Enchanter nuke resist rates in classic, refresh my memory.

[Crenshinabon]

So classic I played a SK and a bard.
I started playing an enchanter in velious and remember I loved enchanter nukes. Granted it was RZ so most the time people had pretty crappy resist due to being undergeared but I thought enchanter nukes could be partially resisted but usually at least landed the small stun portion with a little damage.

Was this changed to be like this later? Or was enchanter nukes in classic all or nothing? If the nukes are all or nothing in classic I prob would not roll an enchanter, lol....

[Lasher]

Anecdotal but if my memory is correct ench nukes were all or nothing for a good amount of time. Eventually partial resists were added but even then in my experience as ench an ench on tz ench nukes sucked. Only nuke that was worth memming was chaotic feedback. For what ever reason it seemed that spell had lesser resist rate than other ench nukes. I might be pulling this out of my ass but i think at some point verant patched it so newbie nukes were harder to resist so that newb casters werent getting pwned by their newb spells getting resisted and i think that crossed over into pvp so it made the chaotic feedback spell viable at high lvls.

[Bockscar]

For as long as I can remember, enchanter nukes could not be partially resisted. This was due to the fact that the nukes had a stun component, and that prevents the damage from being partially resisted. It's the same thing with roots and dots that do initial damage, as well as procs like Ykesha that are damage and stun.

I feel like there was a mechanic where spells with dual effects were easier to resist, including anything from poison dots and druid roots to chanter nukes. I'm not really sure, though, and it seems kinda wrong if these spells were just subjected to two resist rolls where one success would cause a full resist. That would make any dual effect spell largely worthless, and that certainly wasn't the case. Whatever the case, you couldn't resist either part of the spell and it would either land for full damage and stun/root/whatever or it would be completely resisted.

There might have been something that made these spells slightly easier to resist, or maybe it was just because most of them are magic-based and thus check against the resist that everyone stacks as much as they can. All these spells were perfectly usable in PvE and didn't really feel like they had half the chance of landing compared to straight nukes and dots or roots without a damage component (although I think there was a while where the damage component of druid/ranger roots could break the root instantly from checking for nuke root breakage).

[Crenshinabon]

Well, all I know for a fact is that in Vel times I was ballin on my enchanter with tash and nukes hitting for at least partial damage usually. I would mem the lower level ones even just to interrupt people.

Looks like general consensus is that there are no partial resist in classic. Bummer.

[Pudge]

Anecdotal but if my memory is correct ench nukes were all or nothing for a good amount of time. Eventually partial resists were added but even then in my experience as ench an ench on tz ench nukes sucked. Only nuke that was worth memming was chaotic feedback. For what ever reason it seemed that spell had lesser resist rate than other ench nukes. I might be pulling this out of my ass but i think at some point verant patched it so newbie nukes were harder to resist so that newb casters werent getting pwned by their newb spells getting resisted and i think that crossed over into pvp so it made the chaotic feedback spell viable at high lvls.

played double enchanters on sullon with my brother, yea chaotic feedback for interrupts was good

[Bockscar]

Quote from Filash's PvP writeup (link (http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2872), Velious era) - not really a 100% credible source, but I'd trust it more than pretty much anything short of information straight from Verant's EQ developers.

Enchanters get a fast casting unresistable DD at level 8, which will stun you for a brief moment.

I've seen another source say the same about one of the low-level cleric nukes (I think the level 5 Furor) which was good for interrupting due to having a knockback, and supposedly also unresistable.

I think the Chaotic Feedback one is true. Don't really know about the cleric one, I never played that class.

[Yinikren]

Spells with dual effects were easier to resist - there was a check on both resists, therefor you basically had twice the chance for it not to land.

Grasping Roots - Root + damage. If the damage resisted, the spell wouldn't land. Same with the root effect.

Root - Only one effect.

