View Full Version : ATTN: Beta testers
Look bros, you got to the 18th.
Get real logs, find out whats broken and lets get this shit fixed.
Is AC broken?
Final resists thoughts?
DMG vs NPC vs PC?
Palemoon
11-01-2011, 01:34 PM
Fixing city faction and NPC/Guard assist PC faction to the top of the list imo.
Getting camped by gome necros next to the wood elf guards is gonna cost us players.
dusk883
11-01-2011, 01:36 PM
Fixing city faction and NPC/Guard assist PC faction to the top of the list imo.
Getting camped by gome necros next to the wood elf guards is gonna cost us players.
^ I'm with this.
Softcore PK
11-01-2011, 01:38 PM
Fixing city faction and NPC/Guard assist PC faction to the top of the list imo.
Getting camped by gome necros next to the wood elf guards is gonna cost us players.
Yes, everything else should be secondary at this point.
dusk883
11-01-2011, 01:53 PM
The first mini accomplishment for most gnomes back in the day to get their first kill on a wood elf in GF and then "earn" their KOS status with the GF guards. Even necro gnomes weren't KOS until they had their first elf kill. City faction is a huge "must fix" thing IMO
Doors
11-01-2011, 02:24 PM
I would say the current resist could use work, but for the most part is playable. AC and hit to miss ratio in PVP needs looked at though.
pickled_heretic
11-01-2011, 02:31 PM
The first mini accomplishment for most gnomes back in the day to get their first kill on a wood elf in GF and then "earn" their KOS status with the GF guards. Even necro gnomes weren't KOS until they had their first elf kill. City faction is a huge "must fix" thing IMO
npc faction assist is one thing, losing or gaining faction based on pc kills is another. i'm fairly sure this server is not going to have faction gain/loss on pc kills, a dev can go ahead and correct me if i'm wrong.
Samoht
11-01-2011, 02:34 PM
The first mini accomplishment for most gnomes back in the day to get their first kill on a wood elf in GF and then "earn" their KOS status with the GF guards. Even necro gnomes weren't KOS until they had their first elf kill. City faction is a huge "must fix" thing IMO
That was SZ (team faction PVP)
Aesop
11-01-2011, 02:35 PM
IDK, with 110 MR and balanced resists I'm still getting rooted/snared prettty consistently - which might not be that big of a deal in 1v1 (I'll pumice it) but in mass pvp all that means is assist trains down. Haven't tested with an MR buff though. I got a log of it, something like 100 casts of snare on 110 MR.
Softcore PK
11-01-2011, 02:35 PM
Faction hits happened on all 4 servers.
Rogean
11-01-2011, 02:38 PM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
Softcore PK
11-01-2011, 02:39 PM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
That will work. What about adding in faction hits for players who kill others in their hometown?
Lazortag
11-01-2011, 02:41 PM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
...Even kos guards?
pickled_heretic
11-01-2011, 02:41 PM
Faction hits happened on all 4 servers.
no.
gloinz
11-01-2011, 02:42 PM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
sadface guards should at the very least be racist, a dwarf guard should never attack another dwarf cuz he started shit with an elf, but if the elf started beatin up ol dwarf hes like yo lay off my boy
and in the case 2 non dwarfs fight infront of dwarf guards he jumps in and slays whoever attacking (etc for all cases)
dusk883
11-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Attacker is flagged by guards then? "Victim" then goes in range of guards, guards attack the flagged "attacker"? This is how it works? Which is kinda cool I think, especially say in Nektulous if Halfling commits seppuku on himself at neriak entrance guards but maybe sees dark elf attacker get slain first as he defended home.
PVPBetaChamps
11-01-2011, 07:05 PM
so essentially cities will be safe zones for every troglodyte fuckhead...
lets just add the nexus and be done with it for these whiney bluebie fucks.
Crenshinabon
11-01-2011, 07:07 PM
Good to hear Rogean! I was worried there would be no guard protection.
*edited to say lol @ Gloinz*
Mardur
11-01-2011, 07:27 PM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
Dumb. The "exploitation" was what made it interesting. And if you didn't want to get "exploited" all you had to do was work on your faction.
The "exploit" made traveling to unfriendly cities very dangerous and was part of the danger that made EQ fun. Don't ruin this.
Some people bitch about resists, level range, ac, etc, but this issue is where I'm making my stand. We need faction hits and faction-based guard aggro.
Consider this: based on what Rogean is saying, a mage soloing Oggok Guards will essentially be immune to pvp as they level as the same guards he's massacring will assist him against human players. This system is broken as hell.
