Ventrilo: Did it progress or destroy the MMORPG experience?

[Snaggles]

I remember downloading Vent for the first time back on live for guild raids.

Through Velious we did all raiding just by typing into the chat window and it seemed to work fine. Post Luclin the GM decided all officers should be plugged in for strategy. I remember the first time I finally got the setting configured and noise started coming through the headset: I didn't like it.

For me the ability to coordinate in real-time (or close to it) was overshadowed by that problem I was matching a voice to a character. Even EQ's horrible models did a good job masking the identity into a true role play game environment. Hearing a squeaky voiced player as an Ogre or a loud crass person as a high elf spoiled the air a bit.

I'm not a RPG geek, LARP fanatic, or the kind of person who dresses up for movie premiers. It's just odd to put a voice with a character who isn't supposed to be talking (especially if it's nowhere fucking close to the class/race combo).

Thoughts?

[Darwoth]

i still hate using vent and have to be dragged into it by my guildmates, when we are just shhoting the shit its one thing and i find that enjoyable. however when im trying to play a game i find it annoying/distracting.

[MrSparkle001]

I feel the same way about vent. I just don't like it. I don't want to equate ingame characters with RL people. I know there's a person playing them, but I don't want to hear them. It destroys the "magic" and turns it into just a game instead of something more immersive. It's kinda hard to describe.

I also hate talking on the phone. Always have. If I can't talk to someone face to face I don't want to talk to them at all.

[mitic]

i give a 2 of 10 to the poll options

[Seaweedpimp]

where else would i speak to human beings

[Snaggles]

i give a 2 of 10 to the poll options

Lol! Yea I wasn't getting very creative.

[Mardur]

Definitely progress.

When you're playing, you usually don't have time to type. In a high intensity situation, taking the time to communicate via text makes you less effective. This goes especially for heavy-duty classes like bard or shaman, and on PvP servers.

Secondly, it's easier to form personable relationships with in-game friends when you can talk via voice. Text communication is kind of cold and archaic.

It makes you a better gamer and I personally have more fun shooting the shit with online friends. The only downside is that you may one day find yourself in the same Ventrilo as Goobles or Hasbinbad.

Anyone who thinks it's bad are just nostalgia LARP nerds. These are probably the same guys who are in that Youtube thunder bolt video.

[Mardur]

If you don't like voice communication, talking on the phone, etc, have fun not being successful in life.

[burkemi5]

WHAT IN TARNATION IS THIS FANCY VOICE PROGRAM THINGIE? some of the posts sound like that. Vent did a great service for the game, it made it to be much more social, allowed gamers to implement strats MUCH easier, and it helps you adjust much easier on the fly. not everyone has to talk, but as long as everyone is listening your raid / group will probably be better off.

[Gwence]

ventrilo/teamspeak is the best thing to happen to online gaming since they invented the internet.

of course old schoolers might remember roger wilco!

[Snaggles]

Anyone who thinks it's bad are just nostalgia LARP nerds. These are probably the same guys who are in that Youtube thunder bolt video.

There are plenty of reasons why it's bad that has nothing to do LARP'ing. Absolutes seldom hold weight in life ;)

For timing and coordination I can see it, especially PvP. Not everyone who is against is a old nostalgic jerk or has a superiority complex.

[Galacticus]

It depends on the game really.

[Harrison]

If you don't like voice communication, talking on the phone, etc, have fun not being successful in life.

[Snaggles]

It depends on the game really.

Best answer yet. Shoulda been in the damn poll. :mad:

[Palemoon]

I only ever used vent during my Shadowbane years. I would never want to use it for a slower paced online RPG.

And for a slow as snails game like EQ? vent is totally unnessesary.

[mwatt]

It didn't ruin the game because I just refuse to use it. It breaks the immersion, horribly.
Learn to type everyone.

[Galacticus]

I am an old school gamer. People ask me how I type so fast and in reality it was because I was forced to get good at typing to play games effectively.


There isn't a better way to teach someone to type then having them type to their friends about some funny shit or something important.

There are a lot of games that wouldn't be able to function the way they do without voice communication because there is just no time to type, and the people who make the game know you will have voice so they don't bother to put that time in.

For MMOs I like typing the most. You never forget what someone says because you can just scroll up, on voice you might not really understand them because of an accent or the distance between their mouth and mic. Its also better for conflict. There are always those people who say "No I didn't say that, or No he told me this and this and this". If it's typed its all there and you cant dispute it.

[toddfx]

I can understand it being used in a high stress situations where lots of people are communicating together without time to type, but for casual play it seems like a pretty poor choice. The issue I see with voice chat being used is that for one thing, there is no log of what was said. If you miss what somebody says, you have no choice but to ask them to repeat themselves. With lots of chaos going on and lots of people doing/saying multiple things, it seems like there is a lot of room for error. It might be true that voice chat is FASTER but is it as bullet-proof as the written word? I think not.


If you don't like voice communication, talking on the phone, etc, have fun not being successful in life.

This comment is pretty ignorant, unnecessary, and also borderline offensive. If you haven't noticed, the world is actually becoming MORE text based every day.

Besides that, your statement makes me wonder what your idea of "successful" is. Success is the accomplishment of an aim or purpose, which many people would also describe as happiness. If you are saying one cannot be happy without using a telephone, I am sorry to hear that is what you think about life and humanity.

Just sayin.

[Kika Maslyaka]

while I enjoyed casual conversation in groups using keyboard, I definitely believe that ventrillo is a tremendous assets to raids.
How many times raid leader noticing that something went wrong and raid on a verge of a wipe out, just doesn't have the time to type out instructions for everyone - Ventrillo to the rescue! ;)

[Kevlar]

Well its cool for outing the manginas.

[Mardur]

It didn't ruin the game because I just refuse to use it. It breaks the immersion, horribly.
Learn to type everyone.

I'm probably within the top 1% of fastest typers in the P99 community and I absolutely cannot text-communicate and play the game effectively. It's impossible. Once you begin typing, you lose your ability to do anything useful besides like, auto run.

By the way, everyone who in one way or another told me I was wrong, never gave any evidence supporting how I'm wrong. Blanket statements just make you look dumb. This was my favorite:

There are plenty of reasons why it's bad that has nothing to do LARP'ing. Absolutes seldom hold weight in life ;)

"It's bad, but I can't tell you why. Also absolutes are bad."

[MrSparkle001]

If you don't like voice communication, talking on the phone, etc, have fun not being successful in life.

Let me put it another way then: In flight sims I love voice communication. There is something so awesome about talking to your wingman or other allied pilots. For me that same awesomeness does not happen with games like Everquest, at all.

Voice communication in flight sims = the best thing since TrackIR (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/). Voice communication in MMORPGs = annoying.

As for talking on the phone, I'm reminded of that Family Guy episode where Peter turns feminine and calls Quagmire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTidDRR8Scg). Guys don't talk on the phone like that. They use the phone, but they don't talk like that. I don't like it unless there's something important to talk about.

