Consequences of pvp death leads to better pvp communities

[Hobosamurai]

I am down for item loot or any other ideas of pvp death consequences. The reason being is I do believe their is such a thing as a pvp crime. Making pvp extremely costly makes the population more inclined to force all players to self govern themselves.

This idea of "hardcore" is a delusional concept. The more free community and competetive is the one that removes the pests and forces the individual to have standards. Anyone without standards (virtue, honor) where removed like any rodent or disease infested bug.

Killing people randomly and having the "survival of the fittest" attitude just leads to who is the victor, the cockroach or the disease that is attemping to kill it off.

On VZ when item loot was on there was such thing as quality pvp. We had players who honored certain codes of conduct like corpse camping and training while others who didnt. The ones who didnt where outcasts who where killed on site and only had the ability to deal with each other in trade.

Virtue is the "fittest" this whole tribalism concept of who can be the best trash can or cockroach is a childs view of reality and wouldnt survive in a world where death was the consequence.

The greater the consequence the better individuals govern themselves. In this we can have a great pvp community and without this we just have a sewer of a pvp server where the diseases and rodents fight it out on who can smell and be the lowest form of pvper.

[Bockscar]

By that logic, the best server would be one where your character only has one life.

You're spewing a load of bullshit. It has been proven endlessly that making PvP/death more costly just encourages the vast number of douchebag present here to grief and harass as much as they possibly can. They already will, but at least they can't completely fuck the game up for others the way they'd be able to with itemloot.

There is absolutely no correlation between itemloot and a healthy gameplay environment. The reason you remember itemloot as a positive thing was because it existed when the game was young and everyone cared about it in a different way. People here are not worried about their reputation, about upholding the "PvP law," or about the merits of victory. A huge portion of this playerbase is specifically out to make life as sour as at all possible to everyone outside their crew, and if you can grief someone off the server, that's a win in their book. The more damage you can cause, the less fun you can make the game to other players, the more high-fives you earn in this setting. It can't be compared to what Everquest was like in 1999/2000.

Stop trying to bring virtue and tribalism and dumb ideals into it. It has no application on a server where being the biggest asshole is seen by many as an accomplishment. Itemloot will not moderate the PvP environment, it will simply change the way everyone PvPs by encouraging them to either loot as many items as they can in any way possible (which is not through competitive PvP), or PvPing in ways that don't involve risking items. There's no point trying to achieve the same mentality that existed twelve years ago as it mostly existed because the game was new and people cared about what others thought of them.

Besides, it's pointless to discuss. Rogean has announced that itemloot is not something they wish to provide, nor do they attempt to cater to the type of player who can't enjoy PvP without itemloot.

[Hobosamurai]

Well.... from your post I can see you prefer the sewer. I didnt make blanket statements like "There is no correlation between item loot and good pvp server". I never said there was I said "concequences" which I was trying to create a open dialog not closed one. I mentioned it only from my experiences on VZ as a example and please read my title on this post its the first thing you see.

Having dialog about this server doesnt relate to how we interact in game. Keeping dialog open is all we can do to hopefully come to some conclusions to the reality of this current server population and its success.

So if you want to throw your rodent comments and disease based ideas and you are the common folk of the server then you are correct I am wasteing your time and mine and this server will be the trash can I speak of.

Enjoy

[Softcore PK]

I agree with OP. As I recall, the players on VZ were more "honorable" than those on TZ, even at the end. And I think item loot at the start had a lot to do with this. It also encouraged purism, which was dead very soon on TZ but on VZ lasted a long while (especially dark team). Consequence is a very good thing for the pvp environment. Bockscar, on the other hand, also brings up a good point. This is 12 years later and the biggest/only guilds that seem to forming now are full of griefers whose goals are to kill as many people as they can, and not to experience the fantasy world of EQ and enjoy evolving server politics.

Also, I think item loot on this server would scare away too many people. We want to maintain a healthy population at all costs, and to do so I think we need to recruit as many bluebies as is possible. Bluebies will not want their items stolen from them, the prospect I'm sure is an unpleasant one.

Hobosamurai, I think the devs agreed with you about consequence. They have decided to make pvp deaths an exp loss, like dying in pve, though reduced.

[Authority]

Have any of you tardos played pvp since over a decade ago? Paalease, leave the game concepts to the adults.

[Sprinkle]

awesome idea if you want 15 people on your server and all casuals quitting

be quiet please

griefers and pks will just blob up and farm people leveling and bam no players

item loot = bye bye casuals

1 life = lol retarded

[Nirgon]

Rather have people risk their resist gear than have the "this sucks everyone is invincible" cry fest later. Oh well, you'll see. I'm not going near this until I get a good idea of how resists turn out, and by that, the population.

