages it. i can't blame them. big brawls that occur for long periods of time are going to result in some pretty significant experience loss.

[mostbitter]

I would rather be able to hit 50 and pvp my heart out without ever having to go back to grinding because i lost a few too many fights. This whole pvp doesn't have enough consequence theory is bullshit. There are no games out that even come close to the natural penalty everquest pvp already encurs. I guess i'll just wait until these blue staff see the consequences of their actions. I don't suspect it will take much more than a couple of people getting pvped out of a few levels until the outcry against exp loss reaches critical mass and they see the light.

Currently I plan to play anyway. My fears for the exp loss are not for myself as I have a crew to roll with and a lot of experience on a pvp server, my fear is that the only people who are going to be willing to play are other people like myself from the vz/tz population and it's going to be another server full of griefers and assholes much like myself and no casuals for us to pick on.

[Cymbal]

Just make it rezzable like SZ.

/agree

moar powa 2 da clerics

[Rushmore]

I say keep it in.... Lets discuss After a couple months go by!

The point has been made.. People that keep fighting and losing they will stop because of xp loss. Or half there guild will stop!

Its going to be a good thing pals!

[stonetz]

I say keep it in.... Lets discuss After a couple months go by!

The point has been made.. People that keep fighting and losing they will stop because of xp loss. Or half there guild will stop!

Its going to be a good thing pals!


I think the most positive thing is it makes it easier to decide a guild contest over a raid etc because you won't have an endless bind rush against the team holding it down. Once you have it you'll have it sort of. I remember times where there were so many bodies (plane of innovation if anyone was around) where I had to use the hidecorpseall hotkey and it went on for hours and hours.

It's going to piss off all the people that solo but oh well.

I'd say if you can make it kick in after lvl 20 or something at least people will have time to get used to the server first. Seems like a good compromise.

[oldfish]

I think the problem is that PVP is seen as a way to solve poopsocking disputes first and PVP being thought as being fun in itself takes a distant second. It should be the other way around.

The person who said EQ pvp has one of the harshest penalties for dying without xp loss is right. 5-10mins sit down for mana and health, re-memorizing spells, walking to your corpse (this is especially harsh for melees), losing coins... xp loss is just excessive.

People who say people who arent rolling with a ganking train will quit fast are right, and often its hard to get people who quit back.

Id say dont wait a few months to make a decision if xp loss stays or not

I thought that my "rooting in place" solution wasnt so elegant, but i like it more than xp loss.

[Bazooka]

I think it is to prevent mindless bind rush harrassment. Like if you killed someone and took a camp and they just kept coming back to screw with you just so you couldn't have the camp either.

If there are actually losing something by dying they will be less inclined to harass you while you're camping something or have some goal that can be fucked with by nude caster harassment.

That's my guess and I approve of it.

[Nune]

Why's this being discussed? It's not going to be taken out

[oldfish]

I think it is to prevent mindless bind rush harrassment. Like if you killed someone and took a camp and they just kept coming back to screw with you just so you couldn't have the camp either.

If there are actually losing something by dying they will be less inclined to harass you while you're camping something or have some goal that can be fucked with by nude caster harassment.

That's my guess and I approve of it.

Thats blue thinking... youre not supposed to be able to lay claim to a camp easily.

[Softcore PK]

Thats blue thinking... youre not supposed to be able to lay claim to a camp easily.

Who said it's easy? You risk pvp, risk exp loss..

far from blue imo.

[oldfish]

Who said it's easy? You risk pvp, risk exp loss..

far from blue imo.

its stupid easy.

More numbers = level faster = twink faster = win = no xp loss = no risk = easy camp hold = the same as calling a camp on blue

its just gonna be a question of who can gather the biggest zerg guild

It would still be the same without xp loss but at least guerilla tactics would be more viable

[Lovely]

Without exp loss the whole Everquest PVP asmosphere gets ruined. Then you can just bind at your XP camp and if someone kill you, then you just respawn and start attacking the people that ganked you over and over. You're suppose to be afraid of dying not threat it the way you do in games like WOW when it doesn't matter at all if you die or not.