I also might be in the extreme minority in that voice communication in a MMORPG completely ruins my concentration ingame. I've tried vent in WoW, and my performance took a nosedive. It's fine when I'm flying my flight sim, but in games like this it's more a distraction than a tool. I'm odd that way.

[Ceros]

I can understand it being used in a high stress situations where lots of people are communicating together without time to type


I believe it's the opposite. During a raid encounter, my guess is that only the raid leader and perhaps officers are permitted to speak in most guilds. The biggest benefit is that people don't miss instructions that may otherwise quickly scroll by unseen.

It's hard to imagine a competitive guild not using ventrilo or something similar. Not everyone likes it, but it definitely has the potential to drastically improve communication and coordination if used properly.

With that said, I don't like it for reasons expressed already. It breaks immersion, etc.. If not properly moderated or if the raid leader is a moron, it can easily induce headaches worse than those from guildchat text alone.

[Daldaen]

EQ Classic is an extremely slow paced game, relative to the pace of other MMOs out there. You almost never don't have time to type if you aren't a terribly slow typer.

I've played EQLive for 12 years and I've typed stuff out the entire time. I've used vent, but even when I'm in vent I prefer to type out stuff. I don't have to worry about being talked over, or having my mic near me etc.

[aubie]

Pay attention. If voice communication is required to be successful, it's not the type of game I'm looking for (or at least not community-wise). Focus is on consuming content at the fastest pace possible = no fun. Ventrillo in; I'm out. But, it's probably a good method for separating play styles.

[Mardur]

Curious what classes you guys play. Especially the ones that are adamant that typing doesn't affect your playing abilities.

I'm assuming all you immersion people are just cripplingly antisocial and using that as an excuse.

There's zero negatives to voice communication besides like the $15 you have to spend on a headset. Communicating with other players is fun. That's why we play EQ.

[SirAlvarex]

I greatly dislike voice communication in MMO's. I dealt with it in EQ2, mostly because the guild I was in was enjoyable to speak with. Same with the clan I competed with in Counter Strike: Source and Rainbow Six.

However, every other time I've used voice outside of my EQ2 guild and FPS clans, it's been filled with obnoxious people. Hell, I've been that obnoxious person in chat before as well.

Is it good for organizing? Sure. But just like my problem with the initial use of twitter, I don't need to hear about that awesome dump you just took. Or become intimately aware of the fact that your kids are extremely loud. Or the heavy breathing that I'm sure makes you great on those old 1-900 lines.

[Arrisard]

I used to have the same bias against voice, but then I realized I was talking to people I interacted with ingame as actual friends and not just characters in my little fantasy immersion. How's school/family/work, play any other good games lately, see the game the other night, etc etc.

So, I guess it just depends on what you play for. EQ has evolved for me from a fantasy immersion to playing a game with friends, and with that, my expectations, desires, and playstyle has evolved along with it.

For groupage and raids, most anything can be done in text no question - however there is also little question, imo, as to what advantages voice brings to the table over text. Not to mention, playing a bard it's been a relief as well.

So I can understand while people don't like it. I can understand why people desire, and sometimes require, it. The only stupid thing I can see in this whole thing is "NO, YOU CAN'T BE HAVING FUN LIKE THAT BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW I HAVE FUN". Then again, that seems to be the basis for a lot of stupidity on these forums, anyway.

[mwatt]

I'm probably within the top 1% of fastest typers in the P99 community and I absolutely cannot text-communicate and play the game effectively. It's impossible. Once you begin typing, you lose your ability to do anything useful besides like, auto run.

By the way, everyone who in one way or another told me I was wrong, never gave any evidence supporting how I'm wrong. Blanket statements just make you look dumb. This was my favorite:



"It's bad, but I can't tell you why. Also absolutes are bad."

There are a few times when voice is EASIER than text - no question about that. The most common are probably running while typing, complicated grouping scenarios and many raiding scenarios.

However, just because something is easier, doesn't make it more fun. For me, it greatly damages my immersion. Granted, if I'm fighting an Orc, I know I'm not REALLY fighting an orc. Yet, there is something to experiencing 3D graphics instead of text, nice animation, moody surroundings. It makes the game more fun for me if the play is thematic. Talking to the real people by voice that are behind the character images messes this up for me. Plus some of the people I have had to group with over the years... I definitely DON'T want to know anything more about them than I have to.

I will grant you that in raid scenarios, it's obviously more effective to speak rather than write, and that can make the difference between winning and loosing. I'm not much for raiding anyway - and voice is one reason why - but to me, it's kind of like cheating to have to use voice. Mind you, I said for ME. I'm not telling anyone else how to play.

[Tux]

Anyone who thinks it's bad are just nostalgia LARP nerds. These are probably the same guys who are in that Youtube thunder bolt video.

Funny, I find it the exact opposite. I dislike vent because it normally immediately dispels the idea that I'm playing the game with people I'd actually respect in real life.

The vast majority of people will be more effective in game with vent, I doubt many would dispute that. My personal choice is that it just makes the game less fun and is therefor not worth it.

[Ceros]

So based on the responses here, if you like using Vent, you're lazy and unfocused; if you prefer guildchat, you've got some sort of social disorder, have no friends and will never get anywhere in life.

Or maybe different people may enjoy the same thing in different ways, and in this case, completely unreflective of their value as human beings.

[Tappin]

Some of the best gaming experiences I've had, come from Vent... I feel like I know more than a person's character when I become good friends with them across vent. Their character doesn't really exist, they are just avatars in a video game that I won't be playing in a few months anyways. I have friends to this day that I haven't gamed with in years, yet we communicate on a daily/weekly basis, and I consider some of them to be extremely close friends.
Would I ever have formed that sort of relationship without Vent? I highly doubt it. In most new games, especially a game like WoW, people do not play only one character, most have multiple, like 3+ easily... So you care much less about the player's character and a lot more about the actual person who plays those characters.
I've been in guilds in certain games in the past that, I'd log onto Vent before I'd even launch the game. If particular people weren't in Vent, I had no interest in playing. For me, a good gaming experience or memory doesn't come from the game, it comes from the people you play that game with.
A good example for me is LOTRO, that game is pretty much trash. It has fun aspects, but compared to other MMOs, it's... just lacking. I knew the game was garbage during beta when I first started playing it, but I have more good memories from that game than every other MMO that I've played combined, and it's because of all of the people who I played with. It was FUN to get on and play with them and do the same boring stuff with them.

I love Vent, and I can't imagine playing any game without Vent, at least not a game in which I play with others on a regular basis.

[Mardur]

I dislike vent because it normally immediately dispels the idea that I'm playing the game with people I'd actually respect in real life.

Keep hearing this as a caveat to voice communication but there's a simple solution you're all somehow overlooking: stop playing with tools.

[Rukku]

I'm probably within the top 1% of fastest typers in the P99 community and I absolutely cannot text-communicate and play the game effectively. It's impossible. Once you begin typing, you lose your ability to do anything useful besides like, auto run.