[Sprinkle]

youll be able to level in peace just wait a couple weeks for all the 14 hour clowndogs to level

ill prob burn to 12 and sit there for a couple weeks while all the mage / necro / druid sprout scrubs head out into norrath to start camping me gear

then ill farm their alts while i decide what class will be my main

[Dfn]

It has been proven endlessly that making PvP/death more costly just encourages the vast number of douchebag present here to grief and harass as much as they possibly can.

It has been proven endlessly that death without penalty creates meaningless PvP, encourages bind rushing, and promotes the philosophy of dying being "ok" because it doesn't matter.

[juicedsixfo]

It has been proven endlessly that death without penalty creates meaningless PvP, encourages bind rushing, and promotes the philosophy of dying being "ok" because it doesn't matter.

What the fuck is up with all these idiots and "meaningless/meaningful PvP"? EQ PvP is the same fucking game with PvP flags turned on – that's it. There's plenty of "meaning": takeover camps, control loot, down raids, own zones, et cetera. What the hell do you want, a fucking medal?

[Muaar]

it does encourage community when your community is made of normal people instead the distillate of 12 years of angst

[Lazortag]

Reputation will matter on red99. Griefing will have consequences. No one who griefs will be spared from my wrath.

Hé guys,

Have you heard of the guy named Goo,
He'll chase you down and pounce on you.
Smack ya around and tbag u.
You see his face and then your slew.

No time to run no time to hide,
Grab your friends and hit the line.
Pull the plug and wait a while
Zone back in and crap a pile,
Cause you see his face, you see his smile
Oop hes dotted you in the meanwhile.

Another kill for geegoo
Another thrill for geegoo
His count goes up higher than the rest
All you see is that yellow text, you must really detest
The fact that his blood is blue
that he is a p99er through and through
Yet leader of all the red servers so far
Are all the 'pvpers' really this subpar?

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/itsnotrightnotright/ggvztz.jpg

[Dfn]

What the fuck is up with all these idiots and "meaningless/meaningful PvP"? EQ PvP is the same fucking game with PvP flags turned on – that's it. There's plenty of "meaning": takeover camps, control loot, down raids, own zones, et cetera. What the hell do you want, a fucking medal?

And what's to stop Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from coming back and dying to you every 5 minutes until you finally leave the camp because you don't have the mana/hp to kill him faster than he respawns and comes back? You can't kill the camp in that time, and you care about your reputation enough that you don't want to die to him to preserve the camp. How do you "takeover camps" in this situation? Light bulb moment for you?

That is where a penalty comes into play. Item loot, exp loss, whatever it is keeps Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from dying to you 500 times, wasting your time while you get nothing out of it. Killing Mr. Doesntgiveafuck is no satisfaction in and of itself as 75% of the server has killed him half a hundred times. He doesn't lose anything from dying to you and he doesn't care that he dies.

Now, apply this to "own zones" and "et cetera." I know thinking through things is sometimes difficult for those with intelligence as low as yourself, but please do us all a favor and try to process the information presented before posting more of your retard drivel. Thanks and have a nice day.

[Authority]

Enter naked wizards. End thread.

[Dfn]

^

Didn't read thread. Doesn't know anything.

[Authority]

There are so many retarded here. I cannot wait to grief you bitches off the server.

[Dfn]

Says the guy arguing against death penalties, complaining about caster ganks, and advocating for as small a PvP range as possible. Grief away sir, grief away.

[mitic]

there wont be any item loot... just ... give... up...

[Authority]

I'm anti item loot, not penalties. I'm for 4/6 level range. those aren't crazy ideas. Reread the op, then talk shit.

[Samoht]

That is where a penalty comes into play. Item loot, exp loss, whatever it is keeps Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from dying to you 500 times

The server is proposed to have have coin loot and a pvp exp penalty. Is that different from consequences?

[juicedsixfo]

And what's to stop Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from coming back and dying to you every 5 minutes until you finally leave the camp because you don't have the mana/hp to kill him faster than he respawns and comes back? You can't kill the camp in that time, and you care about your reputation enough that you don't want to die to him to preserve the camp. How do you "takeover camps" in this situation? Light bulb moment for you?


Nope, because bind rushing will be against the play nice policy you fucking moron.

That is where a penalty comes into play. Item loot, exp loss, whatever it is keeps Mr. Doesntgiveafuck from dying to you 500 times, wasting your time while you get nothing out of it. Killing Mr. Doesntgiveafuck is no satisfaction in and of itself as 75% of the server has killed him half a hundred times. He doesn't lose anything from dying to you and he doesn't care that he dies.

Now, apply this to "own zones" and "et cetera." I know thinking through things is sometimes difficult for those with intelligence as low as yourself, but please do us all a favor and try to process the information presented before posting more of your retard drivel. Thanks and have a nice day.

