Say 'NO' to VZ/TZ rehash

[mimixownzall]

This is why Null should not have been involved.

We wanted P99 + PvP.

Not VZ/TZ + P99 content.

[Rushmore]

you need people like us
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01452/scarfacedone_1452860i.jpg

[Rust1d?]

Does anyone even know 100% certain how resists worked in classic?

[Tamiah2011]

Does anyone even know 100% certain how resists worked in classic?

I do was there for Beta and Live rz

[mimixownzall]

Does anyone even know 100% certain how resists worked in classic?

When it came to CR/FR/DR/PR, no, but when it came to MR in PvP, the only question is how high between the 100 and 150 mark CC spells were non-existent.

[Kelsar]

crimson pot

[Juugox2]

shit def faded quicker if you had higher resist i saw your post early in the patching thread and you sound like a tard imo mimi


also if the mob or player was higher then you it def faded quicker aswell always been like that man even if you had 0 resists

[Darwoth]

if the new "partial resist" system works like it sounds the problem is the fact that everything will land 3x as much instead of outright resisting like it is supposed to, does not matter if a mez that should have been resisted lasts 1 second, it still interrupted a gate/heal/nuke likewise if a snare lands and lasts 1 tick it still slowed you down enough to get shitcanned by the zerg that was chasing you. it is the difference between winning and losing a fight.

[Sniperfire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rATHBGTCTxA

WE KNOW HOW TO GET DOWN BRO

[Mardur]

shit def faded quicker if you had higher resist i saw your post early in the patching thread and you sound like a tard imo mimi


also if the mob or player was higher then you it def faded quicker aswell always been like that man even if you had 0 resists

You're wrong, this only applies to root which has a resist check every tick.

[Palemoon]

What people are crying about is, they want to be overpowered single toon hit and run griefers.

They want a rulesystem/resistsystem that enables that kind of play. To throw 130 MR on a druid and proceed to grief the world solo, with basically no risk.

But now that there will be a element of chance thrown into their "sure thing" they are shedding tears.

Once again, this server is about playing EQ, with the option of PvP to settle in game disputes and for Roleplay. Its not about buliding the perfect toon to grief the world with as your game focus.

[tmoneynegro]

Repost from other thread:

Why altering crowd control spells from EQ live only affects the game in negative ways:


1) Forced Grouping: Real Everquest PvP was not a forced grouping game. By having all this CC land easily, you make it far too easy for people to get in groups and zerg rush down solo players or smaller numbers of people. Your theology of balance is inherently "pro-zerg rush".

2) Hybrid vs Pure Melee balance: In real EQ PvP, these classes were balanced relatively well against each other in eras like Kunark. The balance probably tipped towards hybrids but it was still close. Letting crowd control land easily dramatically increases the power of hybrids resulting in major imbalance.

3) Channeling Skill: Pure melee do not receive the channeling skill, they can't pumice anything while being hit. Making crowd control land easily dramatically nerfs pure melee while being much less of a nerf to hybrids and other caster classes.

4) Caster vs Melee survivability: When a zerg of people runs at you spamming crowd control spells and you know you're gonna die if you stick around, the moment root lands, the caster hits the gate button or shadowstep/gate and escapes before they reach him a lot of the time. Melee on the other hand will try to pumice, get rooted again soon as it comes off, and gang banged by the zerg for a free kill. This is obviously a huge imbalance in survivability, especially when tank classes are supposed to have high survivability.

5) Dumbing down the game: Crowd control spells landing easily makes it so melee classes are always attacking stationary targets. This removes all the skill from playing a melee class completely. You're no longer jousting anyone, you just stand next to them with auto-attack on. It's inherently dumbing down the game and removing skilled aspects.