[oldfish]

Without exp loss the whole Everquest PVP asmosphere gets ruined. Then you can just bind at your XP camp and if someone kill you, then you just respawn and start attacking the people that ganked you over and over. You're suppose to be afraid of dying not threat it the way you do in games like WOW when it doesn't matter at all if you die or not.

Yeah you really show how youve done lots of EQ pvp right there.

Suuuuuure, just bind yourself right next to the camp so you can pop there when you die, naked out of mana and health so their tracker can find your bind point and bind fuck you in a death loop, makes perfect sense.

[Bazia]

Yeah you really show how youve done lots of EQ pvp right there.

Suuuuuure, just bind yourself right next to the camp so you can pop there when you die, naked out of mana and health so their tracker can find your bind point and bind fuck you in a death loop, makes perfect sense.

Who gives a fuck if your in a death loop when you don't lose exp. You'll just keep dying until they get bored, med a bit and continue to disrupt with trains or spells once you can again.

All a lack of death penalty will do is enable more people to be annoying as fuck with trains/bind harassment, its obvious. If people want to take a camp from you with PvP that's fine but to just annoy people with trains and shit once they have defeated you is dumb.

No death penalty is fucking stupid and you're fucking stupid for wanting it that way, period.

[mostbitter]

I've played a lot of eq pvp and I've never been bothered by someone trying to bind rush me. If i won the first fight chances are pretty good i'm going to win the second fight against a weaker version of the person I just killed. To go even further you could just as easily prevent bind rushing by making it so that people can't bind in dungeons and then bind rushing becomes a non factor by preventing people from being bound near any camp worth fighting over. I guess i'm just arguing with a brick wall and I'll have to grief people to tears so they can do it for me when the server comes out but I'll make one last point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushmore View Post
I say keep it in.... Lets discuss After a couple months go by!

The point has been made.. People that keep fighting and losing they will stop because of xp loss. Or half there guild will stop!

Its going to be a good thing pals!

I think the most positive thing is it makes it easier to decide a guild contest over a raid etc because you won't have an endless bind rush against the team holding it down. Once you have it you'll have it sort of. I remember times where there were so many bodies (plane of innovation if anyone was around) where I had to use the hidecorpseall hotkey and it went on for hours and hours.

It's going to piss off all the people that solo but oh well.

I'd say if you can make it kick in after lvl 20 or something at least people will have time to get used to the server first. Seems like a good compromise.


The trend for proponents of the exp loss mechanic are not concerned at all about the population of the server or how dynamic the types of players who will play on it. They are too eager to admit that this will discourage pvp, and guise is as being a one time thing. I'll let you in on a secret though when someone knows they are going to get shit on they are going to try to evade pvp, to know that they would also lose exp is only going to give them more reason to evade pvp.

These proponents of exp loss have the distinct attitude of a griefer. It's evident to anyone who is looking that this is what is really being catered to. This mechanic of extra grief in a game where people still hate people they played on pvp servers with twelve years later for the grief they where able to cause without additional penalties such as exp loss should be enough proof but I guess we are all going to learn the hard what is already obvious to me.

[oldfish]

Who gives a fuck if your in a death loop when you don't lose exp. You'll just keep dying until they get bored, med a bit and continue to disrupt with trains or spells once you can again.

All a lack of death penalty will do is enable more people to be annoying as fuck with trains/bind harassment, its obvious. If people want to take a camp from you with PvP that's fine but to just annoy people with trains and shit once they have defeated you is dumb.

No death penalty is fucking stupid and you're fucking stupid for wanting it that way, period.

Its not gonna stop people who really want to pvp from PVPing... its just gonna make them lose xp. So the persistant ones not in a zerg guild might get bored that they cant pvp without a huge grind backload, and decide that the drudgery of the PVE grind is not worth the pvp bother.

