One spell to rule them all

[Fangorn]

I am not particularly good at pvp, so I was wondering if there was one spell that I could cast (preferably over and over) in order to win. Which class would be best for this? I am of course assuming wizard. Thanks all

[tmoneynegro]

I am not particularly good at pvp, so I was wondering if there was one spell that I could cast (preferably over and over) in order to win. Which class would be best for this? I am of course assuming wizard. Thanks all

Necros can be powerful but take 10x more skill than wizard so either wizard spamming nukes or mage sending pet then running away and hiding.

[Wonton]

since you're bad at pvp, you're probably bad at everquest. with that said, you most likely need to be carried. One button over and over to win? seems like the perfect class for you is a cleric.

[Wonton]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=9453

[mitic]

Necros can be powerful but take 10x more skill than wizard so either wizard spamming nukes or mage sending pet then running away and hiding.

now iam interested... what kind of skill does it take as a necro to be as powerfull than a wiz or mage? ;)

[Lovely]

This thread does not belong on a pvp server. Go blue boys

[Envious]

Deflux.

[Cymbal]

since you're bad at pvp, you're probably bad at everquest. with that said, you most likely need to be carried. One button over and over to win? seems like the perfect class for you is a cleric.

carry me wonton!

so i can say

get...

dominated

[Bockscar]

If you're so new to PvP that the best you can do is stand there spamming one spell over and over, you won't win no matter which one you try.

[Pudge]

wizard. but you will have to throw some stuns in there. and keep yonder up

[Mardur]

Yeah, wizard's probably the easiest.

Cast:
Arch Shielding
Elemental Armor
Diamondskin

Find someone
Cast:
Ice Comet
Markar's Clash / Yonder
Ice Comet
Markar's Clash / Yonder
Ice Comet

You or opponent is dead by now.

Mage is about the same, send in an earth/air pet and chain Lava Bolt or whatever the highest one is. Victory is just slightly less guaranteed.

[Dontmez_Mebro]

Hooray for balance!

[jrwriter]

Ice comit is iwin button

[Bockscar]

Except it isn't. With a 6.30 sec cast time and being easily resistable, it's not that hard to protect yourself against it. Coupled with the insane 400 mana cost, most wizards can only cast three of them. There's even a +35 CR cloak in Kedge, or a much easier +20 one in Everfrost. It's the easiest resist to raise.

[tbox]

Except it isn't. With a 6.30 sec cast time and being easily resistable, it's not that hard to protect yourself against it. Coupled with the insane 400 mana cost, most wizards can only cast three of them. There's even a +35 CR cloak in Kedge, or a much easier +20 one in Everfrost. It's the easiest resist to raise.

I am going to disagree on the resist part. Regardless of how many cold resist items are out there people tend to stack magic resist mainly. I don't foresee the majority of players stacking cold resist unless there is an over abundance of wizards.

Lvling wise I think mage is easier then a necro in terms of not having do as many things to solo xp. Although wizard is slower at xp then a mage it is easier to play nakid because you don't have to have malachite on you at all times.

To the author of the thread. If you are looking for a guild and have ventrilo and a willingness to work at improving your EQ pvp skills send me a pm. I dont have a problem with people who just need some guidance in game.

[Bockscar]

It's pretty common for well-geared people to have about 120 CR. Add a resist cold buff and you're pretty well off to take most of the sting out of an ice comet. Considering the long cast time and the fact that a wizard can probably only cast three of them, it won't be wizards who rule the world.

[Kringe]

It's pretty common for well-geared people to have about 120 CR. Add a resist cold buff and you're pretty well off to take most of the sting out of an ice comet. Considering the long cast time and the fact that a wizard can probably only cast three of them, it won't be wizards who rule the world.

I am unsure where most people get these "easy to resist" quotes from...

I distinctively remember have 150-160 cold in classic and getting blasted for near full dmg alot in classic... This magical 150-170 range didnt all of a sudden make you immune to said spells (with the exception of magic based spell line) in classic at all... It wasnt till after you reached over 200 did this even play a factor in the cockiness of "Im well resisted prepped" and can feel safe in absorbing a decent amount of your spell damage.

To many Vz/tz resist code memories floating around.

[Bockscar]

Who's talking about immune? My point is that 140-160 CR would make you survive three ice comets fairly frequently (if you even let the guy get three 6.30-sec nukes off), and then the wizard is OOM. If you believe that 170 CR made little difference and that resist rates for nukes aren't decent until 200+, it's your memory that should be questioned. 100-120ish is where you start frequently shaving off a significant portion of nuke damage, 150-170 is when nukes become pretty unreliable, and 200+ is practical immunity. I hate to be that guy, but do you actually have any kind of memory of classic PvP? Your statement suggests you don't. If it took 200 to be merely decently protected against nukes, clerics and magicians would be among the strongest endgame PvP classes.

To many Vz/tz resist code memories floating around.