It sounds like you hate playing on a PvP server. What good is "item loot" on someone that's breaking the rules and bind rushing you? Also,

The server is proposed to have have coin loot and a pvp exp penalty. Is that different from consequences?

[returnofahipster]

Original Classic Pvp was +4/-4 coin loot, item loot.
I wish to see this in this server.
However since it dosent seem likely.
Coin loot will have to suffice.
Its not enough to make me say its going to be a bad server.
It would be cool to have maybe 1 day a month with item loot tho!

[Dfn]

The server is proposed to have have coin loot and a pvp exp penalty. Is that different from consequences?

No, I actually like the ruleset. I read the original post, which says item loot or other ideas of pvp death consequences. I tend to agree with the original poster that harsher penalties create a more active self-governing playerbase. I think PvP rewards and penalties are necessary for a successful PvP server. I also read the following responses, the first one beginning with It has been proven endlessly that making PvP/death more costly just encourages the vast number of douchebag present here to grief and harass as much as they possibly can. They already will, but at least they can't completely fuck the game up for others the way they'd be able to with itemloot.


Some responders talk only of item loot while some mention penalties in general.

[Dfn]

Nope, because bind rushing will be against the play nice policy you fucking moron.



It sounds like you hate playing on a PvP server. What good is "item loot" on someone that's bind rushing you? Also,

That's the point. Bind rushing should be enforced by PLAYERS - not some subjective rule only enforced when caught by an authority, well within the realm of GM favortism. Why go down that road when you can modify the system to give players the control?

I've played on more PvP servers than games you've played son. Item loot is no good on someone bind rushing you naked, unless of course they stop to loot their gear. But if I recall, this thread isn't specifically advocating for item loot - it includes "other ideas of pvp death consequence". This is where EXP loss comes in to play, low hp/mana on revival, etc.

Edit: I forgot the obligatory "you fucking moron." And I'll add my own - bluebie relying on playnice policy - LOLOLOLOL

[juicedsixfo]

You know that there is already exp loss on PvP death, right? Son?

[Authority]

Holy back-tracking Batman. You already sounded like a completely misinformed douche.. Just move along.

[Dfn]

You know that there is already exp loss on PvP death, right? Son?

As of right now, yes. But with whiners such as yourself ever present arguing against PvP death penalties, one can never be certain. Who's to say Rogean won't change his mind on the ruleset this afternoon?

[Nirgon]

Enter the modern edge of "huehuehue" gaming. The people that can't hack it at max level are going to make griefer twinks and buttfuck your population. Hell, some people won't even care about getting to the end game, just about making a griefer twink.

[Dfn]

Also, you seem to be under the misconception that PvP death penalties are mutually exclusive. They are not.

[juicedsixfo]

As of right now, yes. But with whiners such as yourself ever present arguing against PvP death penalties, one can never be certain. Who's to say Rogean won't change his mind on the ruleset this afternoon?

"As of right now..." Dear god. You're done, son. If you want to argue hypothetical situations with yourself feel free.

[Dfn]

"As of right now..." Dear god. You're done, son. If you want to argue hypothetical situations with yourself feel free.

Anyone relying on a "play nice policy" to handle PvP situations has no business commenting in a thread on how to promote self-governance.

Nope, because bind rushing will be against the play nice policy you fucking moron.

[Aadill]

jesus christ just pvp bros

[Sprinkle]

jesus christ just pvp bros

listen to this guy

[Aadill]

listen to this guy

i'm not even fucking playing, shutup.

all of you.

fucking play the fucking game.


FUCK

[juicedsixfo]

Anyone relying on a "play nice policy" to handle PvP situations has no business commenting in a thread on how to promote self-governance.

I'm not relying on shit. I'm unstoppable. Just telling you that it's against the pnp which will deter some people on it own and ban some people afterwards because you were raging on about getting owned by bind rushers. Of course it will still happen, which is why there's exp loss. How dumb are you, seriously.

[VanEyck]

Pvp should be consequence free so that the only thing people can cry about is the fact that they suck. It's funny how the people thinking that experience loss is going to somehow stop griefers will be the ones delevelled because of it.

[Muaar]

Enter the modern edge of "huehuehue" gaming.

this saddens me :(

[Sprinkle]

Pvp should be consequence free so that the only thing people can cry about is the fact that they suck. It's funny how the people thinking that experience loss is going to somehow stop griefers will be the ones delevelled because of it.

this guy knows what he is talking about

leaderboards ruin server cause it shows publicly how bad people suck

it makes people try harder to farm kills ( Basically griefing )

encourages hacking by over 9000%



the only person who wants a fucking leaderboard is the merchant who sells instagate pots

YA YA LEADERBOARD BUSINESS GUD

[Macken]

this guy knows what he is talking about

leaderboards ruin server cause it shows publicly how bad people suck

it makes people try harder to farm kills ( Basically griefing )

encourages hacking by over 9000%




What leaderboard in the history of Everquest live or emu posted daily, ever had a list of the worst players? Spreading troll lies.

