Focus Beta - Lack of direction/Feedback from devs/communication

[Galacticus]

Beta out for a couple weeks, server pop dwindling. I really want this server to do well and I want to help genuinely. A lot of people here dont and just come here for troll lols.

We should solve one of the biggest problems going on with this beta. There is a serious lack of direction and/or the communication of this direction to the community participating in the beta.

Its not wise to open an amusement park and tell the testers ok go test what you like and come back and tell me about it. You cant expect to test the brakes on a rollercoaster when everyone just wants to go fast or they are in the haunted mansion or the gift shop.

That wont get any sort of accurate results and it wont help you fix major problems.

Shit needs to be prioritized and looked at systematically. The devs need to understand what they want from the server(resists,melee hitbox,dynamic pvp level name system), whats important, and then tell people to test that thing out when they are ready to deal with and analyze the results.

Everyone is using a different method to test, there are no standards, so the info you get is completely biased and skewed. (how can i tell you if resists are working if I have no idea how the resist system works or what my oponent's resists are currently at)

By Focusing the beta, you get the results from what you as the development team are working on currently and can fix things one by one, instead of jumping from post to post trying to fix this or that here and there. It will make you devs frustrated, cluttered and overwhelmed trying to fix everything at once.

Also, the community needs to be informed of shit going on behind the scenes to keep people interested and willing to test something they understand, to make them feel like there is some sort of progress from the 7+ pages posted on the bug forums. I beta tested eq1 and eq2, anarchy online, daoc, Asherons call 1 and 2, swg, wow and each of its expansions, warhammer, matrix online, planetside and a shit load of other mmos.

They all tell the beta testers what they are currently trying to fix, how the beta testers can help to test that, what they can do if they cant test that, and how whatever they fixed last was fixed and how everyone should make sure it was fixed.

You cant have a productive beta without this feedback dynamic and communication.

Video game companies all do it the same way. They have alpha where they test core and root game dynamics and systems, then beta after they make sure the alpha is rock solid and so on. Its a process that cuts work down for them and organizes what is important and communicates it to the beta populace to do what their limited time wont allow.

You devs are leaders in this community and most people look up to you for information. You are what helps hold the community together, their faith in your ability to run a legit clean stable server. You reinforce this image by giving feedback to the community so they know you are there and care about this project even more then they do.

We are all human, we all got family and/or work obligations so we understand if you guys are busy with work or have family things to do or just dont feel like doing shit on the server tonight. We understand.

It just sucks spending two weeks testing things and not hearing anything addressed to the beta testing community while watching the server population drop and not knowing what is going on, no one wants to be in the dark and there really isnt a reason that we should be kept in the dark.

We all appreciate the work you do for us to have this server.

Help us help you.

[ChubbyBubbles]

I think they said somewhere a while back that they wanted us to test some specific areas of pvp...being resists, dynamic lvl range , etc. Since the server is a pvp server I think they probably figured we would jump on and test what they were looking for us to test.
By what I have seen in the pvp bugs section people have been submitting feedback on what they wanted looked at. People also talk about bugs and misc on the irc and in game. Shrug.

[Ravenlof]

2nd

also melee is broken IMO

[Softcore PK]

Things seem to be going pretty well imo. We've made the devs aware of the big issues (resists, dispells, melee damage/range, dynamic pvp range) and now I think we're waiting for them to look into and fix these few things before the server releases. Anything more than this, that was a serious issue, would probably have been discovered by now. They'll continue fine-tuning things once we're live.

[Morninx]

An update thread of where Beta stands and where it still need to go from the Devs would help encourage beta testing tho.

[valithteezee]

Well put Galacticus. I know these guys owe us nothing and I thank them for even considering a PVP Server, but I can't help agree that having a more organized beta would speed this whole process up.

[Yukahwa]

Very well said.

[tmoneynegro]

Only need to do 3 things to release this server:

1) scrap dynamic PvP level system and make all high end zones such as guk, karnors, etc flagged as "arena", +/- 8 would work in other zones. That way we have no issues with spies or other weird things when raiding.