All that will be left is people like Softcore PK who im sure no matter their "im so red" talk will avoid PVP whenever possible... doesnt sound like a fun pvp server to me... You will be able to sort out endgame poopsocking better, sure... is it worth making a whole new server for that though?

Anyway... what will be will be. Well see.

[Softcore PK]

its stupid easy.

More numbers = level faster = twink faster = win = no xp loss = no risk = easy camp hold = the same as calling a camp on blue

its just gonna be a question of who can gather the biggest zerg guild

It would still be the same without xp loss but at least guerilla tactics would be more viable

Not the same thing as holding a camp on blue. On blue, anyone who is capable of holding a camp and gets there first gets the camp. On red, the better pvp force gets the camp. Yes, this usually does mean bigger numbers will get the camp. So? This is an MMO, and there very much should be greater strength in numbers.

I don't understand your point anyway. If you lost the first time, what makes you think you stand a better chance naked?

No one's saying you have to forfeit every exp spot you come across, either. They can't be everywhere (despite what Holocaust may have told you :P)

The trend for proponents of the exp loss mechanic are not concerned at all about the population of the server or how dynamic the types of players who will play on it. They are too eager to admit that this will discourage pvp, and guise is as being a one time thing. I'll let you in on a secret though when someone knows they are going to get shit on they are going to try to evade pvp, to know that they would also lose exp is only going to give them more reason to evade pvp.

These proponents of exp loss have the distinct attitude of a griefer. It's evident to anyone who is looking that this is what is really being catered to. This mechanic of extra grief in a game where people still hate people they played on pvp servers with twelve years later for the grief they where able to cause without additional penalties such as exp loss should be enough proof but I guess we are all going to learn the hard what is already obvious to me.

Do you honestly think bind rushing would be good for the server? That population will increase because there are annoying people who would rather spend their time relentlessly attacking people they cannot defeat than advance their own character?

What's wrong with avoiding pvp when you can/want to? This is EverQuest, it's a sandbox pvp mmo. The point of the game is not to die (or kill) as many times as you can, unless you want it to be. There is no right or wrong way to play, and it is unfair of you to tell us that there is. You can bindrush all you want, so long as you have periods of exp grinding between your sessions. Or you can grind to max level and slowly delevel yourself to lowest level (5?) by being a nuisance.

And that's what this comes down to: being a nuisance. You think those of us in favor of this slight exp loss are griefers? Why, because we're going to make you waste slightly more of your time by forcing you to grind more? What does that make you bindrushers? We have to spend time, mana and hp killing you each time you come back, and it then takes us more time to level. You're not trying to gain anything by bind rushing, you are simply sore losers who want a small amount of petty revenge. And I call that griefing.

All that will be left is people like Softcore PK who im sure no matter their "im so red" talk will avoid PVP whenever possible... doesnt sound like a fun pvp server to me... You will be able to sort out endgame poopsocking better, sure... is it worth making a whole new server for that though?

More like Hardcore PK, yeah? :cool:

[Rykk]

exp loss only caters to griefers, bind rushing doesnt even work unless you're a monk with a close bind spot (ex. when a monk named knuckles was bugging me and a friend in highkeep cause he kept popping back up and we just had to keep draining mana into him, only thing that stopped him was the constant yellow tags he was receiving). If I have to keep killing the same scrub over and over every 10 mins cause he wants to come back then so be it. But losing exp cause some ass hole tracked me and killed me while i was afk to poop is lame as shit. There has to be another form of repercussions for dying in pvp.

[Bazia]

exp loss only caters to griefers, bind rushing doesnt even work

Riiiiiiiiiight, casters can bind ANYWHERE and grief the fuck out of you nude because you killed them and took their camp just out of spite to waste your time even when they know they are going to lose.

Also if you AFK "to poop" you deserve to die on a PvP server.

Penalty encourages meaningful PvP (i.e. something is on the line) so the competition is more intense and meaningful.

