Hoppy Easter

[Hasbinbad]

Since it's officially Easter Sunday in some parts of the world, I thought I would take a moment to wish everyone well and remind everyone what this holiday is really about!

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w274/SirPerc/Christianitydemotivator.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w274/SirPerc/1229803534720.jpg

..and ask yourself..

If Jesus died for our sins, but was then resurrected, doesn't that make him an Indian giver?

Hoppy Easter!

[Shannacore]

This post reminds me of this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4RRGq8jNQ

[Jeebus]

excellent post, Hasbin. As unreligious as my family is.. we still get together on this holiday for dinner.

[to0p]

rofl

[Ihealyou]

If Jesus died for our sins, but was then resurrected, doesn't that make him an Indian giver?

Hoppy Easter!

It makes him a zombie Indian giver

[bionicbadger]

So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb fuck and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity.
-- Frank Zappa

[Burlyboss]

-- Frank Zappa

All Hail Zappa!

[Belleraphone]

I find this offensive.

[Joessins]

Im doing this to boost the amount of posts I have. But I love you all.





---------------------------------------------------------------------
Drolgurd FTW

[xdanzx]

zombie jesus appreesh

[Akim]

Its also my Birthday!!!
Does that mean I'm not the anti-christ?

We're yet to find out.

[Finawin]

In every way, Atheism is equally as retarded as Christianity by the same standards it's being judged by most.

Hurrrr, I'm so smart I know what happens after I die because I've been to the future where I've died. I was also there when existence was...created? Existed? Ummm? Deeeerrrrrp I'm a fucking genius and anyone with a religion or a view differing mine is less intelligent than I.

[whitebandit]

fucking christians

[buffug]

Where my mormies at?

Joe Smith FTW

[Finawin]

Exclusions to the above:

Scientologists and Wiccans...I think that's all I have for now. Scientologists are fucking retarded for believing in that shit.

[Hasbinbad]

In every way, Atheism is equally as retarded as Christianity by the same standards it's being judged by most.

Hurrrr, I'm so smart I know what happens after I die because I've been to the future where I've died. I was also there when existence was...created? Existed? Ummm? Deeeerrrrrp I'm a fucking genius and anyone with a religion or a view differing mine is less intelligent than I.
I kind of hate myself for saying this (thus agreeing with FINAWEIRD), but that is exactly how I feel.

Nobody can answer the question of causation with any amount of certainty, so even attempting is idiotic. Agnosticism FTW.

However, I do think there is good to be had from each religion. Most have holy books which contain stories which hold value for people, even in the modern world.

It's when people speak with certainty about whether or not there is or is not a higher power that I have to call bullshit. You don't fucking know, so don't fucking say so. There are gullible people in this world and many of them are children. They don't need you filling their head with outright lies.

Also, it amuses me that religious people talk about "faith" and then speak with certainty, when the one denies the other by definition.

Liars, the whole lot.

Beliefs are one thing, but preaching should be a crime. Your relationship with your view of a higher power should be personal and kept to yourself.

[Stonewall]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15843_619581661453_23204090_37104515_4896935_n.jpg

[Hasbinbad]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15843_619581661453_23204090_37104515_4896935_n.jpg
omfg thats the best venn i've ever seen!
going in my collection!!

[ArkhamCifre]

Atheism is the belief that there are no Deities. Period. All other beliefs held by an Athiest are irrelevant to Atheism itself. That means an Athiest CAN believe in ghosts, afterlife or any other thing we typicaly associate with a religous belief.
As an atheist I can also believe in the possibility that there are beings in the Universe who are incredibly powerful, knowledgable or any other -able. What I don not believe is that these beings are in any way divine or SUPERnatural. Any thing or being that exists is by definition a part of reality and nature and so natural. I do not belive any being no matter how far advanced is entitled to my worship, adoration or submission. That, Finawin is atheism. It is not the belief that I know everything..or anything in fact.

[ArkhamCifre]

BTW- I forgot to say- that Venn is f-awesome.

[Hasbinbad]

Atheism is the belief that there are no Deities. Period.
Right.

A "belief."

Which is totally groundless. You have exactly the same basis for saying that as I do if I said "fairies exist," or "fairies don't exist."

I don't care what YOU believe, but when atheists speak with certainty about their belief, they are lying, because they honestly don't know shit.

:)

[ArkhamCifre]

I find if so funny that people cannot accept that some else thinks or believes what they don't and have no ability (willingness?) to use listen to anothers words/meaning without hearing only what they want to argue about.
The word belief means--belief. Its retared to say someone cannot speak with certainty about their belief..its there belief if they aren't certain about it then it's not realy a belief is it? It's a sort of haphazard leaning. What is not certain is the connection between the belief and objective reality.
And I realy don't get the point of Fenawin and Hasbinbad. So you believe there are deities just not Christ? Or maybe all the other Earth based deities? Maybe you believe in Xenu and laugh at us silly non-Scientologist?
The throwing around of words like groundless instead of breaking down the logic I set down as to why an atheist does not believe in deities is avoidance. It's like me saying well it's groundless that you say atheism is groundless.
My real reason to responding to this thread was not that I care what anyone believes or doesn't. It was the fact that it became vague. Christians by defintion believe the things you enumerated in the first post Hasbinbad ( tho I'm sure they would not phrase them in the same way lol). Fenawin then attacked athiest in a way that was not accurate. By saying that all do this or believe that when there is only one single thing that defines atheisim is not on a level with the brilliant mocking of the original post. I love debate, I love sarcasm and paraody and satire. The problem is that when it degenerates into vague statements of personal ill will devoid of a relationship to what is supposedly targeted then it's simple and typical internet static.
Sorry this has been a bore to write so it must be mind numbing to read, but you ever get that hair up your arse over something and you just have to say something? Well I got that hair out so I'm going to say Happy Easter to all. Eat some choclate bunnies, think about Ol' Christos and all the other saviors we've had and the deities they are/represent. Ask yourself...just WTF IS a deity? That in a nutshell says wether or not you are athiest.
O, and no one honestly knows shit about anything. But using that card in any discussion is an instant buzz kill.

