Harm Touch Resisted.

[chalb]

ive noticed alot of mobs and players partial/fully resisting Harmtouch, and this is even yellows/evencons/dark blues, which never happened to me on live as i remember, not sure if its nerfd or needs tuning!

[Darwoth]

HT was unresistable, entire resistance system is broken atm.

[Lazortag]

I actually played an SK on Live and I really don't remember HT being unresistable. I seem to remember it resisting often on reds/yellows/evens and even occasionally getting partials. I could be totally wrong since I was a huge nub back then but I'm very skeptical of the claim that it should be unresistable, especially coming from Darwoth.


edit:

evidence: http://web.archive.org/web/20010715111255/http://eq.castersrealm.com/creationguides/skilldetails.asp?Id=53&Class=Shadowknight&Category=Combat

Description: This Shadowknight only skill enables the evil warrior to inflict a burst of damage. This is magic based however and can still be resisted. Damage increases with level.

OGRE SHADOWKNIGHT, By Thuarok (1/28/2001)

There is no actual skill in harmtouch, it just does your level x 10 +1 in damage if not resisted.

[Darwoth]

had a lev 40ish SK, never had an ht resist once. even partially. if it resists it was so rare to be inconsequential to the argument, necro lifetaps were equally unresistable. as was the druid swarm line.

all of these could get a "resist" as everything in the game had something like a 5% chance to resist, beyond that no.

[Zeelot]

HT is pretty resistible until later in velious when the discipline is changed to make HT disease based.

------------------------------
December 19, 2000 3:00 am
------------------------------

*Patch Day*

Today's patch primarily consists of tuning of Velious zones as well as
content and other additions. In addition, the following changes have
been implemented on the Live servers:

- High-end items that have a activatable (right-click) healing effect
have in several cases had their casting times increased.
- Factions for some of the higher end encounters in Velious have
received some adjustments. Basically, "bad acts" receive more weight
than "good acts". For instance, if "A" hates "B" and "B" hates "A",
killing "A" will hurt your faction with "A" more than it will help your
faction with "B".
- The stamina reduction with "Resurrection Effects" has been replaced
by a slight attack-speed debuff.
- The Ranger's Trueshot discipline now works correctly. It was
previously only working versus other player characters.
- The Shadow Knight's "Unholy Aura" discipline has received an
enhancement. When in use, harmtouch resistances will be checked versus
disease instead of magic. In addition, harmtouch will resist in the
same fashion as lifetap spells, meaning that unless the creature is
immune to disease, you should get full damage most of the time.
- The spell attached to the "Fiery Defender" can now be partially
resisted instead of being "all or nothing". The net result is that the
average damage will be higher.
- The Paladin "Holy Forge" discipline will now give paladins triple the
normal chance of scoring a critical hit. Each critical hit has a
percent chance to be scored as a critical blow.
- Added parameters to the /camp command (the command that will cause
you to camp out if you are already sitting). "/camp server" will take
you back to the server selection screen. "/camp desktop" will take you
out to the desktop following a successful camp. Despite popular
request, "/camp spawn" will not be implemented.
- Walruses now indeed sound like they should.
- Added the /chatfontsize [0 to 5] (default is 1) command. This command
will allow players to adjust the size of the font in the chat window.

[Lasher]

I thought HT was resistable but not likely. Im recalling this from foggy memory but didnt sk a HT disc in velious that made it less resitable compared to their normal HT?

[Aadill]

There was an SK disc that SPECIFICALLY changed HT to a disease based resistance with claims of making it virtually unresistable much like lifetaps.

EDIT: Damn you, Zeelot

[Lazortag]

Once again Darwoth is proven wrong, thanks Zeelot!

[Darwoth]

proven wrong my ass, a patchnote saying "lol we changed it to disease instead of magic" has nothing to do with how often it actually resisted, once again the swarm line is "magic" based as well, and it has been a staple unresistable spell since the game came out.

never had an ht resist in pvp (or pve) on my lowbie, even partially and i did not have one at 55+ or whenever it was that SKs got the boosted ht discipline.

[Darwoth]

matter of fact when i was deleveling my other SK to be a lev 6 newbiekiller i was HTing the queynos gate guards repeatedly as this is when HT reset every death.

was generally hitting them even though they are what? 40 levels higher?

[Lazortag]

HT was unresistable, ...

This is magic based however and can still be resisted.


... it just does your level x 10 +1 in damage if not resisted.

The Shadow Knight's "Unholy Aura" discipline has received an
enhancement. When in use, harmtouch resistances will be checked versus disease instead of magic. In addition, harmtouch will resist in the
same fashion as lifetap spells, meaning that unless the creature is
immune to disease, you should get full damage most of the time.

This part is great:

matter of fact when i was deleveling my other SK to be a lev 6 newbiekiller i was HTing the queynos gate guards repeatedly as this is when HT reset every death.

was generally hitting them even though they are what? 40 levels higher?