2) fix melee code: jousting, hit box range, etc

3) Implement correct resists for crowd control that I already posted then implement something decent for damage spells.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=419961&postcount=5

[hotstud]

I don't know why this server claims to be classic PvP but all this bullshit around making high end zones FFA, punishing zone plugging, and dynamic level ranges is being added. MAKE THE FUCKING SERVER CLASSIC!

All focus should be number 2 and 3 above, all this bullshit around new mechanics shouldn't even be on the server.

[Mardur]

Beta's going well. There's apparently a patch lined up ready to be rolled out soon, so of course the server population is stagnant. We pretty much know what's broken and when developers get around to implementing a patch we can continue testing things and reporting feedback as usual.

Whining on the forums isn't going to get us anywhere, so just be patient. Continue posting bugs and concerns in a civil manner. For example, this is not constructive and is just a complete waste:

also melee is broken IMO

[tmoneynegro]

I don't know why this server claims to be classic PvP but all this bullshit around making high end zones FFA, punishing zone plugging, and dynamic level ranges is being added. MAKE THE FUCKING SERVER CLASSIC!

All focus should be number 2 and 3 above, all this bullshit around new mechanics shouldn't even be on the server.

I agree about dynamic level range. Even *if* it did work, it leaves too much a fog on the battlefield of who you can and can't attack. One minute some random noob will run by you and be invulnerable, next minute he will be dotting you while you're xping with 25% hp left.

We do need high end zones flagged as "arena" in order to prevent people from coming there with level 1 spies, invulnerable trainers, and other things like that if the server is going to have a +/- 8 level limit.

[lethdar]

Hit box has been fine since that patch that had crashing issues. No problem hitting people strafing / trying to evade / trying to dodge and we've tested the hitbox range already to show it already is larger than on live by default.

People who think the hitbox is messed up need to learn how to joust again.

[Mardur]

I agree about dynamic level range. Even *if* it did work, it leaves too much a fog on the battlefield of who you can and can't attack. One minute some random noob will run by you and be invulnerable, next minute he will be dotting you while you're xping with 25% hp left.

This is just an unintentional quirk in the system and I'm sure Rogean is working on it or will get to it when he gets a chance.

[Sniperfire]

Beta out for a couple weeks, server pop dwindling. I really want this server to do well and I want to help genuinely. A lot of people here dont and just come here for troll lols.

We should solve one of the biggest problems going on with this beta. There is a serious lack of direction and/or the communication of this direction to the community participating in the beta.

Its not wise to open an amusement park and tell the testers ok go test what you like and come back and tell me about it. You cant expect to test the brakes on a rollercoaster when everyone just wants to go fast or they are in the haunted mansion or the gift shop.

That wont get any sort of accurate results and it wont help you fix major problems.

Shit needs to be prioritized and looked at systematically. The devs need to understand what they want from the server(resists,melee hitbox,dynamic pvp level name system), whats important, and then tell people to test that thing out when they are ready to deal with and analyze the results.

Everyone is using a different method to test, there are no standards, so the info you get is completely biased and skewed. (how can i tell you if resists are working if I have no idea how the resist system works or what my oponent's resists are currently at)

By Focusing the beta, you get the results from what you as the development team are working on currently and can fix things one by one, instead of jumping from post to post trying to fix this or that here and there. It will make you devs frustrated, cluttered and overwhelmed trying to fix everything at once.

Also, the community needs to be informed of shit going on behind the scenes to keep people interested and willing to test something they understand, to make them feel like there is some sort of progress from the 7+ pages posted on the bug forums. I beta tested eq1 and eq2, anarchy online, daoc, Asherons call 1 and 2, swg, wow and each of its expansions, warhammer, matrix online, planetside and a shit load of other mmos.

They all tell the beta testers what they are currently trying to fix, how the beta testers can help to test that, what they can do if they cant test that, and how whatever they fixed last was fixed and how everyone should make sure it was fixed.

You cant have a productive beta without this feedback dynamic and communication.

Video game companies all do it the same way. They have alpha where they test core and root game dynamics and systems, then beta after they make sure the alpha is rock solid and so on. Its a process that cuts work down for them and organizes what is important and communicates it to the beta populace to do what their limited time wont allow.