[kanly]

Well i will put in my 2 cp, i am an atheist. I dont know with any certainty that there is no god. I can say that i have made the decision that i feel the religions on this planet are false as there are problems and contradictions within any of them. There could possibly be some kind of supreme being but if there is i dont know who it is nor do i feel the need to worship it. Either way ill be working today to let my religious friends have the day off and enjoying some left overs from the families Easter dinner.

[ArkhamCifre]

another BTW- my fingers are a rebelious lot and do not find the commands of my brain for the most part to their liking. Therefore I will not be held responsible for typos, grammar mishaps and the like.
Any complaints on these issues should be addressed directly to the fingers themselves. Preferably the middle one.
Thanx

[Hasbinbad]

I find if so funny that people cannot accept that some else thinks or believes what they don't and have no ability (willingness?) to use listen to anothers words/meaning without hearing only what they want to argue about.
Take your own advice. See below.
The word belief means--belief. Its retared to say someone cannot speak with certainty about their belief..
That would be true if there was some shred of evidence for why they believe something, such as in science. The scientific method allows for the gathering and evaluation of evidence to show consistent results based on rigorous testing. If a rock falls EVERY time you drop it, something must cause that. Newton came up with gravity. Lots of scientists have proved it's validity since then. I "believe" in gravity. Your "belief" that there are no such things as "deities" or "higher powers" or whatever jargon you want to use is based on "some idea you thought up."
its there belief if they aren't certain about it then it's not realy a belief is it?
You can certainly have belief without certainty.
It's a sort of haphazard leaning. What is not certain is the connection between the belief and objective reality.
I knew a guy in high school like you. He would be having a conversation with himself in his head, and then just continue it with whoever was around, expecting them to have some idea of what the fuck he was babbling about.
And I realy don't get the point of Fenawin and Hasbinbad.
We have been sent here to destroy you.
So you believe there are deities just not Christ? Or maybe all the other Earth based deities? Maybe you believe in Xenu and laugh at us silly non-Scientologist?
No. I am agnostic, the only logical choice.
The throwing around of words like groundless instead of breaking down the logic I set down as to why an atheist does not believe in deities is avoidance.
I'm sorry, I didn't notice any logic in anything you said. I've gone back, and still cannot find any. Please reiterate this "logic" that you speak of, and I will be happy to trounce your idiotic ass more specifically next time.
It's like me saying well it's groundless that you say atheism is groundless.
No, I said that your "belief" that there are no deities is groundless. You have absolutely no evidence of any such thing, ergo groundless. If you have some form of evidence of the lack of a higher power, please present it, I'm sure 7 billion people would love to hear it. Same thing goes for religious people.
My real reason to responding to this thread was not that I care what anyone believes or doesn't. It was the fact that it became vague.
What the fuck are you talking about? I can get by typos, but you're just rambling at this point.
Christians by defintion believe the things you enumerated in the first post Hasbinbad ( tho I'm sure they would not phrase them in the same way lol).
That is as ignorant a thing as I have ever heard. There are billions of christians in the world, and to insinuate that they all believe exactly the same things is retarded on a whole new level than I have ever been exposed to, and *I* have seen the p99 forums!
Fenawin then attacked athiest in a way that was not accurate. By saying that all do this or believe that when there is only one single thing that defines atheisim is not on a level with the brilliant mocking of the original post.
Sure it is. He pointed out how religious nuts and atheist nuts are exactly the same in their nuttiness. Neither one of you has any real basis for believing what you believe, and yet somehow it's atheist idiots and religious idiots that are most vocal, leaving the logical people mostly in the dark.
I love debate, I love sarcasm and paraody and satire. The problem is that when it degenerates into vague statements of personal ill will devoid of a relationship to what is supposedly targeted then it's simple and typical internet static.
Agains with the disconnected rambling, what is your point? What are you saying is vague? How is what we said not specific?
Sorry this has been a bore to write so it must be mind numbing to read, but you ever get that hair up your arse over something and you just have to say something?
I assume you're talking to finaweird? He was just stating the obvious.
Well I got that hair out so I'm going to say Happy Easter to all. Eat some choclate bunnies, think about Ol' Christos and all the other saviors we've had and the deities they are/represent. Ask yourself...just WTF IS a deity? That in a nutshell says wether or not you are athiest.
This is the kind of ignorant spouting that I take issue with. You're speaking with certainty as if people WILL be atheist by default if they have some view or another. The default position is actually ignorance. The embracing of that ignorance embodies agnosticism. We are smart enough to know that there is no knowing, that knowing is beyond us, and move on. It's so frustrating to watch gullible people get trapped by liars like you.
O, and no one honestly knows shit about anything. But using that card in any discussion is an instant buzz kill.
By this statement, you're an agnostic, not an atheist.
Well i will put in my 2 cp, i am an atheist. I dont know with any certainty that there is no god.
By this statement, you're an agnostic, not an atheist.
I can say that i have made the decision that i feel the religions on this planet are false as there are problems and contradictions within any of them. There could possibly be some kind of supreme being but if there is i dont know who it is nor do i feel the need to worship it. Either way ill be working today to let my religious friends have the day off and enjoying some left overs from the families Easter dinner.
Again, you're an agnostic, not an atheist.

