Snare, root and stun tests with exactly 100 MR inside.

[Lovely]

First of all I wanna just say that all you cheaters out there that just got banned are pathetic scrubs. Gonna laugh my ass of if it's some of the loud mouths on this forum.


Bond of Force: Level 29 snare, 75 mana, 2.5 second cast

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/y9R73866.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/U3J73870.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/nov73875.jpg

Root: Level 4 root, 30 mana, 2.0 second cast

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/KQb75185.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/nEU75189.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/9to77516.jpg


Paralyzing Earth: Level 49 root, 100 mana, 2.5 second cast

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/aZR76896.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/TN976910.jpg


Tishan's Clash: Level 20 stun, 65 mana, 2.5 second cast (Stun always lasted around 1 second)

Markar's Clash: Level 49 stun, 200 mana, 3.3 second cast (Stun always lasted around 2 seconds)

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/wbz75549.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/1m575538.jpg


I would love for someone to test druid snares and root cause I have a feeling that they are stronger then they should be. I remember in the first weeks of beta when I couldn't land a single root on anyone when PVPing together with Flip a 50 druid. While he basically rooted people every cast and they would last a long time as well.

[Lovely]

Shock of Lightning: Level 12 nuke with small pushack, 60 mana, 2.2 second cast. Currently it's bugged and totally useless since it can resist. It's suppose to be unresistable and that's the only reason why people used it at all. Proof under here ---->

September 10th, 2001 07:16 PM #7
CrimsonJ8d
Guest
Wanna PK? Read and Learn (kinda long but oh well)

finally a thread that really talks PvP... few things... shock of lightning doesnt always interrupt... but it is unresistable... so dont rely on it...

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/IrU75560.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/OV875758.jpg

Fix shock of lightning plz!

[nilbog]

Thank you for legitimate testing.

[lethdar]

IMO the stun resists are probably fine due to the partial system working, same with mez due in part to the easy of countering it. Root/snare should have their resist chance increased, having your sow knocked off so easily / movement stopped is a pretty deadly thing in eqpvp.

Preplanar a realistic MR range for melee unbuffed might be 80-100, but even with MR on root/snare lands enough that one of the best strats for all encounters is to just have one person spam cc while the other actually does damage. That wasn't like everquest pvp at all.

[Sprinkle]

i had coz on rallos level 12 for 2 years bound at CB Zone for pvp

shock of lightning was never un resistable early back , if it was made unresistable it was much much later

[Lovely]

i had coz on rallos level 12 for 2 years bound at CB Zone for pvp

shock of lightning was never un resistable early back , if it was made unresistable it was much much later

Can you stop posting things that mean nothing? Sources, proof find some. Also Shock of Lightning is bugged right now no matter what. It's suppose to have the same code as nukes. Currently it works the same way as root, snares and stuns and that's a bug.

[lethdar]

i had coz on rallos level 12 for 2 years bound at CB Zone for pvp

shock of lightning was never un resistable early back , if it was made unresistable it was much much later

silly made up data about it being made unresistable.

It's a nuke, just like all nukes it was very unlikely to get a full resist unless you had crazy crazy high mr (aka bard), This didn't matter because the only thing you really needed from the SoL was the pushback.

[Palemoon]

Why wouuld shock of lighting be unresistable? The push component? a lot of spells have that.


Slot

Description



1

Decrease Hitpoints by 78 (L12) to 83 (L17)






Mana

60



Range to Target

200



Casting Time

2.20



Fizzle Time

2.50



Recast Time

2.25



Duration

Instant



Target Type

Single



Spell Type

Detrimental



Resist

Magic (0)


Classes

WIZ/12






Cast on you

You convulse as lightning arcs through you.



Cast on other

convulses as lightning arcs through them.

[Lovely]

It's suppose to work like a nuke and nukes are basically unresistable. I can nuke myself 500 times with the level 1 FR nuke with 140 FR and resist it 0 times. Same thing should apply for shock of lightning. Right now it has the same % of resist as stuns, snare, roots and that's not how a nuke is suppose to work without a stun component.

[Sprinkle]

level 1 nuke is resistable ~

[Smedy]

Looks fine to me. Once Null's real intended resist code got into working condition i think it has been working great, i have only played hybrid but as far as i know i resist a decent amount with 75 mr and melee isn't to bad/to good.

We getting our bodies ready sons.

[Lovely]

Yes nukes are resistable but after casting over 1000 nukes in PVP so far I've yet to see a single full resist (beside during the bugged patch when you became immune to everything at 65 in the resist). All in all shock of lightning is suppose to work the same way as the other nukes. Not the same as a stun, root and snare.