This is actually impossible - at level 6 any spell cast on a mob more than 6 levels higher than you would have been automatically resisted in classic.

[Lasher]

From memory i dont recall resisting HT in pvp but i do recall resisting HT from mobs. Is it possible ht was unresistable from a player to a player

[Darwoth]

This part is great:



This is actually impossible - at level 6 any spell cast on a mob more than 6 levels higher than you would have been automatically resisted in classic.

thats interesting given that i soloed hadden at level 19 before i got track.

[Darwoth]

if it resists it was so rare to be inconsequential to the argument

[Palemoon]

had a lev 40ish SK, never had an ht resist once. even partially. if it resists it was so rare to be inconsequential to the argument, necro lifetaps were equally unresistable. as was the druid swarm line.

all of these could get a "resist" as everything in the game had something like a 5% chance to resist, beyond that no.

lol, my main on RZ was a troll SK from beta until I moved to SZ.

HT could be resisted. Darwoth wrong for the 100th time.

[Darwoth]

who were you on rz and sz?

[Aadill]

No one cares.

If you are going to post a bug report, follow these guidelines: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5570

[Pudge]

played a SK on rallos. for mobs HT was resistible, but it didn't happen often. in pvp i can't remember ever getting resisted, but it probably was possible at some point

but pvp here on r99 beta, you get resisted by dark blues. or land 5 damage on them.

[Dfn]

Never saw or heard of ht resists in pvp in classic. In fact when SZ came out I remember a big thread on the ezboard about one of the neut druids in his40s/50s on the pvp leaderboard getting killed by a lowbie SK in his teens in SRo - harm touch on super low hp druid.

More propaganda by lazortag and co. - confirmed retards that never played classic.

[jilena]

I know from classic experience that mobs frequently resisted or partially resisted HT til it was changed. I do not know if this was the case with players.

[SoulLeech]

As I recall...

HT resist was non-existant versus players and possible, but almost unheard of versus mobs pre-50. By late Kunark, the PvE landscape had changed drastically hence the addition of Unholy Aura, lures for Wizards and such.

[jilena]

Do you guys feel that this is it's own issue? Or just directly related to how wack resists are for players at present? If player resists are all sorts of out of wack (i.e. root resisting 9 times out of 10 on naked MR) would the fact that HT works even most of the time imply that if the resists were fixed across the board that it would also fix HT?

That said, in the case of high ass MR should HT be resisted or partially resisted on players with 140ish MR? 100? 80? At any point?

[Harrison]

HT is resistable, but it is for all intents and purposes in classic not able to be because of the lack of getting 200+ resists easily. HT has a -200 check just like lifetaps do. It CAN be resisted, but the likelihood is negligible for players.

Kunark changes this, and as such, the discipline changes HTs check to disease to make it more able to land on high MR mobs that are commonplace in Kunark.

[mimixownzall]

HT should be resistible, otherwise you will see armies of SK's dominating raid content like they do on the current progression server.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=177025

[Lasher]

HT is resistable, but it is for all intents and purposes in classic not able to be because of the lack of getting 200+ resists easily. HT has a -200 check just like lifetaps do. It CAN be resisted, but the likelihood is negligible for players.

Kunark changes this, and as such, the discipline changes HTs check to disease to make it more able to land on high MR mobs that are commonplace in Kunark.

SK do not get their disc until velious

[Harrison]

Same idea, it's not going to matter for at least a year in any case.

[jilena]

I didn't think the -200 resist check type stuff was classic and even if it were I don't think it applied to HT until they made it have "lifetap-esque" qualities later. HT resisted/partial resisted pretty frequently on mobs in classic which is why they changed it as it was pretty shitty at the time having an ability on such a long delay failing.

[Zeelot]

HT was pretty much useless until the discipline. In PvP it landed most of the time, but was still resisted often when someone had high MR. So the current system of resists may be affecting HT in pvp on red99 -it should be landing a majority of the time against players who don't have buffed up MR.

This goes more to the general pvp resists issue on this server, rather than anything directly related to HT imo.

[Jerin]

yeah my 17 shadowknight was fighting a 22 shaman yesterday,

HT landed for 6dmg ...

I could be wrong however,
I remember HT being outright resisted only on mobs that conned red,
and as far as i remember against a player within 8+/- levels it hit for
full at all times

[SoulLeech]

HT should be resistible, otherwise you will see armies of SK's dominating raid content like they do on the current progression server.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=177025

Thanks for that.

It's hilarious to see that the official boards are EXACTLY the same as they were 10 years ago - a gaggle of illiterate of chicken littles pecking each others eyes out over trivial corner-case bullshit.

What we have here is 11 year old content from a 12 year old game that was utterly broken before the first expansion being abused in hilarious fashion by the 12-boxing ghost of Sam Deathwalker.

