Opinion poll about training and bind camping

[oldfish]

Im curious to see where people stand on this.

I think they should just enforce nocheat/no exploit and let players sort out the rest.

That way GMs wont get burned with oceans of tears and can focus on making events happen if that is their wish.

You know, fun stuff.

EDIT: Shit, i forgot to include corpse camping.

I guess bind camping is worse, so if youd vote no on bind youd also vote no on corpse.

[Humerox]

good zone control > trainers.
some asshats should be camped. like trainers.

[Peppers]

I would have voted for no training. But since you included no bind camping bind rushers, I could not vote at all.

[oldfish]

I would have voted for no training. But since you included no bind camping bind rushers, I could not vote at all.

Yeah I could have done the poll better, like what you said.

I think its still a good rough gauge of what people want though...

[solid]

#1 Issue that burns GMs out and make them quit the box forever, having to deal with enforcing Play-Nice-Policy.

[Lovely]

Voted on "No, let players sort out training and camping among themselves"

But if training is allowed then it's impossible to fight monks in a dungeon which is kinda shit.

[Softcore PK]

If the server becomes a grief fest like SZ, I'm quitting. Intentional trains need to be punished, and griefing of other sorts needs to be kept in check.

[gloinz]

If the server becomes a grief fest like SZ, I'm quitting. Intentional trains need to be punished, and griefing of other sorts needs to be kept in check.

ur quitting anyway as soon as big gloinz slays u and takes ur camp

[oldfish]

Training = illegal
Bind camping = legal

on server... so why did you include them both together you bumbling fucking retard?

Because they were both things you could do on Rallos. Now can you take your flaming elsewhere? Because you contribute nothing.

[oldfish]

You couldn't legally train on rallos. I played there from day one, you god damn moran.

Do you mean SULLON zek? are you that old that you're a retard?

Im not sure how it was on Rallos in 99, but i started playing during summer 2000 and there was 0 enforcement of binding/training.

By the way im flagging all your posts as flames, take a chill pill.

[Mardur]

Bodies confirmed ready: Bazia, Crazerous, Cwall, Dalem, Darwoth, Dfn, gloinz, Humerox, Kosmic, lindz, Lovely, Mardur, milsorgen, mitic, mostbitter, Naez 4.20, Nuk3Afr1ca, Nune, oldfish, pokra, psyops, Shwingler, solid, Tombom

Bodies confirmed unready: clacbec, Crenshinabon, Dweed, Jirr, jrwriter, Lildain, Muchew, Softcore PK, thrawnseg, Toomuch

[Toomuch]

I see training as "I'm (or we're) not good enough to pvp you, so I'm going to go above and beyond my (our) personal ability to stop you"

Since trains don't kill trains, and good trainers don't get trained, what kills a trainer? Hackers. Training encourages hacking, both because it makes it easier to train, and makes it easier to stop trainers. I know there's an anti hacking policy and detection system in, but train-wars are just ASKING for hackers to come to the surface. Maybe that'll be a good thing, and they'll finally get caught? I dunno.

Secondly, I just know from experience (I raided on Sullon Zek) that bard speed, DA, Rez-Box training is some serious bullshit. There's too many good abilities in the game that make training way too effective to just make it legal across the board. At LEAST keep rez-box training illegal.

In short, I feel like "working it out amongst ourselves" would be actually fighting each other like men, not relying on PvE to do your PvPing for you like a bunch of pussies.

Edit: And about the argument about making it easier on GM's, do you think making training legal on SZ made it so the GM's had to pay less attention to the server? HELL NO! It eventually became a major factor in what drove them to ignore SZ completely, and hacking to become rampant and nearly unchecked, because people were always crying wolf about hackers training them, or petitioning that it was OP, or just bleeding in general. Making training legal will NOT, confirmed WILL NOT, make things easier on the GMs.

[oldfish]

I see training as "I'm (or we're) not good enough to pvp you, so I'm going to go above and beyond my (our) personal ability to stop you"

Since trains don't kill trains, and good trainers don't get trained, what kills a trainer? Hackers. Training encourages hacking, both because it makes it easier to train, and makes it easier to stop trainers. I know there's an anti hacking policy and detection system in, but train-wars are just ASKING for hackers to come to the surface. Maybe that'll be a good thing, and they'll finally get caught? I dunno.

Secondly, I just know from experience (I raided on Sullon Zek) that bard speed, DA, Rez-Box training is some serious bullshit. There's too many good abilities in the game that make training way too effective to just make it legal across the board. At LEAST keep rez-box training illegal.

In short, I feel like "working it out amongst ourselves" would be actually fighting each other like men, not relying on PvE to do your PvPing for you like a bunch of pussies.

How about: im not good enough to fight your 40+ guild roster, does that count?

It may be that Rallos had a no training and no bind camping rule, but it was so non-enforced that i never thought it was actually illegal.