6) Another unintended upgrade to hybrids: This is something only someone who played a hybrid on TZVZ would understand. He made CC land easily but also made it last a short duration. When a caster roots you and you're fighting 1vs1, you already know it's going to drop relatively soon. The pure melee really has no choice except to pumice it since he can't do anything else. For the hybrid on the other hand, a lot of the time it's actually more effective to completely ignore it and heal yourself/lifetap or root them back instead because you're gonna be able to move soon anyway. The end result is that melees have to pumice themselves and hybrids get to ignore root, not pumice themselves, and also do useful things while the root is on them (casting) during 1vs1's.

7) 1vs1's where each person casts root 50 times: Example of how ridiculous this system is: A paladin or ranger sees a caster class and a 1vs1 starts. Since being able to immobilize your target is such a powerful spell, the hybrid is gonna spam it. Once the caster sees the hybrid chain rooting him in between swings, he realizes his only hope is to root the hybrid back and hopefully resist a root so he can get some space between each other. This goes on over and over and each player is basically perma rooted the entire fight while occasionally popping out and running a few steps. Does this actually sound fun to anyone?

[Darwoth]

no, what people are bitching about is that they want the proper resistance system for classic everquest, if they wanted a bunch of retarded redseigned shit they would play one of the 500 new games with a pop 15x larger.

granted those of you who cant stop sucking cock long enough for the splooge on your chin to dry might not understand what all the fuss is about with your whopping level 23 post luclin experience on a dead zek server.

everyone else does not like the direction it is going and are rightfully pointing out such.

[Palemoon]

I understand perfectly that its "not classic" im just wondering if it will be better for the "community" this way.

I.E. it forces the VZ/TZ brews and the griefers to leave

So its a trade off, less then classic resists, for more classic community. I.E. griefers and VZ/TZ hackers in the small small minority.

Thats the angle im looking at it at.

[Darwoth]

how the fuck does using the vztz system force the vztz players that you have some kind of unhealthy obsession with to leave?

and why do we want them to leave anyway? long as their not hacking the game i give no shit whether or not soandso is a fucktard, in fact the more fucktards the better as they provide the most amusement.

[Palemoon]

Because they are like you and play to grief. And you already said you will leave so...

[Darwoth]

how do you know how i play?

what is griefing to you anyway? getting killed without a white glove to the left cheek and a formal declaration of imminent fisticuffs?

people like you bring any "griefing" on yourselves

[Palemoon]

I've been on the same server as you in both EQ and Vanguard. You actually know me, but I'm not into internet fame and glory, I almost never use the same toon or forum names twice.

Guess thats another difference between traditional old school players and those who seek new hights of epeen.

You are a random PK, and when your kind reaches a certain percentage of the servers population, the sever dies. We cannot cater to that.

To repost:

About 35% were there for the sake of trolling other players.
And by trolling, I meant to the point where they would grief someone off the server. Not to do battle with others.

So if these "changes" to classic result in that precentage becomming 10 percent or less.. its a worthwhile sacrifice for the long term health of the server.

[Darwoth]

so your saying that in order to save the server from being single handedly destroyed by my pking folks (lol) that one must cut off the nose to spite the face (horrible resistance system) which will in turn make it so hundreds less even try the server than otherwise would have happened.


sound logic, maybe you can go test it on al'kabor for the final nail in the coffin of inane stupid bullshit.

[tmoneynegro]

I understand perfectly that its "not classic" im just wondering if it will be better for the "community" this way.

I.E. it forces the VZ/TZ brews and the griefers to leave

You honestly need full blown down syndrome to believe this. The Null resist system benefits "griefers" much more than classic resists.

When server goes live, you're gonna see guild groups of 6 people walking around and zerg rushing all the solos and unguilded players. With Null resists, you'll be perma stunned/rooted/immobilized and instantly die. With classic resists, people just run away from zerg gankers and they stop doing it because it gives them no results.

[Sarkov]

Chiming in with a strong 'NO' to this custom bs. I don't want to play on "Null's vision of how pvp should have been", I want to re-live the classic pvp experience. Pretty sure that was the whole point of red99... right?