Short of a complete remake, you aren't going to "fix" EQ and I'm sure if anyone ever tries they'll have enough sense to address the pre-Velious HP limits directly.

[jilena]

My question is, do you guys feel this deserves it's own exploration, or should it be shelved until the resists are looked at and see if the overhaul resolves issues with HT?

[Nirgon]

When you *started playing* isn't classic. It may have been when the world was young and new to you.

Think about "what was is like in 99" not "what was classic" because, in your mind classic has a different meaning. Let's take a good hard look at that "99" on the sign at the door. Not "well I started playing in PoP and... " version of "classic".

[Pudge]

well right now it seems it's resisting as much as snare. if the resist changes apply to keep it resisting at the same level as roots and snares (whatever level that becomes) then yes, it needs to be tweaked separately - because it should be landing much more often than that.

...or simply unresistable in pvp

[Lazortag]

well right now it seems it's resisting as much as snare. if the resist changes apply to keep it resisting at the same level as roots and snares (whatever level that becomes) then yes, it needs to be tweaked separately - because it should be landing much more often than that.

...or simply unresistable in pvp

It wasn't unresistable in pvp. Maybe it should have some kind of resist mod, I dunno. It should definitely resist less than CC spells.

I can't think of any spells at the moment that were unresistable in pvp but resistable in pve, so I'm skeptical of the claim that HT would be one such spell.

[Rob]

This part is great:



This is actually impossible - at level 6 any spell cast on a mob more than 6 levels higher than you would have been automatically resisted in classic.

This is not true. I remember watching six level 20ish necros killing sand giants in oasis. (I also remember being very jealous.) Just like Wehrmacht you morons are probably remembering harm touch AFTER they got their disciplines. Just sayin.

HEY BROS I STARTED pLAYING LATE KUNARK BUT IM PRETTY SURE THIS RANDOM THING ISNT CLASSIC.

[Rallyd]

http://i.imgur.com/QamN4.jpg

Harm Touch IIRC is completely 100% unresistable in PVP AND PVE. This is clearly not classic.

[Kelsar]

Pretty sure HT could be resisted. I recall being resisted by red con mobs.

[Pudge]

from what i remember, harmtouch was rarely resisted by NPCs, but not impossible.

for PCs, i can't remember ever getting a resist. i don't think it was resistible pvp. there is already another thread about this in the bug forums i believe

[Lazortag]

Harm touch should be resistible in PvE, this was thoroughly proven in another thread and is just generally well known by anyone who played an SK on live.

It probably resists too much in pvp, but I don't think it's supposed to be unresistable. A decent fix would be to have it land for partial damage when resisted like a lot of nukes currently do (although based off of anecdotal evidence I would say it should resist even less than that)

[Kain]

I played up to 65 and Harmtouch was resisted maybe 3 times in my EQ life.

I pretty much expected it to go through 99% of the time on raid bosses.

I'm guessing an NPC just has much higher resists than a PC player in general.

[Kelsar]

in my EQ life.


This made me laugh out loud.

[jjgerman]

i didnt play a sk on live, but fought plenty of them, HT was rarely resisted, if ever .......within your level range.

[Liebestod]

i didnt play a sk on live, but fought plenty of them, HT was rarely resisted, if ever .......within your level range.

^^This. HT was never resisted on Rallos (4/4) until Sony messed with the resist mechanics after Luclin I beleive.

It was unresistable

[john_savage1982]

I've gotten a resist on a blue mob before in PvE. I almost expect HT to be fully resisted or mostly resisted on even yellow mobs. I don't count on HT to save me in any way.

[Crazerous]

HT was resistable however it should rarely be resisted even on players with 200MR....might aswell make it unresistable i dont think it should be resisted.

[Crazerous]

yea fix this for the SK's before the last patch :) oh yea and fix mage earth pets not casting root on players with sow or jboot effect..oh yea and guard assisting in pvp...after those 3 fixes we r readddyyy!!!!

[Pudge]

i forgot about the mage thing. and i hear lifetaps are hitting for partials

[Rallyd]

Bumping this, as of right now HT has been resisted nearly every single time in pvp, and about 60% in PVE, totally broken right now really needs to be unresistable in pvp at the very least.

[Aesop]

I thought HT was disease based?

[Uthgaard]

There was an AA in luclin that allowed HT to check disease instead of magic. HT isn't under any special resistability rules, despite the opposing camps who keep trying to claim always works/always doesn't. It has well documented resist checks from inception to modern day. Its chance to be resisted was always a thorn in the side of SKs, and that's why there's such a clearly documented progression of AAs that led to it being resisted less often.

[Pudge]

There was an AA in luclin that allowed HT to check disease instead of magic. HT isn't under any special resistability rules, despite the opposing camps who keep trying to claim always works/always doesn't. It has well documented resist checks from inception to modern day. Its chance to be resisted was always a thorn in the side of SKs, and that's why there's such a clearly documented progression of AAs that led to it being resisted less often.