(and yes, most agnostic chars with DE illusion are always dubious to Oggok no matter how many guards they kill)
oldfish
11-01-2011, 07:33 PM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
Dumb. The "exploitation" was what made it interesting. And if you didn't want to get "exploited" all you had to do was work on your faction.
The "exploit" made traveling to unfriendly cities very dangerous and was part of the danger that made EQ fun. Don't ruin this.
Some people bitch about resists, level range, ac, etc, but this issue is where I'm making my stand. We need faction hits and faction-based guard aggro.
Consider this: based on what Rogean is saying, a mage soloing Oggok Guards will essentially be immune to pvp as they level as the same guards he's massacring will assist him against human players. This system is broken as hell.
(and yes, most agnostic chars with DE illusion are always dubious to Oggok no matter how many guards they kill)
Not sure im getting this straight, does this mean an Ogre can walk into WFP?
Palemoon
11-01-2011, 08:22 PM
Hmmm, maybe some sort of compromise can be worked on?
-Make guards immune to faction songs/spells
-Hardcap faction with racial guards based on race. I.E. only a high elf can become ally or kindly (does p99 have ally level of faction yet?) with Felewith city guards, all others locked out of the highest level faction, so at the very least you'd be assured (with work!) to have higher faction in your own city then foreigners.
-In the case of two players with same level of faction pvp, the guards assist the defender.
Something along those lines perhaps? NPC Faction is a rich system, and should play more a part in a pvp server. I agree its not perfect, it just needs some "custom classic" love :)
Rust1d?
11-01-2011, 08:27 PM
First, I am not a coder so I do not know how hard it is to program something like this but it is essential. it is like if I go to a bar and my friend gets into a fight, I am not gonna attack my friend.....
First, I am not a coder so I do not know how hard it is to program something like this but it is essential. it is like if I go to a bar and my friend gets into a fight, I am not gonna attack my friend.....
You gotta drink enough...
Lovely
11-02-2011, 05:05 AM
What if XXX player is fighting a guard, aka killing it for EXP. Then I jump the player and kill him. Will the guard go for me after then?
Treats
11-02-2011, 05:33 AM
Dumb. The "exploitation" was what made it interesting. And if you didn't want to get "exploited" all you had to do was work on your faction.
The "exploit" made traveling to unfriendly cities very dangerous and was part of the danger that made EQ fun. Don't ruin this.
Some people bitch about resists, level range, ac, etc, but this issue is where I'm making my stand. We need faction hits and faction-based guard aggro.
Consider this: based on what Rogean is saying, a mage soloing Oggok Guards will essentially be immune to pvp as they level as the same guards he's massacring will assist him against human players. This system is broken as hell.
(and yes, most agnostic chars with DE illusion are always dubious to Oggok no matter how many guards they kill)
This doesn't really make any sense. If a Mage was soloing Oggok Guards, he wouldn't be immune to PvP. It would actually be the opposite. If he is killing a guard for experience and another player decided they wanted to kill him, that guard is not going to go after the other person because of PvP if he is allready fighting. That Mage is going to have two things beating the shit out of him.
Simple solution -- Don't PvP near guards. If you want to kill guards for experience you inherit the risk of it being Guard/Player vs You.
Knuckle
11-02-2011, 09:27 AM
People are talking about that like it's going to work how they remember it.. initially it was removed because it was exploitable. We will be putting in guard assist but it will not be faction based. The guards will automatically aggro anyone they see attacking another player regardless and indiscriminately.
laaaame, im not a fan of 'safe zones' but guards should defend their faction, if you are stupid enough to attack a player at their starting town what do you expect?
Samoht
11-02-2011, 09:58 AM
how is that lame? players can start killing guards at what level, 20? it doesn't take much to overpower the guards, and definitely doesn't create "safe" zones.
what it does do is introduce a strategy of equalizing encounters where someone is trying to PK you and you just want to get on with your day.
guards aren't god-mode. guards don't exist in every zone. try PKing in the world/dungeons instead of the freeport newbie area, kk?
uhh, what city guards are you killing at level 20...? besides it doesn't matter, in zones like innothule which will be a hotspot for pvp with guk where there's troll guards in the zone, people will run and try to hide behind them when they're getting pked and make you eat a large exp death when exp is going to be a grind to get. if you're fighting another level 50 or any level for that matter, having a guard hitting you for 100+ and interrupting your shit is bullshit. especially when they are your own city guards. this is an ffa server, so trolls will be attacking trolls etc. they shouldn't assist or attack people who are pvping others unless they are kos faction wise to begin with.
i totally disagree with what they plan on doing with it =/. can't believe anyone would agree with that. not flaming or trolling, but it just doesn't make any sense.
this is a classic pvp server where NO area should be safe at all from other players like this will do (unless of course they are kos to begin with like i mentioned earlier).