[Mardur]

1) Forced Grouping: Real Everquest PvP was not a forced grouping game. By having all this CC land easily, you make it far too easy for people to get in groups and zerg rush down solo players or smaller numbers of people. Your theology of balance is inherently "pro-zerg rush".
Irrelevant; a group of players is just about always going to defeat a solo regardless of resist system and this is the way it should be.

2) Hybrid vs Pure Melee balance: In real EQ PvP, these classes were balanced relatively well against each other in eras like Kunark. The balance probably tipped towards hybrids but it was still close. Letting crowd control land easily dramatically increases the power of hybrids resulting in major imbalance.

Pure melee are more susceptible to magic, makes sense. That's what you're getting yourself into when you roll a pure melee.

3) Channeling Skill: Pure melee do not receive the channeling skill, they can't pumice anything while being hit. Making crowd control land easily dramatically nerfs pure melee while being much less of a nerf to hybrids and other caster classes.

Just because melee don't get channeling doesn't mean they should be immune to magic. Read above.

4) Caster vs Melee survivability: When a zerg of people runs at you spamming crowd control spells and you know you're gonna die if you stick around, the moment root lands, the caster hits the gate button or shadowstep/gate and escapes before they reach him a lot of the time. Melee on the other hand will try to pumice, get rooted again soon as it comes off, and gang banged by the zerg for a free kill. This is obviously a huge imbalance in survivability, especially when tank classes are supposed to have high survivability.

You're just rewording the same thing over and over again. Pure melee have higher defensive skills and HP, casters get magic like Yonder to survive. Magic users are less susceptible to magic than melee. Melee are less susceptible to melee than magic users.

5) Dumbing down the game: Crowd control spells landing easily makes it so melee classes are always attacking stationary targets. This removes all the skill from playing a melee class completely. You're no longer jousting anyone, you just stand next to them with auto-attack on. It's inherently dumbing down the game and removing skilled aspects.

Allowing a snare to land for 2 ticks as opposed to flat out resisting 100% of the time is not dumbing down the game, it's allowing certain classes to not be completely useless against opponents with high resists.

6) Another unintended upgrade to hybrids: This is something only someone who played a hybrid on TZVZ would understand. He made CC land easily but also made it last a short duration. When a caster roots you and you're fighting 1vs1, you already know it's going to drop relatively soon. The pure melee really has no choice except to pumice it since he can't do anything else. For the hybrid on the other hand, a lot of the time it's actually more effective to completely ignore it and heal yourself/lifetap or root them back instead because you're gonna be able to move soon anyway. The end result is that melees have to pumice themselves and hybrids get to ignore root, not pumice themselves, and also do useful things while the root is on them (casting) during 1vs1's.

So what, that's the advantage of having magic at your disposal. Both types of classes have a way out.

7) 1vs1's where each person casts root 50 times: Example of how ridiculous this system is: A paladin or ranger sees a caster class and a 1vs1 starts. Since being able to immobilize your target is such a powerful spell, the hybrid is gonna spam it. Once the caster sees the hybrid chain rooting him in between swings, he realizes his only hope is to root the hybrid back and hopefully resist a root so he can get some space between each other. This goes on over and over and each player is basically perma rooted the entire fight while occasionally popping out and running a few steps. Does this actually sound fun to anyone?

Irrelevant.

[Mardur]

Just to be clear, I'm absolutely indifferent to the system until I experience it.

Pros: Gives casters additional effectiveness against players with high resists

Cons: Not classic

I'll take anything that works and makes the server fun.

[bamzal]

servers brokn

[Billbike]

If not Null, who then?

Ok we will just get one of the PvP experts from Blue1999 to do it.

Easy right?

No.

[tmoneynegro]

Irrelevant; a group of players is just about always going to defeat a solo regardless of resist system and this is the way it should be.

Wrong. In real EQ PvP, zerging isn't a viable tactic because you can just run away from them. It wasn't until the Tendonslicer piercer in Luclin that you could actually snare a well geared player and it was an unreliable weapon proc.




