Interesting post, and a warning..

[Palemoon]

Secrets posted this over on FoH, but its pertinent to what is going on right now here. The bolded part is why we need Uthgaard back as pvp sever GM. The faster we get that 1/3rd greifer elemtent gone, the better. Secrets went onto say that that griefer element drove off a large percentage of other players, leading to a spiral downward in the boxes.

The "griefers" back in 1999 were a small percentage. From the forum posts here, its likely to be half the players... and with the only professed "anti" RPK guild lead by a known trainer and someone who has been banned multiple times... well, it makes me worried for the server.

A shame there can't be a subscription attached to these accounts, that would filter out so much trash that just wants to ruin things.

I shut it down for a few reasons:

1) Time involvement. I could not afford to just sit there doing nothing but that server. It was becoming like a second school/job to me.

2) Hackusations and general complaints about players interacting with each other. A lot of people (I'd say like... 35%) were cheating. I never finished that anti-cheat completely, but Rogean finished it after I provided a framework. That framework was picked up as a false positive by AVs, and then I had to make a new framework. That's what is in use on P1999 today.

About 35% were there for the sake of trolling other players.
And by trolling, I meant to the point where they would grief someone off the server. Not to do battle with others.

The rest were legitimate people trying to have fun.

3) Depend on the two PVP servers I have ran, there were different issues. Qeynos vs Freeport had the issue of no general direction or goal. There was also the issue of the EQEmu source having almost everything wrong or geared to make the numbers look right on ProjectEQ, the live emulator. I tried to follow PEQ's numbers but didn't know enough about classic PVP to close all the loopholes or achieve perfect balance. I also did not know what the playerbase wanted; some wanted WoW-style PvP, and a majority wanted it to be the next VZTZ. I did not want it, at all, to be the next VZTZ.

Conflicting ideas with custom ideas destroyed that server, as well as my sanity from trying to maintain the playerbase and keep them happy. When it shut down, there was still a considerable amount of people online for a custom PVP server, which is 50-100.

As for VZTZ v4, that was done on a whim and was generally something to hold people off until Red99. As soon as I saw Red99 was in sights, I dropped the v4 project.

Also, Let me tell you this right now -- About 99% of the work done on P1999 was not done by me. I fixed minor client issues and provided the framework to do so. I may have fixed a quest or two back a while... I might be "in-the-know", but I do not claim to do everything, especially with how little I have contributed to the project at large. I am a person who does what seems impossible and tackles that head-on. I don't like doing things related to content, I am not a designer, I am a coder. I would rather make the tools to do so instead of make something out of something that already exists. Maybe it's just because I like challenges; I do not know.

I have been researching the early stages of getting the godawful UI back (the classic one, not the velious one.) and to be honest, it's completely possible, SOE never removed anything from the graphics DLL that wouldn't make it possible. Heck, while learning about the old UI elements and how that is toggled, I learned that the velious UI was basically an XML-style interface that was hardcoded into the client! It's pretty cool how they changed it into an XML interface.

Anyway, that's what happened to my server (and me, for that matter.)
__________________
Secrets

[Softcore PK]

Who is Uthgaard, and why is he so good at stopping/preventing those things? And FoH is Fires of Heaven?

This was a good post. VZTZ was, of course, ruined in part by griefing and hacking. Another issue I think was the attitude that the game was supposed to take place at max level with raid gear. Casual play was always viable on live; without it almost everyone quits.

[Sorath]

I bet palemoon was also disapoint when y2k didnt happen lol your post reminds me of...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1223225/Will-world-end-December-21-2012-The-worrying-evidence-ancient-astrologers-claim-film-inspired.htmlhttp://www.epinions.com/trvl-review-3040-65692C7-385F8350-prod3

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm
http://www.exitmundi.nl/Maya.htm


QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ,QQ. :cool:

[Softcore PK]

It's not at all a stretch to imagine this server being destroyed by the VZTZ crowd. They've already done it to 3+ incarnations of emulated eq pvp play...