By the way, everyone who in one way or another told me I was wrong, never gave any evidence supporting how I'm wrong. Blanket statements just make you look dumb.

I take it that your first experiences on these games involved using vent. Really it's just what falls into people's comfort levels.

A lot of people play this game for the role playing aspect, even if they don't specifically role play their character. You don't really want to hear some 50 year old's deep voice when they're playing a female wood elf character, even if you already know it's a dude. And you don't want to hear someone talk about their personal issues during the massive downtimes of EQ play.

And I don't know what class you play, but if you type as fast as you say you do, I don't see how you could have any issues with communicating via typing in this game.

Certain moments may get a little overloaded/stressful, but you adapt. And you can adapt without having to make yourself realize you're not really IN the game. That's the biggest reason why people were addicted to this game. You were your character. These days there are people that are their entire guild.

And all this I hear about how vent makes raiding easier... I go back and read all the comments on raiding and it doesn't make sense to me. There's information out there where everyone should know pretty much exactly what they're supposed to do in raids, even if they had never played this game before. Then take into consideration the long length of time between classic and kunark for people to get overly geared. Yet they still struggle on so many aspects of the raid scene.

Back on live for classic/kunark, people didn't know crap. It would take an hour to get 20 people to zone in one at a time and get to a certain spot on the wall in fear. You wait in the verant chat room for everyone to get there, then everyone logs back in. That's how we broke fear originally. I heard stories here that it takes 5 hours with 50+ people to break it. I don't care what guild it is... that's insane.

By what I can judge on the year and a half I played originally versus the 4 months here, and the raid scenes I've played on both.... people were far better 12 years ago, and that was without voice chat. So personally I don't see how it helps your groups in this specific game. It just takes away from the feel of the game.

[Aesop]

Mardur is just some opinionated idiot.

Vent is cool, I use it sometimes, sometimes I don't. You don't need it for encounters as they exist now PVE but for PVP it has the potential to be good (just as much potential to be bad though) as in PVP shit changes so rapidly - but enough macros really circumvents that (assist macro, etc. etc.)

Vent is a crutch a lot of times for people who don't have general awareness. But when people are all badass and pay attention anyhow vent is a great tool - but who knows depends on your ratio of chiefs to indians.

[visage]

Vent = High pitched and very low pitched nerds masterbating to eachothers voices while playing vid games. Did it ruin the MMORPG exp? Well it sure made things more homosexual thats for sure.

[Lovely]

When playing games like HoN, LoL, Dota and FPS games then it's a must to use some kind of voice communication (Every 1/10 ofa second is crucial). Also in fast faced MMO pvp games such as WoW arena.

In EQ pvp I wouldn't say it's a must, it's so freaking slow paced and spells got like 5 second cast time. You'll be fine with using a few macros for moving, assisting, targets and calling out when important spells land.

For PVE I've never prefer using voice communication even if I have for the last 5 years. It makes players/people dummies, they get so used to following your orders that they can't think for themselves. The ideal situation in a raid is that everyone know beforehand exactly what to do in every situation. If you have to tell people what to do mid fight then it's often to late already and they might not be fast enough to adjust to the situation. Telling people what to do in text is also an advantage since people understand text easier then voice, they can also re-read it if they aren't sure or if they went afk for a short moment.

[Lovely]

Also most people playing video games are huge nerds and I normally I don't have a single common interest with them beside gaming. That's why I often dislike using vent/skype with random people on the internet. Then it's easier to just type since it will most likely only be in game talk then. Compared to voice communication where most of the talk won't be gaming related.

[pickled_heretic]

a tool to make communicating with people easier has destroyed the mmo experience?

why do you people play mmos?

[MrSparkle001]

Vent = High pitched and very low pitched nerds masterbating to eachothers voices while playing vid games. Did it ruin the MMORPG exp? Well it sure made things more homosexual thats for sure.

I think if vent was full of Morgan Freemans, Sean Connerys and James Earl Joneses I might enjoy it a whole lot more. Alas, it's usually full of whiney nerds on MMORPGs.

Also most people playing video games are huge nerds and I normally I don't have a single common interest with them beside gaming. That's why I often dislike using vent/skype with random people on the internet. Then it's easier to just type since it will most likely only be in game talk then. Compared to voice communication where most of the talk won't be gaming related.

That's very true. When I tried vent for a while with WoW, omg I couldn't stand it. It wasn't a game tool, it was a socializing tool full of teens acting like teens. I don't get that when I use it with my flight sim (which I rarely do anymore) but the thought of using it again with a MMORPG is scary.

It might be different here. I have a feeling a good majority of the players here used to play classic 10 years ago and so are at least in their mid 20s and mature. And of course not every kid is annoying on vent, but what is annoying is the fact that it reminds me that I might be in vent with someone who's over 20 years younger than me. I'm their elder and authority figure, not their playmate. It's a bad feeling :)

[pickled_heretic]

I think if vent was full of Morgan Freemans, Sean Connerys and James Earl Joneses I might enjoy it a whole lot more. Alas, it's usually full of whiney nerds on MMORPGs.


implying that your voice is some kind of gift from God?

Also most people playing video games are huge nerds and I normally I don't have a single common interest with them beside gaming. That's why I often dislike using vent/skype with random people on the internet. Then it's easier to just type since it will most likely only be in game talk then. Compared to voice communication where most of the talk won't be gaming related.

it honestly sounds like the people who are dissing ventrilo here are the very same whiny judgmental crybabies that are being singled out as the reason why ventrilo destroyed their gaming experience.

[Lovely]

I'm not judgmental, I'm a realist! I played in the same World of Warcraft guild for almost 6 years and I was the leader the whole time. Over the course of 6 years I probably talked to over a thousand people on Ventrilo and I can honestly say that I only liked around 5-10 on a personal level that went past the gaming. Sure I had tons of fun with the other thousand people and we had a blast in game but outside gaming I shared almost no interests with those people.

We even had real life meetings several times in various countries. I always wanted to go to a warm place like Spain, France, Greece etc to hang out at the beach, go party, do sports and other social things. Do you think the majority wanted things like that? I can tell you maybe 1 more or person if any at all wanted things like that. Most people wanted to go to cold countries like Germany, Sweden, England and hang out in pubs and then go hang out at a internet cafe and that's what we always ended up doing to my displease. Therefor I don't prefer using voice communications because 95% of the time I just sit and listen to talk that I have absolutely no interest in and it just become annoying as fuck. I rather sit and listen to music and relax or just talk to a friend on skype while I play.

[Snaggles]

Mardur,

First there is nothing "bad" about using absolutes. The problem is if you use them on an easily debated statement regarding how "all" people opposing vent are nostalgic larpers it makes you look extremely ignorant. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming sassy hyperbole. :p

Second there are plenty of reasons not to use it (in a non-pvp game). Here are some opinions and some facts:

* It adds a layer of complexity (initial set-up) to an easy game.