Im curious about feedback from Rallos '99, was training and bind camping met with 0 GM sanctions, like they were in '00 ?

Could you elaborate on what is rez-box training?

[Naez 4.20]

the 1st time a fish bait fear raid gets cazic in camp from asswhole holocaust bucket helmed warrior this here poll results will flip flop

[casdegere]

Training = illegal
Bind camping = legal

on server... so why did you include them both together you bumbling fucking retard?

^This.

[casdegere]

You let training be allowed and your population will be people...who train other people and I doubt the Devs will keep a server open for just a few asshats.

[oldfish]

You let training be allowed and your population will be people...who train other people and I doubt the Devs will keep a server open for just a few asshats.

I rarely trained on Rallos yet i played 2 years. To be fair this community is probably way worse than Rallos was.

I dont know, in my head, its more that it would save GMs giant headaches by letting players sort shit out themselves. Yeah a few people might quit over training but its probably players that would have quit anyway over getting ganked 4v1 5 times in an hour. And they will quit, no matter what.

[casdegere]

I think the distinction is simple. Not sure why there are countless polls and discussions on this subject. People enjoyed PVP on Live. It was fun and exciting at times. However for what ever reason P1999 has collected a large quantity of people who seem hell bent on ruining another persons fun. I am not great in PVP, ill probably die 5x to 1 but its the 1x I win that keeps me coming back. Getting trained in Nro, or Gfay, or Unrest 10x in an hour because someone there is angry at...something is not my idea of fun and it WILL happen. Player A trains Player B. Player B comes back, loots his corpse and Trains player A who happens to be near players C, D and E. When players D and E come back they train player B who is near player F and G. We have seen this on blue and its illegal on blue. I would rather have a larger player base for PVP. Its not carebear, its common sense.

[lethdar]

Bad poll, ties in 2 different things.

[Toomuch]

Agree with bad poll.

No training, yes pvping.

[gloinz]

pvping = training

to say its not is like saying someone who was in a tank wasn't pvping
only ppl outside tanks pvp'ed

[Billbike]

http://blog.e-cigarettedirect.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/NORML_Remember_Prohibition.jpg
Allow BOTH.

EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/flamewheel/ABCMart_MSL/inevitability1.jpg

Trains are inevitable. The line between intentional and accidental can be thin and blurry.

Good luck policing that.

[mitic]

at least i would finaly know what class to play if training would be allowed

[Toomuch]

To go along with your analogy, trains are more like dropping an atomic bomb than taking on a tank.

The difference is you can fight a tank/very strong player with the right weapons, gear, and strategy. Good luck taking on an entire zone/plane time and time again to a chain of bards, clerics, and monks that instantly vanish when they click "Accept" on the little box on their screen.

The difference is pv PLAYER, vs pv ENVIRONMENT.

The polls will indeed flip flop when you're getting chain steamrolled on by a ton of mobs, and all you want to do is fight someone, or level, or raid, or quest, or anything, and they are lolling all the way to their unlooted corpse with a cleric/paladin and druid/wizard/bard standing by.

Are all the "yes" voters just a bunch of people with God complexes, that feel they deserve the power to shut down any attempt at anything all by themselves, and are simply mad that they can't do it with macroquest on this server?

[mitic]

we all know what happened on SZ in oasis when fansy was training giants over and over (i was there when he did it)... now imagine in a dungeon by a feign class

[Toomuch]

I was in his guild. :cool:

It was hilarious!! :D

It was OP.

[oldfish]

I honestly wont care once Rogean and the other devs drop the hammer and decide for either.

But seriously 2 weeks of GMing on red99 with training/bind camping banned which should be alot worse than blue99 with tempers flaring, id be blowing my brains out of this server.

[Softcore PK]

The devs have already decided.. training = illegal.

[oldfish]

The devs have already decided.. training = illegal.

They did? Where?

All i see is a not locked discussion thread stickied on the PVP forum, with the first 2 chat slots reserved by Rogean.

[Softcore PK]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49603

[oldfish]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49603

Right, but if it was set in stone, why would they leave the discussion threads opened?

Rogean could just lock em and chime in "Its final"

[Softcore PK]

Training will not be allowed and if caught will be harshly punished.

This is about as far from ambiguous as a statement can be.

[oldfish]

This is about as far from ambiguous as a statement can be.

Yes, but again, why would they let not only an official thread, an official stickied thread unlocked if it was not because they wanted feedback and the decision wasnt final? With the first 2 slots reserved by Rogean?

Thats my logic in asking for feedback anyway, if its final, they should just go ahead and lock it. If they didnt, to me it means things are still up in the air.

[Bazia]

Yes, but again, why would they let not only an official thread, an official stickied thread unlocked if it was not because they wanted feedback and the decision wasnt final? With the first 2 slots reserved by Rogean?

He's probably busy doing important things instead of going through all his old threads and updating them.

Training is illegal, 'nuff said move on.