That doesn't even make sense and is completely contrary to your own argument. Spells were harder to resist on VZTZ. I also didn't play on VZTZ for more than a few months.

[Muaar]

Two sides far apart with the truth in the middle. You didnt need 200 resist to resist spells. All but the most well geared melee would be worthless.

[valithteezee]

If you're worried about resists roll a necro! Lifetap pretty unresistable

[Dontmez_Mebro]

So a group of 4 wizards should be able to kill any one person instantly? Correct?

[Pudge]

fire/cold were too easy to resist on vztz imo. last box i just laughed at a wizard while he spammed ice comet till he ran oom. i had like 110 resist. never took any damage

ppl rarely stack cold resist in classic though, the only thing to get it for is ice comet. however.. wizards get FIRE nukes as well! omgz! if cold doesnt work, click the fire button..

[Bockscar]

Cold resist is underrated. Half the druid nukes are cold, shaman nukes are cold, the best pre-Kunark wizard nuke is cold, and the best wizard draught is cold. I'd stack cold resist over fire pre-Kunark where it's really only lava bolt and one half of the druid nuke combo that's fire. Regarding that, I'd rather fully resist Ice to avoid the -50FR debuff that'll make Starfire land hard. Both nukes are otherwise identical. Conflagration does 400 damage in PvP if it lands fully, so if a wizard has to use that spell due to my stacking cold resist, I'm happy with that. Cold resist is easier to stack than fire, too.

[Kringe]

Who's talking about immune? My point is that 140-160 CR would make you survive three ice comets fairly frequently (if you even let the guy get three 6.30-sec nukes off), and then the wizard is OOM. If you believe that 170 CR made little difference and that resist rates for nukes aren't decent until 200+, it's your memory that should be questioned. 100-120ish is where you start frequently shaving off a significant portion of nuke damage, 150-170 is when nukes become pretty unreliable, and 200+ is practical immunity. I hate to be that guy, but do you actually have any kind of memory of classic PvP? Your statement suggests you don't. If it took 200 to be merely decently protected against nukes, clerics and magicians would be among the strongest endgame PvP classes.



That doesn't even make sense and is completely contrary to your own argument. Spells were harder to resist on VZTZ. I also didn't play on VZTZ for more than a few months.


I think its your memory that maybe jaded... I was pretty well known on RZ for a very long time, and yet no one recalls you ever in classic pvp and or what server did you play on?

Mages were garbage (there best nuke Bolt was easily LoS avoidable, clerics were actually very good and their nukes even tho mr based and resisted id say post 150 fairly often were not to be frowned upon)

Lets rehash some classic portions you may or may not be unfamiliar with...

Ice Comet (Class Wizard) - You used to be able to stand at the entrance to Dead Side Lower Guk (assist a target on someone) and literally cast and hit them in the safe hall drop below the bridge... I realise this has nothing to do with the resist arguement but I'll get to that, hang tight. Now by your own posts so far (easy to get 170mr on a warrior, easy to get 150cold/fire) you are basically telling the community you are a proponent of melee and casters are literally worthless in classic (minus the early rush to 50 and the short term wait for a few melee to gear up). When everyone (at least from RZs stand point) remembers the most devasting combo for almost a year was Enchanter/Wizard (but again from your stand point and all these unbuffed resists you are throwing out there, both are worthless) Badmartigan/Ilsen anyone?

Again your memory is jaded... Hardly anyone had resist jewlery for the first 6months (you would be lucky to have 1 Jacinth or Diamond Ring)and gems didnt drop like candy from planes (vz/tz memories) or from Dino as often as some may think. I know this because I was the 3rd Enchanter to 50 and one of the only high end JCers on RZ (Played Rigamortiz if you must know)

One part of your jaded memory is true (post Id say 150, you could/can resist the spell line, Fire line seemed much easier to resist than cold (given the fact IC has a small built in resist factor/and Temp Flux staff..) it wasnt resisted/partially resisted near as much.. It still had a strong impact.

So one last rehash, if we go off your theories (No one on the entire server should roll any caster whatsoever, because you will A) Get fully resisted on ALL your Spell lines post 120 or close to it where it means nothing.
B) Will only be able to live your glory for the first month of 50s and become worthless the rest of your EQ Career other than a Portbot/Healbot/Buffbot.)
Now lets sit back a second and think about that.


PS Im curious to know who you played (what server) and more of your "classic memories".

Again this isnt a pissing match, I just dont want to see someone who is a proponent of melee, try and throw casters out the window completely.

[God-King Abacab]

I take myself way too seriously on a video game forum

Don't you ever have anything to say that isn't a 5 page essay over your memories of Rallos Zek and why you think X should be X? I'm starting to think this right here is 90% of your free-time, especially with how aggressively and vapidly you rage on about this stuff.

[Kringe]

Don't you ever have anything to say that isn't a 5 page essay over your memories of Rallos Zek and why you think X should be X? I'm starting to think this right here is 90% of your free-time, especially with how aggressively and vapidly you rage on about this stuff.