* It for some (ie twice as many per the poll) ruins the RPG element, thus making a game less fun. The benefit better be painfully obvious.

* The spoken word is often more difficult to understand due to mic quality and accents. We all dont have broadcasting training.

* Vent was created a while after the game was launched. That means classic Fear raids and Trak. My guild was raiding Ssra w/o it prior to PoP. No clue if the officers used it...they were pretty bright tho.

* Having open mic night for the guild rarely brings people together. High stress makes people irritable and chatter is less annoying in text. People often like to to hear there own voices which can negatively impact morale.

* The game isnt that hard with hotkeys. Pulling, CH chains, etc. Its faster to bang a button and have people read than to yell a phrase. You can also scroll back up if things go wrong, "i said to fucking camp out...read it!"

* Voices carry inherent character judgement. Deep voices more trusting, squeaky frantic less so. It's not fair for a person in a mmo to be judged for their RL age, voice, or appearance. Its why we dont always choose humans.

* Some people are shy and dont want to talk who would type otherwise. Likewise people who lose tempers and yell can turn people off of the experience.

I have friends in RL and friends i meet online. Often the genres mix and occasionally i have met gamers outside the pixels who are very cool. We have other things in common besides loot and dragon killing, often not.

Personally, for me, voice chat doesnt build or progress friendships. Content over delivery of words. If i knew people would abstain from impersonations and squeaky yelling Vent would be fine. As it hasnt held back my gaming experience or goals in EQ I dont deem it necessary.

EQ is a game of skill for each player and strategy as a team. It's not reliant as much on timing. Build right, buff right...and wear the target down. MT transitions and CH chains come down to timing and often luck. The rest is just dice rolls and subtraction over a long fight.

For the record I've been a dps, off-tank, and puller on raids. Your opinions will vary and Im sure half of you have done things Ive never seen. I wouldnt dare think my experience is superior or the final word. The game has too many ways to accomplish the same goal :).

Edit: I forgot the great point by Lovely...music! I would rather pump tunes through a headset than voices. Arent we tryin to escape the boring 9-5 grind of life? (or trading it for the boring grind from 1-60 :p)

[pickled_heretic]

I'm not judgmental, I'm a realist! I played in the same World of Warcraft guild for almost 6 years and I was the leader the whole time. Over the course of 6 years I probably talked to over a thousand people on Ventrilo and I can honestly say that I only liked around 5-10 on a personal level that went past the gaming. Sure I had tons of fun with the other thousand people and we had a blast in game but outside gaming I shared almost no interests with those people.

We even had real life meetings several times in various countries. I always wanted to go to a warm place like Spain, France, Greece etc to hang out at the beach, go party, do sports and other social things. Do you think the majority wanted things like that? I can tell you maybe 1 more or person if any at all wanted things like that. Most people wanted to go to cold countries like Germany, Sweden, England and hang out in pubs and then go hang out at a internet cafe and that's what we always ended up doing to my displease. Therefor I don't prefer using voice communications because 95% of the time I just sit and listen to talk that I have absolutely no interest in and it just become annoying as fuck. I rather sit and listen to music and relax or just talk to a friend on skype while I play.

and i'll bet you are just a ray of sunshine compared to all of these people.

[Tadzi]

fuck I hate vent.

mumble on the other hand, that shit's awesome.

[pickled_heretic]

fuck I hate vent.

mumble on the other hand, that shit's awesome.

well yeah, mumble is clearly better. but i think what is meant by "vent" here is voice communication over ip in general.

[Lovely]

I am THE ray of sunshine that's for sure!!!! Loved by all beside those jealous of my awesomenessss

[Mardur]

I take it that your first experiences on these games involved using vent.

You were wrong here so I didn't read the rest of your post.

Mardur,

First there is nothing "bad" about using absolutes. The problem is if you use them on an easily debated statement regarding how "all" people opposing vent are nostalgic larpers it makes you look extremely ignorant. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming sassy hyperbole. :p

Second there are plenty of reasons not to use it (in a non-pvp game). Here are some opinions and some facts:

* It adds a layer of complexity (initial set-up) to an easy game.

There's lots of things in this world that take a small amount of effort for a payoff. Doesn't mean you should be lazy.

* It for some (ie twice as many per the poll) ruins the RPG element, thus making a game less fun. The benefit better be painfully obvious.

That's fine but I don't actually believe that I'm a 7 foot ogre hauling 8 backpacks full of weapons and armor across magical lands to meet with my Elven friends.

* The spoken word is often more difficult to understand due to mic quality and accents. We all dont have broadcasting training.

So what? Do you live in some caucasian utopia where you never have to talk to a non-American? For six months my job was heavy phone communication with people from Asia-Pacific. I didn't give up because I couldn't understand someone from Dubai.

* Vent was created a while after the game was launched. That means classic Fear raids and Trak. My guild was raiding Ssra w/o it prior to PoP. No clue if the officers used it...they were pretty bright tho.

So what? There's dozens of things on this server that weren't available in classic.

* Having open mic night for the guild rarely brings people together. High stress makes people irritable and chatter is less annoying in text. People often like to to hear there own voices which can negatively impact morale.

Again, stop playing with tools and you might have some enjoyable conversations!

* The game isnt that hard with hotkeys. Pulling, CH chains, etc. Its faster to bang a button and have people read than to yell a phrase. You can also scroll back up if things go wrong, "i said to fucking camp out...read it!"

You can't macro the millions of things you may type over the course fo the game. And not everyone is going to be focused enough to see everything that was typed, even with the ability to scroll up. "I said to fucking camp out...read it!" takes me about 3 seconds to type, and less than 1 second to say. How many times have you been killed < 5 seconds to camp out?

* Voices carry inherent character judgement. Deep voices more trusting, squeaky frantic less so. It's not fair for a person in a mmo to be judged for their RL age, voice, or appearance. Its why we dont always choose humans.

I'm not a piece of shit human being so I don't judge people based on their voice. Dunno about you.

* Some people are shy and dont want to talk who would type otherwise. Likewise people who lose tempers and yell can turn people off of the experience.

If you're too "shy" to talk over Ventrilo than you have serious life problems. However, it's not necessary to communicate, just beneficial. All that's required is to listen to officers/leaders.




By the way, I'm not sure what all the personal attacks are about when I did nothing but give my opinion on the original post.

I don't care if someone uses vent or not. I've agreed with many points of people who prefer not to use vent in this thread. But if you say something stupid like "I can't make believe that Ohugrok isn't really a powerful Ogre warlord when I hear his voice" I'm going to feel compelled to reply.

Here's something to think about. Goobles and I were both members of the top raiding guild on The Sleeper (2006). Ventrilo wasn't required in this guild, and I didn't use it. We still dominated content and by the time we broke up (with server merge), we were in Uqua and the #2 guild didn't even have an Emp Ssra kill yet.

