Resist Feedback post 11/6/2011

[Null]

Greetings Dregs,

New changes means new feedback thread. Remember to provide relevant resistance stats when providing feedback, and also if possible provide a desired change if applicable (something like partials should do 10% less damage @ 150FR or resist rates for snare and root should be 10% higher at 100MR).

Thanks in advance for being civil :P

[Naez 4.20]

The only data I am going off is (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53742). Partials seem okay for that level of fire resist, but I would except to see # of full resists with a 40 casts at 124FR.

No full resists at all ruins my immersion, and is why we need God in schools.

[Smedy]

Im suggesting at 100+ or higher resist start by giving 2% chance to full resist, then increase with very small amount like 2% per 50 points so 200 = 6% 300 10% 400 14% 500 18% rendering casters useful yet a slight chance of getting the red resist every now and then. (this is only considering pure nukes nothing else)

I'm also suggesting a slight increase on the root resist, at 140 it feels like it lands about 1/4 (75% resist) i would like to see at 140 mr around 83% resist, and at 200 around 88% resist, and at 500 around 94% resist.

Praise the dregs.

[Naez 4.20]

Not a bad idea there Smedy, though I would say the % should be a tad higher after 100+, and an even bigger curve at 200+. MR based CC spells should be its own category with that big curve starting at 100+.


anyone who sees a problem with those resists fits into the category of dumbass that did not play classic or dumbass that wants to run around in a group of bard supported shadowknights and be immune to any small group resistance.

Yes, if you are in a group with a bard twisting resist songs, plus fully geared, plus fully normal resist buffed, plus potions and everything else, you should become pretty much invincible to casters unless you got tash+malo+scent on you to counteract it. This is common sense, and how boys become men about it.

[Tamiah2011]

Resist seem to be working much better, will keep you informed.Thanks null

[Crenshinabon]

Yes, if you are in a group with a bard twisting resist songs, plus fully geared, plus fully normal resist buffed, plus potions and everything else, you should become pretty much invincible to casters unless you got tash+malo+scent on you to counteract it. This is common sense, and how boys become men about it.

How the hell is that fair at all? This guy is trollin.

[Naez 4.20]

People who don't prepare at all should be on an even playing field as those who microcrunch all aspects of the game. Let's do away with resists at all and give everyone the same chances.

Genius approach.

[Darwoth2]

Yes, if you are in a group with a bard twisting resist songs, plus fully geared, plus fully normal resist buffed, plus potions and everything else, you should become pretty much invincible to casters unless you got tash+malo+scent on you to counteract it. This is common sense, and how boys become men about it.

right, because clearly in my other thread i am speaking of those with every possible resistance buff in the game vs the typical setup with shit geared melee and a bard. or perhaps you are just sensationalizing like a dumbass.

way to whore the meldrama drama queen.

[Naez 4.20]

You can argue your intent all day, it doesn't change the fact you made it seem like having a bard in your group is an unjust handicap that should have no effect on gameplay, and that anyone who suggests such "fits into the category of dumbass".

Having a bard in your group is a viable strategy that has been used for decades to become virtually immune to spells.

[mimixownzall]

Im suggesting at 100+ or higher resist start by giving 2% chance to full resist, then increase with very small amount like 2% per 50 points so 200 = 6% 300 10% 400 14% 500 18% rendering casters useful yet a slight chance of getting the red resist every now and then. (this is only considering pure nukes nothing else)

I'm also suggesting a slight increase on the root resist, at 140 it feels like it lands about 1/4 (75% resist) i would like to see at 140 mr around 83% resist, and at 200 around 88% resist, and at 500 around 94% resist.

Praise the dregs.

Just go classic. Root and snare are way too game changing to make it viable with any decent amount of MR.

The one good thing this does is force melees to choose whether they want to get nuked hard or make sure they have enough MR to ensure they have a good chance of resisting snare.

[Darwoth2]

perhaps to those lacking basic comprehension, to the rest of the universe it was taken as intended which is a bard = immunity the way it has been until this point the duration of beta.

[Naez 4.20]

And you clearly have a problem with that. I quoted that specific topic to point out why no one should listen to you and backed it up with cold hard facts of life.

[mimixownzall]

Oh, have the bard resists been fixed? That was my main concern.

[Darwoth2]

And you clearly have a problem with that. I quoted that specific topic to point out why no one should listen to you and backed it up with cold hard facts of life.


your right, i do have a problem with a bard and low/no resist gear melees being immunte to all forms of damage but for other melees, since you know that would be under 150 or so resistance.

if you think 150 resistance should be spell immunity then your just stupid and not worth responding to.

[gdg]

Did about 8 rounds of organized group PvP tonight to test resists/pvp system.. here is my personal assessment.


1) bard was banned from group pvp, Selos and general bard power was the #1 factor to winning.

2) trying to melee anyone with z-axis in play was nearly impossible

3) DD's hit way too much and way to often, I run 142 MR, 80 FR, 60 CR, everything DD wise was hitting for full damage regardless of resist type

4) snare landed 1 out of 10 on average ... with 142 MR

5) root seemed to land more often, 4 out of 10 or more

6) monks are nearly impossible to hit, miss rate was over 50%

7) warrior crit goes off once in a blue moon



End result, with current system, do yourself a favor and roll a caster or bard

[Darwoth2]

3) DD's hit way too much and way to often, I run 142 MR, 80 FR, 60 CR, everything DD wise was hitting for full damage regardless of resist type




lol, perhaps you might try putting on some gear before complaining.

[gdg]

lol, perhaps you might try putting on some gear before complaining.

But you see I have resists ranging from 142 to 80 and so on... still regardless of resist type DD's seem to hit for full each time.

What's the point of gear exactly?

[Null]

But you see I have resists ranging from 142 to 80 and so on... still regardless of resist type DD's seem to hit for full each time.

What's the point of gear exactly?

142 MR would produce only a 10% chance of getting hit for full, about 40% of them would hit for 65-85% and 50% would hit for 25-35%.

80 CR would have the 10% chance to hit for full, about 58 would hit for 95-100% and 32% would hit for 45-55%

These change a bit depending on who is casting the spell and what spell is being cast but the above will be close enough to determine if gear is worth while.

[Crazerous]

yea when you get 120+ in FR and CR is when you should be shielding off some of the damage from spells...thinking your at 80FR or 65CR or w.e he said and u are going to get protected from spells is just stupid....however spells shouldnt be hitting so hard and max damage so frequently that when you are at 120 R and maybe 150+ that people just rather max other stats because its not migrating enough dmg to even worry about resists...however from nulls calculations he seems to be spot on from the calculations. again i havent tested the system but from what he seems to be aiming for is pretty dam good.I think maybe tho instead of darwoths nuke hitting for 335 when that person had 160+ FR it should be hitting for 305 instead on avg that seems perfect(little less dmg but not much)...and yea root/ snare should be almost never landing when people have that high MR....root and snare is way to game changing. i think when you got over 100MR snare or root shouldnt land more then 1-2 times out of 10 casts. and when you hit your 150 MR , should be like a 3% chance of either one of those landing but when it does land it should land for full duration or w.e. however chanters should get a mez that sticks well for pvp. . . . thoughts?

[Crazerous]

also i think with spells doing that much damage. you should add in like smedy said when you get 100+ in that resist a 6% chance at full resists and 125 10% chance and when u get 150+ should stay at around 14%........even at 14% and your a geared out melee with 150+ in that resist chances are you wont get a full resist during that whole fight....ull probably see 1 full resist every 2 fights....3% chance on full resist and spells hitting almost full damage makes gear sort of pointless... i know we want casters to still be worthwhile when people gear out i agree with that. however you have to make people who gear up get rewarded...15% chance on full resist when u got 150+ in that resist is still better than classic i guarentee....and 335 out of a 435 nuke is too much...make it 305/435 that seems perfect... remember 150R is alot for classic.

[Darwoth2]

if some kind of full resist chance is put in it should be something simple and fair such as every 20 resistance = 1% capping at 10% with 200 resistance.

[Crazerous]

15% seems a bit more fair....and you know thats A LOT lower than classic...less than these numbers doesnt seem fair to melees who put time and effort in gearing up. jmho. :) server is looking a so much better. Im sure we are going to have a huge launch and null is dedicated he is going to make it very enjoyable! jus make snares/roots 3% but full duration when 150+ MR! :) see yall on the 18th! :) o ya an fix dots only doing 60% on moving targets needs to be higher, like 80% i think. :) we r close!!

[Darwoth2]

15% seems a bit more fair

not really when at 140 as per nulls numbers you already have a 50% chance to only do 25% - 35% damage, dont think we need an extra 15% on top of that to simply recreate the previous problem where 60% of your casts did nothing.

its fine how it is to be honest and is near identical to the damage numbers of classic, once folks have resistance gear this will become obvious to all but the most hopeless of retards.

[Darwoth2]

and no, it isnt lower than classic. it is 3x higher than classic was at any level of resist.

[Crazerous]

on classic you know dam well if some1 had 200FR atleast half your nukes are getting full resisted lol...idc i just think if some1 gets that much gear your nukes should be averaging 305 instead of 335. and atleast 10-15% chance of full on resist....not everybody is going to be running around with that much resist.. but ya im OK with how nulls numbers are now. i just disagree on roots and snares landing frequently on 150+ MR.. i think when you hit that much you should be almost immune to it (3% land but lasts ufll duration) if not ur gona have people spamming snare/root :/

[Crazerous]

and no, it isnt lower than classic. it is 3x higher than classic was at any level of resist.

are you kidding me if some1 had 200FR atleast half of your nukes are getting FULL RESISTED, not 50% or 25%. anyways its close i just dont want resists to make gear not that important, that to me would make the game way less fun.. and your a fucking druid if u want your nukes to be near unresistable but little less damage roll a necro like me haha..anyways good night

[Darwoth2]

are you kidding me if some1 had 200FR atleast half of your nukes are getting FULL RESISTED, not 50% or 25%. anyways its close i just dont want resists to make gear not that important, that to me would make the game way less fun.. and your a fucking druid if u want your nukes to be near unresistable but little less damage roll a necro like me haha..anyways good night

i had 208 fr, i resisted rain spells, dual effect dd spells and the like.

i resisted single effect nukes 5% of the time at 208, just like at 25 because that is what the resistance rate was on those spells.

[Toomuch]

My feedback is that there has GOT to be some sort of full resist system for DD's. Recent changes made casters very very powerful with their damage, as anyone that's tested it out has seen. It's going to take a looong time before people have the resist gear that they are testing/playing with right now, and spells are hitting for a lot of damage as is... so basically at the start of the server, and until people are completely decked out AND have bard resists in their group, they are F'd if they run into a wizard that has mana.

I think, at the minimum, if the rest of the recent spell damage changes stay the same, a 1% chance to fully resist a nuke for every 15 of a resist, is more than fair, and is easily lower than it was on classic (as I remember it). This would give someone with 150FR (which is actually pretty damn high, lets not lie to ourselves) a 10% chance to outright resist a fire based DD, 300 FR a 20% chance, and it can cap there at 20% (or should it?). Leave all other recent caster DD changes as is for now, add this into the mix, and see if casters still seem OP. If this seems like too much, scale it to 1% chance for every 20 resist. For the normally geared player, on a brand new server, either of these would still add up to an extremely low chance of full resisting. You've got to remember, people's resists are going to SUCK when the server goes live, and for a long time thereafter. The recent changes mean casters will dominate melees, 'til Velious. This would be throwing melees a small bone, but even still, it's not much, but every little bit helps.

This proposal, by the way, is far less than the chance to full resist than I recall on classic live. If you ran around with 300+ elemental resists, you were only being hit for full with lures or taps, full and nearly full resists on normal DD's were common. Granted we don't want people to be immune to everything, that's just dumb, but we DO want resists to account for something, you know?

And with the current changes, I am most definitely rolling a caster, and my alt will be a caster. Next alt might be a bard. Was debating a melee main, and after the recent changes was thinking maybe a melee alt, but then I thought "why would I do that to myself?" heh. Even with my proposed change, I'm rollin' a caster. They are just too stacked, and nobody is going to have the resists that things were just recently balanced around.

[Booglie]

i had 208 fr, i resisted rain spells, dual effect dd spells and the like.

i resisted single effect nukes 5% of the time at 208, just like at 25 because that is what the resistance rate was on those spells.

if the chance of getting a full resist on live was only 5% on live, then i must have been the luckiest guy around, because i remember getting way more resists than that and most of the kunark vellious area i ran around with closer to 150 resists.

not to say i think these are bad, but it seems to be way more damage than on live from my memory.

[Null]

Gonna post some hard stats since the 40 casts that Darwoth posted are all I have seen. These were generated with a simulator that uses the same code as the server.

The following are spell damage averages over 1000 casts of Starfall by a Druid, and the total of 8 casts (which is about the expected well geared druid can dish out in a bar of mana).


Resist : Average : Total
25FR : 489 : 3912
50FR : 485 : 3880
75FR : 455 : 3640
100FR : 371 : 2968
125FR : 299 : 2392
150FR : 257 : 2056
200FR : 201 : 1608
250FR : 158 : 1264


Keep in mind that these are average damage totals, so it is entirely possible that someone could do much much more or much much less, especially in the 100-150 range. All pure nukes (nukes that only nuke, not dots and not nukes that stun) follow the same curve, so while the numbers might change the percentages should be about the same.

[Bkab]

if the chance of getting a full resist on live was only 5% on live, then i must have been the luckiest guy around, because i remember getting way more resists than that and most of the kunark vellious area i ran around with closer to 150 resists.

not to say i think these are bad, but it seems to be way more damage than on live from my memory.
This.