[Bockscar]

Some low-level nukes were unresistable. I can't remember if this was the case in 1999, that's a long-ass time ago, but certainly before Luclin. You can read old PvP guides from the Velious era that specifically comment on such things as Chaotic Feedback being unresistable. I'm pretty sure this included the low-level cleric and wizard nukes that had pushback as well, SoL and Furor or whatever it is.

Anyway, that aside, these resist rates are miles from classic. Has the classic goal been scrapped entirely? I've been away for a few days so I guess I missed the memo, but people are talking about things as if it has just been accepted that it won't be classic anymore.

One of the only things that made Everquest PvP work was the fact that you could gear yourself for PvP and be pretty sure disabling spells wouldn't land on you. You could also be confident that nukes without a resist modifier would be partially resisted a lot of the time, and fully resisted often enough to be relevant as well. The important thing is CC spells, though, because if you can't make yourself nearly immune to those, the entire concept of PvP gets bent over and fucked mercilessly in the ass. 100 MR is as much as most people can get without truly best-in-game gear, maybe 120 if you really sacrifice everything else for MR and end up with a character that has no AC, HP or mana. Anything more than that takes buffs and/or high-end items like Tranix crown that most people can never expect to get.

The resist model is by far the most important thing for this server. Nothing else really matters, the game itself works fine and the server could launch as a carbon copy of P99 with FFA PvP enabled and it would be a success as long as the resist rates are as close to classic as realistically possible. If anything needs to be done right, it's this. If spells are landing easily on people in full resist gear, it hasn't been done right. As it stands, you'd be better off wearing full HP and AC gear if you're a caster, and better off rerolling a caster if you're melee.

Do not make the grave mistake of intentionally including custom features like an invented resist system and altered durations for spells. You're just inviting a tidal wave of demands for other increasingly ridiculous things, and you'll end up with a community that absorb itself in endless bullshit discussions about each and every player's individual view on what PvP should be like. It has been proven so concisely that the classic goal is absolutely crucial and the key to the success of P99, and its absence most of the reason for the failure of previous emu servers. The game mechanics cannot be open to customization and interpretation except in the rare instance where the classic canon can't be tracked down and you just have to make an educated guess. There can be no questioning the fact that the current resist model is nowhere near classic, and it worries me that people seem to just accept it and resign themselves to the fact that the developers no longer intend to keep it classic. That'll ensure another unsuccesful server. What gathered such a huge amount of interest for R99 was the fact that it promised a classic PvP server with serious support and development, and the fact that P99 had proven that this was available. It's not PvP alone that got hundreds of people to come here before the server has even opened, because PvP emus have been a dime a dozen and nowhere near as popular. It's classic PvP, with emphasis on the classic.

[Lazortag]

Some low-level nukes were unresistable. I can't remember if this was the case in 1999, that's a long-ass time ago, but certainly before Luclin. You can read old PvP guides from the Velious era that specifically comment on such things as Chaotic Feedback being unresistable. I'm pretty sure this included the low-level cleric and wizard nukes that had pushback as well, SoL and Furor or whatever it is.

Anyway, that aside, these resist rates are miles from classic. Has the classic goal been scrapped entirely? I've been away for a few days so I guess I missed the memo, but people are talking about things as if it has just been accepted that it won't be classic anymore.

One of the only things that made Everquest PvP work was the fact that you could gear yourself for PvP and be pretty sure disabling spells wouldn't land on you. You could also be confident that nukes without a resist modifier would be partially resisted a lot of the time, and fully resisted often enough to be relevant as well. The important thing is CC spells, though, because if you can't make yourself nearly immune to those, the entire concept of PvP gets bent over and fucked mercilessly in the ass. 100 MR is as much as most people can get without truly best-in-game gear, maybe 120 if you really sacrifice everything else for MR and end up with a character that has no AC, HP or mana. Anything more than that takes buffs and/or high-end items like Tranix crown that most people can never expect to get.

The resist model is by far the most important thing for this server. Nothing else really matters, the game itself works fine and the server could launch as a carbon copy of P99 with FFA PvP enabled and it would be a success as long as the resist rates are as close to classic as realistically possible. If anything needs to be done right, it's this. If spells are landing easily on people in full resist gear, it hasn't been done right. As it stands, you'd be better off wearing full HP and AC gear if you're a caster, and better off rerolling a caster if you're melee.