[Atmas]

I really wish we could have the population for multiple servers. I think everyone wants to play the ruleset they did on live for years.

There is no point in thinking you are going to eliminate the griefers. They represent a pretty die hard and large segment of the population. Honestly with bind camping being legal and xp deaths this environment kind of fosters them.

[Sorath]

PVP is ludacrwisss !!!
Reweesee Red 99 I wanna eat ur childrensss!!!

[Rust1d?]

This pvp server will start fine but will end up bad if the players act like a bunch of fucking retards. Players need to:

1) Not hack/cheat - There is no reason to hack/cheat on a 13 year old games emulated pvp server. This is the main reason why servers fail.

2) Stop whining - if your guild got shit napped by another in fear, live with it and go do something else. No reason to have a 4 hour shit storm involving GM's who could be better servered helping people with legit problems.

3) Stop griefing - If you kill someone, say GF and move on. I cannot tell you how good it was to have a very close 1v1 fight with someone, win and end up being friends. I did not corpse camp him, I did not /tell him how much he sucked. I said, GF, you can come get your body.

4) If you die, deal with it - It is a pvp server, you die LEGIT - deal with it. If you suspect hacks, report it to a GM and have them look into it.

5) No training - Accidents happen, that is understandabe. But repeated trains (see sojourner in K&B) is completely retarded. Go do something else if you cannot win legit.

There are probably more but these are the basics. If the players just followed these steps, the server could be great. If not, it will be complete shit in a matter of months.

[Bockscar]

Who is Uthgaard

Uthgaard was one of the server's GMs up until a few months ago. He was basically the server police, dealing with everything negative and keeping people under control. He was a blunt, abrasive bastard which made it difficult to deal with him if you weren't one of the troublemakers yourself, but a blunt bastard was what the server needed, and he was the right guy to do it. You don't keep a bunch of asshole players under control with nice words. That's why he would be perfect for a PvP server. As far as I can tell, he quit because the head GMs refused to permaban the 365 players who were caught hacking a few months back, giving them a more lenient punishment instead because they didn't want to delete that many accounts.

As for this server, it'll be better than VZTZ. There'll be many more players, and the majority won't be from VZTZ which was a fairly small and insular server with a tight-knit (if volatile) community. They had a kind of hivemind and it was accepted and expected for people to behave in a certain way. With many more players who weren't part of that, this server will be different. There will still be a lot of dicks around, but they won't ruin the server unless the GMs neglect their duties and allow them to do so. The anti-hacking measures alone should prevent the biggest problem that VZTZ had. A good chunk of the VZTZ players won't stick around when it turns out leveling takes months and griefing is not met with unanimous praise and circlejerk high-fives. Some of the VZTZers can function fine in a more civilized environment and mostly enjoyed that server's atmosphere as a kind of hobby where they could get away with all kinds of shit. Others were unintelligent assclowns outside of the game too, so just make note of these (they're very recognizable) and ignore them.

[mitic]

we just need more active guides/mgs/whatever..right now the betaserver is flooded by childish comments nonstop in ooc

[Rust1d?]

We would not need more GM's if people just behave.

[Khurak]

A couple of thoughts on the subject.

EQ is, has been and will be a PvE game.

If you want only PvP, try DAoC, Warhammer, Aion, Prime on Line (Beta still at this stage) or a couple of others where you have in game mechanics for PvP rewards/gloating (RPs, PvP levels, some kind of yellow text or leader boards, specific gear and so on).

Begging to make EQ a similar game is not even close to classic (which i understand Red99 is trying to be).

Here PvP will be a mean to control zones and ressources (ie Phat Dragon loot) without having to poopsock and /petition for Ubah BP loot rights or because SoandSo had FTE.

It should also be a lot of fun but NOT an MMO version of an FPS game.

Please don't pour some FPS in my EQ :)

[Softcore PK]

We would not need more GM's if people just behave.