Darworth you're acting like 150 fr is nothing in classic. During classic era on live and kunaark if you had resists that high chances are you resisted a nice sized portion of the nuke )on avg and that's a fact. I also recall as booglie said getting full resists at a rate higher than 5 % with 150+ resists. 40 nukes with not one single full resist is ridiculous if your fr is that high. You're not taking into account no one will have resists like this for a long time and taking the time to get your resists that high should actually be worthwhile. I'm not saying it should make people immune to spells or taking damage but it should do more than what its doing now if your resists are this good. But you dont care wbhat anyone elses input on the matter is because you play a druid and that would not benefit you so instead you just flame people and say they never played classic live becauae they dont agree with you cause you act like you somehow remember the exact number at which every spell in eq was resisted at on every single resist number lol.

[Humerox]

Gonna post some hard stats since the 40 casts that Darwoth posted are all I have seen. These were generated with a simulator that uses the same code as the server.

The following are spell damage averages over 1000 casts of Starfall by a Druid, and the total of 8 casts (which is about the expected well geared druid can dish out in a bar of mana).


Resist : Average : Total
25FR : 489 : 3912
50FR : 485 : 3880
75FR : 455 : 3640
100FR : 371 : 2968
125FR : 299 : 2392
150FR : 257 : 2056
200FR : 201 : 1608
250FR : 158 : 1264


Keep in mind that these are average damage totals, so it is entirely possible that someone could do much much more or much much less, especially in the 100-150 range. All pure nukes (nukes that only nuke, not dots and not nukes that stun) follow the same curve, so while the numbers might change the percentages should be about the same.

That actually looks pretty sweet.

[Darwoth2]

your remembering resisting the spells that had a completely different resistance formula, i have gone up against the heaviest geared velious era raider fags on RZ many of whom had close to 300 FR if not over, my spells were obviously weak but i did not get get red text resists on wildfire/scoraie at all past the default level, at 208 mage bolts and wizard draughts never redded out on me either. what did red out frequently were rain spells, nukes with stuns, knockbacks or debuffs attached to them and all MR based nukes. of those types that i have tested these spells are full resisting approximately 50% of the time against 140ish resistance.

having a 10 - 15 % chance to full resist a spell in addition to the 50% or more chance to only take a quarter of the incoming damage is right back to stupidville that we just came from.

anyone competitive will have 150ish to the cold fire and magic resistances within a month of hitting 50, those that are not competitive will dirtnap all day anyway, every caster has spells to buff their resistances as well. i think a large part of the problem is that melees unreasonably expect to have equally high resistances as casters with their buffs as early as the casters do.

this is stupid given that i am not walking around with plate armor class melee mitigation, as such why should they be walking around with the same level of resistance?

of course by kunark this falls by the wayside completely as a melee with their wider armor selection have the option of stacking resistances well past what a fully buffed caster is capable of.

[Darwoth2]

This.

Darworth you're acting like 150 fr is nothing in classic. During classic era on live and kunaark if you had resists that high chances are you resisted a nice sized portion of the nuke )on avg and that's a fact.

yes, it is a fact. and under the current system at 150 fr you will be taking a paltry quarter of the incoming damage about half of the time, if you expect more than that you are just being unreasonable.

[Bkab]

Not at all. I didn't see nulls post after mine with the resist tables and average damage until after i posted that. I was going by what your average was when you tested it at like 340dmg or whatever it was.

[Darwoth2]

i was testing at 124 fr, not 150

and 40 nukes is not a very large test sample, 1 or 2 lucky hits can completely throw off the results. i would be happy to shit out a string of a thousand nukes but i am not about to sit on my ass regenning mana all day to post results just so some jackoff with 60 resistance can come wipe his ass all over my thread and tell me how much of a douchebag i am and that i just want to run around shitting on people.

[gdg]

142 MR would produce only a 10% chance of getting hit for full, about 40% of them would hit for 65-85% and 50% would hit for 25-35%.

80 CR would have the 10% chance to hit for full, about 58 would hit for 95-100% and 32% would hit for 45-55%

These change a bit depending on who is casting the spell and what spell is being cast but the above will be close enough to determine if gear is worth while.

Null,

No offence intended, but there is some fuzzy math in the code then. Keep in mind i'm giving you my unbuffed stats, so + 40 to those resists with buffs and my resist rates didn't change a lick. I was getting DD'd landed by enchanters with my MR breaching the 180 mark, even with null potions +25 more mr pushing me into the 200's and still MR based dd's were landing as well as a majority of bard songs.

I would challenge you to test this out a tad closer before calling it a day and going live.

[Lovely]

The only concerns I have atm is the Bard songs not having resist checks (didn't try it since patch though) and the CC bug Null already know about and will fix.

[Smedy]

was pvping it up last night and the resists look really nice.

i am concerned about the bards tho, i haven't met one yet but i hear they op as fuk.

[Darwoth2]

bond of death also needs to be able to be dispelled instead of no icon showing up like current, i know its on the radar to be fixed but figured i would mention it anyway.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

4) snare landed 1 out of 10 on average ... with 142 MR
5) root seemed to land more often, 4 out of 10 or more


Pretty much everyone is against root landing this much, it should land 10% of the time like snare. If casters do this much damage and land root this easily, this server will be a complete joke to play a melee on. I'm not even going to play if the server launches like that.

People can live with seeing 950 damage ice comets every now and then, but fuck no to being chain rooted plus seeing 950 damage ice comets constantly on top of that. Could you imagine playing a rogue on this server? You would have to be a complete idiot. I wouldn't even play a large race warrior let alone a rogue or monk.

[Lovely]

I wish I had those magic Ice comets cause mine can't hit over 900 damage

[Crazerous]

Gonna post some hard stats since the 40 casts that Darwoth posted are all I have seen. These were generated with a simulator that uses the same code as the server.

The following are spell damage averages over 1000 casts of Starfall by a Druid, and the total of 8 casts (which is about the expected well geared druid can dish out in a bar of mana).


Resist : Average : Total
25FR : 489 : 3912
50FR : 485 : 3880
75FR : 455 : 3640
100FR : 371 : 2968
125FR : 299 : 2392
150FR : 257 : 2056
200FR : 201 : 1608
250FR : 158 : 1264


Keep in mind that these are average damage totals, so it is entirely possible that someone could do much much more or much much less, especially in the 100-150 range. All pure nukes (nukes that only nuke, not dots and not nukes that stun) follow the same curve, so while the numbers might change the percentages should be about the same.

see thats fine than, null is doing a good job

[Booglie]

Again, don't take this as me arguing with this resist system bring bad, but how high can most classes get their Mr cr and fr self buffed without pots? I know im running around on beta with some sweet gear atm, but self buffed my my line reads something like 114 124 79. That might not be exactly right, I can't log in to check, but its close.
I've given up some resists for HP, so it can definitely get highet.
What are other toons decked out pre blue diamond gear able to get resist wise?
Edit. I hate the autocorrect on my phone.

[Amuk]

Looks good Null.

[Greenkrak]

bond of death also needs to be able to be dispelled instead of no icon showing up like current, i know its on the radar to be fixed but figured i would mention it anyway.

bump this ^^^

[lethdar]

Ench nukes resist a ton, pretty sure they're coded as stuns rather than nukes. Chaotic feedback was one of the main spells every enc would keep memed forever as a quick interrupt and here it complete resists a ton.

[Nirgon]

One thing, to be sure, there's a chance to resist out right even with base fr/cr. Having discussed with an esteemed colleague, he has a screen shot of completely resisting a conflagaration in front of SolB from me while naked on CR. A very, very rare chance but I think this is worth noting.



this server will be a complete joke to play a melee on.

Could you imagine playing a rogue on this server? You would have to be a complete idiot.

Bud, you don't want to be in the world of pain that is getting muscle locked and beat down by a hasted rogue + an accomplice. Eyerazzia, god forbid a crystalline spear will put you down hard. This server will be going to Kunark and seeing rogue duelist. I might not suggest rogue as a first character, but they will definitely be viable and nasty down the road.


Null, pls if you'd be so kind test root, whirl, stun, blind, snare with your parser. It may do much to silence the masses or otherwise show a flaw.

[Cymbal]

the topic we really need to discuss is how much resists do you think the AVERAGE warrior, rogue, monk have at lvl 50. This being UNBUFFED, and with PRE-RAID gear.

then we can address resistances, and how much damage they should take off nukes.

These classes first need to worry about getting MR up to a safe level to resist CC. often times to get fr/cr you need to TRADE stats.

this is CLASSIC. there arent that many stats to go around....

[Nirgon]

They should work like they did in classic. Let's stick to discussing what spells esp the CC variety landed re: frequency.

[Null]

keep in mind when reading these that Snare and Root durations are non-classic but enforced on the client (no 10 minute Ensnares or multi-minute Roots) and Root can be broken by melee here.


Root
Resist : Chance to Resist
25MR : 23%
50MR : 40%
75MR : 53%
100MR : 65%
125MR : 74%
150MR : 80%
175MR : 85%
200MR : 88%
250MR+ : 95%

Snare
Resist : Chance to Resist
25MR : 25%
50MR : 44%
75MR : 59%
100MR : 70%
125MR : 80%
150MR : 86%
175MR : 90%
200MR : 93%
215MR+ : 95%

Blind
Resist : Chance to Resist : Average Duration
25MR : 38% : 77%
50MR : 60% : 52%
75MR : 78% : 42%
100MR : 90% : 34%
125MR+ : 100% : N/A

Whirl
Resist : Chance to Resist
25MR : 38%
50MR : 60%
75MR : 78%
100MR : 90%
125MR+ : 100%

Stun (True Stun, not Mez)
Resist : Chance to Resist : Average Duration
25MR : 15% : 100%
50MR : 27% : 90%
75MR : 36% : 79%
100MR : 45% : 67%
125MR : 55% : 60%
150MR : 59% : 53%
175MR : 64% : 49%
200MR : 72% : 44%
250MR : 81% : 39%
300MR : 86% : 36%
350MR+ : 95% : 33%

[Amuk]

Looks pretty good, in my head I picture snares/roots a little easier to resist - but not much, and may just be foggy memory. I ran around with 150 mr and pretty sure it was 95% but not gona mass qq over 10%

[Vile]

Stun resistance looks off ...

[psyops]

Are the darkness line of spells similar to snare resists? I can't remember, its been years.

[Nirgon]

Yeah, stun and whirl... blind might need a look / I have to think more :P.

That up there is what we've needed sir.

[Not_Kazowi]

stun resistance is way too low, at 100MR it should be like 85% chance to resist

[Null]

stun resistance is way too low, at 100MR it should be like 85% chance to resist

Is stun more or less detrimental than root or snare in your eyes?

[Rallyd]

I don't ever remember partials on stuns, but with 150 MR they rarely ever landed iirc. A lot of you guys bitching about resists must be remembering the way old vztz was, you've warped your brains so hard you don't even remember what "classic" is all about. Casters were always extremely op in non twink situations all the way to 50, even in full BIS resist gear casters were dangerous.

Resists, without bard songs, weren't that devastating to single target DD's, when u get over 200 with bard songs they started to get shaky.

Edit : Stuns were almost equally as devastating as snare and root, they didn't drop your sow, but not being able to act for 3-4 seconds in a team fight was devastating. I wouldn't go as far as 85% at 100, i'd say 85% at 200, 72% or so at 100.

[Nirgon]

Null: Added a chance to break root from melee. The chance for root to break is equal to 20% of the damage dealt.

Melee damage never broke root. This is coming from someone who (knows) wants root to (should) land less :P. Only spell damage broke it.

Whirl should work ... really never. Stuns should be pretty pwned too, though a Ykesha proc might hit more often. Root definitely needs to be bumped down on the rate it lands on the 80+ marker.

[Kringe]

Is stun more or less detrimental than root or snare in your eyes?


Stun can/is more detrimental than root/snare 100%... I can pummice/golem wand whatever absolutely necessary to get rid of root/snare if need be... But Stun, there is no way out.. Your flat out stuck there, with hybrids manapool etc.. Chain stunning/lock downs will be so much QQ, even on the best/top end geared warriors with those variables in place.

[chuck]

I re-read this like 4 times to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me. Guess it's time to roll a paladin if Null is gonna keep it like that - which is retarded to say the least. ;)

[Rallyd]

Everything on that chart looks really good so far, except stuns, they need to be bumped closer to root. Great job so far. If I were a whiner I would say bards need to be looked at but, everything they are doing is definately classic, unfortunately ^_^.

[Null]

Null: Added a chance to break root from melee. The chance for root to break is equal to 20% of the damage dealt.

Melee damage never broke root. This is coming from someone who (knows) wants root to (should) land less :P. Only spell damage broke it.


I know it worked that way on live.

[Null]

I re-read this like 4 times to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me. Guess it's time to roll a paladin if Null is gonna keep it like that - which is retarded to say the least. ;)

Good thing its beta right brodog?

[Titanuk]

lol stun does look a little off null pal

[Titanuk]

Everything on that chart looks really good so far, except stuns, they need to be bumped closer to root. Great job so far. If I were a whiner I would say bards need to be looked at but, everything they are doing is definately classic, unfortunately ^_^.

holy fuck farva is back

[Booglie]

as a caster i sure have to put a vote in that stun is worse than root or snare.
you can still fight back, and move through spells when rooted or stunned (or you can dispel as stated)
stunned you get interrupted, then have to sit your ass down right there.
is screaming terror on the same resist rate as mez?

[chuck]

Good thing its beta right brodog?

yes indeed bronigdog

[Nirgon]

I know it worked that way on live.

Alright then, it does make sense.

Get off my man's back here. He's gladly posting data that puts an end to a lot of subjective bickering and painful "med back to full" testing. Give him some input (if you know wtf you're talking about) and be patient.

[Nirgon]

screaming terror

I recall it being resisted more than enchanter mezzes (in pvp at least) but it did also break on damage.

[lethdar]

Stun is way worse than root/snare. With root, snare, mez, etc there's all ways to deal with it, via crim pots, pumice, using a staff of runes, even using good communication with your groupmates and having them pell it off you if you're a pure melee with shit channeling, etc. Stuns are all cheap and can be chain casted forever and when landed on a target allow them to do nothing at all to counter it.

