Custom PVP thoughts and potential problems.

[mimixownzall]

Instead of replying on the other thread that Rogean responded with the quote I'm about to put up, I decided to make a fresh thread to address this issue that seems to be at the fore front of the PvP server.

Before I begin I want to say that none of this is personal. Null really seems to be a pretty cool guy and I think we would be best pals IRL if we met. The same with Rogean and company though I'm sure he would get tired of my nagging computer questions I would hound him with every day. We all appreciate your time and effort in giving us the opportunity to relive our wasted youth that we spent in the EQ world. Now for the main subject:

What's funny is that you guys seem to think we were going to strictly adhere to 'classic' for the pvp server. On the contrary we would like to make it somewhat interesting and fun for everyone. Call it Custom Classic if you want, I don't give a shit.

This is fine but I thought I would point out some things that could potentially be problematic in the future if you continue to go with the custom route.

If you are going with the custom content could you please change the name of the server to something like "Classic Project 1999 content with custom balanced PvP" or something to that effect? If people see "Classic PVP" in the title, that is what they are going to expect. Expectations and first impressions are everything. If someone comes in expecting classic PVP they are going to be disappointed and will leave.

You possibly create a shit-storm when you throw out the 'but that is classic' rebuttal. You think people whine now? It will be 10x worse when people get on and start bitching that their class sucks... this other class is way OP, reduce this class's damage, up this classes damage. It will get really bad. What will be next? Diminishing returns? Wow is a good example of what happens when you try to perfectly balance pvp between all classes and make CC spells viable and not easily resisted. Every class has some stun/fear/root/snare. EQ is all about defined class roles which no other MMO has anymore. Again, if you stay with classic, then you can say "that is classic" and leave it up to that person to do the research and prove otherwise.
I feel that this is the main issue I struggle with. I think you could possibly be setting yourself up for a lot of headaches. I don't want you guys getting frustrated to the point of just saying "fuck it".

Another argument was going to be how custom pvp servers fail. After some thought I decided that the custom content and items were what really sucked about the other failed pvp servers, so I will just leave that one alone.

TL;DR summary: People know classic. People love classic. That is the whole point you guys created the P99 server and why it has been so successful. Don't open yourself up to more of a headache by going outside the lines of your original classic agenda.

Also, can we please have an intelligent discussion about this without all the douchebaggery name-calling? Remember, this isn't RnF.

[Wonton]

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

[loopholbrook]

I think by custom classic he meant that PvP won't be strictly classic Rallos Zek PvP. I'm pretty sure that no custom content is going to be added.

[Softcore PK]

So it's different from classic. What does that really matter? Classic EQ pvp was unbalanced and broken, as I'm sure we all remember. Maybe Null will work to fix some of these imbalances, and things will actually be better. If not, though, then it's still not a big deal. We're used to broken, right?

Everything will be fine.

[mimixownzall]

please note OP is the same person who told me he played on a blue server (tribunal) in velious, and considers velious as classic.

These are the fucking RETARDS posting this shit. Here's your rants and flames for you, faggot, stop making threads when youre a fucking bluebie who never played a day of classic eq, pvp or not. You started in VELIOUS on a BLUE SERVER and you're telling us that "people remember classic" lol, and made a thread the other day posting about HOW YOU HAD PROOF SOMETHING WASNT CLASSIC and backed it up with a 2001 post.

YOU FUCKING SUCK. GO KILL YOURSELF FAGGOT, hows that for rants and flames, pussy

rogaine/null do work, ignore these faggots

I knew this ritalin-depraved rage was coming. You do not disappoint.

First off I said I started on the Tribunal server after some QWTF guys talked me and a friend into playing (I'm not going to count my necro I made not long after release that I ditched after getting lost in Neriak with no idea wtf was going on and what to do next). This was around first quarter of 2000 (clearly before Velious).

My first PVP experience was on SZ which was released after Velious was released. Saying "Classic" is lumping up the original EQ with the first 2 expansions. I have seen it said that this is what people consider classic because Sony went too crazy with SoL. But if arguing semantics makes you feel better, go for it.

and you're telling us that "people remember classic" lol, and made a thread the other day posting about HOW YOU HAD PROOF SOMETHING WASNT CLASSIC and backed it up with a 2001 post.