I think we need to ensure that playing nicely, following the rules and not acting blah is a viable playstyle. So far, it seems that the only guilds that are organized and will be ready to go at launch are full of griefers and cheaters. You're right to say that it's not up to the GMs to police everything that goes on, but no one is stepping forward and saying they are going to be the good guys.

And maybe it's still too early for a movement or raid guild like this to be created, but it's certainly not too early for the bad guys to pull together in preparation.

[pickled_heretic]

you can't ever expect people to act differently than what they are. every single "society should" or "we should" or "this group should" that has ever been uttered has been a complete waste of breath. leadership and discipline will come from above or it will not come at all.

[ChubbyBubbles]

A couple of thoughts on the subject.

EQ is, has been and will be a PvE game.

If you want only PvP, try DAoC, Warhammer, Aion, Prime on Line (Beta still at this stage) or a couple of others where you have in game mechanics for PvP rewards/gloating (RPs, PvP levels, some kind of yellow text or leader boards, specific gear and so on).



For the rest of us who have always played eq on a non-carebear server. EQ is a pvp game. Always has been. Pve is just the reason to do the pvp.

[Rust1d?]

Then the admins will simply shut down the project. The people misbehaving in general is what kills the servers. I have never hacked/cheated, not sure why others need to. If people want to come here to "re-live" classic EQ, why ruin it?

[pickled_heretic]

A couple of thoughts on the subject.

EQ is, has been and will be a PvE game.

If you want only PvP, try DAoC, Warhammer, Aion, Prime on Line (Beta still at this stage) or a couple of others where you have in game mechanics for PvP rewards/gloating (RPs, PvP levels, some kind of yellow text or leader boards, specific gear and so on).

Begging to make EQ a similar game is not even close to classic (which i understand Red99 is trying to be).

Here PvP will be a mean to control zones and ressources (ie Phat Dragon loot) without having to poopsock and /petition for Ubah BP loot rights or because SoandSo had FTE.

It should also be a lot of fun but NOT an MMO version of an FPS game.

Please don't pour some FPS in my EQ :)

daoc was probably the most "carebear" pvp game ever. segregated pvp/pve areas, plenty of safe zones to level, all pvp was consensual, etc. but it also had pvp as the main focus of the game. you can make a set of rules that can do both.

[Naikon]

classic daoc on the pvp server was a lot of fun

[Silikten]

It's not at all a stretch to imagine this server being destroyed by the VZTZ crowd. They've already done it to 3+ incarnations of emulated eq pvp play...

First off, saying false accusations like this is what will get you griefed. Nobody likes people who throw around responsibility like none of it is their fault. Second, if you intend to respond by saying "I never played with the VZTZ crowd" (whatever the fuk you mean by vztz crowd) then you are commenting on something to which you have no idea about. Another reason why people will dislike you. I already do.

I played on VZTZ, there were incredibly nice people and very awesome GMs. The reason it got shut down was hacking. Not grief. People's idea of grief are totally different. One may be killing him while on a CR and he quits. Another may be training him twice. Some people just can't get over the fact it is just a game.

Also, Nilbog, along with several other people liked the idea of item loot. But people like you feel that is "griefing." So what exactly is griefing?

Lastly, EQ has always been a PvP game. The best one I have played. As Fuzzy stated, the only reason to PvE is to be the top at PvP, period. It is incredibly easy to beat a game. INCREDIBLY EASY. To beat something that can adapt and evolve, like a player, is considerably harder.

[Softcore PK]

First off, saying false accusations like this is what will get you griefed. Nobody likes people who throw around responsibility like none of it is their fault. Second, if you intend to respond by saying "I never played with the VZTZ crowd" (whatever the fuk you mean by vztz crowd) then you are commenting on something to which you have no idea about. Another reason why people will dislike you. I already do.

I played on VZTZ, there were incredibly nice people and very awesome GMs. The reason it got shut down was hacking. Not grief. People's idea of grief are totally different. One may be killing him while on a CR and he quits. Another may be training him twice. Some people just can't get over the fact it is just a game.