Lets see..

Kringe
Orc
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 41

God-King Abacab
Kobold
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 168

Bockscar
Sarnak
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Nothing to see here move along..

[Lovely]

Project99 is 99.5% talk and 0.5% in game action. People sit here and post shit all day and suck ass in game.

[Silikten]

I played a mage from velious to PoP. I must say, mages did very well. Once PoP came out, the resists skyrocketed and they became utterly useless until the level 80 expansion.

I just remember nukes landed always consistently, but they were partials. The partials were usually always on the higher half though. For instance, ice comet did 900ish? so the partial would still hit for 450+ most of the time.

That is pre-debuff status. Once you had flux staff, perhaps mala, few dispells, nukes landed very easily. The worst part was not having levi to fly over someone while u float down casting a 6 second nuke.

[Sarkov]

@Kringe: some free advice... you should never, ever say anything like "I was pretty well known on RZ for a very long time." If you have to point out that you are famous and kind of a big deal, you are probably neither of those things. Brad Pitt doesn't have to walk into a room and be like "DO U KNOW WHO I AM???". He's just cool. Just be cool.

[Bockscar]

I think its your memory that maybe jaded... I was pretty well known on RZ for a very long time, and yet no one recalls you ever in classic pvp and or what server did you play on?
(...)
PS Im curious to know who you played (what server) and more of your "classic memories".

I played on TZ as Eloran and Nebuchanezer, and on SZ as Hrothgar (SnP/Umbra) and Hodja (BP), but I'm euro so this mostly-US playerbase doesn't really know me. I was part of the danecrew, though not the RZ/VZ ones. "I'm so famous" is not a very compelling argument. If you have to pull that crap into the discussion, it makes people even less inclined to believe you're right.

Now by your own posts so far (easy to get 170mr on a warrior, easy to get 150cold/fire) you are basically telling the community you are a proponent of melee and casters are literally worthless in classic (minus the early rush to 50 and the short term wait for a few melee to gear up).
(...)
One part of your jaded memory is true (post Id say 150, you could/can resist the spell line, Fire line seemed much easier to resist than cold (given the fact IC has a small built in resist factor/and Temp Flux staff..) it wasnt resisted/partially resisted near as much.. It still had a strong impact.
(...)
So one last rehash, if we go off your theories (No one on the entire server should roll any caster whatsoever, because you will A) Get fully resisted on ALL your Spell lines post 120 or close to it where it means nothing.
B) Will only be able to live your glory for the first month of 50s and become worthless the rest of your EQ Career other than a Portbot/Healbot/Buffbot.)

Establishing fabricated points to give yourself something to argue against isn't going to make you right. I've said that 170 MR or 150 FR/CR is possible, never easy, and generally not unbuffed. In fact, I've specifically pointed out that 150+ FR/CR usually requires buffs. I've simply pointed out the levels of resist that are possible to obtain, and disputed your argument that this or that spell isn't made much less useful even by those resists. I've never said anyone will "get fully resisted on ALL your spell lines post 120," that comes from your... jaded memory. I said: 100-120ish is where you start frequently shaving off a significant portion of nuke damage. Warping statements I made as recently as last page does not help your case.

I didn't bring my chosen class type into this (I haven't decided on one yet), so there's little point in trying to argue that I just want to win advantages for myself. If you want to get into that whole spiel (which, again, is completely irrelevant to the discussion) then it looks just as likely that you're doing the same. The only difference is that your claims are absurd.

Regardless of that, let's stick to what's actually relevant here. My argument is that resists become strong against nukes at 100-120ish, very strong at 150+, and make you nearly immune at 200+. Your argument, as far as I can tell, is that you need 150+ to even be able to resist nukes and 200 to be decently protected. I hope I'm not sounding smug when I say that anyone who actually knows their shit is aware of how far off the mark you are. By the way, all the normal wizard nukes have that -10 resist check. You're not impressing anyone by pointing out that Ice Comet has it.

If you're worried about casters becoming worthless, don't fret. As we both know, most people won't be running around with insanely high resists, and most caster classes have ways around it anyway. You are presumably not suggesting that wizards will still be casting Ice Comet in Kunark. The reason they were given lures was because high resists routinely countered wizards in PvP.

When everyone (at least from RZs stand point) remembers the most devasting combo for almost a year was Enchanter/Wizard (but again from your stand point and all these unbuffed resists you are throwing out there, both are worthless) Badmartigan/Ilsen anyone?
(...)
Again your memory is jaded... Hardly anyone had resist jewlery for the first 6months (you would be lucky to have 1 Jacinth or Diamond Ring)and gems didnt drop like candy from planes (vz/tz memories) or from Dino as often as some may think. I know this because I was the 3rd Enchanter to 50 and one of the only high end JCers on RZ (Played Rigamortiz if you must know)

The two are likely connected. Most people didn't have great resists back then, you said it yourself. A lot of things will be different here, as they were on VZTZ and P99.

