Project 1999 Featured at TenTonHammer - Now Public

[Rogean]

Greetings,

Ten Ton Hammer (Http://www.tentonhammer.com) has recently published an article about Project 1999 and the classic Everquest experience. The article was originally for premium members but is now available to the public.

I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with Nilbog and me and featuring us in this article. I expect that this may bring a handful of new players to our classic experience. :)

The direct article link is http://www.tentonhammer.com/features/everquest/nostalgia.

Thanks,

-Rogean

Edit: The article is now open to the public.

[nilbog]

Thanks everyone.

Without the beta testers and players, Norrath would cease to exist as it currently does.

[Zithax]

Could the article be copied/pasted for us p99-goers? I'm sure many of us would like to read it before mondaaaaay

[Gorgetrapper]

Hmm, never heard of that site before, but by the sounds of it, looks like it could bring a nice influx of players. Both bad and good of course.

[guineapig]

Ten ton hammer used to be one of my go to sites on a daily basis back in the day. Grats guys!

[Salty]

One Year Membership $19.95
Two Year Membership $29.95
Five Year Membership $49.95
Lifetime Membership $99.95

To read the article.

[Haynar]

To read the article.
Or wait til Monday - Priceless

[Rogean]

Do not paste the article. If you want to read it you will have to wait until Monday or pay for a subscription.

[Hasbinbad]

Nilbog and me
Nilbog and I
Fix'd

[Rogean]

Fix'd

Actually, you are incorrect. In that context, I am grammatically correct.

The rule to keep in mind for the difference is to take out the other person and see which one sounds correct:

Correct: I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with Nilbog and me
Correct: I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with me
Incorrect: I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with Nilbog and I
Incorrect: I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with I

If it had been at the beginning of the sentence, then it would be the other way around:

Correct: Nilbog and I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with us
Correct: I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with us
Incorrect: Nilbog and me wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with us
Incorrect: Me wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with us

[Shannacore]

Haha, yay grammar!

Grats tho! I bet it feels nice to see stuff like this for all the work you guys do.

[Zordana]

Actually, you are incorrect. In that context, I am grammatically correct.

The rule to keep in mind for the difference is to take out the other person and see which one sounds correct:






If it had been at the beginning of the sentence, then it would be the other way around:



i lol'd

[Brund the Decrepit]

Fantastic, can't wait until Monday to give it a read.

[Jeebus]

grammataowned lol

Its good to see that. I am sure it will bring in at least a few more players.

[Hasbinbad]

Actually, you are incorrect. In that context, I am grammatically correct.
The rule to keep in mind for the difference is to take out the other person and see which one sounds correct:
If it had been at the beginning of the sentence, then it would be the other way around:
I would like to see that in some form of published grammar manual, but I'll take it at face value and bow to you. If it's true, then I'll be damned! :D

[Ektar]

"Nilbog and I" - subject of the sentence

"Nilbog and me" - predicate of the sentence


Ben de la Durantaye chatted with Nilbog and me.

Ben de la Durantaye (subject) chatted (verb) with (acted upon) Nilbog and me (receiver of action (in the sentence's predicate)).


Fully:

I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with Nilbog and me

I (subject) wanted to thank (verb) [Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with Nilbog and me] (predicate)





Alternatively:

Nilbog and I wanted to thank Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with us.

Nilbog and I (subject) wanted to thank (verb) [Ben de la Durantaye for chatting with us] (predicate).

[Hasbinbad]

Not saying I don't believe you, I would just like to see it in some form of published grammar manual. :D

[nilbog]

"I" is a pronoun that must be the subject, never the object, of a verb.

"Me" is a pronoun that must be the object, never the subject.

http://www.englishchick.com/grammar/grcomm.htm

[Hasbinbad]

Well I'll be damned! :D

[Nial]

Not saying I don't believe you, I would just like to see it in some form of published grammar manual. :D

Published Grammar Manual

when was the last time you ever saw one?

[Cowboy]

Fix'd

Actually, it is in fact me not I.

I want to thank .... for chatting with (remove Nilbog and) me.

[YES] For chatting with me.

[NO] For chatting with I.

The rule is that you come after those listed as the nouns or direct objects... and that to determine the appropriate use of I or me you remove others in the list and form the sentence with you as the only noun/D.O.