Inglorious Basterds, although a great group of people, didn't exhibit the same level of skill as that guild. Even so, Goobles was guildremoved. Why? Because we were able to deduce that he was a hindrance to the guild mostly through his antics in Ventrilo.

Some players don't care if they're bad at the game or whatever, they have fun. That's fine. But for anyone who wants to make the best of the game, Ventrilo is a boon. And I tend to favor those who want to make the best of the game. But this is how I am in real life as well, I'm okay with people without drive, but they're generally not the people I respect and befriend. Everyone has preferences.

[SoulLeech]

I don't think there's any question that voice was a boon to online gaming in general.

That said, I have a love/hate relationship with it. Love the all-around utility and more personal nature. Hate what it can potentially reveal about the people you're playing with.

I don't know if it's that the players are simply socially inept or the relative anonymity makes them forget all the filters and social graces they would normally employ face to face?

[stormlord]

I can't vote because I don't like the options.

Here're some points, some of them repeated by others here:
1) A voice that's irritating or distracting or misplaced
2) People talking when they shouldn't or being a dumbsh**
3) Not being able to tell who said something (have to memorize the voices)
4) No record of what they've said like how a text window stores previous messages

Bah. I got to do something. But anyway, this is what I can think of.

Some things that would help would be .... I think that 3d-voice chat helps solve this problem somewhat. And maybe if they could show a symbol on the character that's speaking; both the 3d model and the name in the window(s). That would probably require it to be an in-game voice chat rather than a 3rd party. Things like this can help you to identify who is speaking. Another thing is to have a voice-to-text converter so that what people say in voice is stored in a chat window for future reference - in case you missed or didn't hear them right.

Ok, I have to go.

EDIT: void modulators can fix the distracting or irritating voice

[Tervvo]

I find it impossible to immerse myself in the game,it just becomes a chat room with Vent.

[SoulLeech]

and i'll bet you are just a ray of sunshine compared to all of these people.

At least these folks have explained themselves, provided some context, contributed something relevant to the question.

You've done nothing in this thread but leak a steady stream of utterly worthless contrarian, one-liner bullshit.

[Snaggles]

By the way, I'm not sure what all the personal attacks are about when I did nothing but give my opinion on the original post.


Lol, personal attacks? You said everyone who hates voice chat is someone who dresses up and runs through a forest with a foam sword. Later mentioning we are nerd haters. :confused:

I will agree with you (finally): We all have our preferences. It's part of having those innate human rights. Personally I don't like voice chat and find it shocking that I'm not in the minority.

Fact is I'm not a piece of shit human being for not wanting to talk to someone over a mic while looking at a rudimentary 3D model. It's just strange to me, especially when we refer to the player as their real name on Vent. I spent half the time trying to figure out which damn voice goes to which toon. Yes, everyone has automatic biases and often we don't even know they exist; that doesn't make us bigots, it just makes us complicated humans.

I want to know people as their toon and how they play because I don't care about anything else. Sure I talk about personal and casual stuff but I don't need to hear their voice or meet them in person. Frankly I meet a ton of people in 'real life' so sometimes cranking the music and getting drunk on a raid was pretty fun. You can still get to know people by typing, you're just judging the CONTENT without any biases.

Yea I've had good vent conversations. No it's not necessary for a slow-paced MMORPG because the last damn 3 letters stand for "Role Playing Game". I'm not changing my voice while playing a different race or living out some strange fantasy world where players are not just normal people. Pretty sure you guys are all just kicking back on a video game after a long day of school, work, or the mundane chores of life.

As an aside, it's very obvious that many of us are quite stubborn. I sure am! I certainly had no intention of offending, judging, or hating anyone with different preferences. Apologies if anyone felt attacked as the poll was just for fun. My own experiences were great without Ventrilo and poor with it, if the group of people on the other side of my headset were different maybe I would be in the other camp.

[pickled_heretic]

At least these folks have explained themselves, provided some context, contributed something relevant to the question.

You've done nothing in this thread but leak a steady stream of utterly worthless contrarian, one-liner bullshit.

i've explained all that needs explaining. these people are complaining about VOIP because they claim that they don't want to interact with antisocial neckbeards. I am positing that they themselves are the antisocial neckbeards that they decry. avoiding interaction with others? that sounds like neckbeardism to me.

[skulldudes]

i'll never forgive voice chat for killing good pvp in ultima online. well it, and the target closest macro.

i'd rather listen to music than a bunch of shitheads making 4chan references or inside jokes that nobody gives a shit about or something equally obnoxious, if these boards are any sort of indication of the type of people in big raiding guilds here.

[Lindalind]

a tool to make communicating with people easier has destroyed the mmo experience?

why do you people play mmos?


To escape all the verbiage.

[kaev]

Poll fails, lacks good options and the two comedy options seem uninspired.

I came to this server looking for an experience vaguely similar to 1999-2001 casual EQ, voice chat simply isn't part of that.

OTOH, when I play EVE Online I expect voice chat to be (effectively) mandatory, it kinda goes with the PvP environment.

:shrug:

Also, I'm pretty sure there've been plenty of neckbeards (including mine :P) in every online game I've ever played.

[falkun]

For most classes in EQ, I'd prefer text chat. Being a visual person, I like the "INC", "assist", and "CCed" macros. I like typing my responses to people in an IM fashion. I just like the immersion of text chat. That is all true when I play my paladin (especially back on Live).

On my bard though, vent is a life saver. Its so much to do trying to type, select mobs for CC, change songs every 3 seconds, and move my character/camera for a better angle in case of adds. All those actions leave my poor bard very little time to type text.

Basically, for most of the classes in EQ, I prefer typing, but on a bard, which everyone admits is "one-way path to carpal tunnel", vent/VOIP is a life-saver.

[HawkMasterson1999]

Its not classic. you're all cheating.

[pickled_heretic]

Its not classic. you're all cheating.

roger wilco broheim

[Trelaboon]

I never liked Vent, not even a little bit. To me, the excitement of this game, was entering a world, full of people, who's biggest problem was finding research components. You never knew who you were talking to, everyone was always on the same playing field, it's an escape from reality, and vent gets rid of that. Even today I never use vent, if my guilds require it, i'll leave.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I think the poll doesn't have enough options.. I hate it at times.. i like it at other times..

just depends on what I'm doing.

[Motec]

We had no problem without vent all the way through pop. I dont see a need for it.

That said, its better than writing 20,000 words every time you log on. My old EQ keyboards would wear out in a few months.

[Mcbard]

I can only think of one plus side for ventrilo: it speeds up communication between players.

There are a few downsides I can think of with it. I'm not sure if "immersion" is the term to describe how I feel when I used it, but it definitely ruins some aspect of the game. It takes you out of it for most of your communication. It solidifies the idea that the troll sk on your monitor is in fact a 20 year old dude in California. I'm not into roleplay or any of that stuff, but there is a difference between that being confirmed in your head and not. It's subconscious I think.

