Plane of Hate as a whole...

[Quiksilver]

Talk about one of the biggest over-sights on P99... (granted this thread isn't a dead horse)

After having led 20+ open Hate raids on this server I've gotta say... PoHate is much easier here than it was during the Classic era. Has this been addressed already?

Everything is basically the same as I remember except one HUGE detail - The wall/ceiling aggro.

A raid of merely 2 groups led and pulled by a Ranger should not be able to clear PoHate in 4 hours during classic. Granted we would have the occasional level 60 with us but most of the raid would consist of low 50s.

The one argument I managed to come up with? This change would sort of be pointless now that the high-end raiding guilds have basically moved on. It would be pretty unfair to newer members of P99 to deal with the old hellish ways of PoHate (wipes upon wipes and hours of CR).

However, in the spirit of claiming Classic gameplay I would say it is absolutely necessary.

[nilbog]

Everything is basically the same as I remember except one HUGE detail - The wall/ceiling aggro.

I can make all the npcs not need LOS to aggro.

Discuss, folks.

[Lazortag]

Wasn't it also possible to get feared? What mob casts fear in p99's version of hate?

[Teeroyoyort]

LOS should probably be disabled in all outdoor zones. I too remember PoH mobs agro'ing threw walls/ceiling. I was a wizard and it was always fun to port up a group and gate out real fast to get another group. We would have all the wizards port up together and were setup to get our next groups. When we got up with group #1 there was always crazy agro. By the time I got up with group #2 there was usually a nice sized pile of corpses. You had to "break" PoH zone-in similar to breaking PoFear.

[Quiksilver]

I can make all the npcs not need LOS to aggro.

Discuss, folks.

I believe, those LOS changes came with the total revamp later on. When the entire zone was re-done, cosmetically.

I feel like i'm totally throwing end-game peeps under the bus here but I feel this is a pretty big aspect of Classic PoHate that may have been missed by some.

[nilbog]

I believe, those LOS changes came with the total revamp later on. When the entire zone was re-done, cosmetically.

I feel like i'm totally throwing end-game peeps under the bus here but I feel this is a pretty big aspect of Classic PoHate that may have been missed by some.

Are you saying LOS was fixed later in eqlive? That's the way I remember it too.

We didn't have the ability to add aggro without LOS when we originally designed the zone. Now we do.

[Quiksilver]

Wasn't it also possible to get feared? What mob casts fear in p99's version of hate?

Yes is was possible by the drakes. Luckily there were only a few of them up there that it was as big an issue as it is in Fear.

While this isn't a source that came from SoE or Verant, this PoHate zone guide (http://web.archive.org/web/20010301202150/http://www.drawmjil.fakta.se/oc/guides/ipren2.htm) helped me personally back in the day when I was a raid puller up there.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Teeroy is right though... it goes for every outdoor zone. Mistmoore, Unrest, Karnors, etc were huge trainy messes more so than they are now because mobs could aggro thru ceilings/walls in outdoor zones.

[Quiksilver]

Are you saying LOS was fixed later in eqlive? That's the way I remember it too.

We didn't have the ability to add aggro without LOS when we originally designed the zone. Now we do.

I may be wrong but that's how it is on Live now and I quit playing during PoP so the change may have come waaay later but if you pop up there now (on eqlive/any of the more modern private servers like EZ) the mobs dont seem to aggro through walls anymore.

In any case the cosmetic re-vamp of hate was no where near Velious era so I don't think it's an issue.

[nilbog]

In any case the cosmetic re-vamp of hate was no where near Velious era so I don't think it's an issue.

I think you are misunderstanding me. You say the big difference from classic hate was ceiling and wall aggro. That would be caused from... LOS. Npcs can either see through walls, or not, providing for wall/ceiling aggro.

Anyways, keep up the feedback.

[Quiksilver]

I think you are misunderstanding me. You say the big difference from classic hate was ceiling and wall aggro. That would be caused from... LOS. Npcs can either see through walls, or not, providing for wall/ceiling aggro.

Anyways, keep up the feedback.

If that's how the mechanics work then yes, during classic IIRC the mobs in hate (idk about MM or the other outdoorsy zones I sorta skipped em) could see through the walls.

[Quiksilver]

If you have the time to read the link (http://web.archive.org/web/20010301202150/http://www.drawmjil.fakta.se/oc/guides/ipren2.htm) I posted earlier, it describes classic hate the best. It includes which mobs see invis and which don't as well as referencing wall aggro a few times. Idk if you will consider this source reliable but I can assure you that many raid pullers would use that guide as a reference on how to survive up there.

[Nizzarr]

also this:

[Wed Aug 13 20:28:39 200 a loathing lich begins to cast a spell.

Loathing liches are wizards, should have access to all their spells.

I'm surprised this went unfixed for so long.

[Nizzarr]

Wall aggro was pretty much classic, zoning in hate was instant death back then.

[nilbog]

If you have the time to read the link (http://web.archive.org/web/20010301202150/http://www.drawmjil.fakta.se/oc/guides/ipren2.htm) I posted earlier, it describes classic hate the best. It includes which mobs see invis and which don't as well as referencing wall aggro a few times. Idk if you will consider this source reliable but I can assure you that many raid pullers would use that guide as a reference on how to survive up there.

The zone was originally built using this page as a resource, among others. Looks like some things were missed.



Loathing liches are wizards, should have access to all their spells.

I'm surprised this went unfixed for so long.

Fixed, pending update.

Wasn't it also possible to get feared? What mob casts fear in p99's version of hate?

It looks like ire ghasts used to cast fear. Now they are set to cast fear2, the stand in place stun/fear. Ashenbone drakes should cast fear, but I don't see it on their list.

How should this be working?

[Murphy]

Hate is an outdoor zone , and like all outdoor zones there should be no LOS checks for either players or npcs on spells or aggro or anything else, unlike how the server is currently.

[Schortt]

also this:

[Wed Aug 13 20:28:39 200 a loathing lich begins to cast a spell.

Loathing liches are wizards, should have access to all their spells.

I'm surprised this went unfixed for so long.

This should include see invis. Any rogue who tried to snag their epic book solo knew that roaming LL's were the primary danger; scorn banshees were also a problem but not until you were inside Maestro's house.