It should land very rarely, otherwise the best tactic in pvp against anyone is to have multiple stun classes just spam it mindlessly.

[lethdar]

Btw, are enchanter nukes all coded as stuns as well? 99% sure they weren't considered such on live due to chaotic feedback / etc always landing with partials whereas whirl and other pure stuns weren't even bothered with.

[Rallyd]

Also is shock of lightning doing pushback? One of a wizards most important tools vs casters, acted as a single target DD as far as resists, but had a pseudo interrupt that caused a channel check

[Nirgon]

With and without tash is the question that is going to make me not be able to remember so well :P.

With tash? No whirl. Dunno on mezzes, I wasn't nuked very often without being tashed. The enchanter nukes hit pretty well if I was tashed in no drop. If I was in full gear (counting Velium BD bracers later) ... not so much, even w/ tash. Dunno the #'s on that atm.

[Darwoth2]

i will throw my hat in the pile for stun being more detrimental than root/snare/mez there are counters to the others, being stunlocked is probably the most annoying way to get killed.

[Nirgon]

It also just really didn't land.

[Lovely]

Also is shock of lightning doing pushback? One of a wizards most important tools vs casters, acted as a single target DD as far as resists, but had a pseudo interrupt that caused a channel check

It uses the same resist code as stuns right now so it's 100% useless and no Wizard will ever have it mem'd beside for nuking mobs at level 12.

[Rallyd]

Would be a real shame, Shock of Lightning was a golden spell for wizards, bread and butter even in PVE.

[Nirgon]

Shock of lightning may incorrectly be on the same resist line as force shock / force strike etc.. would defs be worth a look into that.

[Titanuk]

rerolling pally/cleric

[Null]

rerolling pally/cleric

This post swayed me. The nerfs will continue until Titanuk rerolls human rogue.

[Amuk]

Yeah guess I was mainly focusing on blind/whirl/root/snares being ok - stuns are definitely as OP as blind etc - anyone who played on KAB know that from me stun locking bitches, and I was just one pal. Red99 assist train may have 2-3 or more pals, and who knows how many clerics spamming stuns if it lands this much. I doubt anyone will be over 175 mr and that's a 64% chance to resist yuck. Should be on par with roots/snares at least.

[Tombom]

lol even as a pally imma go ahead and say nerf them stuns son.

[Nirgon]

OP or not, it just wasn't this way friends.

[Pudge]

if melee is going to break root..... when it didn't at all before.. maybe 10% of the damage taken as a chance is more appropriate? i mean, if it's 20%, then it's basically once you accumulate 500 damage = guaranteed root break (theoretically - i know the RNG is streaky). in kunark, a good double attack with a 2-handed weapon will be like 80% chance to break root.

and i hope only PC damage has this chance to break root :P

[vinx]

A lot of you guys bitching about resists must be remembering the way old vztz was, you've warped your brains so hard you don't even remember what "classic" is all about. Casters were always extremely op in non twink situations all the way to 50, even in full BIS resist gear casters were dangerous.
been sayin this for months...nobody gets it
its all...this never landed/that never landed/pets suck etc
all coming from a tzvz view or past live memories of further expansions, or from a time when they already had ridiculous resist stats post 50

the topic we really need to discuss is how much resists do you think the AVERAGE warrior, rogue, monk have at lvl 50. This being UNBUFFED, and with PRE-RAID gear.

then we can address resistances, and how much damage they should take off nukes.

These classes first need to worry about getting MR up to a safe level to resist CC. often times to get fr/cr you need to TRADE stats.

this is CLASSIC. there arent that many stats to go around....
^ agreed
This should open eyes on how OP casters really are in classic lol

If not: melee >caster at character creation cuz they are only going to get better 50+

[Smedy]

Is stun more or less detrimental than root or snare in your eyes?

Well, the problem with stun is the duration, however the user of stun usually don't want the duration, he wants the interrupt portion.

So crank up the reduction of time stunned, yet keep the stun resist at what you have it, and you'll be fine.

Stun is nice to have as a strategic interrupt of spell casting, but clearly OP if can be used as a stunlock/mez.

Dont make a perfectly fine line of spells useless, make them count in pvp for interrupting.

[SearyxTZ]

From a melee perspective:



Root/Snare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stun



A lot of class stuns are on long cooldowns too (Wizards). You can't spam those endlessly like you can with Root, and you're looking at a few seconds duration max versus up to 10 minutes ensnared.

[Crazerous]

Is stun more or less detrimental than root or snare in your eyes?

they are all game changing.... stun needs to be the same as root and snare.

[Crazerous]

Well, the problem with stun is the duration, however the user of stun usually don't want the duration, he wants the interrupt portion.

So crank up the reduction of time stunned, yet keep the stun resist at what you have it, and you'll be fine.

Stun is nice to have as a strategic interrupt of spell casting, but clearly OP if can be used as a stunlock/mez.

Dont make a perfectly fine line of spells useless, make them count in pvp for interrupting.

what the hell are you talking about?? make it as close to classic as possible. stuns should be flat out resisted 90% of the time or more when u get to 150MR....lets not customize and make them almost unresistable but shorter and longer casts or w.e the fuck.

[Naez 4.20]

nobody ever actually full resists a nuke, ever, even with waaaay better gear than anyone is going to have for ages

[Lazortag]

keep in mind when reading these that Snare and Root durations are non-classic but enforced on the client (no 10 minute Ensnares or multi-minute Roots) and Root can be broken by melee here.


While I don't think this will hurt the server that much, I don't see why we have a chance for melee to break root. If the resistance rate is lower than it was on Live then that should be enough to counterbalance the fact that root doesn't last as long as it did on Live.

Also, if the devs find a way to fix the issue of the client limiting snare/root durations... will you guys implement classic resists for those spells? Just curious.

[Kain]

Attempted to snare bard with 158 MR. He resisted 6 times, one he instantly cancelled and the other only lasted two seconds.

I used 80% of my mana for a two second snare, and that doesn't sound right to me.

I have 98 MR, and he just perpetually mezzed me with no resist.

Ps: why do we have 2 resist threads??

[gloinz]

Attempted to snare bard with 158 MR. He resisted 6 times, one he instantly cancelled and the other only lasted two seconds.

I used 80% of my mana for a two second snare, and that doesn't sound right to me.

I have 98 MR, and he just perpetually mezzed me with no resist.

Ps: why do we have 2 resist threads??

you used 80% of your mana on two secound snare = you are terrible

[Crazerous]

kain is obviously a troll

[gloinz]

no ppl are really that dumb around these blocks i think

[Smedy]

what the hell are you talking about?? make it as close to classic as possible. stuns should be flat out resisted 90% of the time or more when u get to 150MR....lets not customize and make them almost unresistable but shorter and longer casts or w.e the fuck.

what the fuck

i said decrease the duration it stuns and keep it the way it is, how it 60% resist at 150 mr unresistable to you you fuck, and if it only stuns you for a brief moment, how is it op? it can only be used to interrupt a spell nothing more.

but for the sake of it ill modify nulls list to what i think is ok.

Stun (True Stun, not Mez)
Resist : Chance to Resist : Average Duration
25MR : 25% : 100%
50MR : 45% : 90%
75MR : 50% : 79%
100MR : 60% : 50%
125MR : 65% : 40%
150MR : 70% : 35%
175MR : 77% : 30%
200MR : 83% : 25%
250MR : 85% : 20%
300MR : 90% : 15%
350MR+ : 95% : 10%

do whatever you want tbh i dont give a shit, either way null does it there will be complaints, cause you know why? it's fucking random, meaning your sore ass can still be rooted 10 times in a row with a 99% resist rate.

[Jirr]

what the fuck

i said decrease the duration it stuns and keep it the way it is, how it 60% resist at 150 mr unresistable to you you fuck, and if it only stuns you for a brief moment, how is it op? it can only be used to interrupt a spell nothing more.

but for the sake of it ill modify nulls list to what i think is ok.

Stun (True Stun, not Mez)
Resist : Chance to Resist : Average Duration
25MR : 25% : 100%
50MR : 45% : 90%
75MR : 50% : 79%
100MR : 60% : 50%
125MR : 65% : 40%
150MR : 70% : 35%
175MR : 77% : 30%
200MR : 83% : 25%
250MR : 85% : 20%
300MR : 90% : 15%
350MR+ : 95% : 10%

do whatever you want tbh i dont give a shit, either way null does it there will be complaints, cause you know why? it's fucking random, meaning your sore ass can still be rooted 10 times in a row with a 99% resist rate.


The main use of stun in large scale pvp is to interrupt selos. Smedy, your table could make stun useless on a bard in kunark era gear maybe even classic.

[Lovely]

What stuns is it that people are whining about exactly? Because it definitely can't be Wizard stuns.

Both Wizard stuns have really long cooldowns and the 50 mana stun last for 1.5 second max and the 200 mana stun last for 2.5 seconds max. Even with a fkin 200 mana stun people have time to run out of range if you try to land a big nuke after it. This is when not resisting.. Then add a like 65%+ resist chance on anyone with decent MR.

What are the stuns that last long?

[Authority]

Lovely, jump off of something high. Your constant wiz only plugs are terrible. The fact that you see everything as an attack on your class(although you say you're going monk) is equally retarded. The fact that you don't know that other classes, have much, much better stuns than you shows your lack of knowledge. kick rocks pls.

[Kringe]

what the fuck

i said decrease the duration it stuns and keep it the way it is, how it 60% resist at 150 mr unresistable to you you fuck, and if it only stuns you for a brief moment, how is it op? it can only be used to interrupt a spell nothing more.

but for the sake of it ill modify nulls list to what i think is ok.

Stun (True Stun, not Mez)
Resist : Chance to Resist : Average Duration
25MR : 25% : 100%
50MR : 45% : 90%
75MR : 50% : 79%
100MR : 60% : 50%
125MR : 65% : 40%
150MR : 70% : 35%
175MR : 77% : 30%
200MR : 83% : 25%
250MR : 85% : 20%
300MR : 90% : 15%
350MR+ : 95% : 10%

do whatever you want tbh i dont give a shit, either way null does it there will be complaints, cause you know why? it's fucking random, meaning your sore ass can still be rooted 10 times in a row with a 99% resist rate.

Smedy is obviously trolling, just look at his screenshots where he is laughing his ass off when him and Last Stun Locked Rexx on 2 paladins as a fully geared Kunark warrior..


Clerics get 4 stuns - in Classic
Pallys 2
1 cleric and a pally can literally stunlock a raid geared warrior without him moving, is pretty lols..... Throw in the fact of multiple clerics/ or pallys and pvp will get dumbed down to ridiculous amounts...

[Tamiah2011]

Smedy is obviously trolling, just look at his screen shots, where he is laughing his ass off him and Last Stun Locked Rexx on 2 paladins as a fully geared Kunark warrior..


Clerics get 4 stuns - in Classic
Pallys 2
1 cleric and a pally can literally stunlock a raid geared warrior without him moving, is pretty lols..... Throw in the fact of multiple clerics/ or pallys and pvp will get dumbed down to ridiculous amounts...

It has always been this way from the beging of EQ, Warriors have always been the ugly step child, things change for warriors around Kunark and they become beasts.

[Rust1d?]

I played a warrior on early live (1999) and they sucked bad. They are not supposed to be good in classic. Although they should have been better but the devs at the time nerfed everyone else instead of buffing the warrior.

[Kringe]

It has always been this way from the beging of EQ, Warriors have always been the ugly step child, things change for warriors around Kunark and they become beasts.

Are you literally that retarded???

How does this have ANYTHING to do with warriors??? Warriors are only being used in examples because they have the highest possible MR... It has NOTHING to do with how good/bad they are.... JFC people are stupid as fuck...

Take a warrior out of the equation...... for lack of a better term..

1 Cleric has access to 4 Seperate Stuns in Classic
1 Paladin has access to 2 Stuns -
Thats just 2 classes.... Do you want to be fully Raid geared on your Monk/caster/Hybrid/Etc... And literally NEVER be able to move in PVP because 1 or 2 clerics locked you down completely with 1.5-2 sec cast stuns/ being rotated focus fired???
Its literally the dumbest thing ever... But I mean if thats what it is then so be it lol...

[Amuk]

I played a warrior on early live (1999) and they sucked bad. They are not supposed to be good in classic. Although they should have been better but the devs at the time nerfed everyone else instead of buffing the warrior.

You suck period though. PS he's refering to MR and stuns landing - not how good warriors are.

Rust1d and Tamiah on one page this is fucking retarded, the people arguing against Kringe is just unreal, and it makes it looks like there's a difference of opinion when anyone who has played live would know those spells shouldn't be landing heh.

[Tamiah2011]

Are you literally that retarded???

How does this have ANYTHING to do with warriors??? Warriors are only being used in examples because they have the highest possible MR... It has NOTHING to do with how good/bad they are.... JFC people are stupid as fuck...

Take a warrior out of the equation...... for lack of a better term..

1 Cleric has access to 4 Seperate Stuns in Classic
1 Paladin has access to 2 Stuns -
Thats just 2 classes.... Do you want to be fully Raid geared on your Monk/caster/Hybrid/Etc... And literally NEVER be able to move in PVP because 1 or 2 clerics locked you down completely with 1.5-2 sec cast stuns/ being rotated focus fired???
Its literally the dumbest thing ever... But I mean if thats what it is then so be it lol...


you get your resists high enough and get buffed up, there going run out of mana before you die.My sk geared and buffed has 3450 hps and most resists over 110

[Tamiah2011]

You suck period though. PS he's refering to MR and stuns landing - not how good warriors are.

Rust1d and Tamiah on one page this is fucking retarded, the people arguing against Kringe is just unreal, and it makes it looks like there's a difference of opinion when anyone who has played live would know those spells shouldn't be landing heh.

dude, its alwayyyys been this way since day one of EQ.Warrior have always gotten owned pvp 1v1 they are group based..