Agnosticism literally means "without knowledge," which is what we all are. So admit it, quit pretending you know something the rest of us don't.

I don't give a shit how cool you think Richard Dawkins or your local pastor are, neither one has a leg to fucking stand on.

Shut up.

[Zordana]

This post reminds me of this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4RRGq8jNQ

failtube - not available in germany -.-
way too lazy for a proxy

[kanly]

gnosticism deals with knowledge, theism deals with belief, one can be both an agnostic and an atheist, one can also be one and not the other. I would be both, i do not know if there is a god or not, nor do i believe i should worship any god. On a side note i prefer reading Hitchens as he is more entertaining. I mean no disrespect by this statement. i like what i have read of yours so far Hasbinbad so i hope you dont take offense.

btw zordana the link is the song bukowski by modest mouse, decent song.

edit: also i can understand why some people think atheists "know" that there is no god. some atheists claim this and thus would be gnostic about the idea of god. Claiming to know that there is no god in the same way that we know that people breath o2 is retarded. Though i would differentiate this from the claim that the abrahamic religions are most likely false due to what ever inconsistencies you want to show made by some

[Hogwash]

Happy Easter.
enjoy the zombie christ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_T9k_lzYcI

[Hasbinbad]

gnosticism deals with knowledge, theism deals with belief, one can be both an agnostic and an atheist, one can also be one and not the other.
I respectfully disagree with you sir.

a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhhttp://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] –noun
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

I do not see how there is room within the basic definition of atheism to simultaneously hold a belief in the non-existence of a higher power and the idea of a total lack of knowledge. The one denies the other.
I would be both, i do not know if there is a god or not, nor do i believe i should worship any god.
You say you're an atheist, but you speak as if you're an agnostic. I think you should listen to less propaganda (respectfully).
I mean no disrespect by this statement. i like what i have read of yours so far Hasbinbad so i hope you dont take offense.
Thank you for your consideration. No offense taken! :)
edit: also i can understand why some people think atheists "know" that there is no god.
It's not "some," look again at the basic definition above.
some atheists claim this and thus would be gnostic about the idea of god. Claiming to know that there is no god in the same way that we know that people breath o2 is retarded.
You say you're an atheist, but you speak as if you're an agnostic. I think you should listen to less propaganda (respectfully).
Though i would differentiate this from the claim that the abrahamic religions are most likely false due to what ever inconsistencies you want to show made by some
Contradictions seem to abound in every religion man, not just the religions of the book. The problem is discrimination. They are all equally wrong when taken literally. There is also GREAT good to be gleaned from each, contradictory or not. Think of the bible like Aesop's fables or something. Obviously a fox did not covet sour grapes in reality, but we can all learn something about sportsmanship from that story.

Again this is my essential point: people who take these things literally and spout off as if what they say is the truth are the problem. If people just took the good from the stories, the world would be a much better place. Conversely, if people continue to teach their children that the world is 6,000 years old based on the book of genesis, the population of the world will continue to wither intellectually.

[ArkhamCifre]

Nature, in the broadest sense, is equivalent to the natural world, physical world, or material world. "Nature" refers to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. It ranges in scale from the subatomic to the cosmic.
The term "nature" may refer to living plants and animals, geological processes, weather, and physics, such as matter and energy.
So basicaly nature refers to everything. Anything that can be experienced in any shape for form. Not talking about treehugging "Mother Nature" here, not nature in the sense of "the nature of something. Clear? Good?
Now deity, divinity if it can be experienced in anyway must be part of this nature, correct? ( BTW- I usualy refer to myself as a Naturalist not an atheist...but that causes a whole other bunch of problems) So a deity if it exists must be part of nature..EVEN if it created the world we percieve it is still a part of nature.
This was the logic you ignored. If a deity is part of nature then what makes it better than me? Why should I worship it? Because it's smarter? Stronger? Lives longer? IBe cause it tells me to or I will suffer its wrath? The question for this atheist is again NOT wether or not some being or beigns of this type exist..the question is why should I worship them as deities? What In my view they would simply be just another life form sharing this universe (hell multi-verse? ) with me. Maybe I can learn from them, maybe being a good old Terran I can wage war against them. But why should one life form be able to demand worship from another life form?
Do I make myself clear now? It seems we are debating to diffferent things. I feel you say I don't believe in the possibiliy of the existence of beings of great power, knowledge, whatever. I don't know one way or the other. What I do know is that if they exist they must a) be natural. b) not in any way be deserving of worship as a deity.

"It's a sort of haphazard leaning. What is not certain is the connection between the belief and objective reality."
This refered to a belief one does not feel certain of. Bad choice of words on my part. I was using belief in the sense of a deeply held belief, a "belief system". It was also a joke. Maybe it went unnoticed because it was a subtle jab at the fact that everything anyone thinks/believes is a shot in the dark. We all have beliefs about something or other...the question is just how those would match up to "reality" if somehow we could ever have a God's eye view as it were.
You don't seem to have a tlerance for shade and subtlety.