Let me respond to this, and Bump, with information from a recent post by Skorge:



[Nerfs/buffs as of Tuesday, December 7, 1999...]

SHADOWKNIGHTS:
+ Spell changes (added lifetap)
+ Made Harm Touch less resistible
+ Added innate resistance to poison and disease
- DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
+ DoT changed positively to enhance group play
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+/- Feign Death Changes / Better for Low Level Character, Better for High Level once learning curve has passed
+ Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
+ Changes to Pet Appearances

---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
---------------------------------------------
see http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57656;
http://www.graffe.com/graffe1.0/ for source

And, to repeat once again, HT should not be getting resisted AT ALL in pvp.

[Uthgaard]

You've posted good evidence but you've drawn the wrong conclusion. Less resistible does not mean it can't be resisted. Aside from that, the actual resist checks are documented throughout all eras of eq, courtesy of verant devs putting virtually everything clientside. This is about the 6th or 7th time the topic has been answered.

Search the forums.

[Pudge]

vs NPCs yea it can be resisted, though not often. PvP though, it was never resisted.

i searched the forums, but cannot find the any documentation for PvP resist rates. only things on pvp resists that i find are comments about how it should be unresistable/virtually unresistable

[Uthgaard]

I see why no one else bothers to respond to these threads.


Q: Are there any rules on the Shadowknight's Harm Touch class defining feature, such as it having unresistable attributes equal to that of a Lifetap?
A: Harm Touch is an instant direct damage spell. It's relatively resistable I'm sorry to say. It's magic based so anything with a good magic resistance will resist it. It's only really special quality is that it casts instantly and takes no mana. (http://web.archive.org/web/20001018103653/http://eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Shadowknight)

[Pudge]

I see why no one else bothers to respond to these threads.

that's still all PvE talk.. anyone who played a pvp server can tell you HT did not get resists in pvp. or if they ever did, it was extremely rare. the above posts and other threads agree..

[Uthgaard]

Then find some evidence to support you and post it, because alternate pvp data for spells wasn't added until well beyond the scope of p99.

[Greedy]

played a sk on live. ht was never resisted in pvp. very rarely vs red mobs in pve. bout the same chance as a lifetap. as for the change to disease resist on a disc, it was put in to allow sks to ht raid mobs that were extremely magic resistant. i remember it was a unnecessary change and there was no useful purpose to it other then to increase HTs damage.

[Peppers]

You've posted good evidence but you've drawn the wrong conclusion. Less resistible does not mean it can't be resisted. Aside from that, the actual resist checks are documented throughout all eras of eq, courtesy of verant devs putting virtually everything clientside. This is about the 6th or 7th time the topic has been answered.

Search the forums.

As nice as i can say this to an ignorant developer:

HT was RARELY resisted in pve during classic through Velious. It took a DEEP red to resist it.

I never resisted HT in my pvp career, and i don't know of anyone who ever resisted it either. If it ever got resisted, it was rare or not at all, which is what i suspect.

It was rationalized that since HT was a signature feature of the class and considered a skill or discipline like stone stance that it wouldn't make sense to developers or players if a discipline could be resisted. Next thing you are gonna say is that innerflame could be resisted in pvp.

One thing is for sure, HT is not working properly on RED99.

If you were a pvper, you would know this. Since you are not , i humbly ask that you defer to those who know more than you.

[Uthgaard]

A) No evidence to support you, mountains of evidence to support me
B) Faulty rationale. It wasn't a disc, it was a spell.
Corollary to B) Discs were handled by the spell system anyway, not that I'd expect you to know that
C) The resist check is documented and this thread has been done to death
D) HT is working as intended, and how you feel about it has no influence in the matter
E) Have a nice day

[Peppers]

As nicely as I can say this to an ignorant player:

A) No evidence to support you, mountains of evidence to support me
B) Faulty rationale. It wasn't a disc, it was a spell.
Corollary to B) Discs were handled by the spell system anyway, not that I'd expect you to know that
C) The resist check is documented and this thread has been done to death
D) HT is working as intended, and how you feel about it has no influence in the matter
E) Have a nice day

Thanks for reply. You have the best ball on the playground. That doesn't mean you can play worth a lick. Would some of you waiting to get on the court tell this kid other than the 50 who already have, that is how it was played? Wait, no nevermind, I'll try myself again. Uthgaard...bro, i've dunked on more people than maybe anyone here, i've played longer than probably everyone. If I say that's how it was, then that's how it was. you suck, i rule. I don't need to know how to program eq or be an internet archivist detective to know HT was rarely if ever resisted in pvp on my home server or zek later, or other emus for that matter. You're trying to come on the court and change the rules while everyone is telling you we already got rules, and they haven't changed in almost 12 years. Sit down son, you'll get your turn. And if no one will play with you when you are up, i will. I'll even quit the team i'm on cause we'll surely still be playing. It's make it, take it.