Again this isnt a pissing match, I just dont want to see someone who is a proponent of melee, try and throw casters out the window completely.

Didn't you turn it into a pissing match when you brought in the whole "well I was this famous, how about you" nonsense? I'm just interested in the facts. You seem more concerned with being right regardless of whether or not what you're saying is correct.

[Cwall]

"I'm so famous" is not a very compelling argument. If you have to pull that crap into the discussion, it makes people even less inclined to believe you're right.

people are generally famous for being good players

how does that detract from someone's credibility?

what a moran

[Bockscar]

Being a good player 10+ years ago doesn't mean everything he says is right. Why don't you address what he said instead of what his name is?

[fiegi]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uuOo8x3WXWE/R4pOm8W4ltI/AAAAAAAALMg/VAf11I8Mgnw/s400/shaqs-big-dick.jpg

[Cwall]

what's with these chumps not understanding basic rhetoric skills

[Nirgon]

Think this before you post "did I actually play EQ before Kunark on a pvp server"? If yes, "did I regularly participate in pvp"? If yes? Continue.

Unfortunately Kringe is trying to make a solid point. He has a lot of time invested in actual pre-kunark pvp as a caster. This "I played on SZ / started in Velious" crowd is just a joke with the "you take this too seriously" defense when they get put in a position where comparatively they don't know shit. Most of you actually, fucking do not, have a lvl 50 character who raided and pvp'd on one of the classic pvp servers. Yet, you continue to post away.

Most people can't even offer what characters they played or cite specific examples, let alone several. People are on here saying they resisted drones line from druids and shit, or 4 ice comets never put a dent in them and was a shit spell. It is absolutely fucking silly. I further absolutely don't believe the people posting here had full sets of diamond or a 35 cold resist kedge cloak back in classic on a pre-kunark pvp server.

What you see above is people saying "what you remember doesn't count" and then just making shit up, or basing it on post Velious or VZTZ experiences. I'd wager I can count on one hand how many people that will play on this server actually had experience in meaningful, classic EQ pvp.

[Kringe]

The reason they were given lures was because high resists routinely countered wizards in PvP.

wow, just Wow... I will refrain from posting anymore after reading this..

Let me get this straight... Sony (Verant) gave Wizards.... Lures (spell line) because high reists routinely countered wizards in PVP (10% of the entire population) the other 90% (Blue Servers) got the spell for kicks and giggles... (something cool to look at)...


CWall is correct, it has nothing to do with being Famous, but moreso along the lines of credibility...

Fuck people were talking about me here over a year ago, before I even knew about P99..

08-27-2010, 08:46 AM VictoryARC
Kobold

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 105


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On RZ my chanter buddy Rigamortiz would solo the ghoul lord all the time.
__________________
Icktorvi Subterfuge- 50 th level Troll Shaman
<Dozekar> p1999


And that was a 1minute search..
Big things... Small places..

[Nirgon]

Being a good player 10+ years ago doesn't mean everything he says is right. Why don't you address what he said instead of what his name is?

The point is some of us actually played 10+ years ago and are getting annoyed with the amount of fronting going on up in here.

[Dontmez_Mebro]

wow, just Wow... I will refrain from posting anymore after reading this..

Let me get this straight... Sony (Verant) gave Wizards.... Lures (spell line) because high reists routinely countered wizards in PVP (10% of the entire population) the other 90% (Blue Servers) got the spell for kicks and giggles... (something cool to look at)...


CWall is correct, it has nothing to do with being Famous, but moreso along the lines of credibility...

Fuck people were talking about me here over a year ago, before I even knew about P99..



And that was a 1minute search..
Big things... Small places..

Your boyfriend talking about your cosplay exploits don't count. :P

[Envious]

Seriously?

Gear + Deflux = 1 button win.

[Nirgon]

Yeah especially when deflux doesn't heal you if it hits a damage absorb (hi manaskin) and does piss damage in pvp.

Maybe I'll get lucky and this will bait you with the "I'll dispel manaskin" response.

Maybe I'll get unlucky and every time I reply to a post I'll be giving some pvp 101 lessons.

[Amuk]

I have heard of rigamorteez.

I played classic live but wasn't part of the geared crowd, rolled around with maybe 100 to resists buffed and got shit on by ice comets and other spells, so I will avoid this 170 CR talk.

edit - I will say tho obviously avoiding the cast time is easy in solo pvp, it's the sucker punch ice comet in grp pvp that was a beotch for my sham, and usualyl once the first landed it was hard/near impossible to recover with gheal.

[Kringe]

I have heard of rigamorteez.

I played classic live but wasn't part of the geared crowd, rolled around with maybe 100 to resists buffed and got shit on by ice comets and other spells, so I will avoid this 170 CR talk.

Never fear just 20more resists and 3-4 ice comets wouldnt have done much to you at all man...

Also ALL your dispells/dispell lines would/could be resisted fairly easy back then as well....