"In every way, Atheism is equally as retarded as Christianity by the same standards it's being judged by most." by Fenawin
Ok, I'm just a village idiot..bu what exactly does this mean? "by the same standards it's being judged by most"?
"Hurrrr, I'm so smart I know what happens after I die because I've been to the future where I've died. I was also there when existence was...created? Existed? Ummm? Deeeerrrrrp I'm a fucking genius and anyone with a religion or a view differing mine is less intelligent than I."
Atheism as I have pointed out again and again has nothing whatsoever to do with a belief in afterlife. You do not need deities to have an afterlife. You do not need a god to have ghosts. Now, there may be atheists who do not believe in an afterlife. But that is not what defines them AS atheist. This attempt at humor? an attack? is not based on what it MEANS TO BE ATHIEST it is an attack on assholes who go around telling everyone they know it all. This is where I say the vagueness came in. It lost focus on the making fun of belief systems which I thouroughly enjoy...ALL belief systems including my own. It attacks a group "atheist" not on what makes them atheist but the actions of people who call themselves atheist...is that clear enough?
For instance, I could make fun of Islam all day. I could say how silly it is that they believe Muhammad stepped on a rock in Jerusalem and went up to Allah. But saying that Islam is all effed up because the guy that owns the quikie mart on the corner is a prick and he's Moslem is a reflection on that one man, not on Islam.
Now your original post however was a direct saire of what it MEANS TO BE CHRISTIAN.
A cosmic zombie Jew= a risen Christ no?
His own Father= The whole mess of the Trinity.
Symbolicaly eat his flesh=Eucharist ( and actualy for most Xtian sects this is NOT symbolic but literal. The Communion actualy transmutes the bread and wine into the blood and flesh of Christ..that's so cool. Im hungry.)
Telepathicaly tell him...= pray for forgiveness etc.
Rib-woman conviced by a snake...= Adam and Eve in the Biblical story of Eden.
So yes, everything here corresponds to the doctrines of Christianity. Are there Christians who do not believe this or that part..of course. But everything here is CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE. This is a focused ( not vague? remeber that?) satire.

"This is the kind of ignorant spouting that I take issue with. You're speaking with certainty as if people WILL be atheist by default if they have some view or another."

Well yes. They will be athiest by default if they have some view or another. If they do not believe in the existsence of Gods then they ARE atheist. Or as I prefer to think if they do not believe that the mere existence of a power greater than themselves entitles that power to be revered and submitted to then I would say they fall under the definition of atheist. Which is much broader than the 2 u lifted from Dictionary.com.

"The default position is actually ignorance. The embracing of that ignorance embodies agnosticism. We are smart enough to know that there is no knowing, that knowing is beyond us, and move on. It's so frustrating to watch gullible people get trapped by liars like you."

It may interest you or maybe not that I was a practicing Buddhist. That statement is very Buddha like..not the crap that the Tibetans practice or even Zen from Japan but Theravada which is a sort of fundementalist Buddhism that rejects all teachings not directly from the Buddha. Kind of like if a Xtian sect only took the direct quotes of Jesus and noone of the commentary, life stories etc. The Buddha did not care wether or not Brahama or gods existed because they were so far beyond comprehension they did not matter. You are slightly correct. I am agnostic in the sense you refer to. I don't know if there are gods or not. And dont realy care because these "gods" if they exist in no way are commanding of my worship ,sumittal or whatever. That is athieistic. Read more definitions. To the point again...the mere existence of a power greater than I does not equte that these powers are deities in the sense of a being to be worshiped.

And all this because you Sir cannot stand people who are not agnostic because somehow that threatens you. I had a complaint about Fenawins post because I felt it was not realy a good attack/paradoy what have you because it didnt realy use the SINGLE belief that makes an atheist an atheist but an attack on atheism by proxy using assholes who claim to know it all.

I have never once said that anyone who is not an atheist is wrong. I have never said I am right in my atheism yet you act as I am on a mission to convert you. The closest I came was saying to Hey think for yourself..just WTF is a deity? Now if that thought leads you to conclude as I have then that's cool. If not well then that's cool. I didn't say think about it and agree with me or die. Just to think about it.

And you are playing games by saying all Agnosticism means is without knowledge. While that may be the literal meaning of the word it is used all most invariably in religio-metaphysical context. O and maybe you should look at Agnostic Atheism it does exist. Because these terms do have shades of meaning allowing them to be combined into a coherent system.
As to the reference to Dawkins or a pastor. Instead we should listen to you is the implication.

You seem to feel that anyone who says anything you do not like is spouting off like they know everything. What I know it what I think. If i say what I think it doesn't mean I "know I'm right" it means that either I'm sharing in the hope of learning. Putting my opinon out because I feel like it or doing what people do, which is talk.

ME:"I find if so funny that people cannot accept that some else thinks"
YOU:"Take your own advice"
And you proceed to tell me how I'm wrong. Which is great that's debate. Of course you have to call names and the like because that's what people do when they feel threatned because others won't think just like them. You are the religous intolerant here. You keep telling people what to beleive and yelling about how others (me) are trying to tell you what to believe.
I'd like to sit around making fun of beliefs..being able to laugh at ourselves and others is what makes life great for me. Or, I'd like to debate just why a certain belief is better. But I will never tell you that what you believe is wrong, it's just not what I believe. Of course I'll think you're an idiot but my thoughts are mine. You and Xenu stay out of my head. But all that comes crashing down when people like yourself cannot get past screaming that people are know it alls just because they say something.

[Ektar]

holy crap. I'm at work so I got a GIANT monitor. like, you wouldn't understand. longer than my... but I'll stop there.