You devs are leaders in this community and most people look up to you for information. You are what helps hold the community together, their faith in your ability to run a legit clean stable server. You reinforce this image by giving feedback to the community so they know you are there and care about this project even more then they do.

We are all human, we all got family and/or work obligations so we understand if you guys are busy with work or have family things to do or just dont feel like doing shit on the server tonight. We understand.

It just sucks spending two weeks testing things and not hearing anything addressed to the beta testing community while watching the server population drop and not knowing what is going on, no one wants to be in the dark and there really isnt a reason that we should be kept in the dark.

We all appreciate the work you do for us to have this server.

Help us help you.

beta is for devs to debug and look at things not tell us where there at on any said issue so we can have 25 pages of opinions about every little thing post the bugs and they will do what is needed as far as balance/classic i have faith in them, there on it

[Tombom]

beta is for devs to debug and look at things not tell us where there at on any said issue so we can have 25 pages of opinions about every little thing post the bugs and they will do what is needed as far as balance/classic i have faith in them, there on it

*they are, can be contracted to they're

[Jacko]

Aids can be contracted from your Mother.


Lol fucking hate grammar and shpelling NOTZEES

[Amuk]

lmao

[tbox]

I keep seeing references to kunark stuff. I thought this server was purely classic at least for a while?

[Bockscar]

Well, I've been saying it for a while: there won't be any serious, heavy-duting testing as long as people have to grind for their XP and camp mobs for their gear. A few people will try, but the amount of time that has to be spent just enabling characters to test - even with 10x XP - is simply a waste. A week of freeform beta gameplay was fine, two weeks has been questionable but oh well. If it's gonna continue, it's just a stupid waste of time.

I don't put much faith in the Oct 28th date. Yesterday in IRC, Rogean said he'd just now started to even look at the bug reports. If nothing has actually been done in the first two weeks, it's hard to expect the server to be ready in another two. Can't slight Rogean for being a busy man, it'll all happen according to his schedule, but I don't see any reason not to provide people with the tools needed to test the things that need to be tested. So far, the beta has yielded little more than useless killshot screenies and incorrect bug reports. Pretty much no tangible feedback for resists and such. Most people don't want to spend two weeks grinding and gearing up on a beta server, and the numbers reflect that.

All of the very minor feedback and the handful of non-retarded bug reports would have been provided anyway, it's not as if automated levels and gear would mean people wouldn't have found out about shit like the bugged dynamic range system or the fact that resists are screwed up. People would still want to PvP, and it would probably be a lot more fun and popular if everyone could just pick whatever class they want to try for the day and go fight some other goons of the same level and gear range. I expect that would get a lot more people on the beta server, a lot more PvP activity to cover everything imaginable, and a lot more feedback data. Right now it's just a bunch of magicians and shamans dicking around. I haven't seen any mention at all of like half the classes.

[gloinz]

Today, 09:39 PM
Rogean
I feed hamsters.



Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,101

This was already fixed

rogean is doing work beta has already accomplished testing lots of stuff and the big man is fixing lots of stuff
less ppl = less retarded bug posts
the champ says beta is working as intended, no need to change anything until its ready for launch

[Wonton]

I bet Rogean comes to read these forums once a week. He doesn't care about your feelings, Bockscar.

[Galacticus]

ready for launch

Yea, I am ready for lunch.

[Rogean]

You guys have no idea how much I'm trying to juggle with the preparation and release of R99.. My life is literally a clusterfuck right now.

Having said that I am trying really hard not to have to give up getting this server released, however I really need help from the community in the forum of moderation of the bug forums and helping us with information, feedback, and prioritizing things.

I haven't even barely had time to read the forums in the last 2 weeks.

Disclaimer: This post isn't meant to be a complaint of 'what I have to deal with', merely pointing out that it is not a lack of caring, it is simply a lack of time.

[Naikon]

we are still on for oct. 28th tho right

[Galacticus]

You guys have no idea how much I'm trying to juggle with the preparation and release of R99.. My life is literally a clusterfuck right now.

Having said that I am trying really hard not to have to give up getting this server released, however I really need help from the community in the forum of moderation of the bug forums and helping us with information, feedback, and prioritizing things.