[Amuk]

He's talking about MR and stun landing, not how good warriors are - you still don't understand that?

[Tamiah2011]

He's talking about MR and stun landing, not how good warriors are - you still don't understand that?

no he stating why he getting owned so easy, the effect work the same on all classes.If the guy would spend alittle time getting gear and buff boot he wouldnt have a issue.He lazy and wanting easy play.

[Amuk]

Ok I'm done with you, definitely the most retarded person I've seen on the forums.

[Smedy]

Smedy is obviously trolling, just look at his screenshots where he is laughing his ass off when him and Last Stun Locked Rexx on 2 paladins as a fully geared Kunark warrior..


Clerics get 4 stuns - in Classic
Pallys 2
1 cleric and a pally can literally stunlock a raid geared warrior without him moving, is pretty lols..... Throw in the fact of multiple clerics/ or pallys and pvp will get dumbed down to ridiculous amounts...

Can you read or does bodu do that for you as well?

How can you stunlock someone if the stuns only last for 0.3 seconds? (35% stun duration at raid gear level 150mr) with 77% resist rate.

You're saying that i'm gonna land every stun even though there's only a 23# chance of one landing, and if it lands it only stuns you for about 0.3 seconds.

Man the harpoons, the army of 300 clerics coming to stun lock your face dog

rofl.

PS, i did mention stun resists were fucked on vztz.

I think nulls idea of dropping the stun duration is great, that way stuns can be a part of the game, but still not OP cause you can't stun lock anyone, you can only use it to interrupt spells.

[Tamiah2011]

Ok I'm done with you, definitely the most retarded person I've seen on the forums.

well proof me different, make any class you want and stun/snare will work the same on any class, He want R99 to beef up warrior resists because HE having a hard time soloing?

[Kringe]

Stun Stuns the target 35 Mana
Holy Might Stuns target with a small amount of damage 60 Mana

Raid Geared Cleric will have around 1800 Mana - More with Manastone and Clarity
Raid Geared Pally will have around 1200 Mana - More with Clarity/ Manastone.


You see where your 3500point SK will never move? And the cleric pally wont run out of mana chain stunning you for minimal 6 rounds..... Thats 30 seconds of stunning and unable to move.... Clearly not op..

You think your sk with 3500 hp can live thru 30seconds of stun not moving in pvp?

[Tamiah2011]

Stun Stuns the target 35 Mana
Holy Might Stuns target with a small amount of damage 60 Mana

Raid Geared Cleric will have around 1800 Mana - More with Manastone and Clarity
Raid Geared Pally will have around 1200 Mana - More with Clarity/ Manastone.


You see where your 3500point SK will never move? And the cleric pally wont run out of mana chain stunning you for minimal 6 rounds..... Thats 30 seconds of stunning and unable to move.... Clearly not op..

You think your sk with 3500 hp can live thru 30seconds of stun not moving in pvp?



Dude, Your really going run back to blue server when you meet a enc. lolol If your in a group and the pally/cleric is chain stunning you that awsome your doing your job, and the cleric and pally will be dead within 1 min.Again WARRIORS are meant to be in groups not running around soloing.

[Smedy]

Stun Stuns the target 35 Mana
Holy Might Stuns target with a small amount of damage 60 Mana

Raid Geared Cleric will have around 1800 Mana - More with Manastone and Clarity
Raid Geared Pally will have around 1200 Mana - More with Clarity/ Manastone.


You see where your 3500point SK will never move? And the cleric pally wont run out of mana chain stunning you for minimal 6 rounds..... Thats 30 seconds of stunning and unable to move.... Clearly not op..

You think your sk with 3500 hp can live thru 30seconds of stun not moving in pvp?

Kringe arguing with me quoting my numbers yet going with the original null numbers that i clearly showed i didn't agree with since i posted my own numbers.

LOGICAL KENTUCKY, snapping turtle fishing dog

[kprobe]

Null if those are you numbers, I think its higher on beta. The DD's do seem to be landing higher.

I suggest you take 2 people and test them out on beta live with a large pool of numbers to make sure there isn't a desync between what you're simulating and what we're seeing.

The caster nukes should be brought down a notch or two, and then you're golden. The system now is better, just still to heavily leaning on casters.

[Kringe]

Dude, Your really going run back to blue server when you meet a enc. lolol If your in a group and the pally/cleric is chain stunning you that awsome your doing your job, and the cleric and pally will be dead within 1 min.Again WARRIORS are meant to be in groups not running around soloing.

Didnt you say you played on RZ from day 1 i think??? Remember a enchanter killing everyone named Rigamortiz? Thats me.... So im clearly aware of what every class can do..... Move along son... I cannot believe you still think we are talking about solo warriors here... This blows my fucking mind.

[Darwoth2]

Null if those are you numbers, I think its higher on beta. The DD's do seem to be landing higher.

I suggest you take 2 people and test them out on beta live with a large pool of numbers to make sure there isn't a desync between what you're simulating and what we're seeing.

The caster nukes should be brought down a notch or two, and then you're golden. The system now is better, just still to heavily leaning on casters.




Keep in mind that these are average damage totals, so it is entirely possible that someone could do much much more or much much less, especially in the 100-150 range. All pure nukes (nukes that only nuke, not dots and not nukes that stun) follow the same curve, so while the numbers might change the percentages should be about the same.

[Tamiah2011]

Didnt you say you played on RZ from day 1 i think??? Remember a enchanter killing everyone named Rigamortiz? Thats me.... So im clearly aware of what every class can do..... Move along son... I cannot believe you still think we are talking about solo warriors here... This blows my fucking mind.

Then please explain to me if your in a group why would a pally/cleric waste there mana trying to lock a warrior down?Your complaining because you came from the blue server lastnight and got owned on pvp trying to solo a warrior.Do not come to pvp chat and talk b/s about the resist when you only attempted to try pvp beta one day.

[Kringe]

I was 50 on beta on Dontbrag before you thought about playing... So sit back son... Arguing with you is pretty pointless... I will leave it at that.

[Tamiah2011]

I was 50 on beta on Dontbrag before you thought about playing... So sit back son... Arguing with you is pretty pointless... I will leave it at that.

Noob I was playing beta EQ 99 day one and Beta day one R99 so please stfu

[Amuk]

Then please explain to me if your in a group why would a pally/cleric waste there mana trying to lock a warrior down?Your complaining because you came from the blue server lastnight and got owned on pvp trying to solo a warrior.Do not come to pvp chat and talk b/s about the resist when you only attempted to try pvp beta one day.

The only warrior reference was to Smedy duoing with another pally locking down the best geared warrior on a box where MR was broken and stuns landed a lot, and a claim that he was just trolling. Kringe never tried to solo a warrior, where do you get this stuff from LOL.

I really think you're just trolling with a random text generator, cause you clearly can't understand shit people say, or follow a conversation.

[Tamiah2011]

The only warrior reference was to Smedy duoing with another pally locking down the best geared warrior on a box where MR was broken and stuns landed a lot, and a claim that he was just trolling. Kringe never tried to solo a warrior, where do you get this stuff from LOL.

I really think you're just trolling with a random text generator, cause you clearly can't understand shit people say, or follow a conversation.

no your just to dumb to read between the lines.Why would a pally/cleric go after a warrior that in a group and start stunning him? Amuk, but maybe you would lolol

[Nirgon]

^

[Nirgon]

He would if stuns were broken

Crack head


Noob I was playing beta EQ 99 day one and Beta day one R99 so please stfu

Server / char name?

[Amuk]

That's not the point Tamiah, stuns landing that often will let any focus target be stun locked while the assist train destroys them, just like snare/root. I'll repeat, the only warrior reference is in regards to smedy duoing with another paladin to gank a solo warrior with perma lock stuns and him trolling support of stuns.

All the SS shows is that two paladins, against the best geared warrior can be perma locked down with stun resists being broken, and that red99 will have more than two stun classes in an assist train.

I really don't think you'll understand this but the fact that you can't read is more interesting to me right now then playing LoL.

[Tamiah2011]

That's not the point Tamiah, stuns landing that often will let any focus target be stun locked while the assist train destroys them, just like snare/root. I'll repeat, the only warrior reference is in regards to smedy duoing with another paladin to gank a solo warrior with perma lock stuns and him trolling support of stuns.

All the SS shows is that two paladins, against the best geared warrior can be perma locked down with stun resists being broken, and that red99 will have more than two stun classes in an assist train.

I really don't think you'll understand this but the fact that you can't read is more interesting to me right now then playing LoL.

Dude, It was the same damm way in EQ classic, you sure your old enough to remimber that?

[Nirgon]

Who's your live char Tam?

[Amuk]

Stuns/roots/blinds/snares landing 150 mr+ in classic did not happen, maybe 6% of the time.

[Tamiah2011]

Who's your live char Tam?

Had 3 account which one. maybe guild names? COTCW,DM,CT and what the fuck does it matter now lolol

[Tamiah2011]

Stuns/roots/blinds/snares landing 150 mr+ in classic did not happen, maybe 6% of the time.

dude, most players in beta dont have 100 wtf u talking about lol

[Amuk]

The charts that Null posted.

[Tamiah2011]

The charts that Null posted.

do you even play beta lol? I have played since day one and system is running great atm.I tired every class lastnight and had a blast.People tend to forget EQ is a MMO designed for grouping not soloing.Only the one with no lifes and big ecos think otherwise, this is why pvp fails.Best pvp comes 6 month after server open not before.

[gloinz]

do you even play beta lol? I have played since day one and system is running great atm.I tired every class lastnight and had a blast.People tend to forget EQ is a MMO designed for grouping not soloing.Only the one with no lifes and big ecos think otherwise, this is why pvp fails.Best pvp comes 6 month after server open not before.

jealous that gloinz has a huge eco and u dont

[Nirgon]

Had 3 account which one. maybe guild names? COTCW,DM,CT and what the fuck does it matter now lolol

Your memory just seems way off, I'm trying to determine if you're making it up. What were the chars?

[Tamiah2011]

Your memory just seems way off, I'm trying to determine if you're making it up. What were the chars?

i had three accounts main being wizard,sk,cleric and Tamiah was 2 cleric to 50 so please..shh

[gloinz]

i had three accounts main being wizard,sk,cleric and Tamiah was 2 cleric to 50 so please..shh

no speaka english

[Amuk]

Think i said this the first day I played after patch and refused to play intill resistance were fixed, I had a sk resti everyone of my 49 lvl DDs and pet could not even root him.I have 148 int and still total restis.

CLEARLY THIS GUY KNOWS HIS SHIT GUYS.

[Nirgon]

i had three accounts main being wizard,sk,cleric and Tamiah was 2 cleric to 50 so please..shh

What server(s)?

[Tamiah2011]

What server(s)?

only one true pvp server RZ

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Root
Resist : Chance to Resist
75MR: 53%
100MR: 65%
125MR: 74%
150MR: 80%


Considering most monks will have like 80MR, having root land 1/2 the time makes the class completely useless. Root needs to resist way more.

This fascination with trying to force people to accept PvP where people do nothing but spam CC spells 40 times a fight has to end. It's not fun whatsoever.

People don't want to play a game where you instantly die anytime multiple CC spammers enter your clip plane. I'd rather watch TV than play such an unskilled, crapfest of killing perma immobilized targets.

If any CC spell is going to land, it needs to be stun since it affects every class equally. It's hilarious seeing all these biased casters complaining about stun in this thread but not root. That's exactly why stun should be the only crowd control spell to land, so the community can easily arrive on a consensus of how long and how often it should land. Too many biased casters ignoring root because it barely affects them. They can always shadowstep or gate.

[Crazerous]

you get your resists high enough and get buffed up, there going run out of mana before you die.My sk geared and buffed has 3450 hps and most resists over 110

LOl this guy is easily becoming more annoying than lovely

[Tamiah2011]

LOl this guy is easily becoming more annoying than lovely

why because im correct?

[Nirgon]

I mean you are going to hate me man but,

http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Tamiah

Nothing. I try some other names I popped off the top of my head:

http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kerrygetz
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Ever
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Graraige
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kaukaz
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Nilear
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Holysteed
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Baeandar
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Gwene
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Scumbog
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Nizno
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kaaq
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Wolfen
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Starbright
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Starbraight
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Hunsa
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Xizzt
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Xezzt
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Arrowheade


What guilds can you list for me? I'm not getting anything here. All of these players were active but you don't show up.

You know what shows up the same as Tamiah?
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=DunnowtfImTalkingAbo ut

I still don't understand people posting fulling believing themselves when they don't know what they're talking about. I'm sure there's some personal gain to be had, but players will stay if the server is as classic as possible. This is proven true with p99 blue and the reason I finally rolled there. Nothing sucks more than a low/empty pop server, esp a pvp one. If you want to gum it up with custom elements and troll the rules, have fun playing in a ghost town. You'll enjoy your momentary gains through trolling, but afterwards, when the server pop is less than 100... you'll for some reason still not understand why the population didn't hold up, or maybe you'll blame the staff.

[Tamiah2011]

I mean you are going to hate me man but,

http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Tamiah

Nothing. I try some other names I popped off the top of my head:

http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kerrygetz
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Ever
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Graraige
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kaukaz
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Nilear
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Holysteed
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Baeandar
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Gwene
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Scumbog
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Nizno
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kaaq
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Wolfen
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Starbright
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Starbraight
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Hunsa
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Xizzt
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Xezzt
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Arrowheade


What guilds can you list for me? I'm not getting anything here. All of these players were active but you don't show up.

You know what shows up the same as Tamiah?
http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=DunnowtfImTalkingAbo ut

I still don't understand people posting fulling believing themselves when they don't know what they're talking about. I'm sure there's some personal gain to be had, but players will stay if the server is as classic as possible. This is proven true with p99 blue and the reason I finally rolled there. Nothing sucks more than a low/empty pop server, esp a pvp one. If you want to gum it up with custom elements and troll the rules, have fun playing in a ghost town. You'll enjoy your momentary gains through trolling, but afterwards, when the server is a ghost town... you'll for some reason still not understand why the population didn't hold up, or maybe you'll blame the staff.

hate you for what not knowing what the hell your talking about?Maybe you can tell me the first head GM name in classic EQ 1999 , pretty common knowlege for a classic player to know?