Also, Nilbog, along with several other people liked the idea of item loot. But people like you feel that is "griefing." So what exactly is griefing?

Lastly, EQ has always been a PvP game. The best one I have played. As Fuzzy stated, the only reason to PvE is to be the top at PvP, period. It is incredibly easy to beat a game. INCREDIBLY EASY. To beat something that can adapt and evolve, like a player, is considerably harder.

I tried playing on VZTZ, but I was left in the dust as far as leveling went, and had to play catch up. Then every guild seemed to make it a requirement to know all of the high-end content before joining. Not just raids, but exp spots and everything. On live, I didn't get to experience much high-end content until luclin/pop because I was elf purist and PK'd out of those places 95% of the time. It was just a little too hardcore for me. But I did watch.

And what I saw was hacking, training, finger-pointing (GM favoritism) and generally immature behavior, on ALL sides.

Btw, I have never said (nor do I believe) that item loot is griefing. It just doesn't belong on Red99, at least for the time being, because of what it would to population. Prospective blues do not want item loot, and we need prospective blues :P

[Aesop]

global ooc is stupid, and is currently filled with ****** this, jew that etc. which ofc turns people off to even BETA. The level range thing is buggy, and while I appreciate the thought I'm not sure how useful it is (seems to have the opposite intended more often than not). While the low level griefers were always part of the game, they are not to the extent they exist here with the ADD/WOW playing crowd who can't even handle 1000% exp and sit at level 20 in places like Crushbone (best pvp zone ever) - I got corpse camped for over a level's worth of exp one night (I could have just zone plugged, I just didn't want to give him the satisfaction).

Anyhow none of this really deters me personally, but the people it does deter are the kind of people I want playing here. I don't want to play with the same mouthbreathing population again, well check that I want to play with them I just don't want it to be *just* them.

[Silikten]

Well, one could argue you destroyed the population by leaving due to not being able to hang. There are many arguable cases which is my point. Don't throw blame. It's irresponsible.

As far as your experience. . .It sounds like you just couldn't make friends. Not sure what to say.

Aesop, I completely agree.

[Aesop]

ofc this is BETA but I worry people are taking their cue from it, which I suppose on launch day I need to roll a mage and white knight zones for the first couple weeks to ensure my precious bluebie population stays.

[Silikten]

Yeah man. Get a bigger group of nice people and teach the dickheads how its done imo. I'm all for that!

Seriously, I would love to see the aholes get owned by people.

[Sniperfire]

WHATS WITH ALL THE qq

[Morninx]

First off, saying false accusations like this is what will get you griefed. Nobody likes people who throw around responsibility like none of it is their fault. Second, if you intend to respond by saying "I never played with the VZTZ crowd" (whatever the fuk you mean by vztz crowd) then you are commenting on something to which you have no idea about. Another reason why people will dislike you. I already do.

I played on VZTZ, there were incredibly nice people and very awesome GMs. The reason it got shut down was hacking. Not grief. People's idea of grief are totally different. One may be killing him while on a CR and he quits. Another may be training him twice. Some people just can't get over the fact it is just a game.

Also, Nilbog, along with several other people liked the idea of item loot. But people like you feel that is "griefing." So what exactly is griefing?


Lastly, EQ has always been a PvP game. The best one I have played. As Fuzzy stated, the only reason to PvE is to be the top at PvP, period. It is incredibly easy to beat a game. INCREDIBLY EASY. To beat something that can adapt and evolve, like a player, is considerably harder.


VZTZ servers were awesome. Sure there was a little hacking and that was what ruined the servers. I didnt really care, i enjoyed the focus on PvP. If i got beat or got "griefed" or corpse camped or trained... I logged off and lived my real life and then came back later. IMO VZTZrs view this box as a game(as it should). Bluebies play EQ too seriously. Training/Griefing/Corpse Camping(maybe not too extreme) is all a part of what makes the game interesting... Learn to Adapt..