After spending some time reading what you typed, I finally (I think) caught on to what you were trying to get across. I didn't have my 10 year old nephew here to decipher it for me, so it took some time.

I assume you are talking about the line of site issue about there not being a LoS check at all when casting detrimental and beneficial spells. I remembered there not being a check on SZ so I did some research to see if I could find something to either support or dispute my claim. I found the post you are talking about and it said that there was no LoS check in pvp and hadn't been one ever. Well, guess what, rocket scientist? That is inclusive to "Classic" everquest up to 2001 when the post was posted.

So continue, please. Let's see how many X's you can add to your name from the number of bans you receive for your flaming rages. We can all sit back, point and laugh like we were on IRC the other night.

[mimixownzall]

So it's different from classic. What does that really matter? Classic EQ pvp was unbalanced and broken, as I'm sure we all remember. Maybe Null will work to fix some of these imbalances, and things will actually be better. If not, though, then it's still not a big deal. We're used to broken, right?

Everything will be fine.

Hey, I will play and give it a shot. I was just trying to be helpful by pointing out some possible disasters and headaches. If Null and company are ready for the long haul, then great! I would hate to see their real lives suffer and both servers suffer from them getting fed up with all the drama and bickering that is to come when 'keep it classic' cuts out 95% of it. I mean look, it's only beta and you have people like cast acting the way they do.

[DarthPeon]

off topic, but what was your name during qwtf era?

[Galacticus]

If you are going with the custom content could you please change the name of the server to something like "Classic Project 1999 content with custom balanced PvP" or something to that effect? If people see "Classic PVP" in the title, that is what they are going to expect. Expectations and first impressions are everything. If someone comes in expecting classic PVP they are going to be disappointed and will leave.

ITS CALLED BETA RIGHT NOW...

[mimixownzall]

I was MiniKin.

I also went as A Backstreet Boy on the i'm12 server.

[DarthPeon]

Not familar with that name, but good times.

Handle was GODspeed, I played for [im12], [M], GT prior to eq being released, Jingwu later. For about a few months after EQ release the top competitive scene died as everyone rolled on the Cazic Thule server.

Fun fact, Jingwu which started in the 2nd coming of TF (about 6 months after eq release) was led and consisted of 5 eq devs. (bungle (Joe Russo), suntzu (Thomas Q), Khalid (Lawrence poe), and 2 other guys i forget...)

Mike Morhaime who went on to lead LoS as Ariel on nameless also played TF, with the handle Se7en, he was a badass medic. He's kind of a big dawg now :)

[Melveny]

My 2 cent.

I am not against classic only, but I am also not against slight custom alterations for the better of the server and better for pvp.

A lot of you need to understand, it may not be classic but certain changes were made on live to fix GAME BREAKING flaws that effect pvp. Being able to charm or fear players was removed for good reason, classic yes, game breaking yes, good for pvp no. Pets zoneing is huge, they drop here so IDK how you people are dieing to any mage at all, not to mention they cant see debuffs on pets to know when to dispell, game breaking. Bards with the charm drop of pets, classic yes, game breaking and not good for pvp yes.

Anyway, Rogean and Null are not here to make a shitty server that people wont enjoy. It will have the classic content we ALL enjoy, with slight pvp modifications to make the pvp experience enjoyable no matter the class.

Also please keep in mind, the above game breaking references are not things i am saying should be in game or will be in game. I am just providing examples, keep the trolling to the minimum.

[mimixownzall]

Not familar with that name, but good times.

Handle was GODspeed, I played for [im12], [M], GT prior to eq being released, Jingwu later. For about a few months after EQ release the top competitive scene died as everyone rolled on the Cazic Thule server.

Fun fact, Jingwu which started in the 2nd coming of TF (about 6 months after eq release) was led and consisted of 5 eq devs. (bungle (Joe Russo), suntzu (Thomas Q), Khalid (Lawrence poe), and 2 other guys i forget...)