[Nirgon]

I'm sure I could google up your answer, but it's not pertinent. I know the RZ senior GMs :P.

Yeln, Akkirus, Ozuri (super senior, stepped in for chaos in pvp)... anyway, the point is you didn't play on these servers or at that time, you cannot prove otherwise and are resorting to ridiculous trivia.

(Edit: http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/guildlist.php?guild_name=Keepers+of+the+Faith)

Prove otherwise rather than try to stump me with silly trivia. Anywho, if you haven't made it to most R99 forum browser blocklists, this should be a great incentive. Try another emu or game to troll sir.

[Tamiah2011]

I'm sure I could google up your answer, but it's not pertinent. I know the RZ senior GMs :P.

Yeln, Akkirus, Ozuri (super senior, stepped in for chaos in pvp)... anyway, the point is you didn't play on these servers or at that time, you cannot prove otherwise and are resorting to ridiculous trivia.

(Edit: http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/guildlist.php?guild_name=Keepers+of+the+Faith)

Prove otherwise rather than try to stump me with silly trivia. Anywho, if you haven't made it to most R99 forum browser blocklists, this should be a great incentive. Try another emu or game to troll sir.

I am sad to say them names are incorrect and show you know nothing...you just a young kid that wishes he played classic EQ..

[Nirgon]

only one true pvp server RZ

http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Tamiah

AKA

http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=DunnowtfImTalkingAbo ut


Other ppl telling you to stop posting: http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kringe

You're done son.

[Darwoth2]

wasn't yeln the one that got nabbed for giving cryoslik to his buds?

[Nirgon]

I was accosted by Yeln many times, one day he was gone. I remember him carrying a Blight Hammer of the Scourge despite being a GM :P.

[Jessie]

hate you for what not knowing what the hell your talking about?Maybe you can tell me the first head GM name in classic EQ 1999 , pretty common knowlege for a classic player to know?

Tamiah = Marathe

And who the fuck cares about GM's from 12 years ago? We are talking about resists on an EMU server.

[Chronoburn]

/grin ye

[Bkab]

i have been saying for weeks how big of a retard tamiah is. i'm glad everyone realizes this now.

[Nirgon]

Being a retard is one thing. I've met a few actually retarded people in my time, none of them tried to convince me of made up shit regarding EQ resists.

[Tombom]

loving how big Tam is blowing up in all threads.

[Bkab]

no one can believe that someone is actually that stupid. and that's saying something posting on these forums everyday.

[Tombom]

I'm betting big money he is euro and skipped english school, oooorrrr is a fantastic troll.

[mimixownzall]

Is stun more or less detrimental than root or snare in your eyes?

It's pretty detrimental. At least with root/snare you can still fight back and have a chance of dispelling it.

[mimixownzall]

Considering most monks will have like 80MR, having root land 1/2 the time makes the class completely useless. Root needs to resist way more.

This fascination with trying to force people to accept PvP where people do nothing but spam CC spells 40 times a fight has to end. It's not fun whatsoever.

People don't want to play a game where you instantly die anytime multiple CC spammers enter your clip plane. I'd rather watch TV than play such an unskilled, crapfest of killing perma immobilized targets.

If any CC spell is going to land, it needs to be stun since it affects every class equally. It's hilarious seeing all these biased casters complaining about stun in this thread but not root. That's exactly why stun should be the only crowd control spell to land, so the community can easily arrive on a consensus of how long and how often it should land. Too many biased casters ignoring root because it barely affects them. They can always shadowstep or gate.

Root hurts casters just as much. Being snared/rooted while an SK or Paladin smashes your face in = not fun.

[Melveny]

I'm going to roll a pally on launch

I am ok with it being that none of my stuns land, sucks. I hate the idea of having spells I can never use, but im not playing a paladin for that reason anyway.

I do like the idea of reducing the duration of the stun based off resists, and gives clerics / pallys / enchanters a little more viability, or we can all just play a ogre sk like 35% of the population will be.

[Tombom]

I'm going to roll a pally on launch

I am ok with it being that none of my stuns land, sucks. I hate the idea of having spells I can never use, but im not playing a paladin for that reason anyway.

I do like the idea of reducing the duration of the stun based off resists, and gives clerics / pallys / enchanters a little more viability, or we can all just play a ogre sk like 35% of the population will be.

http://i44.tinypic.com/wlc4zr.jpg

[Sprinkle]

35% SK 35% Druid rest magician/nec

[Vile]

I'm going to roll a pally on launch

I am ok with it being that none of my stuns land, sucks. I hate the idea of having spells I can never use, but im not playing a paladin for that reason anyway.

I do like the idea of reducing the duration of the stun based off resists, and gives clerics / pallys / enchanters a little more viability, or we can all just play a ogre sk like 35% of the population will be.

I am rolling a gnome rogue, fuck all yall spellz.

[DarthPeon]

hate you for what not knowing what the hell your talking about?Maybe you can tell me the first head GM name in classic EQ 1999 , pretty common knowlege for a classic player to know?

His name was Jeff Butler, what's your point? You failed to comprehend the issues people have brought up and that's why you are a troll responding with gibberish. Just about everyone who has commented on you is in agreement.

Stuns should be brought up in line with root/snare. Otherwise pally/cleric rape trains to glory.

Not that it matters - but check out Louis (50 cleric) currently soloing everyone nightly in ec.

[Tombom]

Louis down to tombom and crew last night, heard it here first

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

If stuns are gonna be on server, they should have a minimum duration of 1 second and use the following resists:

Resist Duration
------ -------
25MR 100%
50MR 75%
75MR 62.5%
100MR 50%
125MR 37.5%
150MR 25%
175MR 12.5%
200MR defaults to 1 second

[Null]

If stuns are gonna be on server, they should have a minimum duration of 1 second and use the following resists:

Resist Duration
------ -------
25MR 100%
50MR 75%
75MR 62.5%
100MR 50%
125MR 37.5%
150MR 25%
175MR 12.5%
200MR defaults to 1 second

So against targets with 200MR+ it becomes more efficient to use lower level stuns because you get zero benefit from a higher level spells duration?

[Tombom]

I don't think duration should be changed, just resist rate. If you lose because it was 1 second vs. 3 you were going to lose anyways.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

So against targets with 200MR+ it becomes more efficient to use lower level stuns because you get zero benefit from a higher level spells duration?

Sure, if you're a level 50 wizard. Then when you ding 51, the new one is probably better for use against all targets. :

Tishan's Discord, Wizard - Level 51

1 : Stun for 5.0* seconds (*some player-cast stuns are capped at 4 seconds)
2 : Decrease Hitpoints by 260
Mana: 130

[Null]

Sure, if you're a level 50 wizard. Then when you ding 51, the new one is probably better for use against all targets. :

Tishan's Discord, Wizard - Level 51

1 : Stun for 5.0* seconds (*some player-cast stuns are capped at 4 seconds)
2 : Decrease Hitpoints by 260
Mana: 130

Sure for Wizards, but how about Paladins and Clerics?

[Lovely]

There is a few people crying about stuns but I don't see any proof for their crying. I've tested my two stuns a lot and they are resisting 24/7, does some other stuns have a -MR check or what? If you read the description on the Wizard stuns then it says 5 seconds and 10 second duration and yet they only last 1-1.5 sec and 2-2.5 sec in PVP. What's the problem exactly with other stuns? I've asked about it before but no one can answer beside that "STUNS LANDS TO MUCH"

[Nirgon]

I think Null posted a parse of casting a 1000 stuns. I wouldn't consider him a nobody.

I don't see why we can't go with classic stun/root/snare rates. Lot of arm chair makers up of shit in here.

[juicedsixfo]

Got hit for 815 by two ice comets in a row last night, with 96 MR. Hot damn! That felt good.

[Lovely]

Oh I missed that post.

Looks fine to me. All regular stuns last so damn short I don't think their duration should be lowered when you have higher MR. Not like any of them beside Whirl last more then 2-3 seconds at most, rite? Which is like no time at all in EQ.

[Nirgon]

Whirl shouldn't land and rarely even still on base MR, stuns really shouldn't on higher than like 40mr.

[Greenkrak]

Got hit for 815 by two ice comets in a row last night, with 96 MR. Hot damn! That felt good.


ummmm



almost as dum as the ranger with 60 FR complaining to me that IceComet shuld never do so much damage with his uber resists.....

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Sure for Wizards, but how about Paladins and Clerics?

Then they load whatever stun is appropriate for whatever MR target they're casting against. If they're grouped, they might use the higher level stun to cast against malo'd/tashed targets. Both spells would still be useful.

You keep overlooking the fact that MR debuffs exist. The resist system needs to be designed around forcing people to use debuff spells to get any CC to land instead of not even bothering. It's dumb when every class in the game is landing CC spells under all conditions.

Magic resist debuff spells should get the 50% PvP server bonus and have CC spells resist much easier against non-debuffed opponents. Tash is 33 x 1.5 under this condition, which is a shit ton.

I'm not even going to bother playing on this server if the crowd control spells exceed anything more than the following:

- Crowd control resist rate capped at 90% for snare and root (not stun), and the cap is achieved by melees wearing only gear and no resist buffs, NOT casters self buffed with MR spells.

MR Resist Rate
-----------------
125 90% capped
100 75
75 50
50 25
25 0%

Let's say you hit the 90% resist rate at 125MR, then get tashed for 33x1.5 (with 50% PvP server debuff bonus). You now only resist 50% of snares and roots. This gives purpose to classes such as enchanters without screwing up the balance of the entire game by having CC spam work against non-debuffed people. Since level 60 shaman malo is 40x1.5, this effectively makes any magic resist up to 185 useful. I don't care if anything over 185MR is redundant, it's necessary for game balance for it to be that way. Few people will even break that in the first place.

[Nirgon]

Or, again, maybe stuns didn't work on live and didn't load them and they should be the same way here?

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Or, again, maybe stuns didn't work on live and didn't load them and they should be the same way here?

I agree that we should use EQ live resists but Null is obsessed with implementing some custom system, so I posted the maximum amount of customization that I would deal with before I refuse to play on this server.

[Lazortag]

I'm not even going to bother playing on this server if ...

OH NO, ANYTHING BUT THAT

[Null]

I'm not even going to bother playing on this server if the crowd control spells exceed anything more than the following:

- Crowd control resist rate capped at 90% for snare and root (not stun), and the cap is achieved by melees wearing only gear and no resist buffs, NOT casters self buffed with MR spells.


Snare
150MR : 86%
175MR : 90%
200MR : 93%

Root
150MR : 80%
175MR : 85%
200MR : 88%

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7751891/warrior_resist.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7751891/rogue_resist.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7751891/monk_test.jpg

So your feedback is increase the default chance to land a snare/root spell to 10% (up from 5%) and move up snare and root resist by ~2% on average?

Why didn't you just say so wermacht.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/197/580/Z3LND.gif

[Nirgon]

80% at 150mr is still too much big null, unless it has a greatly lessened duration. Stuns shouldn't be partials, just all or nothing.

I gotta say for all the people that come seeking classic EQ pvp, they sure want all kinds of changes made. Wtfs.

[Null]

80% at 150mr is still too much big null, unless it has a greatly lessened duration. Stuns shouldn't be partials, just all or nothing.


Like perhaps from 10 minutes to 30 seconds?

[Nirgon]

Or has to pass the same resist check every so often.

And yes if snare lands it should just hold unless dispelled.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

So your feedback is increase the default chance to land a snare/root spell to 10% (up from 5%) and move up snare and root resist by ~2% on average?

Null stop cooking the books, Jesus Christ.

You have the best item in the game in every slot. You even have Plane of Sky quest items listed. So anywhere from 0-1% of the player base will have all those. You can't design a system around 0-1% of the player base. That's completely illogical and I don't consider it a valid example. One of the classes you posted is also a warrior, who receive +25MR bonus.

You could box multiple accounts on VZTZ so items were much easier to get. It only took two people boxing 4 characters to get a Tranix crown. It would probably take like 6 unboxed, level 50's to kill Tranix on EQ live, then all 6 of you have to roll on it.

Probably 1% of the server had that item on Sullon Zek pre-Luclin. NPC's were much easier to kill on VZTZ too, I tanked Innoruk from 80% to 0% while playing a level 50 ranger. It's hard even making an XP group on a real PvP server, let alone a Tranix or planes raid.

So yea, I don't consider a Christmas list of the best items in the game in every slot a valid example. An unbuffed melee in normal gear is a real example and the numbers are as follows:

On the monk, a legit MR value is 103MR : after Removing Tranix crown, replacing sky quest mask with lizardskin mask, removing sky quest shoulder wraps, removing Rakusha cloak, removing Cazic Thule loot bile choker. And that assumes 14MR Jacinth rings are actually common and you're wearing an Advisor Robe instead of Robe of the Lost Circle. If Jacinth rings aren't common, then it's 75. So anywhere from 75 for normal people to 123 for people with Jacinth rings + Tranix Crown and then your FR and CR are both like 25 STILL.

Crowd control resists should be based around 100-125MR, NOT sky quest items.


Like perhaps from 10 minutes to 30 seconds?

30 second snares with 65-74% resist rate against 100 to 125MR is a free kill. Calling that balanced is a joke. I would never play on a server like that. Raising your magic resist that high even leaves your FR/CR at like 25-35 so every ice comet lands for full damage too.

This is a wonderful system if your idea of balance is making naked casters viable and fully geared melees non-viable.

[Silikten]

If you drop every one of those MR/% stats by -40. It would be perfect imo.

110mr = 86%. etc, etc.

[Null]

Null stop cooking the books, Jesus Christ.

and some more crap taking my post way too seriously.