It also seems like some people are just too slow to handle communicating in both places at once. Frequently during raids people will completely tune out in game chat for 5-10 minutes at a time it seems. I personally don't have an issue with reading chat and listening at the same time, but a lot of people just expect to hear anything that is important over vent/ts and everything said in chat isn't relevant, which is COMPLETELY false and makes you a worse player for not absorbing all of the information presented to you imo.

So, did it destroy the MMORPG experience? No that would be a stupid thing to say. Did it alter it? Of course. For better or for worse? Both.

[HawkMasterson1999]

They felt it necessary to remove target rings and spell sets but they allow and actually encourage the use of a 3rd party program that many people say gives a decided advantage to gameplay? It should be a bannable offense.

[Fultun]

Funny someone claimed that "Text communication is kind of cold and archaic."

Yet I don't see the younger generation calling each other as much as I see them texting each other. :)

I never liked Voice in MMoRPG. I beleive it has it's use in raids. It's way easier to give instructions to large amount of people and groups via voice than typing and hoping the person necessary gets it. but even then, the channel should only be used by leaders, and others should only be listening.

For daily play it just annoyed me because 99% of the chat had nothing to do with the game. And like others said, trying to associate the voice with the character was mind numbing at times.

In 10-12 years of playing MMoRPGs, I dont think I ever had that much of a problem playing and typing at the same time. Sure there were times I didn't get "MOVE...CYCLOPS" in the chat window quick enough, but even then the 3 seconds it took didn't make much of a difference in the outcome. :)

Hell, I don't even play with my speakers on most nights.

[pickled_heretic]

They felt it necessary to remove target rings and spell sets but they allow and actually encourage the use of a 3rd party program that many people say gives a decided advantage to gameplay? It should be a bannable offense.

roger wilco broheim

[Messianic]

They felt it necessary to remove target rings and spell sets but they allow and actually encourage the use of a 3rd party program that many people say gives a decided advantage to gameplay? It should be a bannable offense.

Vent is a third party program that has nothing to do with EQ itself - it's not part of the client. Your analogy is really stupid.

I'm sure the GM's will apologize for not being able to annihilate new technology to help emulate the classic experience for you.

[Fultun]

On a sidenote, if the Voice chat was anything like I see in OOC in some zones, I really don't care to listen.

Sometimes I swear the zones are filled with 13 year olds. It's amazing the conversations and content of the arguments I see in chat.

[Messianic]

On a sidenote, if the Voice chat was anything like I see in OOC in some zones, I really don't care to listen.

Sometimes I swear the zones are filled with 13 year olds. It's amazing the conversations and content of the arguments I see in chat.

This. I'm also incredibly surprised at how lazy or non-resourceful so many of the players are.

"omg how do I get 2 kelethin i'm in the middle of a forest"
Me: "Google EQAtlas"


I'm actually doing them a favor, but they sometimes take it as a huge insult.

Oh, and edit to defend Mardur/Reiker from some jackass:

I'm just some opinionated idiot because I call someone an idiot who's actually one of the most knowledgeable people on the forums.

[pickled_heretic]

the difference between a voip server and ingame chat is pretty severe. you're usually only talking with guildmates or people you wanted to talk to in the first place on a voip server. if you can't be sociable with your guild over voip because you feel they are too immature, that either sounds like a personal problem or you joined the wrong guild.

[Fultun]

Or maybe I was making a general comment about the maturity level of the chat in game at most times.

[usedtobejubaloftorv]

I consider the lack of voice chat to be part of the hardcore difficulty factor that makes EQ appealing... and my experience is also that it was a lot easier to have a group of people act together in a disciplined manner WITHOUT voice than with it. With a voice channel there's always that one guy who uses it to distract rather than coordinate - maybe he just can't help himself but that's small consolation when you're picking up coffins in Neriak.

People with raid leadership experience both with and without voice chat will know what I mean... voice is a VERY mixed blessing for a raid/guild and can cause more problems than it can solve.

[HawkMasterson1999]

Vent is a third party program that has nothing to do with EQ itself - it's not part of the client. Your analogy is really stupid.

I'm sure the GM's will apologize for not being able to annihilate new technology to help emulate the classic experience for you.

My statement was never an analogy. Your failed observation is really stupid.

This. I'm also incredibly surprised at how lazy or non-resourceful so many of the players are.

"omg how do I get 2 kelethin i'm in the middle of a forest"
Me: "Google EQAtlas"


I'm actually doing them a favor, but they sometimes take it as a huge insult.

Oh, and edit to defend Mardur/Reiker from some jackass:

Don't be a dick. Just tell him a /loc if your anywhere near town. Haven't you ever asked a guy on the street what time it was? If he told me to go find my own clock i'd have to tell him to go f**k himself

[pickled_heretic]

using VOIP while playing everquest was never a bannable offense. analogies or not, the anger you direct against VOIP is irrational and pointless.

[Rasah]

It is an advancement if everyone is using Vent. If only half the people are using vent, then it ruined the game.

[pickled_heretic]

It is an advancement if everyone is using Vent. If only half the people are using vent, then it ruined the game.

wut

[EnnoiaII]

For EverQuest I never liked live voice chat, but the game was so simple before voice chat was available to everyone that it wasn't necessary. Games like WoW where mechanics are a bit more complicated on boss fights made it a requirement. For things like WoW PvP or League of Legends, it's a necessity. You can't afford to be typing out commands in those type of games.

As far as whether or not it 'ruined' MMO gaming...I don't think it had an effect either way.

[Rasah]

wutIf everyone is using vent, it makes communication faster.

If only half the people are using vent, the people using it forget to tell the people that are not using it, and everything is a clusterf*ck. I see it happen every day.

That's wut.

[HawkMasterson1999]

using VOIP while playing everquest was never a bannable offense. analogies or not, the anger you direct against VOIP is irrational and pointless.

I was never angry with VOIP. I just don't think it has a proper place in "classic" everquest.

I am a little annoyed at having somebody call my comments stupid. That's probably what you are picking up on.

[pickled_heretic]

If everyone is using vent, it makes communication faster.

If only half the people are using vent, the people using it forget to tell the people that are not using it, and everything is a clusterf*ck. I see it happen every day.

That's wut.

most guilds that do anything here require VOIP. The ones that don't still have huge VOIP attendance (90%+) even if it's not mandatory. people who refuse to use VOIP are probably just excluding themselves from doing anything with one of the bigger guilds.

[feste]

Ive only ever used vent for wow and then only with RL friends. Its nice to shoot the shit while soloing and also works out real well for 5 man and 10 man things. So I guess I liked it.
I have to say though It would have been weird to put voices to all my old eq guildies. What if our big warrior main tank sounded like a pip squeak. Would have been awful. And lets be honest it would have killed all that fun cyber with the "girls"

[Tuffpuppy]

If you need Vent for EQ you or your guild are just bad. FPS's on the other hand, it is a must have.

[Messianic]

My statement was never an analogy. Your failed observation is really stupid.