As for item loot. that was a badass concept on live but unfortunately it discourages PVP and also has people running around bagging their gear instead of fighting. Even loss of money discourages PvP.

Encouraging PvP should be the #1 goal of a PvP server.

[Morninx]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Meant to say Loss of experience on a hard classic experience rate server (not loss of money, use a bank) discourages pvp.

[Lazortag]

VZTZ servers were awesome. ...

VZTZ sure was great, I especially loved how selo's and sow worked indoors.

[Atmas]

Encouraging PvP should be the #1 goal of a PvP server.

Exactly. A lot of people want xp death just so they can inflict emotional harm on someone. I would really just rather have fun fighting people.

[juicedsixfo]

VZTZ sure was great, I especially loved how selo's and sow worked indoors.

K&B had the 2 minute selo version in, it owned hard

[Nirgon]

a little hacking


Lol. How about .... lol.

[Silentone]

I played EQ1 from 1999 to 2007ish i believe, I never played PvP, however I was in a high end raiding guild. PVP on P99 is something I want to try, however from eveything I am reading it just sounds like a lot of BS. I mean why must their be so much childish behavior out of a community that is known for being so great. Also if PVP server is anything like a PVE server then your reputation matters, and I cant imagine someone getting away with being an Asshat and still being accepted by the community. I guess thats my main question, concern, "Is being a complete asshole,cheater accepted on pvp servers, by raiding guilds?"

[Nirgon]

The good news is if the ass wipes don't get dragon spawns, they will fight amongst each other and dissolve. You have to fight, no complain/petition, to save the server brews.

[Pico]

yea lets get the guy who was known for being a complete power tripping egomaniac who indiscriminately mashed his ae #ban button in newbie zones to be the r99 gm, sounds like a great plan

[Morninx]

Lol. How about .... lol.

Hey man im trying lol

[Nirgon]

I'd vote him in easy. People wouldn't be so inclined to do absolutely stupid shit or cheat or troll so hard for GM reactions.

[SearyxTZ]

I vote Sirken. Uthgaard snapped on a blue server - red servers are much worse. I can't think of a worse idea tbh unless you just need some staff drama to go with your popcorn.

Anyone can play the "bad cop" GM.

Not everyone can keep a level head through the worst of things and act with impartiality. This is the type of person the server needs.

[pojab]

didnt like half the p99 bluebie server just get banned for hacking?

vztz was amazing. the only things that fucked it up were 1) gronkus physically stealing the server 2)kringes + pals fgt zone cmd shit 3) voidds horrible inability to write code.

i am all for more gm's. as long as they are held in check by a higher up monitoring potential bullshit like voidd summoning free gear for his rl friends.

[Terpuntine]

Funny how more of the blue population has hacked than the "vztz" players. Its been proven, you are all hacking crybabies now stfu and let's play some Everquest.

[pickled_heretic]

didnt like half the p99 bluebie server just get banned for hacking?

this is a fair point, i think people in general will do things that favor and endulge themselves if they think that there's nobody watching, whether red or blue.

in fact i don't really think there's much of a difference at all between the red and blue populations except they are entertained by different aspects of human interaction. for every gawain there are half a dozen mordreds in both populations.

[Xantille]

didnt like half the p99 bluebie server just get banned for hacking?

vztz was amazing. the only things that fucked it up were 1) gronkus physically stealing the server 2)kringes + pals fgt zone cmd shit 3) voidds horrible inability to write code.

i am all for more gm's. as long as they are held in check by a higher up monitoring potential bullshit like voidd summoning free gear for his rl friends.

[Silentone]

IMO, maybe should have cell phone numbers with a txt back function to be able to play on Red99 or even Blue99...so that you can ban someone if they are cheating and get rid of them. i know its not a 100% But i think Rogean talked about it..would be cool..

[Atmas]

Half is an extreme exaggeration. But yes hacks are not indigenous to PvP or PvE.