Not just "Oh you killed me, ok be back in 30 seconds from my bindpoint."

[georgie]

i think losing xp is pretty stupid with the xp rate. all the way to 50 your gonna have a caster nuke you once and die. unless they implement it so you can only get an xp loss every hour or something i don't see this shit going in good

[Rykk]

i think losing xp is pretty stupid with the xp rate. all the way to 50 your gonna have a caster nuke you once and die. unless they implement it so you can only get an xp loss every hour or something i don't see this shit going in good

that's cause you're correct, it won't go good. Exp loss will only serve to keep the server #'s thin. No casual will continue to play if every time they log on they can't find a group cause no ones playing because the 3 main guilds on the server run around raping your exp bar. I predict 100 people max playing after the first month with the current system and out of those 100 people 90 of them will all belong to those 3 big guilds. ( what i'm saying is that this server is already looking like a new vz/tz ) a bunch of ass holes wanting to relive their thundering faggotry days of past pvp emus

[gloinz]

ya'll are some real bluebies why are you even considering playing on red? go play wow where you die and run back to your corpse and have no penalty whatsoever. its boring. don't try and bluebify this red server

besides, the penalty of 1% is so minimal its hardly noticeable unless you figure out a way to die 100 times. on SZ where you bluebies clearly would have lasted 10 minutes once you got killed by someone 20 levels higher for the first time, the xp loss was way higher.

in closing...

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/5040/bluesbieseverywhere.jpg

[oldfish]

ya'll are some real bluebies why are you even considering playing on red? go play wow where you die and run back to your corpse and have no penalty whatsoever. its boring. don't try and bluebify this red server

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/5040/bluesbieseverywhere.jpg

Keep trolling Gloinz, well see how happy itll make you and how funny youll be with a low pop server...




More like Hardcore PK, yeah? :cool:

Right, remind me your name when the server launches so i can wipe the floor with your "hardcoreness", delevel you till youre out of range and take it out on you that you pushed for this bad system.

The thing is, if i thought we could find a 1000 regulars who would put up with this system, i wouldnt even be arguing against it (much anyway). Its cuz we need a healthy pop and this will not foster it.

Maybe im wrong though, maybe the Old RZers will come out of the woodwork and make it work (even then the extra PVE grind would be a bore).... but more likely this Haiku:

Ham de PVP champz!

Theres no people to pvp with

Fuck

[gloinz]

Keep trolling Gloinz, well see how happy itll make you and how funny youll be with a low pop server...



Right, remind me your name when the server launches so i can wipe the floor with your "hardcoreness", delevel you till youre out of range and take it out on you that you pushed for this bad system.

The thing is, if i thought we could find a 1000 regulars who would put up with this system, i wouldnt even be arguing against it (much anyway). Its cuz we need a healthy pop and this will not foster it.

I leave this discussion with a Haiku:

Ham de PVP champz!

Theres no people to pvp with

Fuck

have fun killing him (if hes even level) about 800 times to delevel him out of range. sounds very possible (not really)

btw your whole argument that ppl won't play with xp loss on pvp death can be flipped around. some ppl aren't playing bc there aren't enough penaltys on pvp death (ie no item loot). bluebify it some more and you'll have a bastard child of the current blue server rather than an actual red server

[Lovely]

What Gloinz said.

I'm pretty sure the server would lose a lot more players if it didn't have PVP xp loss then the contrary. Anyways is the PVP xp loss only 1%? Then we should be talking about raising it instead of removing it :D

[gloinz]

What Gloinz said.

I'm pretty sure the server would lose a lot more players if it didn't have PVP xp loss then the contrary. Anyways is the PVP xp loss only 1%? Then we should be talking about raising it instead of removing it :D

raise it this high

[oldfish]

have fun killing him (if hes even level) about 800 times to delevel him out of range. sounds very possible (not really)

btw your whole argument that ppl won't play with xp loss on pvp death can be flipped around. some ppl aren't playing bc there aren't enough penaltys on pvp death (ie no item loot). bluebify it some more and you'll have a bastard child of the current blue server rather than an actual red server

I only have to kill Softcore a hundred times to delevel him. Most likely ill make him log before that :) youre right.