I just really want you to play on the server, so I took your poorly worded opening (that you went back and edited out) as a chance to keep you from rage-quitting the server before it is even released.

[Null]

If you drop every one of those MR/% stats by -40. It would be perfect imo.

110mr = 86%. etc, etc.

On my home server right now 120 is the new 140, it feels good bro.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

What's REALLY funny is that Null's dream monk items, which NOBODY will have, leaves his monk with 30PR, 30DR, 59FR, 40cold, and 1275 HP

One single Ice comet, which is going to hit for full every time against that, does 70% of your entire hp bar.

One single ebolt does 89% of your HP bar.

Stop trying to make casters paradise. Is it TOO MUCH TO ASK that people who almost die from ONE SINGLE SPELL resist crowd control spells at least 90% of the time???

Even if you resisted 100% of crowd control spells, it's STILL caster's paradise. They don't need MORE WELFARE crap on top of their already enormous damage.

And NO, the answer is not to lower damage and leave crowd control spam in. Casters need high damage spells to be viable in 30vs30 fights and melee need at least 90% resistance to crowd control to be worth playing at all.

The maximum amount of crowd control I will play with is having crowd control resist capped at 90% resist rate, and reaching that level against 125MR.

If you want to land crowd control spells, you should have to debuff the person with tash or malo first.

Debuff spells were a big factor on real PvP servers and were basically redundant on VZTZ. Give them the 50% PvP server debuff bonus if you want, I don't care.

[Pudge]

resists just need to be scaled by era. classic gear has less resists.. so shit should be a little easier to resist. kunark has better gear, so more resists should be necessary to resist the same spell. and velious has even better resist gear, so.. even higher resists required

and yea we shouldn't assume everyone will be running around with max resists, because it would take quite some time for everyone to camp it all

[Silikten]

On my home server right now 120 is the new 140, it feels good bro.

Does that mean currently on r99?

[Null]

Does that mean currently on r99?

No that means on the server I test with at home.

[Silikten]

Oh, alright. Does that have any bearing on r99? As in, will r99 be lowered to 120 as your server is?

[Null]

Oh, alright. Does that have any bearing on r99? As in, will r99 be lowered to 120 as your server is?

more than likely yes

[Pudge]

why is snare harder to land than root?

they both last the same amount of time yes? snare at least lets you move around a bit.

[Null]

why is snare harder to land than root?

they both last the same amount of time yes? snare at least lets you move around a bit.

Root breaks on damage.

[Dfn]

Pudge: Are you suggesting the resist system be modified in each expansion? As people camp gear the resist requirements should increase?

Also you nerds to keep in mind these calculations and samples do not include Resist Magic, GMR, or bard songs. In your dream 30v30 zerg scenario I guarantee you that your melee will have Resist-GMR and/or bard song.

NukeAfrica: Since you conveniently left this out, I thought I should mention it. You cannot and should not balance resists around an UNBUFFED monk. Plate and chain both have access to much more easy to get resist gear than monks. Balancing it around monks just creates another scenario where War/SK/Pal/etc are immune to CC two weeks after dinging 50. Furthermore, in these 30v30 zerg scenarios melee will have resist-group resist magic and potentially bard songs. Even in small group combat melee are going to be nearly cc immune a month into the server. You don't like being rooted and solo'd outdoors by a caster? Don't fucking go outdoors without friends.

MR neck, bracers, mithril arms and legs, mr earrings, bs mantle, maybe dwarven tunic, split paw mask, maybe tranix crown, and diamond/jac rings - DONE - CC immune without buffs.

I like the current resist setup Null, and I'm sure I'll probably like this potential change to MR. These people that claim noone will ever have buffs are delusional though. They have to be included in balance discussions because they are not nearly as uncommon as people make it out to be. I mean hell, like a third of the classes in the game can buff MR to some extent. In these group PvP scenarios people will have MR buffs. If a monk is bitching about not being able to fight casters outdoors solo in classic... well, he isn't worth listening to because he's a giant fucking moron.

[Pudge]

Root breaks on damage.

ah. i forgot about that.

Pudge: Are you suggesting the resist system be modified in each expansion? As people camp gear the resist requirements should increase?

yes. especially in velious resists can get insane

[Smedy]

Praise null jesus, and fuck graym, he was super bad on live, and it's showing here to.

The guy was in the biggest guild, suddenly when they started to get contested for raid shit, he INSTA-QUIT, it's like "OK IM OUT" , that fucker was a bluebie dogs

I will traumatise his face with root if i see him!

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Also you nerds to keep in mind these calculations and samples do not include Resist Magic, GMR, or bard songs.

Not all classes get resist buffs and EQ live PvP was not a forced grouping game. There's 0 reason to assume everyone has those buffs 24/7. In fact, the vast majority of people I saw PvP'ing on Sullon Zek during Velious era were soloing or duoing whether they were a melee or caster.



You don't like being rooted and solo'd outdoors by a caster? Don't fucking go outdoors without friends.

Oh really? Last time I checked, that's not how EQ live PvP worked at all. You don't get to alter the game and make soloing go from viable to impossible just because you think it would be cool idea. Fuck off with that shit. People are here to play normal EQ, not your horribly balanced version of it.


NukeAfrica: Since you conveniently left this out, I thought I should mention it. You cannot and should not balance resists around an UNBUFFED monk.

No, actually, crowd control resists were balanced fine on EQ live. You don't get to say "I think CC spells should land" then provide no justification for it. And guess what? When one ice comet does 70% of a monk's HP bar, and one ebolt does 89%, there is no fucking justification for it. It's casters paradise even if CC spells resist 100% of the time.

Man up and stop being a douchebag trying to get your class upgraded when it's already powerful enough. I used to kill planes geared warriors with my naked shaman mule on VZTZ, did the same thing with a naked druid against rogues. If CC didn't land at all, I still could have done the same thing. VZTZ PvP was a complete joke, that's why I'm not playing on this server if it's anywhere similar.

I remember one time, my naked shaman mule was standing in Rivervale and I tabbed over and see Lethdar attacking me with his troll SK named Allah that has the best items in the game. I was deleveled and didn't even have ebolt and he STILL couldn't kill me. It basically ended in a draw and I'm naked with no gear on. He did manage to knock me unconscious with HT, but I stood back up and recovered.

I repeat, VZTZ PvP was terrible, horribly unbalanced, and worse than EQ live in every way. The game mechanics were a complete clown fest. I refuse to play on a server where it's easier to gank people with a naked caster than a melee with the best items in the game.

This DFN guy keeps talking about "grouping", he's clearly one of those idiots that thinks "PvP" is walking around in a giant group of people and attacking solo players and wants the game to be as easy as possible for him to get free, welfare kills.

Even Lumie, who is mentally insane, was smart enough to know it's not worth playing on another VZTZ rehash. He posted he's not playing with VZTZ crowd control resists either. That halfling named Alecta in Holocaust also quit due to it. It will drive off lots of people. I know at least 5 people who won't play due to it alone.

[Lovely]

With the ways resists keep getting stronger and stronger I should be able to reach godmode status within 2-3 weeks of the launch.

Nukeafrica I don't think anyone gives a flying fuck if you play or not. Also you keep crying about how much damage Ice comets and Ebolts do. How fucking bad of a player are you? If you can't avoid 6+ second spells then you need to step up your game instead of crying like a little bitch. You sound like a bitch that will quit the second something goes against you. Just the prey I like, mark my words. I will make your Red99 experience a living hell and I'm gonna enjoy your tears.

Anyway you have to balance the resist system around buffs and bard songs as well Null. Otherwise people will run around in godmode when they have these buffs.

The difference between 120 and like 200 shouldn't be big at all if the numbers are that high at 120 MR.

[Lovely]

Also saying that people should have to Tash/Malo someone to be able to CC them is beyond retarded. The odds of people having access to resist buffs in PVP is like 90%+ especially for melee. No fkin melee runs around alone without a duo partner or a group.

But people having access to tash/malo on the other hand is way way lower and it's something you have to land in the fight, then after you land that you gotta try to hit the CC spells as well. Just simply running away prevents both of those things..

But personally I don't rly care to much if CC spells hit good or bad at 100-130 MR. But for the love of god please please don't raise the % values to much from 100-130 to like 150-200+ cause then the groups with bards will be totally unkillable just like it's been in the past. They already have advantage enough with the superior things a Bard bring like speed, cc, resists etc. Just don't make them godmode... Cause anyone will reach 150-200+ with a buffs/bard.

Like the serverwide Test of Tactics 18v18, all 3 groups in each team had a Bard, all groups had access to malo/tash and every debuff in the game. Yet it was almost impossible to kill anyone even if you had a fkin 18 man assist train on 1 guy with all debuffs. Most fights was around 20 minutes inside the Arena and there was between 0 to 3 deaths on average in those 20 minutes. The pvp was basically 36 people running around in circles in godmode status. So if the 18 best people on the server with access to every spell and debuff barely can kill 1 guy. Imagine how unkillable a group of 6 with a bard with decent gear will be here if resists get out of hand like they always have before.

This is also what the big guilds want cause they are mostly made of zergs and baddies who rely on being in godmode status to kill anyone.

[Tamiah2011]

Or has to pass the same resist check every so often.

And yes if snare lands it should just hold unless dispelled.

Null, why you evening listening to this child he has ZERO pvp exp. lolol You doing a great job NUll screw this scrub..

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

With the ways resists keep getting stronger and stronger I should be able to reach godmode status within 2-3 weeks of the launch.

Oh really? Because if you resist crowd control spells but then get almost 1 shot killed by ice comet, that's God mode? That's sure news to me. Just stop posting now ya jackass. Crowd control spells resisted on EQ live because the devs were smarter than you are

"God mode" would be if you can easily kill an infinite number of people, not being able to run away from a zerg of idiots attempting to chain CC spam you for a free kill, while casting nukes that do 70% of your HP bar, and land for full every time.

That's not Everquest, that's Idiotquest. I'm not playing that bullshit. All the actual good players from EQ live that I've talked to feel the exact same way as me about CC spells. From Crazycloud, to Darwoth, to everyone in between.

It's always these nobodies like Lovely that keep telling Null how great an idea this is, while all the actual people with any PvP credentials from EQ live tell how him awful it is. Everyone knows it's not balanced unless your goal is to make a "forced zerging" server and make it impossible to solo.



Anyway you have to balance the resist system around buffs and bard songs as well Null. Otherwise people will run around in godmode when they have these buffs.

You say the stupidest shit.

First of all, EQ live was not a forced grouping game. The majority of people I saw on Sullon Zek solo PvP'd. If you remove the ability to solo, it's not Everquest, period. We're not here to play Lovely's stupid, unbalanced version of EQ.

Second of all, Null put the best item in every slot for a monk and only had 40CR/59FR. Calling getting nuked for maximum, 900 damage by every ice comet cast on you "God mode" just makes you look more stupid than words can imagine.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Also saying that people should have to Tash/Malo someone to be able to CC them is beyond retarded. The odds of people having access to resist buffs in PVP is like 90%+ especially for melee. No fkin melee runs around alone without a duo partner or a group.

Another idiotic quote from someone who's never played on a PvP server. Probably the majority of people I saw on Sullon Zek, including myself, solo PvP'd during Velious era. Occasionally you saw caster duos like Dharma and Greg or 2 Darkenbanes but that's it.

Your statement about everyone being "perma-grouped" was completely fictional and made up. Don't post about what PvP balance is when you've never even played on a PvP server. I'm not playing on some bullshit "forced grouping" or "forced zerging" server when soloing is viable in real EQ.


Like the serverwide Test of Tactics 18v18, all 3 groups in each team had a Bard, all groups had access to malo/tash and every debuff in the game. Yet it was almost impossible to kill anyone

Here you go with your stupid Test of Tactics story again. Guess what? I was in Test of Tactics too, you're not special. I also played on an actual PvP server, you didn't.

On a real, pre-PoP, PvP server, not the imaginary server in your head, the amount of bards is so low, that designing the entire resist system specificaly around bards is about the dumbest thing you can possibly do.

There was only maybe 2 level 60 bards on the entire evil team pre-luclin (Rodlase and Pino) and like 1 on neuts (Agrul). I don't think the entire good team even had a bard except level 5 Fansy.

Trying to claim bards are some enormous PvP factor on a pre-luclin PvP server just makes you look more stupid than words can describe. Even if they show up, WHO CARES, Null already made the direct damage system so nukes always land on them.

I'm tired of seeing all these stupid changes to destroy PvP solely in the name of bards, a class that maybe 1% of the population or less plays.

[Nirgon]

Root breaks on damage.

Rak cloaks were super rare etc, they have a point. I think 85/90 or so should be the new 140 for root/snare/stun.

What reassures me is you're able to tweak these numbers and make quick and solid parses to verify your changes.


Null, why you evening listening to this child he has ZERO pvp exp. lolol You doing a great job NUll screw this scrub..

You can't speak English and are retarded. We've been over who played on early RZ and who didn't, we have proof. Go back to drooling in a cup in whatever country you're from.


PS: If we're able to prove this guy is from an English speaking country can we ban him? Has to be a troll.

[Lovely]

You don't seem to understand a single thing I'm saying so it's no point to argue with you. Just because Bards aren't the most played class doesn't mean you can ignore them. Trust me there will be loads of bards due to the fact that everyone knows how powerful they are right now. This is not EQ PVP from 10 years ago when no one had a clue .This is EQ pvp in 2011.

I'm not saying you should balance PVP around BUFFS AND BARDS, but it should be a factor in the decisions you make when you tweak a resist system. Therefor the difference between a MR of 100-120 to 150-200+ shouldn't be that huge or things will get out of control fast. Just adding 1 class into a group shouldn't turn your group from resisting CC 50% to 95%. That is pure unbalance. You, Darwoth and whoever the other randoms are you mentioned just want a system where you can roll in with 6 ppl and be immune to all CC to be able to fight a zerg for example. Darwoth even said so himself in PM's to me. He want a system where a group of a few people can actually fight a huge zerg due to them all being immune to all CC.