[L1ch]

http://i.imgur.com/dWV9G.png

[Scrooge]

Then the admins will simply shut down the project. The people misbehaving in general is what kills the servers. I have never hacked/cheated, not sure why others need to. If people want to come here to "re-live" classic EQ, why ruin it?

Certain peoples sole reason to play is simply to ruin the fun of others. What they don't realize though, is that they not only ruin the fun of others, but their own fun as well especially after people leave the server and it all goes down the drain.

[Harrison]

Funny how more of the blue population has hacked than the "vztz" players. Its been proven, you are all hacking crybabies now stfu and let's play some Everquest.

False, but nice try.

Percentage of players is the more important statistic and everyone with half a brain knows there was a significantly higher portion of you lowlife schmucks cheating than the percentage on P99. (Guess where most of them caught came from since your shitbox died?! OMG VZTZ?!)

[Aesop]

False, but nice try.

Percentage of players is the more important statistic and everyone with half a brain knows there was a significantly higher portion of you lowlife schmucks cheating than the percentage on P99. (Guess where most of them caught came from since your shitbox died?! OMG VZTZ?!)

You must have the inside information on what percentage of people caught came from pvp right? Or the exact percentage of cheaters on pvp servers, or you could just be doing some baseless jabbering about something you clearly feel really defensive about.


Terpuntine is an idiot though.

[Vile]

who is harrison though, really?

[Harrison]

I've played on both servers.

One was a disgusting cess pool of cheating shitbags not even attempting to hide it because there were no consequences, and the server soon died as a result.

Guess which one this was? I'll give you downies a few guesses for good measure.

[Aesop]

Even on red99 people are already starting with the hacking accusations. Hiding in a not so good hiding spot and get found? 'acking

Knowing game mechanics they don't understand? 'acking

I think there was a good portion who was doing some 'acking but it wasn't as widespread as you think. I know I never did, and rarely thought someone else was except in the really clear cases #zonecmd shit, but really people are creatures of habit, even myself and knowing where someone might be hiding in a zone doesn't mean it's a hacking cesspool.

Yeah it got cesspooly at points for sure though but for most of my career on gronkbox etc. it seemed not too horrible to me.

[Harrison]

I'm not the type to casually toss around "OMG YOU HACKED"

I've seen, used, and fucked with the programs myself across various games so I would know what to look for. I know what they are capable of, and I've seen various forms of cheating across shitloads of games I've had to administrate servers for in the past.

People new to FPS cry hacks often.(and those that are just flat out bad) As an admin it is a pain in the balls to investigate this every, single, fucking time.
It's also necessary for the integrity and health of the server to do so, because sometimes it really IS a wolf.

Long story short; It was rampant and blatant on vztz.

[pojab]

using the same empirical evidence as harrison i can scientifically confirm that in fact 0 hacks were ever used on any iteration of VZTZ. this is confirmed fact and also was stated in first corinthians by jesus.

[Kringe]

Wrong Harrison is a pvp Pro.... Also Dispells are always resisted and should have a resist check, per Harrisons find and post.


Kthx

[Harrison]

[14:49] <+Kringe> i proved i pay taxes
[14:49] <+Kringe> u dont pay tages!

[Kringe]

Finawin-Harrison> This May Be An Offensive Spell After Patch of 01/20/2000 - Mohil (because someone named Mohil from 2000 says so rofl)
<+Finawin-Harrison> The patch text for that date says that spells like Nullify Magic will be regarded by mobs as an offensive action from now on. This bears testing in a controlled environment now methinks. (Currently level 21 so I can't test it yet.) Mohil of Innourruk (Again Jesus himself has spoken here according to Harrison)


I can quote IRC too im cool - Harrison Pvpsalot

[Lazortag]

Saying that more of the blue population hacked is just a complete fabrication. You can't possibly have any empirical evidence on what percentage of the VZTZ population hacked versus the percentage of the p99 population, since VZTZ never had any reliable cheat detection mechanisms. Claiming that "half the server" got banned is laughable considering the average population was barely affected after the 365 accounts were suspended. Just because 700 people log on every night doesn't mean that it's always the same 700 people, I know this is hard to fathom but project 1999 actually has a healthy population (something VZTZ never had) and tens of thousands of people have accounts on that server.