Edit: My god, the grammar nazi in me wanted to jump on this so quickly, that I hadn't caught Rogean's absolutely correct defense of his use of me and not I. Sorry for the late back-up!
Double-Edit: And with my lack of evidence other than my own personal experience with the rules of grammar, my back-up is unnecessary and trite at this stage of the thread. I may just remove it.
Followup-Edit: Nah.

Truth.

[Akim]

I didn't pass English in college.
But I passed Spanish..
And it was because of rules like these..
I speak English.!

[Hasbinbad]

Published Grammar Manual

when was the last time you ever saw one?
Rules of MLA writing style or some such in English 1a, why?

[BuzWeaver]

Thanks to the article I finally jumped on-board. Some of my old guild mates had mentioned the EQEMU back when it first came out, however I had other things going on at the time.

The guys who put this all together have done an amazing job, no question their love for the game is shinning through and thanks to them we can enjoy the glory days. I'm really excited to learn more and will be perusing the forums here to learn a little more.

[Tudana]

this is great news guys, I sure hope your ready for the onslaught!

[atvaata]

and i hope hes ready for the asshatish :D ITS AWESOMES

[Toad]

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/myself.html - Common Errors in English Lang - 2nd Edition

All this confusion can easily be avoided if you just remove the second party from the sentences where you feel tempted to use “myself” as an object or feel nervous about “me.” You wouldn’t say, “The IRS sent the refund check to I,” so you shouldn’t say “The IRS sent the refund check to my wife and I” either.

[fastboy21]

In English, the pronoun in a prepositional phrase is ALWAYS in the accusative...
for example...
"with John and me" NEVER "with John and I"
"between you and me" NEVER "between you and I"
"I hit the ball for him to catch" NEVER "I hit the ball for he to catch"
"With John and me in charge we will succeed" NEVER "With John and I in charge we will succeed"

has nothing to do with predicate or subject in this situation...any time a pronoun is governed by a preposition (i.e. a prepositional phrase) the pronoun must be the accusative in English (object pronoun).

This is often confused by native speakers of English because we naturally say things like:
"This is HIM" when picking up the phone. We are taught by some (usually angry) adult in about 3rd grade that we are wrong for saying that and that we should say, "This is HE", which is (of course) actually correct grammar.

However, after that embarrassing lesson (which most people don't really understand) we feel unsure of ourselves whenever we say ME HIM etc....and start to substitute I and HE all over the place. This is usually wrong.

In the subject predicate of a sentence English (and a number of other languages) use the nominative form of the pronoun. The subject predicate is almost always identified with a "to be" verb in English (i.e. is, was, am, etc.)
So....
"This is he" is correct....NEVER "This is him" (((IS = TO BE VERB = SUBJECT PREDICATE)))
"He hit him" is correct....NEVER "He hit he" (((HIT = ACTION VERB = OBJECT PREDICATE= accusative pronoun)))

This concludes my free English grammar lesson...next week I will discuss the proper use of the subjunctive mood in English (a dying art which if it WERE revived would change the world)---giggle if you caught the subjunctive there.

[Jify]

It's Monday, can't read the article. /cry

[FatMagic]

Is anyone worried this could draw TOO much undue attention, and get Sony jumping down our throats? I hope this isn't the case. I hope that it's an unfounded fear! Just don't want to see this awesome server get shut down.

[Tudana]

That is my worry too.

I am having so much fun again and I am getting attached to my game, server, and Character once again. No other MMo out since 2004 for me to do that :)

If Soe did try and pull the plug, they need to pay heed to the demand there is in the EQ Orignal.

Heres to hoping things continue to grow and thrive here :)

[Crone]

Reading the article right now. I lol'ed at some of the quotes from players. :)

[Striiker]

They finally opened up the free article to us cheap bastards.. :-) So far, it's a great read!

[Crone]

I think they spun the legal side of it a little too negatively, but other than that, a great read.

[fastboy21]

They put a great question out to the public as to why sony wouldn't create their own classic server. It makes sony look pretty foolish, given that there is an obvious demand for the product.

I'd also say, and I don't mean this with any disrespect to the Devs or their great work here, but I think a lot of emulator players would prefer to play on a commercially supported live server. Yes, I know sony is the evil empire and that emulators are free...but I still think most people have a hard time getting completely comfortable in a emulator environment. (Again, I hope nobody takes this the wrong way...I don't mean to say that Rogean/Nilbog's vision and hardwork are in any way unappreciated by me or the community...I'm just commenting on how gamers feel in general--in my opinion--about playing on an emulator server.)