[Chett]

Resist System is Crap.

Made an SK. First HT got resisted at lvl 5 against a blue Con Mob...

Now at lvl 25 i used my HT around 20 times. 7 or 8 resists out of 20. Only two were yellow and a redcon Mob, all other are even con and blue con resists. C'mon, thats BS. Last 3 HT's resisted in a row, even con, even con, yellow...pffff

Confirmed, Uthgaard never played live. Working as intended. Sure, sure...

[Chett]

I beg the Staff to have a look into HT.

As i mentioned in a other thread my HT gets resisted simply to much. From my last 4 HT's one went thru. (all blue mobs)

Blue mobs or even con resist > 50% of the time, while back in the days even redcons had to eat it. Right now my HT got prolly resisted around 15 times out of 35. Only one time i fired it on a red mob.

Right now i feel like the "special ability" of my Character is cracked.

[Lazortag]

I played an SK on Live and I remember HT getting resisted fairly often, but I could be wrong. Do you have any evidence?

[Chett]

No offense, Lazor, but i have no clue what u are talking bout. My Main was a SK from 99 to 2002. I already got more resisted HT's at lvl 36 then in 2,5 years playing EQ on live. I cant even remember ever getting resisted against blue con mobs there. But thats a point where i could be wrong.

Evidence, yeah, well....
Gona hop in my time travel machine, fire out 100 HT's, so u can proof the Numbers.

[KovenantGothi]

Ht does get resisted an awful lot. I had it resisted multiple times on blue con mobs. This was never the case. Red con mobs would be understandable , but blue cons was nearly never a resist...

[Lazortag]

Evidence, yeah, well....
Gona hop in my time travel machine, fire out 100 HT's, so u can proof the Numbers.

There are lots of ways to find evidence of how things were 12 years ago. Just use old Everlore or Castersrealm archives, for example. Ever heard of the wayback machine?

[Grozmok]

I agree, I think it's pretty fucked. It seems pretty wet noodle, unlike my 55 SK on live I played way back.

[loserofgame]

I vaguely remember there being a patch somewhere along the line where HT was changed to be on lifetap resist(-200) table, because there were many issues with HT resisting.

I can't remember when that patch was put in, though...and I could be mistaken. But perhaps the patch notes would be the first place to look.

[Grozmok]

I guess you could search here:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

[loserofgame]

I guess you could search here:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

Yeah. Found them:

------------------------------
December 19, 2000 3:00 am
------------------------------

*Patch Day*

- The Shadow Knight's "Unholy Aura" discipline has received an
enhancement. When in use, harmtouch resistances will be checked versus
disease instead of magic. In addition, harmtouch will resist in the
same fashion as lifetap spells, meaning that unless the creature is
immune to disease, you should get full damage most of the time.


(This was the first one, and could be construed as DISC-specific, but, followed by)

------------------------------
January 9, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

***Patch Day***

- The "Unholy Aura" Discipline now gives a 50% bonus to Harmtouch
(compared with the previous 25%) and causes it to save versus disease,
which should result in even fewer resists in most high-level
encounters.

*Spells*

- "Harmtouch" is now resisted as if it were a "Lifetap" spell, meaning
that it is all-or-nothing, and nearly unresistable with exception to
encounters that are immune to magic or out of the acceptable level
range. In addition, maximum damage for Harmtouch has been increased
starting at 40th level.


There you have it. HT should be on Lifetap-style resist and should be near-unresistable in standard encounters.

Edit: Note that the HT change is a Velious-era change. It is feasible that it will not be changed until Velious is released on p99.

Edit2: Anyone else notice that these two patch notes say almost the exact same thing? Redundancy, anyone?

[Lazortag]

Actually that's a Luclin-era change since Luclin was released on december 4th.

[Grozmok]

^

That was going to be my next question.

It might not be "classic" but as an SK lover it would be a nice welcome change.

When was the last time you saw a lay-on-Hands get resisted by a player?

:D

[loserofgame]

Actually that's a Luclin-era change since Luclin was released on december 4th.

Wrong year.

Dec 4 2001 is when Luclin is released. These patch notes are from Dec 2000, and Jan 2001.

[Lazortag]

Wrong year.

Dec 4 2001 is when Luclin is released. These patch notes are from Dec 2000, and Jan 2001.

Oh wow, I seriously misread that. You're right, sorry.

[loserofgame]

Oh wow, I seriously misread that. You're right, sorry.

np

we'll just say your brother read it for you.

[Avon Barksdale]

^ looool

[Grozmok]

These patch notes are from Dec 2000, and Jan 2001.

So then, in the timeline when would we expect to see these changes to p99?

:D

[Szeth]

in 2 years when velious gets released.

[Grozmok]

omg i cant wait

[heartbrand]

This is one of those things where do we gimp a classes main ability because verant had their head up their own ass, in order to stay loyal to te timeline, or, do we fix it now to make the class function better? I think the latter

[Grozmok]

+1

I need to post that screenshot of me HT a snake for 5 damage. It's glorious.