And here is the hallmark sign of a stupid argument - I have to actually define a basic, commonplace word:

Analogy: 1) a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

They felt it necessary to remove target rings and spell sets but they allow and actually encourage the use of a 3rd party program that many people say gives a decided advantage to gameplay? It should be a bannable offense.

Similarity - two "features" which are "not classic" which apparently received different treatment
Comparison - VOIP represents a non-classic piece of technology which wasn't in the original game. Implied: using 3rd party programs is not classic and therefore bannable, as with MQ/ShowEQ/whatever. It gives an undue advantage - therefore it should be bannable.

Don't be a dick. Just tell him a /loc if your anywhere near town.

It's just as easy for him to google or have bookmarks for town maps...It's not being a dick to refuse to help people who refuse to help themselves.

Haven't you ever asked a guy on the street what time it was? If he told me to go find my own clock i'd have to tell him to go f**k himself

Failed analogy. The guy on EQ obviously has internet access or he wouldn't be there. Not everyone on the street has access to a clock/watch/phone.

[HawkMasterson1999]

target rings are to non classic as voip is to non classic.... thats not an analogy. They are not parallel relationships, they are the same thing. Thats like saying "a cat is to animal as a dog is to animal". They are not analogies. Try again plz

[pickled_heretic]

as has been repeated several times already, voip was very much classic. people were using roger wilco before ventrilo existed.

[HawkMasterson1999]

The guy on the street can glance at his watch in half a second. Eq player can type /loc in half a second. You can go find a clock elsewhere like inside a store or in your car but this takes much more time and effort. Just like hitting alt tab and loading multiple websites takes way more time. This is an actual analogy since you obviously don't know. An apt analogy at that.

[pickled_heretic]

The guy on the street can glance at his watch in half a second. Eq player can type /loc in half a second. You can go find a clock elsewhere like inside a store or in your car but this takes much more time and effort. Just like hitting alt tab and loading multiple websites takes way more time. This is an actual analogy since you obviously don't know. An apt analogy at that.

non sequitur. voip was classic. if you're on some kind of crusade to get ventrilo banned, you are going to be in for a lot of disappointment.

[Messianic]

target rings are to non classic as voip is to non classic.... thats not an analogy. They are not parallel relationships, they are the same thing. Thats like saying "a cat is to animal as a dog is to animal". They are not analogies. Try again plz

Again, look at the definition for an analogy. It's not narrowly defined to a pure parallel relationship - the only two key elements are similarities and comparisons.

Do you need me to put the definition in another post for you, or should I just give you a link?

Here, i'll do the "nice thing" like you said:

1) a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based

How much do you need me to hold your hand on this? Sorry, you made an analogy, then denied it was an analogy, then made another poor analogy.

You made a comparison of like features of two things based on their similarities.

You made an analogy.

U mad?

The guy on the street can glance at his watch in half a second. Eq player can type /loc in half a second. You can go find a clock elsewhere like inside a store or in your car but this takes much more time and effort. Just like hitting alt tab and loading multiple websites takes way more time. This is an actual analogy since you obviously don't know. An apt analogy at that.

The EQ player asking for directions can alt-tab and click on a shortcut or google eqatlas before most people respond, and in the process of doing so he's actually learning something about the game.

And you're also assuming these people know how to use locs (given the inversion of the x-y axes in the way the game reports them). I could post the loc and still not help them.

Why not just give the eqatlas info and expect them to see the loc grid on those maps along with landmarks? That's a complete solution.


I think it's dickish to expect people to always give you help "just because it only takes a second". I certainly don't expect it of people.

[youngmoney]

vent is not classic. my guild and i never used vent back on live...typing fast and playing takes uber skillz...and to add to the fact, it's pretty nerdtastic to sit there with a headset on talking to people you've never met before. i made fun of my friend in college whenever he was on vent on wow and i'm sure those of you like my friend here feel like a douchebag when this does happen to you (assuming you're not married and have kids and have nothing to worry about looking like a loser because your kids wont judge you, unless they're 15+ in which they're probably secretly making fun of you to their friends).

[pickled_heretic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Wilco_(software)

This is what I used. Vent didn't exist, other VOIP programs did.

[nilbog]

target rings are to non classic as voip is to non classicWe can't enforce 'not using voip'. It's not possible with all of the different ways to communicate. We can, and did remove target rings, because it is within our control.

However, if removing voip was an option, I'd consider it. If somehow it was possible to know what % of messages were sent via /tell versus how many were spoken on voip, on eqlive, from 1999-2001, I'd imagine the result would be 99.9% text tells.

I also consider it a personal preference. I was a pvp guild leader in wow (lolz yea) and the first rule of my guild was no voip for raids. If people couldn't read, they couldn't be in my guild.

So, do I think that voip progressed mmorpgs? I think it progressed the MMO, at the expense of the RPG.

[Messianic]

The argument whether vent is classic is moot. It's neither classic nor post-classic. Classic and post-classic are more appropriate to apply to features within the game mechanics, client, etc.

A technology separate from EQ that was only used in a limited capacity back then is very commonplace now. That's the only difference. If you think it ruins your immersion, don't do it.

But if you're going to argue that players may only use comparable technology that only existed back in 2000/1999, are you going to pull out your Pentium 3's and roll with 32-64 GB's of RAM? Because it took me 90-120 seconds to zone during off-peak hours back then. It takes me about 10-15 seconds now. That's a major advantage.

Are you going to go with dial-up if Broadband wasn't available to you back in 2000? Because to many, it wasn't. Broadband is all over the place now.

Are you going to put away your 25" widescreen LCD and pull out a 16' white tube screen that puts a crapton of stress on your eyes?

Vent is merely a technology innovation that makes coordination easier. It has nothing to do with EQ itself.

[EnnoiaII]

So, do I think that voip progressed mmorpgs? I think it progressed the MMO, at the expense of the RPG.

That's a good way to put it.

I can see not wanting dumb people in your guild, but with WoW raids sometimes you had to have voice chat. If someone did screw up/get hit by something/have something targeting them that few seconds it takes to type it out as opposed to just saying it could mean the difference between a wipe or not. Hell, WoW had a built-in voice chat (that I don't think ever actually worked).

[Messianic]

We can't enforce 'not using voip'. It's not possible with all of the different ways to communicate. We can, and did remove target rings, because it is within our control.

However, if removing voip was an option, I'd consider it. If somehow it was possible to know what % of messages were sent via /tell versus how many were spoken on voip, on eqlive, from 1999-2001, I'd imagine the result would be 99.9% text tells.

I also consider it a personal preference. I was a pvp guild leader in wow (lolz yea) and the first rule of my guild was no voip for raids. If people couldn't read, they couldn't be in my guild.

So, do I think that voip progressed mmorpgs? I think it progressed the MMO, at the expense of the RPG.