Samoht
11-02-2011, 11:27 AM
i don't know where in FFA you assume that it means without consequences. you're free to PK whomever, wherever, that's FFA. this server is certainly FFA in that regard - there are no zones with PVP disabled.
but you have to be intelligent. you have to be prepared, and you have to plan when/where to PK. PKing someone as they vendor or train or buy spells inside a city is just griefing, and guards are there to discourage that. it also gives reprieve to people who need to med/heal after fighting instead of being attacked by derper after derper after derper that think just because it's PVP/FFA that they HAVE to gank everybody in sight.
i can't imagine any camps or spawns that will be contested inside cities. they're not safe zones, but they're also not war zones.
you're right pal, they should just implement the /ready command null suggested for both players to type before they pvp to make sure everyone has had a nice safe spot to med and heal up and has had a chance to sell and bank all their money!
pickled_heretic
11-02-2011, 11:41 AM
gate guards at freeport are generally lvl 50 and are an undercon. i'd love to see a lvl 20 try to kill them
Mardur
11-02-2011, 11:46 AM
This doesn't really make any sense. If a Mage was soloing Oggok Guards, he wouldn't be immune to PvP. It would actually be the opposite. If he is killing a guard for experience and another player decided they wanted to kill him, that guard is not going to go after the other person because of PvP if he is allready fighting. That Mage is going to have two things beating the shit out of him.
Simple solution -- Don't PvP near guards. If you want to kill guards for experience you inherit the risk of it being Guard/Player vs You.
No, but a mage can easily just run deeper into Oggok or anywhere where there are guards up to be instantly safe under the proposed system.
If you can't see how this is a problem, then, well...
Samoht
11-02-2011, 11:57 AM
you're right pal, they should just implement the /ready command null suggested for both players to type before they pvp to make sure everyone has had a nice safe spot to med and heal up and has had a chance to sell and bank all their money!
or they should just remove all NPCs all together and make this a game where you level up by killing other players and gain gear by taking theirs!
realise that there is a happy medium. PVP does not imply that all you're ever supposed to do is kill other players when you see them. FFA does not imply that the entire server is a war zone. a game like that would be unplayable.
realise that there is a happy medium. PVP does not imply that all you're ever supposed to do is kill other players when you see them.
no, but it does imply should you want to, you are able to.. your post makes no sense at all.
FFA does not imply that the entire server is a war zone. a game like that would be unplayable.
there are no safe zones in classic, so yea it kinda does. So if guards didn't attack players attacking other players, the game would be unplayable? are you serious? read that statement again and reconsider your post. it is most definitely not unplayable, because that's how it fucking was to begin with on classic pvp servers, no zones were safe at all. the entire server was a war zone.
Samoht
11-02-2011, 12:14 PM
no, but it does imply should you want to, you are able to.. your post makes no sense at all.
And if i should want to run to a guard instead of dieing to some no-life derper who made a 300 hp at level 2 twink just to grief people, i should be able to.
there are no safe zones in classic
there are no safe zones proposed for R99, either. quit saying there are. your posts don't make any sense.
because that's how it fucking was to begin with on classic pvp servers, no zones were safe at all. the entire server was a war zone.
did you even play? guards existed on eqlive pvp servers. i played on SZ. guards were there. guards are classic.
Rallyd
11-02-2011, 12:17 PM
I vividly remember bank ganking in neriek city, but i also remember you couldn't be even remotely around guards when you did it, back then LOS wasn't necessary, and you could go on top of the forge building and nuke people in the bank from there, then run down to loot. This was before the corpse was even locked to you when you killed a player, anyone could loot it, so I used to make level 1 bank looter characters for my cousin's 50 wizard to gank people.
Used to make quite a lot of money, however if LOS is needed, there will be no more ganking people in cities without guard distractions, or overpowering numbers.
Samoht, you just said eq would be unplayable if you couldn't run to guards to avoid a pvp death. What doesn't make sense about my post? Quit putting words in my mouth. Where did I say safe zones are proposed and guards did not exist on pvp servers lol? To save yourself a lot of crying and raging, you should probably not even play here and go roll a toon on the blue server.
Samoht
11-02-2011, 12:32 PM
Samoht, you just said eq would be unplayable if you couldn't run to guards to avoid a pvp death.
i never said that.
Quit putting words in my mouth.