I haven't even barely had time to read the forums in the last 2 weeks.

Disclaimer: This post isn't meant to be a complaint of 'what I have to deal with', merely pointing out that it is not a lack of caring, it is simply a lack of time.

Lets take some time and help with these things as much as possible to take some of the work off their shoulders.

[Harrison]

Well, I've been saying it for a while: there won't be any serious, heavy-duting testing as long as people have to grind for their XP and camp mobs for their gear. A few people will try, but the amount of time that has to be spent just enabling characters to test - even with 10x XP - is simply a waste. A week of freeform beta gameplay was fine, two weeks has been questionable but oh well. If it's gonna continue, it's just a stupid waste of time.

Whinepost about experience #19121235847

We get it. You "pvpers" aren't anywhere near as hardcore as you pretended to be on the forums for the months leading up to this beta.

PVP doesn't only exist in preselected levels with max gear for that level handed out. Shit happens inbetween and to ignore that dynamic of leveling while pvping, is not proper testing.

I've never once beta tested an mmo that auto leveled you. There's a reason for that.

Also:
This community is 9/10 shit.

Ask someone to help test some things? Nah, you get, "FUCK YOU ******DICK JEWTROLOLOL ROFL MEMES BLEWBIES LOL"

[Cwall]

This community is 9/10 shit.

well no wonder you fit right in then boyo

[mimixownzall]

Also:
This community is 9/10 shit.

Ask someone to help test some things? Nah, you get, "FUCK YOU ******DICK JEWTROLOLOL ROFL MEMES BLEWBIES LOL"

I have to agree with this. People come in OOC and ask simple, serious questions and get nothing but juvenile answers. A player came on and asked me a question of where he could find a spell. I answered all his questions and he thanked me for being the only person who didn't act like an elitist asshat.

Can everyone please act like they were born at least before live came out and save the attitudes for release?

[Zereh]

You guys have no idea how much I'm trying to juggle with the preparation and release of R99.. My life is literally a clusterfuck right now.

Having said that I am trying really hard not to have to give up getting this server released, however I really need help from the community in the forum of moderation of the bug forums and helping us with information, feedback, and prioritizing things.

I haven't even barely had time to read the forums in the last 2 weeks.

Disclaimer: This post isn't meant to be a complaint of 'what I have to deal with', merely pointing out that it is not a lack of caring, it is simply a lack of time.

Delegate! Good lord. No one expects you to do it all. There tons of talented folks around here who would be more than happy to help ... This goes for Blue99 too!

I've helped manage many a project. Sign me up.

[Bockscar]

Whinepost about experience #19121235847

We get it. You "pvpers" aren't anywhere near as hardcore as you pretended to be on the forums for the months leading up to this beta.

Had to click "view post" because you've been on ignore for a while.

It has nothing to do with XP. It's a matter of principle; the current beta model severely limits the amount of feedback and data that can be provided because people have to level and gear their characters themselves. It's not about being hardcore (you're the only one who ever brings this up) and it's not about winning the beta, it's about getting enough out of the testing phase, which we aren't with the way things are right now.

PVP doesn't only exist in preselected levels with max gear for that level handed out. Shit happens inbetween and to ignore that dynamic of leveling while pvping, is not proper testing.

The dynamic of leveling while PvPing does not need to be tested to any great extent. Nothing's broken regarding having to watch your back, having to sometimes PvP with a mob on you, having to /who every five seconds or moving zones every couple of hours when it gets too hot. The game mechanics don't factor into the act of leveling while PvPing. That's guaranteed to work by virtue of the core game being sufficiently classic and fully functional. Nobody is suggesting to bump everyone to level 50 with raid gear, we just need to conduct heavy-duty game mechanic tests and find bugs with all classes (not just the few that are easy to solo/duo up or are overpowered in classic PvP), hence suggestions such as:

> Disable any form of XP gain.

> Put an NPC in each city that bumps your level to x. Every few days, x goes up by 10.

> Put a vendor next to the leveling NPC with free gear that's common at whatever the current level bracket is.

> Make one of the zones non-PvP but /duel enabled and have an NPC that casts a +500 mana and HP regen buff on you when hailed. Buff fades if you leave that zone.