You can also talk about the old days all you want but it got nothing to do with this server. On this server people are coming prepared. Most people are rolling with a guild or a big group of friends compared to back in the day when 95%+ of all players just started alone on a PVP server. You're delusional if you really think most people will run around alone on this server. I haven't found a single player yet on beta out of like 300+ that's rolling into this server all alone without a guild or several friends.


Crowd control spells resisted on EQ live because the devs were smarter than you are

This is the most funny thing of all. If you really think Developers spent much time or thoughts on balancing PVP back in the days then you're even more delusional then I thought. It's a fact that they didn't give a flying fuck about PVP servers since it's always been like 0-2% at most of the whole Everquest population. Balancing PVP was probably one the last things they had in back of their minds when patching the game. I don't even know. But I bet it took them over a year, if not years to do some proper patches for PVP if they even made any at all?

[Nirgon]

Make it like it was imo, if something's so powerful, play it. You're right, you don't have to be clueless like 12 years ago.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Just adding 1 class into a group shouldn't turn your group from resisting CC 50% to 95%.

It didn't, you already resisted CC spells without a bard. Because EQ is not a forced grouping game and soloing is unviable if you let zergers spam CC spells on solo players for free kills.


That is pure unbalance. You, Darwoth and whoever the other randoms are you mentioned just want a system where you can roll in with 6 ppl and be immune to all CC to be able to fight a zerg for example

No, what I want is a system where if I'm walking around solo, I don't automatically die just because a group of zergers enters my clip plane all facerolling their keyboard on the snare/stun/root buttons over and over.

If soloing isn't viable, it's not an Everquest emulator server, the end.

If I wanted a forced grouping game, I would play DAoC. DAoC has far superior PvP if you want forced grouping/forced zerging.



This is the most funny thing of all. If you really think Developers spent much time or thoughts on balancing PVP back in the days then you're even more delusional then I thought.

During Kunark, EQ PvP was more balanced than most other PvP games that have ever come out. People are here for that version of EQ, not poorly balanced Lovely or Null EQ.

[Nirgon]

Root just wasn't something you used on things other than pets after like lvl 40, maybe even 30.

A different example:
The mage epic pet was notoriously hard to root and might be one of the most ridiculous things indoors. Am I going to post about nerfing it? No. If it's already strong but too easy to root, yeah, I'm going to post that it needs to be harder to root. People are going to go wild about something like that, tell me its OP and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Whateva.

[Dfn]

Not all classes get resist buffs and EQ live PvP was not a forced grouping game. There's 0 reason to assume everyone has those buffs 24/7. In fact, the vast majority of people I saw PvP'ing on Sullon Zek during Velious era were soloing or duoing whether they were a melee or caster.

You're right. Only 1/3 of the classes can buff MR on others. And a lot of the remaining can buff it self-only. You don't have to assume they have the buff 24/7 either. You do have to account for the buffs instead of just pretending they don't exist.


Oh really? Last time I checked, that's not how EQ live PvP worked at all. You don't get to alter the game and make soloing go from viable to impossible just because you think it would be cool idea. Fuck off with that shit. People are here to play normal EQ, not your horribly balanced version of it.

What the fuck are you talking about? Monks were never viable solo PKs in classic. Neither were warriors. Or rogues. And rangers and paladins were pretty damn low on the totem pole as well.

In fact, the closest thing you could get to "solo'ing" was sitting at the entrance of a dungeon and attacking people when they zoned in - and promptly running around a corner when they tried to cast. You have no burst damage. You have no escape mechanism. You have no movement speed. And you want to be a viable outdoors solo pk? While you're at it, ask for those VZTZ tweaks that made warriors crippling blow insta gib everyone.



No, actually, crowd control resists were balanced fine on EQ live. You don't get to say "I think CC spells should land" then provide no justification for it. And guess what? When one ice comet does 70% of a monk's HP bar, and one ebolt does 89%, there is no fucking justification for it. It's casters paradise even if CC spells resist 100% of the time.

Oh, ice comet and ebolt only affect monks? -1 to reasoning.

Ice Comet and EBolt equally affects everyone - yes, even other wizards will be nearly one shot by an ebolt. But hey, guess what, it was like that on live. It's pretty obvious you never played classic EQ - you're wanting to just jump into this luclin era bullshit where any random retard can be completely immune to all spells just by reaching level 50 and buying a few tradeable pieces. That's not how the game worked in classic though.

Man up and stop being a douchebag trying to get your class upgraded when it's already powerful enough. I used to kill planes geared warriors with my naked shaman mule on VZTZ, did the same thing with a naked druid against rogues. If CC didn't land at all, I still could have done the same thing. VZTZ PvP was a complete joke, that's why I'm not playing on this server if it's anywhere similar.

My class? Do you know what class I'm playing? Because I haven't even decided yet. You keep talking as if the resist system on VZTZ made it a caster heaven, but it's pretty obvious you never played because of how much damage melee's actually did in PvP. Sure, casters could compete - but they should rape in classic. Melee should be catching up in Kunark.

You, on the other hand, are arguing for monks and rogues to be self-sufficient immune to CC pks by the time they hit 50. Lol?

But since we're talking about classes. Any guess what class you're going to play?

-Bitches about caster damage, check.
-Bitches about not being completely immune to CC 3 weeks into the game, check.
-Bitches about snare, blind, whirl, root, earth pet root, etc EVER landing at 50, check.
-Cries about caster's being overpowered on VZTZ, check.

Actually I have no idea. I would say a masochist rogue but since you're crying about melee's being underpowered on VZTZ that would only make sense if you were using two splintering clubs or some shit on a rogue.


I remember one time, my naked shaman mule was standing in Rivervale and I tabbed over and see Lethdar attacking me with his troll SK named Allah that has the best items in the game. I was deleveled and didn't even have ebolt and he STILL couldn't kill me. It basically ended in a draw and I'm naked with no gear on. He did manage to knock me unconscious with HT, but I stood back up and recovered.

I repeat, VZTZ PvP was terrible, horribly unbalanced, and worse than EQ live in every way. The game mechanics were a complete clown fest. I refuse to play on a server where it's easier to gank people with a naked caster than a melee with the best items in the game.

Well, you're obviously terrible and have no concept of classic EQ or VZTZ. Being able to land roots on VZTZ didn't make it a caster server by any stretch of the imagination.

I remember one time Rexx double crippling blowed me for like 1800 damage. Good thing all these memories matter in balancing a server trying to emulate live classic!

This DFN guy keeps talking about "grouping", he's clearly one of those idiots that thinks "PvP" is walking around in a giant group of people and attacking solo players and wants the game to be as easy as possible for him to get free, welfare kills.

My bad. I forgot, monks and rogues are supposed to be self-sufficient solo PKs starting at birth. Are you retarded? Another terrible talking on the forums because he's just a walking screenshot in game....


Even Lumie, who is mentally insane, was smart enough to know it's not worth playing on another VZTZ rehash. He posted he's not playing with VZTZ crowd control resists either. That halfling named Alecta in Holocaust also quit due to it. It will drive off lots of people. I know at least 5 people who won't play due to it alone.

There's going to be people not playing for many different reasons. Quoting Lumie only hurts what little credibility you had left.

Now, I don't disagree with you that melee should be nearly CC immune - but your timetable is way fucked up out of whack. This is something melee's should be striving to reach in Kunark. Don't like it? Find a group.

[Nirgon]

Still don't see why any of this is debatable or we're trying to consider "balance" in all this. We came for classic pvp, that's what we should have.

[Rallyd]

I read this shit and the only thing that comes to mind is, how many of you played on Sullon Zek.. Cuz claiming to be a professional pvper when coming from Sullon Zek is like claiming to be an olympic gold medalist from the special olympics.. that server was a joke, if you're not from RZ/VZ/TZ stfu.

95% resistance to snare/root/stun IE the cripplers, in my experience on RZ, wasn't even possible, the system null has in place now is good, 85% at 150 MR sounds about right. That's still a shot in the dark for you to actually get rooted. And those of us who will be carrying around pocket bards can expect to not ever get hit by CC, and if we do.. it's classic, learn to pell.

[Nirgon]

I just dont think 1 in 5 on a root is a good thing.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

95% resistance to snare/root/stun IE the cripplers, in my experience on RZ, wasn't even possible

These threads are always zerged by noobs that don't know what they're talking about. Here's a safehouse thread where someone parsed 87% resistance to CC spells with 150MR AFTER magic resist was changed during LUCLIN. Obviously CC spells resisted even more before this change:

www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7879

Making a classic EQ server have CC spells land EASIER than LUCLIN era when VT gear was available is absolutely, beyond retarded.

[Aesop]

I'll spam root or snare all day with those odds. Motherfuckers spammed that shit on live when it was a 1/20 chance of it landing.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

I'll spam root or snare all day with those odds. Motherfuckers spammed that shit on live when it was a 1/20 chance of it landing.

^Yes, it's like some primitive, mongoloid version of PvP. Exact same strategy used for every single fight. I have no interest in playing that.

Altergate was the same way and everybody hated it there too. I think every single player on the forum posted against it. I played a necro and discovered it was more viable to spam root people while pet attacked them then actually cast any dot spells. It was pathetic.

Making CC resist rate "slightly higher" than Altergate doesn't cut it, it's still the same lame ass PvP all over again just like every EMU server released so far.

It has to resist at least 90% of the time against decently geared melees for the server not to be a CC spam, mongoloid fest.

[Aesop]

150 MR is a pretty lolly place though seriously. You idiots really underestimate 1v1, I mean yes root should land pretty well but it's so gamechanging when it does that it should be on a different table. Not even using a wizard's ice comet, let's talk druids who got snare, heal, (hide), thorns, SoW etc. etc. or a mage with DS, pet, enchanters with tash/pell/mez, root stun, necro's with snare, pet root lifetap, clerics, shamans .... root is a gamechanger, snare is a gamechanger, mez is a gamechanger, things like disempower, weaken etc. were pretty cool on live as a snare that isn't a snare.

Anyhow Null is moving in the right direction, but the resist rates are too common, a 1/20 chance at 120 seems reasonable. We're looking for a casual / semi casual population here not some stupid hardcore fully buffed 24/7 crew.

[Dfn]

Anyhow Null is moving in the right direction, but the resist rates are too common, a 1/20 chance at 120 seems reasonable. We're looking for a casual / semi casual population here not some stupid hardcore fully buffed 24/7 crew.

95% resist for a dwarf paladin with self buff mr and bloodstained mantle, dwarven tunic, skull shape barbute, 2 mr bracers, mr neck, and 20 random mr from rings, legs, arms, back, ears, whatever.

heck, a naked 50 warrior with grm will be almost immune lol.

perspective.

root doesn't even last long when it lands and it can be dispelled. stuns and blind should have a higher resist rate than roots simply because they completely disable you. 1/20 on stuns/blind at 120 mr sounds reasonable. the allowance for root should be a little higher simply because of how easy it breaks and it's going to be dispelled a lot anyways.

people immune to cc 3 days after hitting 50 self buffed, naked with buffs, or whatever. who needs planar gear, bards, kunark gear, velious gear, or anything else when you can be immune to spells a few hours after dinging 50!

i for one like what null has in place at the moment. im going to play regardless of how the system is implemented. if you dont like it dont play, these kids need to stop whining about not playing if the system isnt catered to their exact desire. change your tampon, noone cares

[Lovely]

^Yes, it's like some primitive, mongoloid version of PvP. Exact same strategy used for every single fight. I have no interest in playing that.

Altergate was the same way and everybody hated it there too. I think every single player on the forum posted against it. I played a necro and discovered it was more viable to spam root people while pet attacked them then actually cast any dot spells. It was pathetic.

Making CC resist rate "slightly higher" than Altergate doesn't cut it, it's still the same lame ass PvP all over again just like every EMU server released so far.

It has to resist at least 90% of the time against decently geared melees for the server not to be a CC spam, mongoloid fest.

Wow I've never read so much bullshit in my life. LOL more viable to spam root as a Necro HAHAHAHAHHA wow. Lets have a fight, you spam root and I nuke.

You idiots realize you can easily dispell root and snares as any class rite? It feels you the two of you never played Everquest before in your life or more likely are two baddies who keyboard turn and takes 5 seconds to react to a root/snare. Also the arguments that people on these forums want a system where you have godmode vs Snares/root are totally false as well. The latest poll had over 60%+ voting for the current system compared to a Classic system oh and during that vote snares and roots almost hit like 40-50% at 140 MR, so it seems people actually want a system where spells beside nukes actually work. I understand that unskilled scrubs want a system where every class only got 1-2 spells that they can use but for the players who actually are able to use more keys enjoy having utility spells and CC working.

The lamest possible EQ PVP is when you can group 1 bard and then run around for all eternity and never be scared of dying. You could even run into 30 people and poke on them a little and run out without a scratch in the way EQ worked in the past and it's complete bullshit and unbalanced and makes for awful PVP. The funny fact is that I don't really use CC when I pvp and it would only harm myself if it worked. But damn I actually enjoy some challenge and I don't want a dumbed down system where I can escape easily anytime no matter how many people are on me. It's already easy enough with the current system. At the PVP event I had 10+ people on me several times and I wasn't even close to dying once and I would have been even more safe in a Classic system bullshit system.

[juicedsixfo]

At the PVP event I had 10+ people on me several times and I wasn't even close to dying once.

God damn you are a giant troll. My Warrior would literally take you one vs one, and here you are talking about taking on ten versus one, SEVERAL times - AND NEVER BEING CLOSE TO DYING. We're you healing yourself as a Wizard?


Seriously, you are the worst. If one dev was ever trolled in to listening to you, shame on them. I can't wait for you to /petition an enchanter for mezzing you, or /petitioning a druid for rooting you and running out of range and healing, or basically anything that doesn't work in your fucking favor.