Look guys, another trolling, flaming, hypocrite that alters quotes to fit his agenda! seems like that kind of idiocy is rampant on the r99 server. so glad most of it has moved out of p99.
you keep crying that guards aren't classic. i keep providing proof that they're not only classic, but required to make the game playable. since there will be rules and mechanics on the server preventing you from griefing whenever it pleases you, you're crying about it. wahhhh.
all i have to say is play smarter. keep people from making it to the guards if you want to gank lowbies in the newbie area successfully. learn guard paths and only kill people at the bank when you have a clear path to the zone line.
i have no desire to waste my time on a server where some no-life derper like you can twink and outlevel me and then chase me across five zones for the sake of griefing me. guards will give people a place to go to successfully escape. if you want to cry about it, either learn to beat the guards, or learn to fight players that stand a chance.
Treats
11-02-2011, 12:35 PM
No, but a mage can easily just run deeper into Oggok or anywhere where there are guards up to be instantly safe under the proposed system.
If you can't see how this is a problem, then, well...
I'm don't know how the player is going to be safe if he runs further into the zone. They are still KoS to the guards. If he aggroes another guard it isn't magically going to go after the other player if he isn't doing anything. He is going to kill the mage first. If you are KoS to the guards I highly doubt they are going to help you. I'm sure Rogean has allready thought of this.
gloinz
11-02-2011, 01:02 PM
I'm don't know how the player is going to be safe if he runs further into the zone. They are still KoS to the guards. If he aggroes another guard it isn't magically going to go after the other player if he isn't doing anything. He is going to kill the mage first. If you are KoS to the guards I highly doubt they are going to help you. I'm sure Rogean has allready thought of this.
just seems full of loopholes hoho feighn death before u nuke me now mob is on u
samoht confirmed scared of pvp. way to not answer my questions and yet again try to manipulate my quotes and then deny what you just said. done arguing with you lol, you fail at reading comp 101
Samoht
11-02-2011, 01:15 PM
way to not answer my questions and yet again try to manipulate my quotes and then deny what you just said. done arguing with you lol, you fail at reading comp 101
isn't that exactly what you're doing?
allow me to summarize:
you said "guards aren't classic"
i said "guards are classic"
you said "LOL 2 SKEERED 2 PVP"
flame on, nub.
just seems full of loopholes hoho feighn death before u nuke me now mob is on u
i don't think that the guards are going to mind too much if they catch you nuking a corpse, but pvping in cities always had inherent risks, whether you were the aggressor or the victim. if you choose to fight back against a class capable of FD, then you run the risk of getting killed by guards. otherwise, you're just going to have to learn to outsmart the people who would choose to grief this way. make them train themselves, zone dance better, etc.
Crenshinabon
11-02-2011, 02:26 PM
The biggest issue here is level 10s griefing each other in cities, that wont happen if a guard 1 shots you which is very needed imo.
Just please make sure that damage shields do not activate guards. I remember a druid would thorns you then hit you only to have a guard pwn the person with thorns.
Nirgon
11-02-2011, 03:08 PM
PVP can still happen in towns.... just not too close to the guards. Think the Neriak Commons to Foreign Quarter zone line where the Priest of Discord is. I was able to pvp a lot in towns, I just had to be sneaky (usually where I casted from).
Agree on guards when deciding who to aggro should look at if they are scowl/threatening to a player, if so attack nearest, if not attack other. This is for conditions where someone hits an invisible KOS person next to a guard.
Marras
11-02-2011, 06:55 PM
Guard faction is certainly going to be important for this server. Guards should not be randomly attacking people involved in pvp though.
If two of the same race/faction begin to fight, is it the person closer to the guard who gets attacked or whoever casts the first spell/attack?
Needs to be addressed on a FFA server.
Booglie
11-02-2011, 07:30 PM
is it too late to put in the very unclassic vote for no city factions?
two reasons why i like it, both very practical.
first, with no 2 boxing, finding ports will be a bit of a pain in the ass unless there is a very serious population running. having access to a city you can actually run to to buy spells and such would save a ton of the boring running from zone to zone time to find a vendor you can use.
second, its going to drive me nuts if some asshole is hiding deep in a city where he is safe to mouth off and i cant get to him. that is a whole pile of no fun. actually, even if its a nice guy, and he's not mouthing off, its still infuriating.
the only places you should be hard to get at, are places that are actually hard to get to, and you earned your way there.
just my 2 cents for what its worth.
PVPBetaChamps
11-02-2011, 07:40 PM
ebooglie confirmed hooked and will not be enjoying the brisk London air w/ art and cloudy rain, instead cooped up in flat grinding eqs
Evoken
11-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Wait... so guards aren't going to automatically side with whoever has faction, but will you still incur faction hits for killing players of a given race?
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