It makes people try harder to farm kills (Basically encouraging pvp on a pvp server). What did you think this was - a pvp server? lol

Encourages hacking by over 9000% on a server where a high a percentage (maybe 100%) are caught.

I'm disapointed. I know you can do better than that.

[Sprinkle]

millions of ways to hack and not get caught

only retards who open macroquest and use the common stuff get caught

saw plenty of hacks on beta trust me , i have always been anti hack cause they ruined zek in the DON Era but not everyone feels like that

and yes leaderboards just make people try SO HARD to find solo people killing stuf in a dungeon and bam they attack with the sole intention of ganking when they are as un ready as possible

its not sporty pvp its ganking

either way it dont matter

staff isnt putting in a leaderboard regardless of what anyone says because they know its crap

[Macken]

and yes leaderboards just make people try SO HARD to find solo people killing stuf in a dungeon and bam they attack with the sole intention of ganking when they are as un ready as possible

its not sporty pvp its ganking




It wasn't Jordan's fault his competition wasn't prepared.

Stop trying to make your short-comings my problem.

A Leaderboard is for heroes. I wouldn't expect a noob blue scrub to understand, just obey.

[Tombom]

Why are people always so butthurt over the world seeing they are bad. If someone is going to gank you THEY ARE GOING TO GANK YOU, YOU WILL DIE. We can have a forumz flooded with bad SS's and terrible ms paint collages (I love these). Or organize it and put it up on a leaderboard to see who is best at EVERQUEST.

[Sprinkle]

leaderboard ruined zek dude trust me

and zek was bigger then the little emu you played on , and alot longer running

[Macken]

You trying to explain pvp to me is like Scott Jenkins giving Michael Jordan advice.


You aren't in my league kid.

[VanEyck]

I wish there were leader boards just so Macken would STFU

[Macken]

A real baller lets the leaderboard do the talking.

Since there isn't one yet, I guess you know what's coming.

[VanEyck]

Since there isn't one yet, I guess you know what's coming.

The men in white coats coming to take you away?

[Macken]

hoisted on their shoulders why chanting "pvp champ"?

Sure.

[Tombom]

hoisted on their shoulders why chanting "pvp champ"?

Sure.

http://i44.tinypic.com/17wdb5.gif

[Sprinkle]

The men in white coats coming to take you away?

HAHAHA

[Dontmez_Mebro]

Why are people always so butthurt over the world seeing they are bad. If someone is going to gank you THEY ARE GOING TO GANK YOU, YOU WILL DIE. We can have a forumz flooded with bad SS's and terrible ms paint collages (I love these). Or organize it and put it up on a leaderboard to see who is best at EVERQUEST.

I think I prefer the hard work done by the grade school level artists of this forum. The leaderboard won't provide as much entertainment value.

[Macken]

Think outside the box.


Sometimes you can have the best of both worlds.

[genrah]

I am all for item loot, not only because it adds a unique element to the server, but I fear that without it Red 99 is just another Emu server. Population will hover around 100 people and eventually die. I wont beat a dead horse (you can find my posts elsewhere defending item loot) but if you are too carebear to deal with it... go blue 99, and let us hardcores pvp's have our own server without blue influence.

[Wonton]

I am down for item loot or any other ideas of pvp death consequences. The reason being is I do believe their is such a thing as a pvp crime. Making pvp extremely costly makes the population more inclined to force all players to self govern themselves.

This idea of "hardcore" is a delusional concept. The more free community and competetive is the one that removes the pests and forces the individual to have standards. Anyone without standards (virtue, honor) where removed like any rodent or disease infested bug.

Killing people randomly and having the "survival of the fittest" attitude just leads to who is the victor, the cockroach or the disease that is attemping to kill it off.

On VZ when item loot was on there was such thing as quality pvp. We had players who honored certain codes of conduct like corpse camping and training while others who didnt. The ones who didnt where outcasts who where killed on site and only had the ability to deal with each other in trade.

Virtue is the "fittest" this whole tribalism concept of who can be the best trash can or cockroach is a childs view of reality and wouldnt survive in a world where death was the consequence.

The greater the consequence the better individuals govern themselves. In this we can have a great pvp community and without this we just have a sewer of a pvp server where the diseases and rodents fight it out on who can smell and be the lowest form of pvper.

Harvard Grad?