The legality of the issue is irrelevant. If Sony wanted to they could simply file the legal suits against project1999 and, whatever legal argument we use, they would shut us down. Considering that the project has to take donations to keep servers from ddos and bad data centers I can't imagine project1999 affording to mount a legal defense against a corporation. The costs would quickly mount into the thousands of dollars before anyone even got near a courtroom. SOE could do this without so much as batting an eye...so why haven't they:

Can only think of a few reasons:
1. They do not know about the project (I don't believe this).
2. They do not care about the project (They may think its cool that players are banding together to keep a game that they made popular---or they may think that the number of people involved/money lost isn't worth taking legal action).
3. They may be using it as a free way of gauging any real interest in a classic server.
4. They have a policy that unless the project charges they will not proceed into legal action (donations touch a sketchy area here if I were Sony reading the article).

Anyways, it seems to me that the project is probably not at risk for legal action...I believe sony was aware of the server long before the article and they had taken no legal action thus far---so I don't think anything has happened that will change that from recent activity.

I hope I'm not wrong, because I like it here a lot.

[Grento]

Good article.

I am sure mcquaid and the other originals would be happy that we are preserving what they created.

[Hasbinbad]

Good article.

I am sure mcquaid and the other originals would be happy that we are preserving what they created.
I would not be surprised in the least if they played here.

[Malrubius]

The biggest thing I learned here -> the following confirmation that the intent is to follow the original timeline! :D ...

Nilbog says they intend to unlock two expansions--The Ruins of Kunark, and the Scars of Velious, matching the timeline as closely as they can, opening the expansions roughly a year apart.

[Tudana]

great article - i linked it to many friends from my EQ server :)

Great job guys

[Priest Vallon]

Congratz Nilbog on getting your server mentioned on tentonhammer

[Cristos]

Hey that was me! lol (the ogre in CB)

-Gargamallow

[BuzWeaver]

Is anyone worried this could draw TOO much undue attention, and get Sony jumping down our throats? I hope this isn't the case. I hope that it's an unfounded fear! Just don't want to see this awesome server get shut down.

I was wondering about that myself. Yesterday I made a post on my guilds site, which was removed as the guild rules don't encourage or advocate the use of Emulators (Guild related wise). Their concern as was mine is SOE's thoughts or possible reaction. I'm sure they are aware of this.

On a side note, I'm really enjoying the game I hope it can continue to thrive.

[Aeolwind]

I was wondering about that myself. Yesterday I made a post on my guilds site, which was removed as the guild rules don't encourage or advocate the use of Emulators (Guild related wise). Their concern as was mine is SOE's thoughts or possible reaction. I'm sure they are aware of this.

On a side note, I'm really enjoying the game I hope it can continue to thrive.

Now, just post the link to TTH article. They know we're here, They've known we're here for a while.

[Anata]

The legality of the issue is irrelevant. If Sony wanted to they could simply file the legal suits against project1999 and, whatever legal argument we use, they would shut us down.
I don't think that the legality is irrelevant. Maybe for now Project 1999 is just to small a fish to let them take action. But once it gets bigger (which is to be expected due to the publicity gained), things might look totally different. Just remember what they did to Winter's Roar, which was running for about 2 years before the lawyers came.

The article is very good, because it shows the different viewpoints from the Project 1999 guys, Smed and a lawyer.

The only thing that I disagree is that the author was explaining the players' interest in the server by "nostalgia" only. But Project 1999 shows that a lot of old DIKU-features, no longer present in most games today, are still attracting a large player base, stuff like: very limited fast travel, death penalty, corpse runs, aggressive mobs chasing you through the whole zone, severe faction differences, few xp by quests, ... etc.

[fastboy21]

You did not understand what you quoted from me Anata.

I said that the hypothetical legal debate doesn't matter because in either case (whether it should or shouldn't be allowed) Sony can shut us down just by threatening legal action simply because p1999 wouldn't have any way to mount a defense to their copyright suits.

When a notification to cease and desist followed by a lawsuit for damages arrives at Rogean's door what do you think he is going to do? Hire an attorney at $100/hr to defend him---a typical defense of this kind is around $20,000 minimum--? Move to Switzerland with his hardware where he can begin a heroic clandestine lifestyle? Or, pull the plug?