You are literally the worst.

[Lovely]

God damn you are a giant troll. My Warrior would literally take you one vs one, and here you are talking about taking on ten versus one, SEVERAL times - AND NEVER BEING CLOSE TO DYING. We're you healing yourself as a Wizard?


Seriously, you are the worst. If one dev was ever trolled in to listening to you, shame on them. I can't wait for you to /petition an enchanter for mezzing you, or /petitioning a druid for rooting you and running out of range and healing, or basically anything that doesn't work in your fucking favor.

You are literally the worst.

ROFL. The only troll here seems to be you. Seems you got 0 understanding of what a Wizard can do in an open outdoor PVP zone. Escaping 10 people chasing you is cake even if they got a Bard and track. Maybe not for a scrub like you but for capable players.

SINCE you challenged me im ready to log on anytime and fight your Warrior in a 1v1 LOL. If get my hp to half as a Warrior in an outdoor zone I wont make a post in this forum for a month. Im ready anytime just log on and ill be there

[Lovely]

LOL you're the guy that posted this a few days ago..

Got hit for 815 by two ice comets in a row last night, with 96 MR. Hot damn! That felt good.

HAHA I rest my case. 100 bucks that you keyboard turn and that i could kill you using my staff only

[juicedsixfo]

Yes, we all you know you can spam Yonder over and over out in South Karana- welcome to being a Wizard. I'd have no problem smashing you as a Warrior, I wouldn't even need my SK or Shaman (or any class really). My War has 3.3K hp. Meet me in Lguk, Lord Room. You'd go halfway oom before I ate through your diamondskin.


Enjoy your times on beta being a solo "pvp"er.

[juicedsixfo]

By the way that quote was on my Shaman account with no gear. My warrior has 175mr, 155 cr buffed. I'll be in Lower Guk.

[juicedsixfo]

I will literally eat your face Lovely.

[Lovely]

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/lfQ95238.jpg

I'm here waiting bro, come at me anytime. Guk is empty FYI

[DarthPeon]

Not all classes get resist buffs and EQ live PvP was not a forced grouping game. There's 0 reason to assume everyone has those buffs 24/7. In fact, the vast majority of people I saw PvP'ing on Sullon Zek during Velious era were soloing or duoing whether they were a melee or caster.

Your perspective is flawed for several reasons. EQ was designed as a forced grouping game and Brad Mcquaid's vocal stance on the issue was no secret.

Since everquest was designed back then as a pve game first and foremost with the pvp servers as an added bonus for variety it would be unwise to think that solo pvp would be as viable as group pvp. Just as pve encounters are designed to be best dealt with the efficient use of group mechanics, by extension pvp encounters are as well in classic everquest when you combine multiple class abilities and spells working together. Just because you solo pvped and the cesspool that was Sullon Zek attracted that mindset does not mean we should not fix the inherent flaws group pvp produces with increased resists and god-mode squads which original EQ development never gave a shit about.

So since here they are essentially designing a standalone classic-esque pvp server with longevity in mind, changes that were never considered by the original everquest devs should be made - Like keeping the resist threshold high and considering full buffs group pvp. Think of it as everquest pvp done right for 2011 knowledge and mindset.

The next issue with your line of thinking stems wholly from the fact that your attitude is shit, and people cannot stand you. You know this and you cannot stand people as well Wehrmacht. Thus you are in need of a viable solo experience. Fortunately there are still classes you can play that meet those needs in this group oriented game. Unfortunately for you, you intend on playing a ranger and don't want to get shit on under the proposed parameters.

My suggestion is to raise stun resists in line with the current root and snare resists and leave things be at the current new levels. It's best to have a higher custom threshold because original everquest never gave much consideration to pvp servers and group pvp in designing spells, items, resists and encounters. You will encounter more group pvp than your previous classic experience as evident from the many premade guilds posting here. We should continue to test changes at the highest group thresholds and make adjustments where needed.

Null, you are are doing a fantastic job.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

heck, a naked 50 warrior with grm will be almost immune lol.

Since you use the word "immune" as some bullshit propaganda word, like it's a negative thing, lets have a 0% resist rate for the spell blind since being immune to blind is such a bad thing right? How about rogue's instill doubt spell land every time since being immune to that is bad too right?

Then every fight can be determined by sheer luck as people randomly run into walls while being chain rooted, blinded, and stunned. Rogues can just automatically win every fight by spamming instill doubt. Sounds fucking great.


root doesn't even last long when it lands and it can be dispelled.

Nobody gives a fuck about root in a 1vs1. We don't want to play on a forced zerging server where you have to join a group every time you log on or be root/snare spammed to death.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

At the PVP event I had 10+ people on me several times and I wasn't even close to dying once and I would have been even more safe in a Classic system bullshit system.

Probably because any retard can spam shadowstep over and over to escape root/snare spam. Try playing a normal class like monk and watch as you instantly die while trying to channel pumice and have it interrupted every time with 0 channeling skill.

You claim "soloing is bad" then have no problem that some classes don't have their solo ability penalized at all, while others get huge unwarranted nerfs to solo viability.

Why should a wizard get to solo but xxxxxxx other class gets their solo ability nerfed? What's your rationalization for that? You have none.

Your perspective is flawed for several reasons. EQ was designed as a forced grouping game and Brad Mcquaid's vocal stance on the issue was no secret.

Lol @ this bullshit.

I don't give a damn what you "claim" Brad Mcquaid said. This is an "EQ EMULATOR" server and if the actual game allowed the majority of classes to solo PvP without being chain CC spammed to death by zergers, then that's the way it should be here.

There is no rationalization for nerfing everyone's solo ability while classes like wizard and necro remain basically unaffected due to shadowstep spam.

[DarthPeon]

Lol @ this bullshit.

I don't give a damn what you "claim" Brad Mcquaid said. This is an "EQ EMULATOR" server and if the actual game allowed the majority of classes to solo PvP without being chain CC spammed to death by zergers, then that's the way it should be here.

There is no rationalization for nerfing everyone's solo ability while classes like wizard and necro remain basically unaffected due to shadowstep spam.

Of course you don't give a damn, because you were a bottom feeder then and would strive to be one now if given the chance.

What you fail to realize is that the single group of "zergers" you are referring to under the original flawed system would be in god mode status and you wouldn't be able to dent them as a solo player even if they allowed you. And if by happenstance one day someone groups with you and decides to go after another group, you may get to experience dancing around for 20 minutes playing grab ass. Null's partials on the spells are a good step in avoiding that scenario.

And don't get confused - I'm not advocating for casters vs melee, however for the long term prosperity of the server a community must develop, and that involves balancing around group pvp.

Anyways here are some old quotes from the man himself about comparing and discussing everquest mechanics in relation to his project, vanguard. Aradune actively participated on the Fires of Heaven messageboards and irc channel during that era.

Aradune: There will be casual, group, and raid areas. The game isn't being designed as a solo game, but at the same time soloing will be possible (although grouping will always, regardless of where you are at, be to your advantage). If I had to choose, it will be more like EQ was -- you could solo, but grouping was always to your advantage.

and...

MorbidDeath : more or less pvp oriented than EQ?
Aradune : morbid: hrm... well, same oriented, BUT we're approaching the design so PvP should be
better balanced
Aradune : e.g. it's still a PvE focussed game; PvP will most likely be via alternate rules servers
Aradune : but, we want PvP to be more fun and be more balanced
Aradune : more forethought is going into it

The rest of the transcript is here - http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/10183-chat-aradune-log-sigilgames-yesterday.html

Consider Null and company are properly doing what Aradune intended on fixing for the second go around. Designing a fixed pvp rule set with viable long term options.

[Bkab]

too bad pvp in vanguard turned out way more unbalanced at it's best point than eq was at it's worst

[DarthPeon]

too bad pvp in vanguard turned out way more unbalanced at it's best point than eq was at it's worst

The guy never got to implement much into Vanguard at all, he fell into a drug binge when it mattered most. You missed the point.

[Bkab]

wasn't arguing against your point, was simply saying that's funny he said that and it turned out the complete opposite.

[Crenshinabon]

Saying a class gets shadowstep is irrelevant. Just go buy some 4pp potions.

Also I just noticed that article was about Vanguard.
So sad how that game ended with the Sigil team running out of money and basically getting canned..
Their vision was so far off from what was implemented. I thought the article was about a different game until I read some comments.
Worst pvp experience I have ever had. Way way way too much was broken in the game to release it like they did.
Just goes to show you cannot release a half ass mmo and expect to fix it along the way.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

god mode status

Hello you fucking idiots? Null's "dream monk" build had 1275hp, 40CR/59FR. That means EVERY fucking ice comet will land for MAXIMUM DAMAGE. Meaning ONE SPELL does 70% of the HP bar. If you claim that's GOD MODE, just slap the shit out of yourself for being a god damn idiot.



however for the long term prosperity of the server a community must develop, and that involves balancing around group pvp.

Nobody gives a damn if you think solo ability should be stripped from all classes. That's YOUR idea, that's NOT how EQ REALLY WAS. This is an EQ EMULATOR server.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

OH YEA, what's even more hilarious, pure melee won't have any see invis items so you get to sneak up on people and nuke them for 70% of their HP bar before they even get to attack you!

But, let's give casters MORE WELFARE BULLSHIT, THEY JUST AREN'T STRONG ENOUGH!

[Crenshinabon]

The rage is strong with this one.

[Dfn]

OH YEA, what's even more hilarious, pure melee won't have any see invis items so you get to sneak up on people and nuke them for 70% of their HP bar before they even get to attack you!

But, let's give casters MORE WELFARE BULLSHIT, THEY JUST AREN'T STRONG ENOUGH!

Horrible player confirmed.

Monks were not, are not, and will never be this dominant solo PK class in classic that you're trying to turn them into.

If you don't like being rooted with 80 MR then find a friend to buff you.
If you don't like being outran by druids or shamans, find a friend to sow you.
If you don't like having only slightly more HP than a caster, find a friend to HP buff you.
If you don't like being ganked, find a fucking group.
If you don't like people being invis; find an enchanter, magician, wizard, necro, druid, or shaman.

All of this could be avoided if you opened your fucking eyes and stopped being a god damn retard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw

[Combobreaker]

ATM, if a melee running around solo isnt raid resist buffed or have a set of resist gear for every element... They'll eat max damage, every time. Which means 2 icecomets overkills a monk by ~600 dmg, and for a war, he might be running around with 50-100 health left. Same goes for dots/dds of other classes.

Ofcourse utilities will help a lot, I dont think that melee should be 2shottable by endgame. Who knows, maybe its worse at the lower levels too.

[Dfn]

ATM, if a melee running around solo isnt raid resist buffed or have a set of resist gear for every element... They'll eat max damage, every time. Which means 2 icecomets overkills a monk by ~600 dmg, and for a war, he might be running around with 50-100 health left. Same goes for dots/dds of other classes.

Ofcourse utilities will help a lot, I dont think that melee should be 2shottable by endgame. Who knows, maybe its worse at the lower levels too.

Don't run around solo then.

And I'm not sure how a solo melee dies to a solo wizard. If a root lands, dispel it run away. Hard game.

[Silikten]

Melee's own indoors, casters outdoors...duh?

[Dfn]

Melee's own indoors, casters outdoors...duh?

Not in their mind. Melee's should be immune to CC minutes after hitting 50 and be completely capable of running around solo outdoors taking out casters.

Lol.

[Lovely]

You guys make it sound like strong nukes and dots are so fucking instant casts lol.

Seriously if you guys honestly get killed by other classes in 1v1 randomly all over the world as a melee or any other class then you need to learn how to play this game before you ever post on this forum again.

Right now I'm a level 42 rogue with jboots running through Oasis. I see a level 50Wizard coming towards me. I turn around and run away. Problem solved. Hard??!?!

[Dfn]

You guys make it sound like strong nukes and dots are so fucking instant casts lol.

Seriously if you guys honestly get killed by other classes in 1v1 randomly all over the world as a melee or any other class then you need to learn how to play this game before you ever post on this forum again.

Right now I'm a level 42 rogue with jboots running through Oasis. I see a Wizard coming towards me. I turn around and run away. Problem solved. Hard game?

You should be able to kill him easily outdoors as well as indoors. It isn't fair that the wizard can invis, root, or ice comet after root.

Are these people serious?

[Lovely]

You should be able to kill him easily outdoors as well as indoors. It isn't fair that the wizard can invis, root, or ice comet after root.

Are these people serious?

It's like they never played this game before. It seems like they think all casters got unlimited mana, tank like gods and that every spell is 0.1 second cast.

I got a 49 monk on beta and I would honestly love to duel Nukeafrica on a 50 Wizard. I'm ready anytime you like. But I guess he will just CC me and land 2 fast ice comets on my face and ill die.. Lol

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Not in their mind. Melee's should be immune to CC minutes after hitting 50 and be completely capable of running around solo outdoors taking out casters.

People are here to play EQ, not "some random fool named DFN's clown carnvial version of EQ"

[Dfn]

People are here to play EQ, not "some random fool named DFN's clown carnvial version of EQ"

Which is why people overwhelmingly agree with you, right? The hordes of people spam posting about how melees should be dominant classic solo PKs, immune to all spells mere weeks into a classic server, and equally dominant indoors and outdoors.

I mean, hell, you're bitching about see invis of all things and calling it welfare bullshit. It's pathetic, really. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Which is why people overwhelmingly agree with you, right? The hordes of people spam posting about how melees should be dominant classic solo PKs, immune to all spells mere weeks into a classic server, and equally dominant indoors and outdoors.

I mean, hell, you're bitching about see invis of all things and calling it welfare bullshit. It's pathetic, really. Stop embarrassing yourself.

I made no claim besides the server should be like EQ live. Nice try at claiming I said otherwise.

[Crazerous]

i finaly made up my mind nuk3africa is the MOST annoying person on these forums and i hope he posts his in game name on live. (yes he beat lovely)