If we don't have any empirical evidence either way, we can go by anecdotal evidence which suggests that more people on red servers hack, and that they tend to hack more often. This isn't necessarily because red players are less skilled (although a quick glance at the "big names" on VZTZ would certainly give you this impression), but because there's a big element of competition and ego boosting on pvp servers that isn't as prominent on blue servers. Moreover, if you hacked on VZTZ and got caught (which wasn't likely to happen, since p99 has always had superior cheat detection methods) it wouldn't take nearly as long to level up a new character as it would on p99.

[tmoneynegro]

I vote Sirken. Uthgaard snapped on a blue server - red servers are much worse. I can't think of a worse idea tbh unless you just need some staff drama to go with your popcorn.

Best idea = no rules & no active GM's policing server

[Nirgon]

You may insult Harrison or even gang up on someone he is trolling but do not agree or disagree with anything he says. Especially, do not engage him in any kind of argument, this is the worst Harrison related offense one can commit against the community and this board.

[Amuk]

Pvp msg boards are usually fun but Harrison/Lazortag and the other faggots are ruining it.

[pojab]

complete fabrication ... 365 accounts were suspended... anecdotal evidence

great post. got lots of information there.

[Secrets]

I expected this to make its rounds here eventually. Before anyone blames any groups, you have to remember that these are large percentages due to the small population. I had 150ish peak players online. 35% of them cheated in some way shape or form. It wasn't just limited to warping, I include exploiting in that group as well.

Before anyone says, "well, isn't the red99 sky falling", it really isn't. During both incarnations I tried to keep GM involvement at different levels.

When becoming involved in the community and taking feedback, as well as policing things, I became horribly burnt out but the general playerbase was much happier as a result. You had a few sour apples that hated me, but that was to be expected.

The second time, I kept no GM interaction and let EQ mechanics police itself. The server became a hack-infested trainfest. Ask anyone who played VZTZ v4, they will tell you that.

You guys might think that no GM interaction is needed, but we really DO need active GMs. If you don't control the few people who are causing a disruption, everyone will think it's okay to cause a disruption and a chain reaction will happen where no one does PVP the way you intended or the players' intended, general mayhem will unfold resulting in one group quitting, then the other group quitting when they get bored.

PS: I'd like to comment on XP Rates: I still think the XP rates on P1999 are fine. Low-Mid PVP, to me, was the most exciting thing ever. It's your first impression on pvp though. I still think, if the population would support it, that level ranges would need to be tweaked to +/- 4. Since we're looking at 250+ players on launch day, the current ranges are kind of needed to ensure any kind of PVP, and I am okay with that.

[pojab]

honestly you hosting vztz code for like 2 months shouldnt be called vztz v4

[Toomuch]

I like what Secrets had to say. Someone's gotta enforce some kind of ruleset. The hacking and training, if unchecked, will inevitably ruin the server. We all are here to play some Classic EQ pvp, not Microsoft Train Simulator with "is is a good day to die" mode enabled. Those wanting to play that sort of game should look for it elsewhere. I've posted previously how pvp in regular EQ was ruined by a few things: introducing entirely overpowered game mechanics that didn't translate to pvp, and hacking/training without policing it.

I'm here to legitimately compete. I'm an extremely competitive feller. But when I, in my determination to not cross over to the dark side, am literally powerless to stop what is against me due to someone one-sidedly imbalancing the game by changing the mechanics, it is no longer competition, and the draw to the game is no longer there, nostalgia or no.

I plead with you guys that have the access and knowhow of hacking to just drop it for this venture, if for no other reason than the sake of your own fun and enjoyment. When you're the only kid left in the park, playing Calvin-ball by your own rules, are you really having that much fun?

