Should not be a LoS check on detrimental spells in PVP against PC's

[mimixownzall]

I knew I remembered this in classic so I did some digging and found this post on the eqclerics forums from June of 2001. In the post Mirixia Elamshinae posts:

A PvP problem is that offensive spells require no line of sight against players. The argument for this has always been that helpful spells (that can be cast on players) doesn't require line of sight.

I suspect this may be a part in nerfing the line of sight abuse for PvP offensive spells, and that Verant considers adding line of sight restrictions for beneficial spells a reasonable tradeoff.

I hope they do it, if it implies that offensive spells will require LoS on the PvP servers.

Source: http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-3504.html

[Darwoth]

yep, i mentioned this and was called a liar.

halped even things out when fighting melees in an enclosed space, as it is now it is impossible to get a spell off on anyone that doesnt allow you to do so.

[Lazortag]

Does it specify anywhere when LOS was checked (at the beginning of casting, or at the end of casting)?

[jilena]

I think this would be something terrible to implement. If you want to make a few things non-classic I would say this should be at the top of the list lol. Of course I plan on playing a character with spells so if they do put it in it only helps me.

Adding this to list for mechanics.

[mimixownzall]

Does it specify anywhere when LOS was checked (at the beginning of casting, or at the end of casting)?

There was no check at all just like casting beneficial spells. This helped a lot in dungeons for casters.

[mimixownzall]

I think this would be something terrible to implement. If you want to make a few things non-classic I would say this should be at the top of the list lol. Of course I plan on playing a character with spells so if they do put it in it only helps me.

Adding this to list for mechanics.

Trust me, this helps a lot. Casters are pretty lol useless in dungeons as is. This helps a lot. I also remember that you could /target NPC's but you couldn't /target PC's through the walls to help combat some extreme gayness.

[jilena]

Trust me, this helps a lot. Casters are pretty lol useless in dungeons as is. This helps a lot. I also remember that you could /target NPC's but you couldn't /target PC's through the walls to help combat some extreme gayness.

Well I have no issue with starting the cast requiring LoS but once it starts it hits even if LoS is broken. The way NPCs work on P1999 right now. This prevents melee from ducking out of harms way for long cast spells in a dungeon with lots of nooks and crannies, but doesn't allow players to cheese dick targetting someone, invising around 3 corners and 12 mobs and chain nuking the person through the wall. *shrug*

[mimixownzall]

Well I have no issue with starting the cast requiring LoS but once it starts it hits even if LoS is broken. The way NPCs work on P1999 right now. This prevents melee from ducking out of harms way for long cast spells in a dungeon with lots of nooks and crannies, but doesn't allow players to cheese dick targetting someone, invising around 3 corners and 12 mobs and chain nuking the person through the wall. *shrug*

Honestly this type of stuff wasn't an issue on SZ. You knew who your enemies were and were always /who in zone. If another faction entered you kept your guard up or went looking for them.

I could see where it would be a lot bigger problem on a FFA server where people can be selectively homosexual.

[Nirgon]

I do remember spamming nukes on people through walls in classic :P. Blowing people up in the Neriak bank etc.

[Galacticus]

Yea, it made casters really powerful, they could run into a room, target you, run out around the corner and start casting a spell without you even knowing where they were. It was quite imbalanced and thats why they changed it, really exploitable.

[mimixownzall]

Yea, it made casters really powerful, they could run into a room, target you, run out around the corner and start casting a spell without you even knowing where they were. It was quite imbalanced and thats why they changed it, really exploitable.

EQ, as a whole, was imbalanced. That is what made it so awesome. If you want 'balance' then go play WoW where every class has some sort of heal, stun, movement impairing effect, fear, etc.

[tmoneynegro]

This server is going all the way to velious. Do you expect them to change core game dynamics like line of sight for every expansion? It should be set to whatever the most reasonable one is from the get-go (which isn't 0 LOS).

[Harrison]

Actually, they are going to change things(when possible and feasible) to reflect when it was taken away, added, etc. in its timeline. Glaring exploits, bugs, imbalances etc. are excluded.

This is why it's important to nail things down accurately and not listen to retards saying shit like, "pacify never aggros" without proof. (he later edited his post when he was wrong, AGAIN)

Line of sight requirements have changed at LEAST once since release up to later expansions. Figuring out when is the important part.

[Palemoon]

You had griefers go up five flights of stairs in HHK and nuke the group down in the basement goblins. Or Kirban the wiz do the same thing, nukeing groups on the very top ramps in Velks Lab from the zone in.

It was retarded, but thats what it was.

This changed in Luclin. They added a LoS check either to the beginning of the casting or the end of the casting. I want to say ending, because I remember dancing around corners in Velks Lab to break LoS on Kirban's nukes.

[tmoneynegro]

You had griefers go up five flights of stairs in HHK and nuke the group down in the basement goblins. Or Kirban the wiz do the same thing, nukeing groups on the very top ramps in Velks Lab from the zone in.

It was retarded, but thats what it was.

This changed in Luclin. They added a LoS check either to the beginning of the casting or the end of the casting. I want to say ending, because I remember dancing around corners in Velks Lab to break LoS on Kirban's nukes.

When Velious ended on SZ, it had 2 LoS checks, but it also had 0 and 1 LoS check too at different points during the Velious expansion. They changed it several times.

In the patch notes (I went over them all extensively), there is never even a mention of having 0 LoS checks even though it was in game like that for a while. I'm pretty sure having 0 LoS was entirely a mistake for PvP in the first place.

[mimixownzall]

When Velious ended on SZ, it had 2 LoS checks, but it also had 0 and 1 LoS check too at different points during the Velious expansion. They changed it several times.

In the patch notes (I went over them all extensively), there is never even a mention of having 0 LoS checks even though it was in game like that for a while. I'm pretty sure having 0 LoS was entirely a mistake for PvP in the first place.

The post I listed as my source has it still active up until 6 months into Velious release.

[mimixownzall]

I don't mind if they did LoS at the beginning of the cast. Should never be 2 LoS checks with all the ways you can lose LoS with hills etc.

[jilena]

Yeah LoS is gay at the end. Most "fair" would be LoS at beginning, range check w/ bonus at end.

So if you have LoS and can start the cast, if it finishes and they are within range + a little space for fuck ups it lands (to be checked against resists).

Two checks would be retarded and unfair.

[Crenshinabon]

You had griefers go up five flights of stairs in HHK and nuke the group down in the basement goblins. Or Kirban the wiz do the same thing, nukeing groups on the very top ramps in Velks Lab from the zone in.


I am very guilty of this. As an enchanter I would tash/blind/nuke a floor or two above someone. They had zero chance most the time. I snagged 2 FBSS like this and a few pieces of mithril.
It was way broken mechanic and wouldn't mind if it was not in the game. I know I griefed a few people off RZ like this. When they would rage at me super hard afterwards. Was worth some LoLs but did not help the community. EQ at the time did not need help though. It was boomin. Nobles and bard room always camped. Multiple goblin groups. People killin prisoners. People killing guards. Ahhh, the days.