[jjgerman]

Harm touch is routinely resisted by blues, yellows, pretty much everything.

Resist check is way off

[jjgerman]

x

blue mobs in unrest resisting harm touch easily still.

should be 99% un resistible n pvp also

everyone knows this, no need for history /logs

[Nirgon]

Here's the patch change that makes it as you remember it sir:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-1.html

- "Harmtouch" is now resisted as if it were a "Lifetap" spell, meaning
that it is all-or-nothing, and nearly unresistable with exception to
encounters that are immune to magic or out of the acceptable level
range. In addition, maximum damage for Harmtouch has been increased
starting at 40th level.


Sucks and I'm sorry : /. I had 2 SKs during Vanilla / Kunark and it would get resisted..

I think its safe to wrap this baby up till Velious.


This also goes in during Velious though:


--- Due to the recent improvements to "Harmtouch", it is doing much
more damage than it would before and unbalances PvP. As such it will
now do less damage in PvP (68% of PvE, down from 80%). In addition,
Shadowknights on the PvP servers were routinely killing themselves via
non-XP losing means and attacking other players with Harmtouch
immediately upon respawn. In order to address this situation, Harmtouch
is no longer automatically "recharged" by death on the PvP Servers.

[jjgerman]

it would get resisted VERY rarely even before that patch

not like here obviously, every other time u use it, gets resisted

[Nirgon]

Well if you're complaining about a full resist, OK.

Is harm touch an all of nothing spell? This I do not remember but may be the issue.

It worked pretty well pre-velious I think like you said, you'd hafta test it and post logs. I remember getting burned hard by SKs spamming egg shaped pumice->life leech->HT.

I do remember the 40+ damage change... which actually might have to be removed from here AND blue until Velious if it isn't doing 10 x level.

[Dullah]

HT still getting resisted constantly in pve and pvp. Should not be like that, especially in pvp.

Resist Adjust: -200
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=88

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=88&setcookie=1

[Malevz]

Never had it land on a boss ever, it's basically a taunt spell for bosses. Lifetaps are also resisted on a bosses, and I don't remember that on live.

[Dullah]

I believe really high level bosses had a chance of resisting HT and taps, especially if you weren't 60. Then they added HT discipline which made your HT a sure thing for PVE, but was never necessary for HT in pvp.

[Rettii]

I believe really high level bosses had a chance of resisting HT and taps, especially if you weren't 60. Then they added HT discipline which made your HT a sure thing for PVE, but was never necessary for HT in pvp.

evidence?

[Nirgon]

This was resisted by mobs and players in classic and Kunark that had high magic resist. It certainly wasn't in line with life taps either.

[Dacuk]

bump - is the data posted above enough to get some dev input here? My HT was partialed for half damage tonight - I haven't seen that in a while, but just got active again recently so not sure if this has been ongoing.

[Wrench]

yup, highly doubt there's -200 resist check for HT here

had this fully resisted by db's with only avg mr in pve

[Nirgon]

Its supposed to be resisted!

[Silikten]

Sadly, HT classic is very resistable :(. Unholy Aura makes it a DR check giving it a less resistable (nearly unresistable) chance to land.

[Wrench]

Sadly, HT classic is very resistable :(. Unholy Aura makes it a DR check giving it a less resistable (nearly unresistable) chance to land.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030110011939/http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=88

show me the patch notes where they added in this -200 to MR check, this snapshot is only 2003

unholy aura was for use on MR heavy mobs, not for DB xp grinding mobs

[Nirgon]

I have no idea where the hell you people are remembering harm touch during classic-velious being as hard to resist as a life tap. I don't, I really don't.

[heartbrand]

HT sucked in classic. Luckily it does approx a million damage on live now.

[Mingo]

Retard
Acting
Like
Loser
Youngster
Dipshit



---

Of course HT is resistable PVE and PVP. Why else would the discipline in Velious that makes it 'less resistable' matter? Or the AA that makes it 'irresistable' matter.

Common. Sense. Rallyd.

[Syft]

^^This. HT was never resisted on Rallos (4/4) until Sony messed with the resist mechanics after Luclin I beleive.

It was unresistable

BULLSHIT!!

Harmtouch was often resisted and partial'd especially during Kunark era, mostly by high MR classes like enchanters! My enchanter FULLY resisted 4 out of 5 Harmtouches with only 140 MR! Here it actually LANDS WAYYYY better than it should!

This is why they added Unholy Aura in Vellious! that changed HT to disease based and every SK used it to HT in PvP!