Just because melee don't get channeling doesn't mean they should be immune to magic. Read above.

Once again, we are here to play EQ PvP, not "Mardur's whatever the fuck poor balance server"




Allowing a snare to land for 2 ticks as opposed to flat out resisting 100% of the time is not dumbing down the game, it's allowing certain classes to not be completely useless against opponents with high resists.

Of course it's dumbing down the game. It takes 0 skill to zerg down a stationary target.

[Sniperfire]

YOU GUYS CRY ALOT....i just wana play the game

[Shamanx]

Wrong. In real EQ PvP, zerging isn't a viable tactic because you can just run away from them. It wasn't until the Tendonslicer piercer in Luclin that you could actually snare a well geared player and it was an unreliable weapon proc.

Say what?? Zerg vs. Solo the only thing the solo can do to get away is gate (which has nothing to do with snares/roots landing), or run away with SoW. With the latter, you:
A) Have SoW, and be running away from them before they're in range to cast.
B) Need to pray they don't have a Bard/Druid/Shaman that can out run you.
C) Hope they don't have anyone that has a bow, because you'll eventually get killed.

[jrwriter]

I'm rdy for whatever system they put in even if my class is weak which it will be go devs

[Dontmez_Mebro]

So I guess no one is going to waste their time being a melee class now right?

[mitic]

id rather say no to OPs like the one in this thread. without null red99 would have been released sometime in summer 2012

[Evoken]

Nah not really. I was hoping more for the 2nd one tbh.

[valithteezee]

http://goremasternews.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kuato-in-total-recall.jpg
Null's birth-child might end up saving the Universe. We should give it a chance before we poop on it.

[bamzal]

id rather say no to OPs like the one in this thread. without null red99 would have been released sometime in summer 2012

at least it would be a pvp version of p1999 or classic eq

[Arillious]

We are all here because we want to relive classic eq pvp because it WORKED. The GM's should be trying to make the resist system as classic as possible.

[mimixownzall]

What people are crying about is, they want to be overpowered single toon hit and run griefers.

They want a rulesystem/resistsystem that enables that kind of play. To throw 130 MR on a druid and proceed to grief the world solo, with basically no risk.

Since this isn't RnF I won't tell you how stupid you are; I will show you.

So you think that making SNARE and ROOT (both very power spells that druids have) not easily resisted and viable wouldn't make druids even more powerful?

Holy fuck that is the dumbest thing I've seen in a while.

I'm trying to help out the warriors, monks, and rogues that will get completely annihilated by these spells that they are trying to make viable.

[mimixownzall]

I understand perfectly that its "not classic" im just wondering if it will be better for the "community" this way.

That is why the other PVP servers post-VZTZ have failed. People want classic and don't go for altered/redesigned shit.

[Darksinga]

No offense to Null because he's been doing tons for the server, but the VZTZ resist system was seriously messed up.

Root would land on near 200 MR and like others have said, it's just a zerg fest of killing stationary targets.

Most definitely EQ dumbed down and as a bard especially, my main advantage is my high chance to resist CC spells and my fast movement.

I know it's tough to revert back to a 1999 pvp system because we really don't know exactly what it's like, but I don't think the VZTZ system will work. Just my previous experience with it tells me it's a possibly bad idea.

[Wonton]

Takes one to know one, Mimixownzall.

[Tyen01]

lachius trollin

[mimixownzall]

Takes one to know one, Mimixownzall.

I know you are, but what am I?

[Muaar]

Why does no one know what classic resists were like and how to replicate it?

[Amuk]

I already posted my opinion in the other thread but yes I'm part of the 'don't let snares/darkness/roots/blinds' land on 150+ mr crowd. Snares landing consistently destroys pvp, any retard can focus a snared person and it really becomes about numbers/leadership calling targets, rather then skilled players. Just imo dont hate me.

[MakeYouMad]

Why does no one know what classic resists were like and how to replicate it?

We do now, found a wizard damage parse on graffe forum:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51839