Anyway... someone has to be right. Either its the people who predicted PVP wont happen unless you got a huge zerg train going because people are hiding in fear of xp loss... or you guys are right and... something else will happen.

Only a week till we find out. Im glad i bought Skyrim cuz its going to be a long week :)

[oldfish]

BTW youre rolling a wiz lovely? lol

Tell me how that xp loss works out for you on live bud, my main on RZ was a wiz

[Bazia]

oldfish
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT06r6cPPKOaqOpEMGcURsuZS6wSgEbD YAtt8Xml7-giINJJEQXUg

[oldfish]

Bazia

http://www.geekologie.com/2010/03/26/surprise-kitty.jpg

Where mah pvp go? WTF

Funny thing Bazia is im not pushing for no xp loss because ill quit, but because itll make other people quit. I couldnt care less if i thought we could get a healthy pop thatll deal with this.

[Lovely]

I'm gonna log on and do a /random 1 14

1 Bard
2 Cleric
3 Druid
4 Enchanter
5 Magician
6 Monk
7 Necromancer
8 Paladin
9 Ranger
10 Rogue
11 Shadow Knight
12 Shaman
13 Warrior
14 Wizard

But I'm known to be really lucky and almost always max out my rolls

[Softcore PK]

Right, remind me your name when the server launches so i can wipe the floor with your "hardcoreness", delevel you till youre out of range and take it out on you that you pushed for this bad system.

The thing is, if i thought we could find a 1000 regulars who would put up with this system, i wouldnt even be arguing against it (much anyway). Its cuz we need a healthy pop and this will not foster it.

Maybe im wrong though, maybe the Old RZers will come out of the woodwork and make it work (even then the extra PVE grind would be a bore).... but more likely this Haiku:

Ham de PVP champz!

Theres no people to pvp with

Fuck

Wowww calm down a bit! I'm not out to make any enemies here, and I'm sorry if I came off as a little too abrasive. All I was doing was expressing my opinion :S

There's no reason to single me out and attempt to delevel me, even though the system allows for it. Let's agree to disagree, and be friends! :)

[Bkab]

softcore pk is too nice. it makes me want to kill you even more. sorry pal i dont want to be ur friend.

[pickled_heretic]

item loot and exp loss are two completely incomparable things. they might be comparable if an item randomly poofed on your corpse and nobody got it. but that's not what happens.

[gloinz]

item loot and exp loss are two completely incomparable things. they might be comparable if an item randomly poofed on your corpse and nobody got it. but that's not what happens.

they both cause penalty when you die ... seems pretty comparable

[oldfish]

Wowww calm down a bit! I'm not out to make any enemies here, and I'm sorry if I came off as a little too abrasive. All I was doing was expressing my opinion :S

There's no reason to single me out and attempt to delevel me, even though the system allows for it. Let's agree to disagree, and be friends! :)

I just want to show you the logical consequence of what you are arguing for

[Rykk]

Though I was arguing previously for no exp loss I stand by that. But other people seem to think because people bitch for no exp loss that means we want no penalty at all...... This how ever is not the case because if you read the fucking forums you would know. People want a balance ; they don't mind exp loss as long as it isn't 1 hour of grinding gone in 2 seconds cause someone catches you with your pants down; and i know Rogean said something about 1/4 or 2/4 a bub or something, for a pvp kill which is some what "ok" but that is still significant for people *which I'm not going to play* who decide to play a hybrid or ^^^group with hybrids^^^...... something else could easily be implemented that would make pvp deaths *beyond just coin loot* a loss.. not just item loot *i hope* but maybe even minor death/rez effects for a bit ( seeings how people are going absolutely fucking crazy about bind campers)