[Amuk]

Yeah what pojab said, the server had like instant cast necro life taps that you just ignored, infact I don't think you fixed any blatent game ruining problems or anything - server was a pile of ignored shit and had nothing to do with game mechanics for people losing interest.

[Secrets]

Yeah what pojab said, the server had like instant cast necro life taps that you just ignored, infact I don't think you fixed any blatent game ruining problems or anything - server was a pile of ignored shit and had nothing to do with game mechanics for people losing interest.

I didn't claim for it to be the best server out there, matter of the fact was, game mechanics were broken then people lost interest. I don't think you realize insta-cast lifetaps were game mechanics.

Also, the playerbase abused mechanics because it was the only way to win, and nothing was done about it. If I had a dedicated staff at the time, it could've been a lot better.

I chose not to do that after hearing about Red99.

[Secrets]

honestly you hosting vztz code for like 2 months shouldnt be called vztz v4

It wasn't just "vztz code", by the by, it was about 3 hours of work with the database and source to close loopholes that were fixed in current emu source.

I can admit that it was not a lot of work, but to call it something other than vztz is you just hating me for shutting it down.

I didn't see anyone else hosting vztz at the time, either.

[Silikten]

Saying that more of the blue population hacked is just a complete fabrication.... after the 365 accounts were suspended. Just because 700 people log on every night doesn't mean that it's always the same 700 people,

Haha. Complete fabrication, i agree! Harrison and Lazor reppin it really well. Vztz didn't even have 200 people (the real, first version). There were maybe 12-15 ppl that hacked.

Exploits, however it may seem, are game mechanics and arguable.

[Harrison]

If you think exploiting is "arguably" cheating then your integrity is gone.

[Silikten]

If you think exploiting is "arguably" cheating then your integrity is gone.

You, and every other person on EQ has exploited pathing at some point or another. Hence, it is arguable as to cheating or not.

And my interwebs integrity is gone? Oh noes. Whatever shall I do..

[Harrison]

It is not arguable if it is cheating. If you disagree with this fact, you are wrong.

"An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

This is cheating. How you can disagree with this is fucking downright magical...

[valithteezee]

This is a very different server and environment than the last boxes. If someone wants to level a toon up for 4 months to 50 and then get IP banned for hacks or whatever then let them. Jokes on them.

[Sniperfire]

sirken is the best gm but hes also a bleeding heart......gms should stay out of all pvp imo

[fistses]

Secrets posted this over on FoH, but its pertinent to what is going on right now here. The bolded part is why we need Uthgaard back as pvp sever GM. The faster we get that 1/3rd greifer elemtent gone, the better. Secrets went onto say that that griefer element drove off a large percentage of other players, leading to a spiral downward in the boxes.

The "griefers" back in 1999 were a small percentage. From the forum posts here, its likely to be half the players... and with the only professed "anti" RPK guild lead by a known trainer and someone who has been banned multiple times... well, it makes me worried for the server.

A shame there can't be a subscription attached to these accounts, that would filter out so much trash that just wants to ruin things.



I have a better idea. Self policing.
You see someone cheat, /report
you hear someone cheating on vent
/report
you suck dick at eq and think everyone is cheating, /report
you goto forums and cry like a little bitch /ban
no reason to talk about people cheating on forums, in /tells, in ooc, anywhere. you mention cheating, you get banned. you want to police cheating, send a report to a gm and they can check logs and stroke your dick for you. you bring it to forums you get banned and a dick shoved in your mouth.

[pojab]

I can admit that it was not a lot of work, but to call it something other than vztz is you just hating me for shutting it down.


no, it wasnt an iteration of vztz because it was just some random guy putting up old code that he found on the internet for a month before giving up and throwing in the towel.

[fuark]

aesop you can white knight me all day

[Billbike]

VZTZ existed because: it is better to exist, than not to.

No other place to PvP At the time and I would never play blue.

Nothing is perfect, nothing last forever.