Anyway, that last post right there? giant. Giant on a giant monitor. I love philosophical debate of god etc but I can't. I just can't.
I mean. Tracking the next line from the right side of the screen to the left is so hard. I just. I can't.

[ArkhamCifre]

lol...always good to kill Nazis.
Ok Hasbinbad...how about this...I'm an Agnostic Heretic?
Agnostic in that I don't know if there are "gods" or not.
Heretic in that if they do exist then I don't believe that it's right to worship them and would revolt against it?
I don't believe that any being no matter their power has the innate right to be worshiped or to any other adoration/submittal solely on the basis of that power?

[ArkhamCifre]

Hasbinbad:"I don't care what YOU believe, but when atheists speak with certainty about their belief, they are lying, because they honestly don't know shit"

A few things here.
So if anyone says anything about any belief that has not been scientificaly verified they are liars? They cannot simply be wrong? Or maybe they are simply going on the "best estimate" they can make with the information they have ..no,no they are liars.

Some people, as hard as it may seem, having the exact same set of data can come to differing conclusions.
I heard somewhere that this has actualy happened in science.
So, a person who having thought it over. Having looked at all the data they have collected over their lives and seeing no evidence for the existence of Divine Powers chooses to live their life according to that interpretation (which is what all knowledge is isn't it? An interpretation of that data availabe?) is a liar if they at any time stated that belief in any form for others to hear or see? They cannot simply be wrong. Or ,there is no way that they perhaps feel that it's best for them, in their lifes framework, to choose a stand on a subject that isn't realy verifiable but nonetheless a cornerstone of human culture? No, I forgot they are liars.
So, if i took a test and someone asked me how I did and I said "I think(believe) I did well" and it turned out I failed..I'm not sadly mistaken, I am a liar. I see how this works.
That is how you kill any and all ideas that you don't like.

[Ektar]

So yeah. I've induced that religion is merely a tool of rationalizing the universe. People must always be able to understand how sometime happens - whether it be the actual way or not. A very good example is that IB gets a lot of raid mobs, so they must have a linux packet sniffing box to tell them when a mob will spawn (lol see what I did there). This is a rationalization of the universe in that it gives an explanation to that which could not be explained.


This is what religion has done all throughout the history of mankind.

What causes a hurricane?
Before Science: "WE ARE BEING PUNISHED BY THE GODS"
After Science: "Area of low pressure which begins to rotate due to the coriolis effect picks up moisture yada yada yada"

Where do babies come from?
You get the point yeah.


The biggest question being, of course, the, uh, big question. Meaning of life, the creation the end, all that.

Just like the mysterious hurricane was later discovered to have a grounded cause, so do I conjecture that the creation of the universe, what is beyond the universe, what is the end of time, ... , can be explained in a likewise grounded fashion. Whether it is a matter of time for science to discover this or it's completely beyond the maximum potential of science is irrelevant.


So relating back to the current discussion which yes, I still have skipped that last post =p. Refer back to my veeeery first thing up there (not so yeah): I induce. I've taken non conclusive evidence to form a theory. I am quite aware of the problems, such as hurricanes being explained by science does not imply, by any means, that another "at one time" unexplainable event can later be explained. I openly say I, beyond am not, cannot be sure.

I still think I'm atheist, no?

[ArkhamCifre]

I like your point Ektar. Being atheist does not imply that you claim to KNOW. It is the belief that you feel fits best. You do not believe in gods becuase you see no evidence. Could you be wrong? Of course. This does not imho make you agnostic. It makes you realistic. You can always be wrong on anything. But that's no reason to not have opinons about things that you feel you have seen enough to judge. I can not believe something is going to happen and still be realistic enough to know that I don't know absolutely it won't happen.

And that every thing can be explained given sufficient knowledge..in other words nothing is SUPERnatural. Nothing is beyond reality. Even if we can't see that far ourselves. That has been my point. What if Zues was real? What if he came down and said worship me. Would you? Why, because he's more powerful than you? Becuase you owe him a debt? Because you're supposed to?

[ArkhamCifre]

If you want a fuller view of atheism I recommend the Wikipaedia article- in particular the etymology. This gives great detail on the word from ancient Greek origins till now and the fights over just what it means. It has been used in so many ways that it has a big umbrella under which I know I fit. I'd say read the origins of the word, the changes it has undergone, the meanings it has and decide for yourself if it fits you or not. Not what someone else tells you words or beliefs mean.

[Hasbinbad]

lol dude.. your blatant lack of respect for the language you're choosing to communicate in prevents me from talking to you any further.

I read your rhetoric, i'm just not going to address a single thing you said.. ..very much like you did to me, but with completely different intent
.
I took your points and directly addressed them. You loosely quoted things I said and went off on crazy tangents.

You sir, have below average intelligence and poor penmanship.

[ooantipostoo]

I also find this very offensive, what were you trying to get out of this? Why are you so ignorant you need to take a shot at someones religious beliefs ? Instead you would rather post something without even having respect for others. This shows that your low life scum and care about no one but yourself. Lost all my respect with this one.

--This is my last response to this subject and will not acknowledge any replays.