Mike Morhaime who went on to lead LoS as Ariel on nameless also played TF, with the handle Se7en, he was a badass medic. He's kind of a big dawg now :)


That's pretty awesome. I remember GODspeed. Do you remember Type O-? He's a RL friend and will be playing on the PVP server.

I didn't get into the clan scene until later. I was in APr and MP. MC is the guy who got us into EQ.

[Billbike]

My 2 cent.

I am not against classic only, but I am also not against slight custom alterations for the better of the server and better for pvp.

A lot of you need to understand, it may not be classic but certain changes were made on live to fix GAME BREAKING flaws that effect pvp. Being able to charm or fear players was removed for good reason, classic yes, game breaking yes, good for pvp no. Pets zoneing is huge, they drop here so IDK how you people are dieing to any mage at all, not to mention they cant see debuffs on pets to know when to dispell, game breaking. Bards with the charm drop of pets, classic yes, game breaking and not good for pvp yes.

Anyway, Rogean and Null are not here to make a shitty server that people wont enjoy. It will have the classic content we ALL enjoy, with slight pvp modifications to make the pvp experience enjoyable no matter the class.

Also please keep in mind, the above game breaking references are not things i am saying should be in game or will be in game. I am just providing examples, keep the trolling to the minimum.

http://troll.me/images/dos-equis-man/i-agree.jpg

[Palemoon]

Good post Melveny, I agree.

The only people argueing for "plz make me immune to all magic after 100 MR" are the random PK's who are not interested in Everquest at all, besides the fact it makes a grand theater to grief in due to corpse runs, xp loss, etc.

[DarthPeon]

That's pretty awesome. I remember GODspeed. Do you remember Type O-? He's a RL friend and will be playing on the PVP server.

I didn't get into the clan scene until later. I was in APr and MP. MC is the guy who got us into EQ.

Nice old school teams, i want to say you played a scout or medic? but my memory is hazy. Ya I remember MC and Type-O - he was old school sniper as well. Good memories about original TF all around.

[Lovely]

Whatever the devs make I'm sure it will be great

[mimixownzall]

Good post Melveny, I agree.

The only people argueing for "plz make me immune to all magic after 100 MR" are the random PK's who are not interested in Everquest at all, besides the fact it makes a grand theater to grief in due to corpse runs, xp loss, etc.

I honestly can't even begin to express how uninformed and out-right stupid this post is. Really... think a little bit before you post please.

[mimixownzall]

Nice old school teams, i want to say you played a scout or medic? but my memory is hazy. Ya I remember MC and Type-O - he was old school sniper as well. Good memories about original TF all around.

I was a "jack of all trades" guy. I played about every position out there both O and D.

[Cymbal]

Melv i like what u said

Im all about tweaking the game to make it more balanced.

But the resist system needs a look at. And trust me i plan on rolling a caster

But you people gotta realize this game is too "caster friendly"

1) Overpowered channeling
2) levitate exploits
3) shadowstep
4) Nerfed resists

If your going to nerf resists to the point where melees can get cced u have to do something else ot make it more fair

nerf channeling? i duno but christ... game will NOT be fun

[Silikten]

play before you complain. #1 rule of fight club????

[Cymbal]

Im actually embarrased to say ive played more eq than most

but i they should be going the opposite way with resists, make them stronger across the board imo

[Lovely]

My 2 cent.

I am not against classic only, but I am also not against slight custom alterations for the better of the server and better for pvp.

A lot of you need to understand, it may not be classic but certain changes were made on live to fix GAME BREAKING flaws that effect pvp. Being able to charm or fear players was removed for good reason, classic yes, game breaking yes, good for pvp no. Pets zoneing is huge, they drop here so IDK how you people are dieing to any mage at all, not to mention they cant see debuffs on pets to know when to dispell, game breaking. Bards with the charm drop of pets, classic yes, game breaking and not good for pvp yes.

Anyway, Rogean and Null are not here to make a shitty server that people wont enjoy. It will have the classic content we ALL enjoy, with slight pvp modifications to make the pvp experience enjoyable no matter the class.

Also please keep in mind, the above game breaking references are not things i am saying should be in game or will be in game. I am just providing examples, keep the trolling to the minimum.

Thumbs up! I agree