I remember our guild officers creating like 5-10 macros each that handled all the aspects of a fight. Tank switches, CH chains, commands for clerics to camp, I had macros for secondary pullers to grab stuff from me, etc, often using the %T and similar wildcard elements... It required a lot of creativity with the text elements of the game.

Hey, that's cool if people want to really immerse themselves without VOIP assistance - and i'm sure it's possible - but I don't see it as superior in a "classic" sense.

[HawkMasterson1999]

I barely even care about voice chat. They had VOIP in 1999? I didn't know that. I can accept that. I'm not on any crusade. I didn't start the thread. I'm simply responding to the question put forth by the thread.

Just don't talk shit about my analogies. Especially if you don't understand the concept.




It's just as easy for him to google or have bookmarks for town maps...It's not being a dick to refuse to help people who refuse to help themselves.

Do I need anymore proof that you're a condescending prick? You think when people ask for a loc they really never heard of eq atlas or google? Just give them the loc.Its called courtesy.

[Messianic]

Just don't talk shit about my analogies. Especially if you don't understand the concept.

Understood. So you admit your initial statement was an analogy? This whole thing would be over had you done that sooner :)

Oh, but expect me to "talk shit" about whatever I want. I wasn't insulting you - just the analogy made. And yeah, again, it was an analogy. Maybe I could have been nicer about it or used more neutral language. That's fine - but I wasn't offensive in any way nor did I direct anger at you.

Do I need anymore proof that you're a condescending prick? You think when people ask for a loc they really never heard of eq atlas or google? Just give them the loc.Its called courtesy.

See, here's the real beginning of the "shit talking". And although it actually ended a few posts ago, the official end of real conversation is marked here.

I'll continue giving people the resources to help themselves and call it better than courtesy. You can waste your time assuming you know anything about someone else's character based solely on whether they give someone a loc in EQ.

[HawkMasterson1999]

I was refering to the later post that actually used an analogy. The earlier, non-analogy, post remains correct as I originally posted it.

[Lovely Icecomet]

pfft when forced to use i'd install and mute simple fix really

[bonehand]

I can't say it hurt MMO's, it probably makes them more fun in my opinion...and if you don't want to use it, then don't....of course that might exclude you from certain guilds, but you aren't in multiplayer game to meet other players anyway, right?!?! :rolleyes:

[Lucidus]

Didn't use voip in EQ, and pulled off some truly astounding clusterfuck encounters through a combination of group cohesion, /raid fk inc mem ae!!!, and a ton of luck.

Did use voip during my brief attempts at tolerating WoW, discovered everyone was a 11yo boy irl.

Leroy Jenkins is the result of vent/ts - dumbfuck can't be arsed to study the encounter because its easier to wipe and wait for the lecture from the raid leader.

[EnnoiaII]

Understood. So you admit your initial statement was an analogy? This whole thing would be over had you done that sooner :)

Oh, but expect me to "talk shit" about whatever I want. I wasn't insulting you - just the analogy made. And yeah, again, it was an analogy. Maybe I could have been nicer about it or used more neutral language. That's fine - but I wasn't offensive in any way nor did I direct anger at you.



See, here's the real beginning of the "shit talking". And although it actually ended a few posts ago, the official end of real conversation is marked here.

I'll continue giving people the resources to help themselves and call it better than courtesy. You can waste your time assuming you know anything about someone else's character based solely on whether they give someone a loc in EQ.

Nah, he's right, you're a condescending prick. I'm fully aware of EQAtlas, Alla, and everything else...maybe I'm doing something where I can't tab out and get on a web browser.

[Flunklesnarkin]

My biggest concern with vent is how a lot of people view it as the "only" way to communicate..

typing can help during raids also.. its not like every body can speak at the same time on vent.

Idk if p99 can have custom chat channels (type) or what not.. but those do help out during raids.. like say a channel for healers.. so healers can communicate when casting long spells so they don't overlap or w/e.

I've been in guilds where people wouldn't do anything but chat in vent... I mean i like vent for raids and stuff.. but i dont want to have a headset on the entire time i play.

[Haul]

I am an old school gamer. People ask me how I type so fast and in reality it was because I was forced to get good at typing to play games effectively.


There isn't a better way to teach someone to type then having them type to their friends about some funny shit or something important.

There are a lot of games that wouldn't be able to function the way they do without voice communication because there is just no time to type, and the people who make the game know you will have voice so they don't bother to put that time in.

For MMOs I like typing the most. You never forget what someone says because you can just scroll up, on voice you might not really understand them because of an accent or the distance between their mouth and mic. Its also better for conflict. There are always those people who say "No I didn't say that, or No he told me this and this and this". If it's typed its all there and you cant dispute it.

This ^. EQ isn't that difficult bros, and you sure as hell don't need vent to be sucessful in it. I get enough socialization irl school/work and from friends and family. Why would I wanna spend time girl chatting with some sausage fest nerds and gays. Voice communication for EQ is really only helpful in unique raid situations I guess, and if your guild/group is retarded enough to not see main assist/mezzed mobs called in guild/group chat. The majority of time p99 raid vents were hella boring and a cricket fest. I guess it could be diff if its a small group of friends in vent, but still this isn't counterstrike or call of duty. I'm tryna listen to music, tv, and or chill. Not listen to some gay fag kid who thinks hes a genius in vent lawl. /rantoff

[Flunklesnarkin]

worst thing is people who try to practice rapping in vent.. yah fake rapper dude.. im looking at you.. get out of my vent >:U

[Galelor]

Hate and love vent. Ended up spending my last year or 2 of EQ time raiding with a Euro guild on Xegony. Needless to say, vent would have been worthless for us... We were fairly high end, and did just fine without it. That said, there was an audio trigger for 'Heads Up' that people were 'required' to have set up. During the heat of tough encounters I basically did NO communication, because as a shaman in general I couldn't spare the keystrokes... Still, vent clearly has its place and has been very helpful and fun over the years.

I am an old school gamer. People ask me how I type so fast and in reality it was because I was forced to get good at typing to play games effectively...

This is the best comment I have seen in this thread. I type 90-100 words a minute, and it is thanks to EQ and similar games. No other single skill helps me to be as effective at work than being able to type quickly and accurately. I have worked with programmers who hunt and peck, and I can at least double their output... As an overworked manager, I rely heavily on email communication and quick typing gets it done! (I actually got my start in IT because a friend of a friend saw me typing and using a computer one day before we went out for drinks...)

Excuse me sir, but we cannot hire you because you cannot type quickly or accurately enough to communicate effectively. I suggest you play EQ for 1 year and we will then reevaluate your application. Thank you, come again.

Video games are good for something after all!

[Seaweedpimp]

sausage fest nerds and gays.

ya

[citizen1080]

I do not like voice chat for EQ. Or most games in fact. I play to relax and the last thing I want is some retard shouting in my ear all evening.

I have led multiple raiding guilds in other games and I will say that voice chat makes things 1000x easier as a raid leader/guild leader. But unless I am filling that role I would rather not deal with it.