[Hasbinbad]

I also find this very offensive
I find priests touching little boys offensive, that doesn't stop them.
what were you trying to get out of this?
Nothing.
Why are you so ignorant you need to take a shot at someones religious beliefs ?
I didn't. Read my posts carefully instead of skimming them and assuming you know what I'm talking about. I never said a single bad thing about any religion, only the people in religions.
Instead you would rather post something without even having respect for others.
My respect for people in general is very low, based on 31 years of experience dealing with an extremely diverse cross section of Americans. Can it be any other way to a thoughtful person?
This shows that your low life scum and care about no one but yourself.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but again, I think that this sentiment is based on what you assumed I wrote, rather than what I actually wrote. If you would take a moment and get rid of your ignorance on the subject, I think you could clearly see that.
Lost all my respect with this one.
Good. I would rather not be esteemed by those who make snap judgments based on ignorance.
--This is my last response to this subject and will not acknowledge any replays.
Soo, insult me a bunch of times and then hide because you know you wouldn't stand a chance in an actual exchange of ideas with me..
Great hit and run tactics, coward.

[ooantipostoo]

I find priests touching little boys offensive, that doesn't stop them.

Nothing.

I didn't. Read my posts carefully instead of skimming them and assuming you know what I'm talking about. I never said a single bad thing about any religion, only the people in religions.

My respect for people in general is very low, based on 31 years of experience dealing with an extremely diverse cross section of Americans. Can it be any other way to a thoughtful person?

I'm sorry you feel that way, but again, I think that this sentiment is based on what you assumed I wrote, rather than what I actually wrote. If you would take a moment and get rid of your ignorance on the subject, I think you could clearly see that.

Good. I would rather not be esteemed by those who make snap judgments based on ignorance.

Soo, insult me a bunch of times and then hide because you know you wouldn't stand a chance in an actual exchange of ideas with me..
Great hit and run tactics, coward.


First off the picture it self with the quote under it was sacrilegious (to some), Thus I stand by what I said.

Second I'm sorry you generalize Americans because your surrounded by "extremely diverse cross section of Americans". It is your choice on who you surround yourself with, maybe you attract these "people" with your always negitive views of everything?

I am no coward, Id just rather not bring religion into a game when i'm here to have fun. That being said I just would rather not have this kind of stuff brought up. I know everyone has there own view of things and I respect that completely. I just felt you were attacking a certain group of people and no one deserves that.

[Hasbinbad]

First off the picture it self with the quote under it was sacrilegious (to some), Thus I stand by what I said.
Sacrilege is something that does not concern me. The picture is hilarious, and embodies the Christ myth perfectly from a certain point of view. If you seriously believe the stories of the bible are literally true, you're kind of dumb. Sorry.
Second I'm sorry you generalize Americans because your surrounded by "extremely diverse cross section of Americans". It is your choice on who you surround yourself with, maybe you attract these "people" with your always negitive views of everything?
I don't, nor did I say that I did. I said that my level of respect for people is low. That being said, I am open minded and give people the benefit of the doubt if they want to change my views. I was simply trying to say that I don't respect people until they earn it.
I am no coward, Id just rather not bring religion into a game when i'm here to have fun.
When you read the sub-forum title, what part of "Off-Topic" did you not understand?
That being said I just would rather not have this kind of stuff brought up.
Of course you don't want it brought up. Logic makes you feel uncomfortable because it undermines your worldview.
I know everyone has there own view of things and I respect that completely.
Obviously not. Nice try tho, I like how you say specific things and then say you don't believe the things you said. You're cute.
I just felt you were attacking a certain group of people and no one deserves that.
I did. ..and yes they fucking do deserve it.
To paraphrase Bill Maher:
The catholic church has a much longer, more illustrious, and more terrible history of institutional rape, executions, murder, and hatred than the nazi's. People seem to be concerned that the new pope is a nazi, when they should be concerned that this nazi guy is a catholic.

Even today, all over the world, catholic priests touch little boys, and various sects of various religions are full of similarly disturbing stories. It's funny how those who dost protest too much are often the very people who commit the most egregious crimes.

To be absolutely crystal clear, I think Jesus was an alright guy. He went around being revolutionary and espousing views that were at once transcendent and realistic. He was persecuted by those who were afraid of his message and the empowerment of the meek. There is not a lot that he is credited with saying that I disagree with. If he was alive today, I would probably follow his path. Whether or not he is the son of god, whether or not he ever claimed to be.. ..I have to cast dispersions, because there is absolutely no physical evidence of any such thing, and all writings about him were from LONG after his death.

I have said in this thread that I respect the morals of the stories of the bible and the various other holy books (except maybe the book of mormon, joe smith was a fruitcake.. ..lol.. ..oh, and dianetics, L.R.R. Hubbardkein is a great sci fi author, but people took his fruity little club WAY too seriously). I think there is a lot that people can learn from these stories, and I truly believe that the original authors wrote these stories to be taken with a grain of salt, not literally. The organizations that came after were involved with power struggles and corruption to a degree that has NEVER been equaled in any area ever.

I'm seriously not trying to diss you for your beliefs dude, and if you read my posts instead of skimming them, you would know that. Seriously, your personal relationship with a higher power is none of my business, and as an agnostic I do not claim to know what is right. Your view has an equal chance of being true as anyone elses as far as I'm concerned, and it very well may be that a cosmic jewish zombie who is his own father created existence. Who knows?

[ooantipostoo]

Sacrilege is something that does not concern me. The picture is hilarious, and embodies the Christ myth perfectly from a certain point of view. If you seriously believe the stories of the bible are literally true, you're kind of dumb. Sorry.

I don't, nor did I say that I did. I said that my level of respect for people is low. That being said, I am open minded and give people the benefit of the doubt if they want to change my views. I was simply trying to say that I don't respect people until they earn it.

When you read the sub-forum title, what part of "Off-Topic" did you not understand?