All of this ... Known facts... Lol

[Nirgon]

Resisting dispells and shrugging off ice comets and beating down billy bad asses. Amuk was like the Agent Smith in the Zek servers.

I have heard of

Fucking a lot of things lol.

[Bockscar]

It's pretty pointless to discuss something with someone who doesn't read the arguments and just makes up imaginary statements that he can argue against and "be right."

I trust Rogean won't listen to your absurd version when he codes the resist system.

Kringe is completely incapable of discussing anything, so I'll just leave this thread here as a shining example of how utterly unintelligent he is.

[Nirgon]

If I was pretending to know everything and someone who actually played during the era commented and disagreed with me. I might try and dismiss the whole thing too.

[Kringe]

Kringe is completely incapable of discussing anything, so I'll just leave this thread here as a shining example of how utterly unintelligent he is.


The reason they were given lures was because high resists routinely countered wizards in PvP.


Ill leave this for you...

..

[Bockscar]

What's with this ridiculous "I disagree with you, therefore you didn't play EQ in the old days!" pathetic excuse for an argument? That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I played from 99 (some months after the game launched) to 02 and then from late 03 to 04. So because you don't personally know me and/or I didn't play on your server, I... didn't play at all? Can anybody in this entire community participate in a discussion without vomiting retardation like a complete imbecile? Unholy fucker of mothers, there's no hope for these people if they ever have to rely on intellect for anything in their lives.

[Cwall]

bookscar you look dumb stop posting imo

[Bockscar]

Hah, it's like high school all over again.

[Nirgon]

No its like you don't know what you are talking about all over again

[Kringe]

What's with this ridiculous "I disagree with you, therefore you didn't play EQ in the old days!" pathetic excuse for an argument? That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I played from 99 (some months after the game launched) to 02 and then from late 03 to 04. So because you don't personally know me and/or I didn't play on your server, I... didn't play at all? Can anybody in this entire community participate in a discussion without vomiting retardation like a complete imbecile? Unholy fucker of mothers, there's no hope for these people if they ever have to rely on intellect for anything in their lives.

Because you change your mind in every other fucking thread you participate in, is why people dont listen to anything you say...

E.G.

anyway you don't need an effective 100 in a resist in order to resist spells pretty regularly. 50 or 60 will make you resist a plain spell easily a fifth of the time. Considering a warrior can get 170 unbuffed MR pre-Kunark, you're the one who's full of shit when you claim that these spells were virtually unresistable at the time.

Please Reread what you wrote about 1-2 pages back, then read your own quote here... Then take a huge deep breath..... Now reply with a straight face how utterly unintelligent you are...

You sir, clearly NEVER played Classic to any extent...

Your arguements are null and void..

Again we get it, you want to playa pure melee/hybrid.... and make casters null and void when you achieve "your" 50-60 in resists, so you can "easily" resist spells 1/5 of the time. While all along focusing on getting over that 100 mark so you can strut around as a walking juggernaut... We get it...

Coincidently this is nothing towards favortism to casters, its quite the opposite as I will not be maining a caster when Red99 comes out. (will be using one to farm thats for sure!)

[tbox]

I am not sure what all the bitcheness is about in this discussion. Kringe thanks for your point of view. Your reasoning looks pretty solid and logical. I didnt play classic EQ pvp. To all the haters, one suggestion if your going to attack someones post it's best you actually have counter point and not just some waaah about whether the person is well known or not.

Its interesting how some people are so terribly concerned about their character sucking at the end game. As you said Kringe the majority of the server is not going to be end game geared for at least 4 months provided nothing gets changed concerning xp rate. I rather play a class that is better sooner then one that shines at the very very end because quit frankly we dont know whats going to happen in 4 months in terms of population. Even then if your so concerned about being resisted I would suggest that person plan on becoming friends with a class or classes that can debuff that resist for them.

[God-King Abacab]

Lets see..

Kringe
Orc
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 41

God-King Abacab
Kobold
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 168

Bockscar
Sarnak
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 361
Nothing to see here move along..

I have well over 3k posts if you count my banned accounts, however maybe 5% of them actually pertain the everquest the remaining 95% is basically comprised of internet meme, hate threads, and generalized bitching.

My complaint is 99% of your forum posts pertain to the video game like a nerd.

[Nirgon]

The complaints are in response to decisions for the server based off the input of people who don't know what they're talking about. Or even worse, the ignorant majority listening to said people and cannonizing it as fact.

[SoulLeech]

It's pretty pointless to discuss something with someone who doesn't read the arguments and just makes up imaginary statements that he can argue against and "be right."

You've got some hardcore projection going here as you're thoroughly guilty of essentially everything you're complaining about. In fact, you actually initiated it.

You started off by failing miserably at an appeal to authority, proceeded to make a series of completely unqualified statements and nonsensical logical leaps before finally resorting hair-splitting semantics to revise all the silly things you said before turning into a blubbering, angry mess at the end there.

[Nirgon]

Man, posting about eq pvp in the pvp forum. What a dick head. You're right.

