Melee hitbox issue: facing target bug

[lethdar]

While I believe the hitbox may need to be upped by maybe 33% at most, there is a more pressing bug that might be responsible for the issues we've seen.

On live you could melee anyone from any direction around you, someone behind you, in front of you, to your sides, etc. This was a very big part of a particular rogue jousting strategy (running through to backstab, etc).

Here on r99 beta you can ONLY melee people who are within a 90 degree cone in front of you.

[georgie]

i do remmeber that i think it should be 180 and thats it all around seems stupid i remember secrets box i hit some dude that was medding behind me

[lethdar]

On everquest live is was 360 degrees for pvp, you never got "Cannot see this target" unless they were around a corner but in range, yes you could hit people directly behind you. The entire point of the tactic of run through backstabs in jousting was to directly take advantage of this. You weren't required to spin 180 after running through someone to backstab, you stabbed out of your ass.

[Softcore PK]

Ooooh. If this is really happening, it needs to be fixed. Maybe hitbox wasn't even a problem? 360º needed, always was on live.

[Rogean]

I think you guys are right about this, I did quite a bit of pvp jousting myself as a rogue

[Rogean]

Can anyone hop on al'kabor and test this?

[Palemoon]

Can anyone hop on al'kabor and test this?

Ok just tested this in bazar Arena on Al'kabor, I could punch my other toon no matter which direction I faced and no matter which side I was standing on.

Did not need to be facing my target to punch.

And could also backstab my other guy while my back was facing his back.

[Softcore PK]

Can you get a screenshot of how far apart you can be to hit? :P

[Palemoon]

Can you get a screenshot of how far apart you can be to hit? :P

My dwarf has a corpse in the arena, let me measure in dwarf body parts how far i can hit... brb... :p


Human trying to hit a dark elf (old models):

I could hit the dark elf at about two dwarf corpses (old models) distance, set long ways head to head.

Something else I noticed was the push, was kinda supprised at how much I was pushing the dark elf away from the dwarf corpse across the arena floor, even with just un hasted punching (necro one hand). I had to move up a tad just after about 15 seconds or so because I pushed the dark elf out of range.

[Rogean]

PvP Attacks no longer require the attacker to be facing their target.
Pending patch.

[Softcore PK]

You're the best Rogean :D

[Softcore PK]

My dwarf has a corpse in the arena, let me measure in dwarf body parts how far i can hit... brb... :p


Human trying to hit a dark elf (old models):

I could hit the dark elf at about two dwarf corpses (old models) distance, set long ways head to head.

Something else I noticed was the push, was kinda supprised at how much I was pushing the dark elf away from the dwarf corpse across the arena floor, even with just un hasted punching (necro one hand). I had to move up a tad just after about 15 seconds or so because I pushed the dark elf out of range.

Yes, push was a huge part of spell interrupts from melee, as I recall..

[tmoneynegro]

While I believe the hitbox may need to be upped by maybe 33% at most

Hit box is way too small, needs to be probably 50-100% larger than whatever it was set to on day 1. I would start with 50% increase.

[lethdar]

My dwarf has a corpse in the arena, let me measure in dwarf body parts how far i can hit... brb... :p


Human trying to hit a dark elf (old models):

I could hit the dark elf at about two dwarf corpses (old models) distance, set long ways head to head.


http://i.imgur.com/0sc7n.jpg

I believe the hitbox we have currently is accurate, this range test on the server seems to show the range is about 2 dwarfs long, just as palemoon found on al kabor.

Now i know dwarf corpses are not the most scientific measuring tool and all, but theres no way that the range in the screenshot should be increased by 50 to 100%.

[lethdar]

Palemoon, if it's not too much of a trouble could you check the exact locs when you were in range and went out of range of push? Just record it with each swing of melee until the last two where you're in range and then the loc of the next one where the punch has pushed out oor. With this data we can directly compare to here.

[Palemoon]

Ok, in the name of pvp :P

Human Necro: static puncher starting loc: -32.13, 77.17, -66.25

Dark Elf Wizard: the one who is punched..

starting loc where I am barely in punch range: -33.22, 61.55, -66.87

Punched the dark elf once then he was out of range.

check his loc and: -33.22, 61.49, -66.87

eyeballed look slightly more then two dwarf corpses. Sounds about right with that posted screenshot.

[Harrison]

On everquest live is was 360 degrees for pvp, you never got "Cannot see this target" unless they were around a corner but in range, yes you could hit people directly behind you. The entire point of the tactic of run through backstabs in jousting was to directly take advantage of this. You weren't required to spin 180 after running through someone to backstab, you stabbed out of your ass.

This happened in both pvp and in pve. I did both regularly.

[lethdar]

on our server:

Static puncher loc: -2085.47, -205, -16.45

Target last in range loc: -2069.54, -205, -16.45
Target oor loc: -2069.44, -205, -16.45

[Palemoon]

Second Test on Al'kabor eqmac server:

Human necro puncher starting loc: -32.14, 75.53, -66.25

Dark elf wiz starting loc: -33.22, 61.37, -66.87

I then proceed to punch the dark elf once, and on each sucessful hit I check the dark elf's loc. The first and last number never changes, here is a list of the middle number after each sucessful punch:

61.30, 61.24, 61.18, 61.12, 61.05, 60.99, 60.93, 60.87, 60.81, 60.74, 60.68, 60.62, 60.56, 60.50, 60.44

at 60.44 I was too far away for the next punch to land. Rechecked the Human's loc at this point and it was the same as his starting loc (incase some strange recoil push might happen).

[lethdar]

So what we can tell from these tests is the hitbox on live has a range that is smaller than 15.68 locs, but perhaps slightly larger than 15.62.

On our server the hitbox is at least smaller than 16.03 locs (range my char was oor or attack) with a tested boundary at 15.93 locs being in range.

This seems to show that the hitboxes between live and red99 are basically the same, with the tested difference being less than 1 loc long(though note, our hitbox is larger than lives). Certainly not justification for 50 to 100% increases over what we currently have.

[Harrison]

Like it has been explained before, the stationary range is fine. The range on moving targets because of the nature of reporting locations via serverside : clientside communication is...way off.

[Crenshinabon]

Maybe since you cannot currently be facing away while behind your target when jousting is why hit boxes seem so small in pvp and pve. Would fixing this technically be increasing the hitbox by 50%?

[Xantille]

PvP Attacks no longer require the attacker to be facing their target.
Pending patch.

Praise Lord Jesus Rogean and his faithful servant Lethdar.