Of course you don't want it brought up. Logic makes you feel uncomfortable because it undermines your worldview.

Obviously not. Nice try tho, I like how you say specific things and then say you don't believe the things you said. You're cute.

I did. ..and yes they fucking do deserve it.
To paraphrase Bill Maher:
The catholic church has a much longer, more illustrious, and more terrible history of institutional rape, executions, murder, and hatred than the nazi's. People seem to be concerned that the new pope is a nazi, when they should be concerned that this nazi guy is a catholic.

Even today, all over the world, catholic priests touch little boys, and various sects of various religions are full of similarly disturbing stories. It's funny how those who dost protest too much are often the very people who commit the most egregious crimes.

To be absolutely crystal clear, I think Jesus was an alright guy. He went around being revolutionary and espousing views that were at once transcendent and realistic. He was persecuted by those who were afraid of his message and the empowerment of the meek. There is not a lot that he is credited with saying that I disagree with. If he was alive today, I would probably follow his path. Whether or not he is the son of god, whether or not he ever claimed to be.. ..I have to cast dispersions, because there is absolutely no physical evidence of any such thing, and all writings about him were from LONG after his death.

I have said in this thread that I respect the morals of the stories of the bible and the various other holy books (except maybe the book of mormon, joe smith was a fruitcake.. ..lol.. ..oh, and dianetics, L.R.R. Hubbardkein is a great sci fi author, but people took his fruity little club WAY too seriously). I think there is a lot that people can learn from these stories, and I truly believe that the original authors wrote these stories to be taken with a grain of salt, not literally. The organizations that came after were involved with power struggles and corruption to a degree that has NEVER been equaled in any area ever.

I'm seriously not trying to diss you for your beliefs dude, and if you read my posts instead of skimming them, you would know that. Seriously, your personal relationship with a higher power is none of my business, and as an agnostic I do not claim to know what is right. Your view has an equal chance of being true as anyone elses as far as I'm concerned, and it very well may be that a cosmic jewish zombie who is his own father created existence. Who knows?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a21/raxilian/orly.jpg


This is why I didn't wany to respond to any of this, Imo this whole rant you just wrote is pure ignorance. You just feed for a good debate, its your way or no way.

[Finawin]

I think he went at it fairly well. It's better than most of the drivel people say in OOC rife with ignorance.

"lol ur god is a man in the sky" and such...

I am by no means a religious man. I just find anyone arrogant enough to say they know the ultimate workings of the universe, and existence itself, is fucking retarded.

[Hasbinbad]

Imo this whole rant you just wrote is pure ignorance.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k15/TheGreatUrameshi13/General/Opinions.jpg?t=1270412237

[Hasbinbad]

I am by no means a religious man. I just find anyone arrogant enough to say they know the ultimate workings of the universe, and existence itself, is fucking retarded.
This.

[ooantipostoo]

This.

I never said mine was right, pointing out the fact that YOU targeted a specific group of people saying what YOU believe. I was defending the apposing side is all no one needs to be harassed.

[Hasbinbad]

I never said mine was right, pointing out the fact that YOU targeted a specific group of people saying what YOU believe. I was defending the apposing side is all no one needs to be harassed.
While I can respect what you are saying now, and will take it as face value and not hold your previous words against you in my future interactions with you, it would seem that this statement is in conflict with your previous statements. Can't we all just get along?

[Malrubius]

So much hate and intolerance. Reminds me of people *in my family* (cry) who constantly put down other people because they believe in god or don't believe in god. Or because the are vegetarian. Or because they eat meat. Or because they are a Democrat. Or because they are a Republican.

WTF is wrong with people that they feel like they HAVE to judge others or they don't feel complete?

I f*cking can't stand intolerant people!!! (<-- intentional irony, laugh)

[Hasbinbad]

I f*cking can't stand intolerant people!!! (<-- intentional irony, laugh)
There are two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.

[ooantipostoo]

While I can respect what you are saying now, and will take it as face value and not hold your previous words against you in my future interactions with you, it would seem that this statement is in conflict with your previous statements. Can't we all just get along?


I apologize for snapping at you and calling you ignorant, I just took the first picture quote a little to the heart. You could of worded your views a little differently, I also could of replayed to this with alot cooler headed.

[Hasbinbad]

I apologize for snapping at you and calling you ignorant, I just took the first picture quote a little to the heart. You could of worded your views a little differently, I also could of replayed to this with alot cooler headed.
Totally appreciate that dude, and I agree that my post was probably in poor taste. I was thinking the pictures and my sentiment was light hearted, but if I actually offended you, I'm sorry because offending was not my intention.

Like I said before I respect your right to your views and opinions, and I believe they have every chance of being true as anyone elses'.

You seem like an alright guy, and I would prefer to be your friend than antagonistic. I'm glad we can not hate.

Peas and carrots dude.

[Ektar]

...didn't see that plot twist coming.

[Aeolwind]

Many of you have had interactions with me....would you believe that I was raised a southern baptist? I'm of the ilk that no religion is 100% correct, too many texts mention Jesus, both secular and non-secular, to have the stance that he wasn't a man here on earth. Not only that, he felt so strongly about his position & his ideals that he was willing to die for them in an unbelievable painful manner is extremely noble. He could have been smuggled out of the Middle East and into Greece or Crete where scholars were revered and protected and lived a full and dedicated life. And, while many would disagree, most of the tenants that lie at the core of most religions (10 Commandments for example) when viewed as nothing more than a code to live by, would make the world a better place.