[Darwoth]

pre kunark i ran around with 100ish fire and 120ish cold resist and while nukes did less damage it was not some huge amount, might shave on average 60 - 80 damage off of a 400 damage spell. 150+ was when resists started to be real noticeable and even then you would take near full a lot and when a partial kicked in you would still usually take 60 - 70 percent of the damage you would have otherwise taken, the gap between 100 and 150 was noticeable but not huge.

most nukes with a secondary component such as a debuff or stun resisted much more, my wind series was essentially worthless as soon as people started getting resist gear/buffs

[Sarkov]

My recollection is in line with Darwoth's... even @ 170 CR I seriously doubt you were sitting there taking Ice Comets to the face until a wizard was oom with nary a care in the world. In fairness I don't recall having ever had 170 CR back then, but how many did?

[Galacticus]

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/kratos-vs-jesus-and-god-1657.jpg

[mimixownzall]

If you believe that 170 CR made little difference and that resist rates for nukes aren't decent until 200+, it's your memory that should be questioned.

Actually, your memory is what I question. That's exactly how I remember it. I played on a pvp server for 3 years on Live. The difference between MR and the other resists was huge. As a mage I had some really good resists. With Elemental armor and resist gear along with circle of winter and summer my resists were pretty solid. I still cringed when I saw a caster (other than mage, you can outrun their big spells pretty easily). Wizards had lures which sucked for the recipient (resists were useless against them), but even druids and the faster, smaller mage fire spells would land.

[tmoneynegro]

wizard. but you will have to throw some stuns in there. and keep yonder up

8 second stuns do not land in EQ classic era PvP against any non-crapped geared players. Stop trying to gay up the server with completely non-classic TZVZ mechanics.


I distinctively remember have 150-160 cold in classic and getting blasted for near full dmg alot in classic

During Velious (same resist system), with 120ish in a resist, I would fully resist a damage spell at least 1/3rd of the time. With 150-160 in a resist, I'm pretty confident you would fully resist at least 1/2 of them and that's lowballing it.

I remember having really low disease resist, something like 45-65 and even having lots of those bounce but I think PR/DR resists were extremely different from the others.

[Crenshinabon]

I was a 50 sk on RZ but never raided much. I had a frog crown etc prob a cold resist near 100 and could even buff my cold to over 100+ as a SK.

I also remember fearing the shit out of ice comet even with these resist. If I got lucky I would resist maybe 1/2 the damage and would take around 500. Sometimes I would take like 800 still. If I got hit by one of these it was always a holy fuck where is he?! moment. Granted I also remember being able to interupt wizards pretty easy if I was hitting them and fk them up if they didnt jump me.

[Lovely]

I was a 50 sk on RZ but never raided much. I had a frog crown etc prob a cold resist near 100 and could even buff my cold to over 100+ as a SK.

I also remember fearing the shit out of ice comet even with these resist. If I got lucky I would resist maybe 1/2 the damage and would take around 500. Sometimes I would take like 800 still. If I got hit by one of these it was always a holy fuck where is he?! moment. Granted I also remember being able to interupt wizards pretty easy if I was hitting them and fk them up if they didnt jump me.

I'm not sure how spell DMG worked on Rallos ZEK, but in this beta Ice Comet can never hit for 800 even if they person has -10000000 resist and is level 1. Just saying

[Kringe]

756 Dmg to be exact... And on Classic Cresh could be right, for quite some time Ice Comet landed for 1144dmg before they nerfed the spell dmg to 66%..


Tmoneynegro... Im calling Bshit as usual... I was the top geared warrior during Velious, having insane resists with lohen at my side all the time, Kaaq (as seen in the screenshot Darw's thread, could still land Sunstrike "rarely for 1610" but for 800-1000 alot during velious, but it just wasnt as efficient to cast as Lure of Ice (you were guaranteed around 850dmg), and thats with Fire/Cold being almost 300, more if lohen was twisting.

[Sorath]

756.999999999 damages to be exact.

[Bockscar]

Ahem... so under 200, fr/cr pretty much doesn't do anything, and 300 is the point where you start averaging 40-50% reduced damage? That has got to be the most far-fetched shit ever to be claimed on this forum. It's so absurdly inaccurate that I'm having trouble believing Kringe is serious. And he blames me for trying to lie about a class type so the devs would make it overpowered? According to those numbers, it's completely pointless to wear any fr/cr until you're fully NToV-geared and can actually get those ridiculous values. So what do you estimate 150 fr is worth against a standard nuke, Kringe? 10% average reduction and 2% chance to fully resist?

[jilena]

I think they are saying 150+ on straight damage spells you were averaging a 25-40% reduction in damage vs any sort of straight up resist. With there already being the "pvp damage reduction" (which wasn't "classic") in place I don't think that sounds that ridiculous.

[Nirgon]

1120 at 50 for IC.