Do not make the grave mistake of intentionally including custom features like an invented resist system and altered durations for spells. You're just inviting a tidal wave of demands for other increasingly ridiculous things, and you'll end up with a community that absorb itself in endless bullshit discussions about each and every player's individual view on what PvP should be like. It has been proven so concisely that the classic goal is absolutely crucial and the key to the success of P99, and its absence most of the reason for the failure of previous emu servers. The game mechanics cannot be open to customization and interpretation except in the rare instance where the classic canon can't be tracked down and you just have to make an educated guess. There can be no questioning the fact that the current resist model is nowhere near classic, and it worries me that people seem to just accept it and resign themselves to the fact that the developers no longer intend to keep it classic. That'll ensure another unsuccesful server. What gathered such a huge amount of interest for R99 was the fact that it promised a classic PvP server with serious support and development, and the fact that P99 had proven that this was available. It's not PvP alone that got hundreds of people to come here before the server has even opened, because PvP emus have been a dime a dozen and nowhere near as popular. It's classic PvP, with emphasis on the classic.

I agree with a lot of this. Currently there seems to be no distinction between the resist rates of non-CC spells and CC spells at the top end. 100 MR should resist roots a lot more than non-CC spells but currently fufil's curtailing chant (an MR-based bard dot) resists roughly as often according to my testing. Here's the thread with my (somewhat limited) testing:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52223

Hopefully this can be addressed before launch - the resist system right now is okay, but it could be perfect with just a few minor tweaks.

[gloinz]

those resist rates should be a lot higher for someone with 100 mr imo for roots

[Melveny]

I concur on the shock of lighting, Live i played wizard first to 46. That was my pvp spell of choice old world, while everyone is trying to get ice comet or conflag to cast, i would just interrupt with this and deal my 100 pts of dmg, widdleing them down. It DID interrupt every successful land, I cant recall seeing it get resisted. However I don't want to say it is "unresistable", I think it has that special circumstance we all remember on live of which lower lvl spells landing better.

[Nirgon]

Good job Lovely.

Past like 40, shock of lightning wasn't always getting people for me... mostly but not always, even less so 51+.

No I don't have a screen shot of every time it happened with my grand mother holding up 2 forms of ID next to it.

[Kringe]

Going to have to agree with most of what's said here... Shock of Lightning, Chaotic Feedback a few others were "Damn near" unresistable and a great spell choice for interupting long casting spells.

Was a viable strat in 99-2000

Shouldnt be any different for us here.

[Amuk]

Ew yuck, snares landing for 7s 7s 5s 4s 8s on 100mr - those are all plenty of time to focus down a guy in grp pvp heh. Guess I should be fully accepting the class change to a hybrid so I have survivability/ccs - fuck my life.

[Amuk]

I'd like to see ensnare/darkness testing, probably longer heh.

[MakeYouMad]

Yep, those snares last long enough so that everyone on the server walking around alone is a free kill anytime two or more players attack them. One guy just spams snare the whole fight while the other attacks.

This is not skill based PvP, this is "zerg based PvP".

Who actually finds that play style enjoyable???

We need the compromise solution, we'll take stuns landing but screw the snares and roots.

[stonetz]

Anytime it's 2 vs 1 person it's going to be brutal. More involved than that is even worse.
Something is wrong if gank squads don't easily gank. That's the point of a few people jumping loners.

[Smedy]

Shock of Lightning: Level 12 nuke with small pushack, 60 mana, 2.2 second cast. Currently it's bugged and totally useless since it can resist. It's suppose to be unresistable and that's the only reason why people used it at all. Proof under here ---->



http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/IrU75560.jpg

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/OV875758.jpg

Fix shock of lightning plz!

Wasn't chock of lightning pretty much unresistable on live in classic? I cannot confirm this but i remember it being used even though i resisted root and everything else.

[stonetz]

Thats how I remember it.

[Lovely]

Anytime it's 2 vs 1 person it's going to be brutal. More involved than that is even worse.
Something is wrong if gank squads don't easily gank. That's the point of a few people jumping loners.

I agree, but then you'll have a bunch of people crying about "ZERG PVP" and how you are suppose to be able to attack a raid with 5 people. Blablabla I only solo PVP yet I don't care if several people have an edge vs me. It's suppose to be like that. The higher numbers the bigger chance you should have of killing people.

[stonetz]

I agree, but then you'll have a bunch of people crying about "ZERG PVP" and how you are suppose to be able to attack a raid with 5 people. Blablabla I only solo PVP yet I don't care if several people have an edge vs me. It's suppose to be like that. The higher numbers the bigger chance you should have of killing people.

Yep, pretty simple, if 1 guy can take out a group he's OP. Unless of course the gear gap is so huge but that's going to be a bigger issue after Kunark / Velious. Few guys with shit gear vs 1 NTOV / ST geared melee. I remember that happening a few times and getting pretty pissed. More so if he's a twink with fungi etc.

Edit: People are going to cry no matter what. I just can't wait because this is going to be as close to classic (maybe better) than it will ever get. I enjoyed VZTZ though.