Here's a excerpt from shadowknights den on the subject

"At level 55, you get your first Discipline that affects Harm Touch called Unholy Aura (Velious required). To use it you must have Harm Touch available, and this will use your Harm Touch timer. So this replaces your Harm Touch. To use this discipline, type "/disc unholy" and you will use your HT. This does two things, increases damage of Harm Touch by 50% and changes resistance to be disease based, making it virtually unresistable. When you reach 55, you should remove any hot key that you have for Harm Touch and replace it with a macro button which will do this instead. The only reason you would use regular HT is if you are fighting a foe that is extremely disease resistant."

And a link to the http://www.albrandes.com/skden/articles/HT.asp

Some of you cat's clearly did little to zero pvp during classic era

[Legend]

Bring a lvl 50+ anything to Kurns. Go in Basement. Get fully harm touched by greens 10/10 times. Put in over 10 hrs here camping.

Log on your Anything shadow knight. Harm touch a blue con mob at 10%, have it be resisted 100% 4/5 times. Or once in a while you may partially harm touch a mob for 75 or 100.

Shits broke.

Lay on hands should have a 70% chance to be resisted.

[Nirgon]

Spells land way too much here anyways imo. This never had a -400 resist check or anything close in classic. It got resisted. I had my share of many SKs that I played.

[Dullah]

HT isn't a normal spell. Always had a negative resist check, and it did not get resisted. Its listed at -200 check, and the discipline was for boosting damage or fighting high level mobs (65+) that would often resist HT.

[Syft]

HT isn't a normal spell. Always had a negative resist check, and it did not get resisted. Its listed at -200 check, and the discipline was for boosting damage or fighting high level mobs (65+) that would often resist HT.

Not during classic, classic/kunark era it was Heavily resisted what your seeing on Zam's is what they did to HT YEARS LATER.

That's why they added Unholy Aura discipline during vellious, like previously stated it change HT resist to disease and made it do 50% more dmg.

Later Unholy Aura was changed and resist mod put on regular HT skill.

Guess you didn't pvp at all during classic era, shocker!

[NotKringe]

Ender is right on this one. HT was rarely resisted on Live in its early days.. It being resisted here as much as I hear should be looked at.

[Nirgon]

Had it resisted against yellow con frogs and shit plenty.
Had named frogs in guk partial or resist it on live during this era.

Players even to red would resist it from newbie lvl 5 PKs at times too.

It never takes a life tap resist check, unholy aura is as close as you get.

[Silikten]

Had it resisted against yellow con frogs and shit plenty.
Had named frogs in guk partial or resist it on live during this era.

Players even to red would resist it from newbie lvl 5 PKs at times too.

It never takes a life tap resist check, unholy aura is as close as you get.

[Gump]

Had it resisted against yellow con frogs and shit plenty.
Had named frogs in guk partial or resist it on live during this era.

Players even to red would resist it from newbie lvl 5 PKs at times too.

It never takes a life tap resist check, unholy aura is as close as you get.

Never had my HT resisted by players or yellow con mobs on live

[Wrench]

Had it resisted against yellow con frogs and shit plenty.
Had named frogs in guk partial or resist it on live during this era.

Players even to red would resist it from newbie lvl 5 PKs at times too.

It never takes a life tap resist check, unholy aura is as close as you get.

did you ever have it fully resisted by a db trash mob? cause that shit happens here

maybe not 4/5 like legend said, but way more common than it should be

[Nirgon]

About as likely as something like a druid lightning DD.

I mean.. on live I had npcs resist root if they were something like an in town guard or something innately magic resist. All blue cons are not created equal :).

But absolutely I'd go to PK a geared player and have HT partials/resists as commonly as casting a magic nuke on them from another class.

We leveled our SK twinks on Guard Reskin/Tolus and Travis Two Tone. They'd resist the occasional HT (not commonly) but it was usually saved for PvP.

"Your target resisted the harm touch spell" is absolutely burned into my memory fighting a yellow con skeleton in Nek on a PK twink (FS 2hander troll + darkwood cam2 bow)

[Wrench]

ill admit my issues with HT on this server might be more related to f'd up resist checks in general than the actual HT ability

[Nirgon]

Does it ever partial here? Or is it just all or nothing? Never really cared to notice but it should be resistable, and not lure based like I think some people want. That just ain't true.

[Dacuk]

Definitely partials. Landed one for 440 when I normally land for 610 at lvl 57.

[Dullah]

Not only does it partial regularly and get resisted outright constantly, your cooldown on all abilities (backstab, bash, flying kick, HT, LoH) is lost due to any lag though players were in range. No swing, no miss, no out or range message or anything. Just... nothing.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95409

[big mouth chew]

has like 0 range z axis
had it say too far away between melee swings

aint even mad tho

and yes it partials

[failed2k]

My name was Wetall Boneshatter on Live, I played live day 1 as a shadowknight SK all the way thorugh till planes of power. I was one of the oldest and longest tenured high level sk's on rallos zek, something most of these people chiming in on this were not.

I'm completely baffled by people saying "HT was resistable live in pvp!"