[Kringe]

Ahem... so under 200, fr/cr pretty much doesn't do anything, and 300 is the point where you start averaging 40-50% reduced damage? That has got to be the most far-fetched shit ever to be claimed on this forum. It's so absurdly inaccurate that I'm having trouble believing Kringe is serious. And he blames me for trying to lie about a class type so the devs would make it overpowered? According to those numbers, it's completely pointless to wear any fr/cr until you're fully NToV-geared and can actually get those ridiculous values. So what do you estimate 150 fr is worth against a standard nuke, Kringe? 10% average reduction and 2% chance to fully resist?

I'm really done arguing with you tbh.... About 8-10 people have proven and told you to please quit posting... Your memories are so far and jaded and your experience in Classic is next to none.

Jilena has it pretty much spot on, in what we are trying to accomplish achieve.

Darwoth even posted a Screenshot from around 2000...

the nuke numbers are dead on, from what i have deduced off of memory and the fact that at 200+ fr i would still take 50% of the damage from a scoraie is that

100 elemental resist shaved off about 15% - 20% damage on average

150 took off 25 - 30%

and 200 took off approximately 50%


this is why ice cometing wizards were still feared even after you had cold resistance, mages were not just blank firing pet controllers and druids could actually kill people.



Another Solid Quote from Lethdar:
Darwoth's numbers are pretty much correct, here's some most data regarding resists from player posts from before the resist changing patch (which made anything you can test on alkabor inapplicable here btw).

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showpost.php?p=93848&postcount=55

Although, Ghitming, I think you were implying that any class can kill any class? Unless there is something really uber for me to charm (and it doesn't kill me first) there's not a chance in hell my chanter could kill any melee besides a monk. I am pretty sure a cleric can't kill anyone 50+ either *maybe* a caster if their melee skills are good. For some reason if anyone has over 70 magic resist, magic based spells are completly useless against them but fire/ cold/ disease/ poison ones seems to have a good chance of doing max damage even at 150+ resist.
post from someone after the resist changing patch went in (sept, 20002)
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showpost.php?p=96211&postcount=18

in the past ever had 150resists and still get hit by scoriae icecomet and the rest, while u could sit at roughly 75-80mr and be immune to just about every friggin magic attack?

its been that way so long it blows peoples minds when they stick, fact is magic attacks like root snare stun mez slow blind and stuff will screw a person over (because they have a duration) while everyone is used to getting straight nuked

magic attacks are the most debilitating and i'd say the most powerful pvp spells short of pure dmg (see lures and and unresistable stuff and dont forget powerful uber melee skillz )
phantasmist
rallos zek

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showpost.php?p=96224&postcount=31
PvP should work with everyone moving as fast as they can. My job, as a druid, is to shake the melee long enough to channel my spell. His job is to stay on me, wailing away.
NEITHER of us should be able to be snared. The snared, the rooted, they are dead. This just isnt right, snare should never, ever land on 100+ mr.



You should really try doing some research.
But im guessing Lethdar, Darwoth... Hell everyone at Safehouse in those posts (from posts during that era) are all wrong eh Bockscar?

[Vile]

#1 spell is warrior taunt in pvp

[Dfn]

I'm really done arguing with you tbh.... About 8-10 people have proven and told you to please quit posting... Your memories are so far and jaded and your experience in Classic is next to none.

Jilena has it pretty much spot on, in what we are trying to accomplish achieve.

Darwoth even posted a Screenshot from around 2000...

Another Solid Quote from Lethdar:


You should really try doing some research.
But im guessing Lethdar, Darwoth... Hell everyone at Safehouse in those posts (from posts during that era) are all wrong eh Bockscar?

You should repost that in a fresh thread so the devs see.

[MakeYouMad]

Tmoneynegro... Im calling Bshit as usual... I was the top geared warrior during Velious

How come I didn't see you at Test of Tactics PvP tournament finals where I was also playing a warrior in Velious? lol



Kaaq (as seen in the screenshot Darw's thread, could still land Sunstrike "rarely for 1610" but for 800-1000 alot during velious

And here's a guy in the year 2000 saying there was a 50% resist rate on ice comet with 120CR.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=17688&postcount=5

Full resist rate was obviously much higher than 1 in 30 casts. It was at least 25-30% with 120CR from my recollection. When I PvP'd against druids on my monk, they didn't even bother casting nukes on me, just spammed dots over and over. I remember Darwoth nuked me for like 60-70% of possible damage one day and I looked at my screen surprised that it actually landed. Darwoth was the only druid that even attempted to use mana nuking me. That guy Amreet only cast dots every time. Same with Dharma on SZ.

When I got nuked with 120ish resists, about 1/4th were full resist, 1/4th 25% damage, 1/4th 50% damage, and 1/4th 75% damage.