[MakeYouMad]

Anytime it's 2 vs 1 person it's going to be brutal. More involved than that is even worse.
Something is wrong if gank squads don't easily gank. That's the point of a few people jumping loners.

You gotta be fucking kidding dude. It does not take any skill to spam snare while another person attacks an immobile target. You're basically saying that it's OK for two people that just started playing the game 5 minutes ago to win fights against people who have played years and mastered everything.

You're rewarding bad players with kills just for zerging and punishing good players by not giving them ANY benefit for their far better playing ability.

That's the only reason people liked EQ in the first place, one good player could kill an infinite number of terrible players.

[Lasher]

I am pretty sure at some point they made low lvls nukes harder to resist because it was griefing newbies trying to lvl, they didnt make them unresistable but just a lot harder. For most classes this didnt mean too much since their low nukes sucked but for ench and wiz they got a low lvl nuke that had a stun or knock back component which made it useful at high lvls in pvp. I cannot attest for wiz but i know chaotic feedback in 1999 was resisted alot but at some point maybe velious or luclin it became alot more useful, could knock people off their horses with it

[Lovely]

But in the end it doesn't really matter for shit about I or you guys think. The developers will go with their vision and make a system they think will be the best for the server. Especially when every Poll ends up in a 50/50 or a 60/40. I'm confident myself that I'll destroy every noob that jumps me no matter what resist system.

[Jigga]

you destroy those newbs, destroy them good.

[MakeYouMad]

But in the end it doesn't really matter for shit about I or you guys think. The developers will go with their vision and make a system they think will be the best for the server. Especially when every Poll ends up in a 50/50 or a 60/40. I'm confident myself that I'll destroy every noob that jumps me no matter what resist system.

And you're currently playing a wizard and have no intention whatsoever of playing a pure melee right? So you're obviously biased as fuck.

[Lovely]

And you're currently playing a wizard and have no intention whatsoever of playing a pure melee right? So you're obviously biased as fuck.

I've always played a Monk in EQ and I might roll one at live. Not sure yet. But it has nothing to do with my opinion about what system to use. No matter what I'm gonna make a Monk as my 1st or 2nd character and that's probably gonna be the one I play the most later on. It will also be hanging out in dungeons and I'll be happy if any casters wanna visit me there.

[Nirgon]

Wait for the nerf melee cries when people get even basic magic resist gear, let alone mithril arms and legs and shit. Remember, they won't have to risk losing it at all.

[Authority]

Casters have so many ways to get out of pvp if the odds arent right. Melee do not have this luxury... /cry more pls permaroot ftmotherfckin lose

[Nirgon]

That's how it was at early levels, sorry gang.

[stonetz]

Casters have so many ways to get out of pvp if the odds arent right. Melee do not have this luxury... /cry more pls permaroot ftmotherfckin lose

If you're melee roll with a crew. You can play melee and pvp just don't expect to work out too well solo. If it does it's sure as hell not classic.

[MakeYouMad]

If you're melee roll with a crew. You can play melee and pvp just don't expect to work out too well solo. If it does it's sure as hell not classic.

BS, melee solo fine in legit EQ

[Authority]

I still cannot figure out why the fuck a single caster is complaining about anything. No, xp penalties, roots/snare/pets/gate/etc. fuck off. This server went away from classic a while ago, maybe let's have more than int casters and druids running around. That would be kewldewd.

[Vile]

I still cannot figure out why the fuck a single caster is complaining about anything. No, xp penalties, roots/snare/pets/gate/etc. fuck off. This server went away from classic a while ago, maybe let's have more than int casters and druids running around. That would be kewldewd.

launch is going to be all mages, necros, and druids bro...

[solid]

Only read first page of thread, don't have time to read the rest atm.

But on the first page, no one points out that there are no timestamps/actual logs to coincide with the stun/root/snare times Lovely gives, how can this be considered good testing, especially when this is SO easy to log.

[Vile]

retest w/ proper logs NAOOoooooo

[Xareth]

Ew yuck, snares landing for 7s 7s 5s 4s 8s on 100mr - those are all plenty of time to focus down a guy in grp pvp heh. Guess I should be fully accepting the class change to a hybrid so I have survivability/ccs - fuck my life.

Yeah I hear that. And I'm sure darkness / snare would be even longer and probably less resists.

That's the only reason people liked EQ in the first place, one good player could kill an infinite number of terrible players.

Nail on the motherfuckin head.


And yes, timestamp for some cred.

[Authority]

Do people not know how to use logs here? I came here thinking this would be a skilled player base, and I find people posting screenshots for "testing".

[Lovely]

Logs are for nerds. We cool people use screenshots :cool:

I totally forgot you could log. Ill do it next time.. Just /log on right? or something like that

PS: Iphone timer >> Logs