Corporations sadly are able to do this in lots of industries in our legal system. I don't like it at all, but thats how it can work in this country.

[mitic]

I said that the hypothetical legal debate doesn't matter because in either case (whether it should or shouldn't be allowed) Sony can shut us down just by threatening legal action simply because p1999 wouldn't have any way to mount a defense to their copyright suits.

so what could be the reason to shut us down since the community whined for years to bring up classic?

soe refused - or did a half assed job with combine/sleeper & 50/51 - so emu did the job. imo, the only reason to bring this baby down would be a new classic life server.

on a side note id bet 1$ that some ex verant/soe devs are playing on p99 already.

[YendorLootmonkey]

so what could be the reason to shut us down since the community whined for years to bring up classic?

soe refused - or did a half assed job with combine/sleeper & 50/51 - so emu did the job. imo, the only reason to bring this baby down would be a new classic life server.

on a side note id bet 1$ that some ex verant/soe devs are playing on p99 already.

All it would take is for some big-wig at Sony that doesn't understand that what is being offered here is fundamentally different than the progression servers, assume that P1999 is taking "a slice of their pie", and give the legal team orders to shut it down. And then it would play out pretty much how fastboy21 described above.

I think you're giving corporations and their upper management way too much benefit of the doubt. :)

That being said, I hope that doesn't happen and I hope P1999 stays up for a long, long time.

[Tudana]

You did not understand what you quoted from me Anata.

I said that the hypothetical legal debate doesn't matter because in either case (whether it should or shouldn't be allowed) Sony can shut us down just by threatening legal action simply because p1999 wouldn't have any way to mount a defense to their copyright suits.

When a notification to cease and desist followed by a lawsuit for damages arrives at Rogean's door what do you think he is going to do? Hire an attorney at $100/hr to defend him---a typical defense of this kind is around $20,000 minimum--? Move to Switzerland with his hardware where he can begin a heroic clandestine lifestyle? Or, pull the plug?

Corporations sadly are able to do this in lots of industries in our legal system. I don't like it at all, but thats how it can work in this country.

It would help Rogean out if one of our P1999 players was a corp Lawyer ;)

[Elissa]

You did not understand what you quoted from me Anata.

I said that the hypothetical legal debate doesn't matter because in either case (whether it should or shouldn't be allowed) Sony can shut us down just by threatening legal action simply because p1999 wouldn't have any way to mount a defense to their copyright suits.

When a notification to cease and desist followed by a lawsuit for damages arrives at Rogean's door what do you think he is going to do? Hire an attorney at $100/hr to defend him---a typical defense of this kind is around $20,000 minimum--? Move to Switzerland with his hardware where he can begin a heroic clandestine lifestyle? Or, pull the plug?

Corporations sadly are able to do this in lots of industries in our legal system. I don't like it at all, but thats how it can work in this country.

$100/hr? Try $300-600! Unless he lives in some back country podunk town... but yes, your main point is correct. If SOE's lawyers come calling, we'll be packing it up... unless we could find a lawyer who's an everquest fan to take the case on pro bono... perhaps settlement negotiations might involve SOE ponying up a classic server! ;)

[Elissa]

It would help Rogean out if one of our P1999 players was a corp Lawyer ;)

I wish I did corporate law, but instead i'm stuck doing real-estate law. Not all that helpful here :(

[fastboy21]

$100 per hour is just a low figure I threw out there to emphasize the high cost of the bare minimum for even a measly defense...but yes, you're right that it usually costs (much) more.

In my line of work if we are sued we will settle the suit out of court most often because the costs of a defense are greater then most settlement figures (and, if you do go to court, there is no guarantee of winning). The magic number is usually right around $20,000 for us...and we gladly pay it to make someone go away rather then pursue costly defense costs.

[mitic]

All it would take is for some big-wig at Sony that doesn't understand that what is being offered here is fundamentally different than the progression servers

dont worry, they perfectly know that p99 is different to their progression servers

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?&topic_id=102153

(eq producer "raghnell" posted in this thread about classic/progression in 2006 when progression servers where opened)

[Pyrocat]

Congrats, Ten Ton Hammer is pretty big news.

[Nedala]

Move to Switzerland with his hardware where he can begin a heroic clandestine lifestyle?

you can hide the server at my place :D