[Bockscar]

It's not that black and white. If it was, any spell with a double check would be completely useless in both PvP and PvE. Druid roots and shaman dots don't get resisted twice as often as wizard roots and necro dots. Anyone who has played these classes knows this. If anything, there might be some modified check so that spells with dual effects are slightly harder to resist - maybe it checks the damage portion for a full resist only, and if it rolls a partial resist, the whole thing resists. Since nukes are pretty hard to fully resist, that would mean the spell would be harder to land, but not twice as hard. Even so, that sounds questionable to me. I have a feeling enchanter nukes felt like they got resisted a lot simply because it's the only class that regularly uses magic-based nukes in PvP (clerics don't really nuke much). Shaman dots land just fine, for instance.

[tbox]

If your concerned about being able to do damage as an enchanter in pvp I would avoid playing the class. Its going to be extremely shitty to dps people as an enchanter even if you can tash the target because everyone stacks MR first. Everyone is going to have MR buff up if they can get it and bards are going to be playing the MR buff song most likely. I think enchanters add a lot to a pvp group but I would not count on their nukes for dps. Your going to see people much better geared in terms of knowing what to wear and what not to wear that may not have been the case way back in the day. I think its fairly common that as a game ages like this one the majority of players will make better gear choices then 1999-2001 etc.

[Bockscar]

I'm not playing an enchanter, I just like to see things working as intended.

[tbox]

I was referring to the original poster sorry I was too lazy to use quotes.

[dusk883]

you're blowing potential if you're nuking as a chanter...

[Dfn]

Enchanter nukes were harder to land because it had the stun component. If it changed later on, well, who the fuck cares. But Enchanter nukes were hard to land in classic for that reason.

Blowing potential if you're nuking as an enchanter? What the fuck are you supposed to do when solo PvP'ing... Melee someone to death?

[Pudge]

Spells with dual effects were easier to resist - there was a check on both resists, therefor you basically had twice the chance for it not to land.

Grasping Roots - Root + damage. If the damage resisted, the spell wouldn't land. Same with the root effect.

Root - Only one effect.


i think all the "double checks" for MR spells in pvp got turned to single. the damage was minimal compared to the chance to root. no one cared if druid root did 100 damage, it only mattered if you got rooted or not.

[Pudge]

then again, the random number generator was streaky.. so doubles didnt matter much anyway

[Maelzai]

I've played enc on several emus pvp and pve, and enc on live pvp since 1 week after launch. Never was enc the best(easiest) solo class but a well played enc can solo. It is costly (peridots for rune) but enc can solo especially low lvls when str debuffs land and you can charm something and kill them while perma rooted and chain chaotic feedback/mesmerize for stuns or nuke them slowly/dot if it not an sk. As well as other tricks that are good solo. Higher teir pvp changes a bit, but low lvl with no gear are op.

As far as grp/mass pvp its rare i have a dmg spell up on my enc, we are for dispell mainly(only 4 slot in game, and we get 2 in kunark), tash, root, mez, blind, runes, chatotic feedback for interupts(pretty much same resist as other nukes but you dont lose mana if resisted essentially.)
Although the question that should really be asked i havent even seen addressed.(editted super enc secrets)

[Bockscar]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure a spell with a DD and secondary effect would just make its resist check against the secondary effect. This would make enchanter nukes easier to resist since it's easier to resist a stun than it is to fully resist a nuke. It wouldn't be relevant for druid roots and shaman dots because it checks for the root and dot component, and those are as easy to resist as any other similar spell without a resist modifier. There should be no saving throw against the DD component at all, hence why it can't roll for partial damage. So:

Enchanter nukes: saving throw vs. stun, thus easier to resist than other nukes where there's a roll for partial damage. Enchanter nukes (and certain wizard/druid nukes, as well as the cleric stuns that do damage) can't do partial damage and will always do full or no damage.

Poison/disease dots: saving throw vs. dot, thus the same chance to resist as any other dot except the ones with resist modifiers.

Druid/ranger roots: saving throw vs. root, thus the same chance to resist as any other root. I believe there was a while where the DD part could break the root instantly, however. This was then fixed by making the DD apply before the root effect. Not sure when this happened.

That's how I remember it, and it's what makes the most sense. It's absurd to assume that these spells were twice as easy to resist.

[jilena]

I agree that wizzie stun nukes (tishan's clash), druid stun nukes (whirling wind), and cleric stun with dmg (force) also were harder to land and always did max dmg or full resist.