I've never once beta tested an mmo that auto leveled you. There's a reason for that.

I don't really care about your uncool story. The numbers here speak for themselves - hardly anyone is testing because they have to level and gear their characters, and if they want to test something else, they have to do it all over again. There's like 20-30 people on the test server most of the day. There's a reason for that.

Nobody has posted extensive resist data. Nobody has provided meaningful analysis of game mechanics. Nobody has made a concerted effort to test anything in-depth. This is because this beta has yet to provide them with the tools to do so, and because forcing people to level and gear up manually has instead encouraged the few who did so to play the game rather than test the game. How can anyone be expected to want to make the effort to test extensively if they can't even get access to the classes, levels and resists required to do so?

Also:
This community is 9/10 shit.

You're pretty much one of the worst shitstains around. You contribute nothing whatsoever, all you do is post your useless drivel in every single thread, grasping at every possible chance to insult people. You're the worst type of person any community can have because, unlike most of the other trolls, you actually mean it. You're a worthless, pitiful imbecile with a crippled self-esteem who can only feel better about himself by flinging shit at others. None of your posts have basis in anything remotely relevant and you add nothing to the effort of moving the beta along. You think pointing people out as whiners somehow makes you better. In reality you're a sad, insecure nobody whose only way of expressing himself is by meaningless hostility. Nobody likes you, nobody cares about you, and you're hindering the beta by discouraging any and every discussion that takes place. You're the troll who isn't trolling for fun, and that's a seriously sad thing.

[Zereh]

^^ Bravo.

[Wonton]

Someone please build Rogean a time machine

[mimixownzall]

There's like 20-30 people on the test server most of the day.

Yeah, because people have things like work and school to do during the DAY.

During peak times the pop is around 100. Did you know that during Kunark beta there were never more than 40 people beta testing at any time (unless p99 went down)? This was for testing an entire expansion's content! Beta is doing as good as you can expect. Testing has been done and people are waiting for the next patch to see how the changes went.

[Bockscar]

Everyone's two-boxing, so it's half of the number you see on the server list. It only peaks at 100 for a few of hours, the other 20 hours of the day it's more like 30-50 boxed characters. What's more telling is the complete absence of things like extensive resist data, and that's because there's far too few characters at any given level and with the kind of gear they'd have at that level if it was classic XP. It wouldn't have taken much, even something as little as a few NPCs in Kerra Isle or some other zone nobody goes to that you can hail to get a variety of custom resist buffs. One could give a +50 all resists, one could give +100 all resists, and one could give a huge hp/mana regen buff so people don't have waste large amounts of time meditating and healing back up while testing stuff. The current beta setup is really keeping people from doing much serious testing.

[gloinz]

imo if ya'll beta complainers spent half the time beta testing as you do typing these giant mega essay posts you could have single handedly tested the resist system you are concerned about with every class of every race.

pretty sure the dev's know what needs fixing at this point and just need time to get caught up.
and like i said, imo making beta ez and having it max pop like red 99 live is gonna be would just slow things down by flooding the bug forum with piles of mostly the same shit

[Harrison]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8063/raaaage1.jpg

Cry more.

You spend 10x as much time crying on the forums than you do actually testing, digging through the wayback machine for research, etc.

You, and obviously others, would rather whine about how the beta is run than actually doing anything constructive. This post is just another fucking vagina bleed.

Learn to beta. Stop fucking crying and get shit done rather than complain about how you have to *GASP* beta test. This beta is no different than any I've ever participated in for an MMO, other than it has more retards complaining on the forums about inconsequential shit. You never see "OMG leveling is too slow" on beta forums for other games. Yet, here you pussies are..."hardcore pvpers" :rolleyes:

imo if ya'll beta complainers spent half the time beta testing as you do typing these giant mega essay posts you could have single handedly tested the resist system you are concerned about with every class of every race.

pretty sure the dev's know what needs fixing at this point and just need time to get caught up.
and like i said, imo making beta ez and having it max pop like red 99 live is gonna be would just slow things down by flooding the bug forum with piles of mostly the same shit

Edit: Added Gloinz quote that I didn't see while responding.