With that said, on both ends of the spectrum Fanaticism and Atheism are equally wrong. We live in shades of gray on a day to day basis, but in some sort of surreal cosmic or benevolent joke there are 10 rules that could remove the gray. Convincing 6 billion people not to lie? Ever? Surely you jest.

With all that said, I think the last estimate I saw was the 95% of the world still believed in the existence of some higher power, be it God, Yahweh, Buddha, or any other hundreds of different interpretations, all with the general concept of: "Be cool with each other". Yet people still try to kill and maim each other because they have a different name for their Almighty. Mans downfall is not the existence of religion, nor the absence, mans downfall is himself and his own arrogance and ignorance. Two traits that are as far from a divine being as can be. Some of the greatest atrocities have been carried out on the world in the name of religion, and by that same token some of the greatest care-givers and benefactors the world has ever known have done so under that same flag.

In closing, Scientology is weird.

[Ektar]

Can't we just cut the fat around the 10 commandments (and other like creeds), stop the lies that is religion and just live by that code? Like, here, these are good ideas! Pass them down to your children and children's children. Not the whole song and dance about jewish zombies.

I guess it's a best fit if people are incapable of accepting a moral code and instead must be fed these lies to trick them into following the code. But my belief system hinges on everyone should ideally be like me (as everyone does), so that's why I think that's silly.

Sorry for calling religion lies to those that would take offense but I'm running out of bullshit time at work and I don't have the patience to come up with a suitable change of words to convey my meaning while not using the word lie.








And yeah, about the rest:
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz162/Postorofpictures/1013_ostrich_riders.jpg

[Hasbinbad]

Many of you have had interactions with me....would you believe that I was raised a southern baptist? I'm of the ilk that no religion is 100% correct, too many texts mention Jesus, both secular and non-secular, to have the stance that he wasn't a man here on earth. Not only that, he felt so strongly about his position & his ideals that he was willing to die for them in an unbelievable painful manner is extremely noble. He could have been smuggled out of the Middle East and into Greece or Crete where scholars were revered and protected and lived a full and dedicated life. And, while many would disagree, most of the tenants that lie at the core of most religions (10 Commandments for example) when viewed as nothing more than a code to live by, would make the world a better place.

With that said, on both ends of the spectrum Fanaticism and Atheism are equally wrong. We live in shades of gray on a day to day basis, but in some sort of surreal cosmic or benevolent joke there are 10 rules that could remove the gray. Convincing 6 billion people not to lie? Ever? Surely you jest.

With all that said, I think the last estimate I saw was the 95% of the world still believed in the existence of some higher power, be it God, Yahweh, Buddha, or any other hundreds of different interpretations, all with the general concept of: "Be cool with each other". Yet people still try to kill and maim each other because they have a different name for their Almighty. Mans downfall is not the existence of religion, nor the absence, mans downfall is himself and his own arrogance and ignorance. Two traits that are as far from a divine being as can be. Some of the greatest atrocities have been carried out on the world in the name of religion, and by that same token some of the greatest care-givers and benefactors the world has ever known have done so under that same flag.

In closing, Scientology is weird.
You're pretty cool dude. I like the way you think.
Nice Bill&Ted reference! George Carlin is teh awesome!

I slightly disagree with ignorance being man's downfall. Ignorance is the natural state, and not really negative. Acting on ignorance or arrogantly ignoring facts and acting is the problem, imo.

[Aeolwind]

As an aside, here is an interesting article. Theologian or not, this is wicked dope.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1910141_1910142_1910139,00.html

I remember reading the Time article in reference here. I think overall, I just can't put my faith in the fact that us being here is one astronomically oddity that is in essence a cosmic joke. To strike a correlation; most folks look for adversity. They strive on it as they feel overcoming it gives them a sense of purpose. If all of that is for naught, then why do we live and die?

[Spud]

And yeah, about the rest:
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz162/Postorofpictures/1013_ostrich_riders.jpg

Hahahha best episode ever

http://images.southparkstudios.com/img/content/news/2880a.jpg

Suck my balls K-10, im not in the mood

[Ektar]

To strike a correlation; most folks look for adversity. They strive on it as they feel overcoming it gives them a sense of purpose. If all of that is for naught, then why do we live and die?

Gonna go out front and say it, I didn't read the article. I'm not a big reader. I'm currently in an eq withdrawal phase and perhaps will get to it later.

However my thought on this line~ Religion is a big part of rationalizing the universe in that it gives people a sense of purpose. If people realized life is meaningless they wouldn't do shit. Think about being terminal and dying in a month. Then add on top there is no god or afterlife. Only thing ya got left is "leaving your mark on the world." And lemme take that away from ya real fast - you no longer exist so who gives a fuck. You have no consciousness; no being. What's the difference if your name is in a textbook, or your children are happy.. or whatev. You don't exiiiiist.

Why do we live? Meh, just kinda happened.. proteins combined or some crap? Evolution is just some passive thing that occurred because every being along the line rationalized his existence to have purpose. Perhaps it's even a PART of evolution - just like he with black fur survived for whatever reason, he with the natural tendency to rationalize his existence survived because he cared more.
So I mean, that's why we live... we live because of the uncountable mutations that occurred along the line to bring us to how we are now. Why do we die? Well, because we expire aaand whatever else science came up with. No one's adapted to death yet!

But I mean, the bottom line being we're not even a blip on the scheme of the universe. Consciousness happened to spark and evolve to what it is today.. but it could have just not and whatthefuckever.