In well over 6 years of playing I HAD NEVER EVER had a Harm Touched resisted by a player, I swear to this literally on my life, not even partially. I can send you folders of of killshots to this day, and if my HT is on the text box, I assure you it is doing full damage.

In pve? I had my harm touch occasionally resisted by things that conned very very red, and even more rarely i'd catch a partial resist from other things that conned red.

The disease resist check thing was implented STRICTLY for PVE because in the luclin/pop era they added a pile of MAGIC IMMUNE boss mobs.

If you'd like a folder of killshots I can provide you with at least a few dozen pictures of WELL geared players eating full harm touches.

In short, In 6 years on live as a SK I NEVER ONCE HAD A HARM TOUCH EVEN PARTIALLY RESISTED IN PVP, IN PVE ONLY IN RARE INSTANCES.

No bull, and everyone has some "I once resisted a harm touch! story, I assure you that is the loch ness monster story, everyone has one, none are true. I can provide screenshots of harmtouchs landing on live, but can ANY of the people claiming HT was resistable provide screenshots of them resisting harmtouches?

[Legend]

Just spent almost a week in West Karana on the Ogre camp.

Well over 20 hours played in this one spot.

4 Ogre Shadow Knights.

Never once resisted a Harm Touch.

I don't think its working as intended in PvP.

[Nirgon]

Wetall you give me that folder of harm touch kills and I will gladly admit I was wrong.

I distinctly remember a statement being made like "SKs are dangerous now, even Wetall" (no offense, none should be taken) when word got around about unholy aura HT. Within a few hours of that happening, you bagged Koss's fungi tunic.

I played a few lvl 5 SK pks in my time and saw HTs get resisted here and there. It wasn't easy to resist, but it happened. Unholy aura basically ensured a full hit every time.

[Retti_]

Plz post screenshots

Good point about NPC harmtouches; I dont think ive ever seen those resisted when level appropriate (npc to pc)

[failed2k]

I'll dig through the old hard-drive tonight and see if I can find my old folder of pre-velious kills. I have a trove of them somewhere in there, I moved my stuff from during the AD wars and time in LV onto my current stuff, so I have literally about 400 killshots from velious/luclin era, just gotta get into the way back machine for the older stuff.

Not sure how to post em, Maybe a dropbox or something? Never used it before.

Also, no offense taken Nirg, as a Dark Elf people didn't take me seriously till I beat a few people at the SK botb at level 56 wit ha mace of shadowed Souls, then people actually took me seriously, was a big factor into me getting into Sabbot I heard actually.

[failed2k]

Also no argument about it becoming fully unresistable when unholy aura hit, I never had it resisted before(granted old UI didnt display damage numbers) but once unholy aura hit, I never even had red con raid bosses ever resist it, it buried the possible resist chance into a 80 foot grave.

[Nirgon]

There's postimage.org or you can zip em and I'll give you my email.

I remember ole Scumbog telling me about how his harm touch would one shot lvl 1 dark elf casters at lvl 5 as an SK unless they happened to resist cuz some enchanter buffed them.

I also personally played 2 SK twinks and a handful of lvl 5 ones for the lulz and had the froglok guards/fisherman occasionally resist/partial it and even players too.

My wizard nukes fighting mobs in the commonlands leveling up as well as root were resisted/partialed much more on live too.

It's not as resistable as say a stun, but about the same odds of getting a full resist on the lvl 39 wizard nuke. It mighta even had a -10/20 resist modifier, but it wasn't by any means on a life tap resist check like some people are claiming.

[Dullah]

Had an sk on live, never saw an HT resisted.

Callin' bullshit.

[SamwiseRed]

Had an sk on live, never saw an HT resisted.

Callin' bullshit.

counter calling bullshit

[Nirgon]

Dullah and Nirgon vs PoP players/players trying to secure an advantage for their existing or future SKs

[Legend]

Dullah and Nirgon vs PoP players/players trying to secure an advantage for their existing or future SKs

Could the Great Nirgon Forum Quester be wrong? A clock with 2 hands is right twice a day.

[failed2k]

Unfortunately, I am a big fat phoney and it appears the 15 year old(at least) hard drive could not handle the strains of the modern era, and when I hooked it up to my current rig, it was totally empty.

I do still have a huge pile of screenshots, but it it is all from Velious/Luclin(mostly velious) era. In that folder I have well over 50(probably closer to 150 but I dont feel like counting) HT killshots, but the majority of them are with Unholy Aura.

For interested parties, I can still send the folder of those screenshots.

But for kunark era, you're just going to have to weigh the word of a lifer SK, and VERY active pvp'er vs that of the people who remember it differently. I might try to bring a few of my old buddies(sk or otherwise) here to try and add some weight to the issue tho.

Nirgon do you play here still? Or just forumlurk? haven't seen you since like Lucid Vision Days I think.

[Retti_]

Velious is pre aa so should still hold up right