Next is a post from Luclin era (after resists were changed for spells to land easier) where a guy says sunstrike hit him for 1100 out of possible 1600 damage with 120resist.

http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6290-Wizard-PvP-in-closed-spaces&p=131439&viewfull=1#post131439

[Kringe]

How come I didn't see you at Test of Tactics PvP tournament finals where I was also playing a warrior in Velious? lol

Um ToT was held before Velious In Kunark where my pal fiegi represted and RZ won.... (Warrior Botb was in Kunark where I hadnt really switched to the warrior class yet)

And the next big ToT was the 18vs 18 where I was in it, and we defeated 3 teams then lost to TZ (I think cause one of our bards didnt show up) and not having 3 bards in that was gg... Was still a blast tho..


And here's a guy in the year 2000 saying there was a 50% resist rate on ice comet with 120CR.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showpost.php?p=17688&postcount=5

Full resist rate was obviously much higher than 1 in 30 casts. It was at least 25-30% with 120CR from my recollection. When I PvP'd against druids on my monk, they didn't even bother casting nukes on me, just spammed dots over and over. I remember Darwoth nuked me for like 60-70% of possible damage one day and I looked at my screen surprised that it actually landed. Darwoth was the only druid that even attempted to use mana nuking me. That guy Amreet only cast dots every time. Same with Dharma on SZ.

When I got nuked with 120ish resists, about 1/4th were full resist, 1/4th 25% damage, 1/4th 50% damage, and 1/4th 75% damage.

Next is a post from Luclin era (after resists were changed for spells to land easier) where a guy says sunstrike hit him for 1100 out of possible 1600 damage with 120resist.

http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6290-Wizard-PvP-in-closed-spaces&p=131439&viewfull=1#post131439

That guys is already posting from the Kunark Era (hence the talk about splurt) resisted had a few minor tweaks (nothing major) when it was released.

Who was your monk on RZ?

Anywho,
Resists can be argued till our face turns blue, but I pretty much think we are ALL in agreeance that the Pillage/Nullify line definitely shouldnt be resisted by players.

[fiegi]

I'm an everquest god, true story

[MakeYouMad]

Anywho
Resists can be argued till our face turns blue.

I found an actual resist parse and posted it:

"Anyway, his resist parse claims an average of 347 damage casting 793 damage Draught of Ice against himself with 167CR. If you get PvP damage reduction casting on yourself, that would be 347 out of 531 possible damage average, or 65%. If you don't get PvP damage reduction nuking yourself, that would be 347/793, or an average of 44% per nuke. No data on full resist rates. He uses the phrase "the average hit" so I'm guessing he did not count full resists as 0 damage in that parse and left them out or his average would be much lower."

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51839

[Darwoth]

looks like his numbers fall in with exactly what i was saying, doubt he was getting many if any full resists, at 170+ cr and 200+ FR (think resists were effectively capped at 200 back then) i did not full on resist single effect spells much if at all more than i would have normally vs players.

[MakeYouMad]

looks like his numbers fall in with exactly what i was saying, doubt he was getting many if any full resists, at 170+ cr and 200+ FR (think resists were effectively capped at 200 back then) i did not full on resist single effect spells much if at all more than i would have normally vs players.

Did you get PvP damage reduction casting on yourself or not because I don't remember. It's kind of a big deal that you're absolutely certain of it for the parse to be useful.

[Darwoth]

dont remember, i am talking about back on live against other players though

[Atmas]

I actually played pretty much my whole career as a Wiz on TZ.

I recall 747 as being the max damage it did but I can't remember if that was what it always was with damage reduction. I just know it ended up that way (or was that until I stopped using it).

Since I didn't poll everyone I fought on their resists I won't throw in more missinformation, lord knows this thread has enough. I can say however that Necros didnt get life tap resisted in those days and that they continued to be awesome in Kunark.

My account of talking to other wizards because I didnt have it early on was that Sunstrike and Lure of Ice would basically do in any casters.

[Nirgon]

One piece of terrible information was Sunstrike was reduced to 1615 (even in pve) on RZ (not sure about other pvp servers).

Anyways, more about classic less about Kunark for now.

[Envious]

Thought all stats were capped at 255? Or was that later?

Kringe, TZ took you ToT lunch money.

[Glam]

Wont help if server be as TZ/VZ just alot of cheaters that will track and find you in 10 sec and use MQ.

I have seen alot of them here and they will be same morron again but this time they will ruin project 99 like they did with TZ...........

they will use track/speedhack/MR hack and everything you can use to cheat down the server just to ruin it:p

[taakyn]

Wont help if server be as TZ/VZ just alot of cheaters that will track and find you in 10 sec and use MQ.

I have seen alot of them here and they will be same morron again but this time they will ruin project 99 like they did with TZ...........

they will use track/speedhack/MR hack and everything you can use to cheat down the server just to ruin it:p

Obviously this guy got shit on in vztz.

[Andis]

you surprised? lol vztz crew > all

[Nirgon]

Yeah but I think Rogean and co may be more successful in catching and banning cheaters. Not to mention with the slower xp, even if you do restart you're still fucked in the long run if you manage to get back on after losing a fully lvl 50 on a pvp server where you can't box to farm whatever you want.