[ScaryBadAssholes]

Nice grammar, Charlie Kelly!

[ScaryBadAssholes]

Its not wise to open an amusement park and tell the testers ok go test what you like and come back and tell me about it. You cant expect to test the brakes on a rollercoaster when everyone just wants to go fast or they are in the haunted mansion or the gift shop.



So you're testing the boats, unrest and EC tunnel?

[mimixownzall]

Everyone's two-boxing, so it's half of the number you see on the server list. It only peaks at 100 for a few of hours, the other 20 hours of the day it's more like 30-50 boxed characters. What's more telling is the complete absence of things like extensive resist data, and that's because there's far too few characters at any given level and with the kind of gear they'd have at that level if it was classic XP. It wouldn't have taken much, even something as little as a few NPCs in Kerra Isle or some other zone nobody goes to that you can hail to get a variety of custom resist buffs. One could give a +50 all resists, one could give +100 all resists, and one could give a huge hp/mana regen buff so people don't have waste large amounts of time meditating and healing back up while testing stuff. The current beta setup is really keeping people from doing much serious testing.

People were boxing on Kunark beta too, genius.

Boxing helps. Get two or three chars and start casting on each other. Make a shaman and buff up their resists and see how that effects them.

The resists are so fkin terrible right now no one is bothering to test them until it gets changed.

[Nirgon]

Beta is your chance to log in and help test and get what you've all been asking for. Test it, post the shit and get back to it.

As far as "being fixed in a timely manner", this isn't the WoW arena pvp board where you can arm-chair-cry/develop in unison to get what you want.

Well, maybe not, good job trolling them into thinking no item loot was a good idea along with an 8 level range.

[Galacticus]

Cry more.

You spend 10x as much time crying on the forums than you do actually testing, digging through the wayback machine for research, etc.

You, and obviously others, would rather whine about how the beta is run than actually doing anything constructive. This post is just another fucking vagina bleed.

Learn to beta. Stop fucking crying and get shit done rather than complain about how you have to *GASP* beta test. This beta is no different than any I've ever participated in for an MMO, other than it has more retards complaining on the forums about inconsequential shit. You never see "OMG leveling is too slow" on beta forums for other games. Yet, here you pussies are..."hardcore pvpers" :rolleyes:



Edit: Added Gloinz quote that I didn't see while responding.


You talk about being constructive like you know what it means. Try giving some actual ideas rather then more criticism.

This thread is all about testing more effectively.

Trolls point fingers and say you're wrong, and then have no clue why or what a better idea would be.

We know the devs aren't all about TL;DR like most of the idiots who have no idea about what their talking about.

Try helping bro. Try it, if possible.

[Galacticus]

Beta is your chance to log in and help test and get what you've all been asking for. Test it, post the shit and get back to it.

As far as "being fixed in a timely manner", this isn't the WoW arena pvp board where you can arm-chair-cry/develop in unison to get what you want.

Well, maybe not, good job trolling them into thinking no item loot was a good idea along with an 8 level range.

There are certain bugs that can't be tested by us as players as the beta stands. A big part of it is no one knows what things should be like. We all have our own opinions on what resisted more or less, what stacked, what was classic or not. We don't have hit and miss statistics or the math behind certain mechanics.

Point being we need something to compair to... a sort of master list of how the devs want things to run and then we as beta testers can meet those goals.

Another issue is that there is too much time investment to arbitrarily test certain ideas. Classes that aren't being rolled past 40 won't get the testing they need. When people avoid pvp until they are higher level because they aren't as powerful means they don't test pvp at those levels. For classes that solo it's no big deal, but if you need to group to level and it takes you a long time to find a group, you care more about that exp you lost pvping.

You guys act like there is no other way to test things then the way you think.


Most importantly it's about making this server the best it can be and to cut down the workload piled on the dev team.

[Galacticus]

Also OP is an idiot.

[Nirgon]

I'm all about consolidated testing of summoning people to the arena and having vendors setup. People will show up on those nights for sure. Copying over the blue characters towards the end for a month would be good too.

[Nixus]

I didn't read a lot of the crying, but EQ2 pvp beta auto level'd people.

it seemed OK /shrug