Resist results on even level and lower players here

[Harrison]

I've spoken to a large amount of people who can support this too:

Even level and under players resist way too fucking much on snare and grasping roots.

I'm talking 5+ times in a row with absolutely no resist buffs, gear, etc.

This is able to be reproduced and is definitely not right. If you've experienced this, "report in."

[Harrison]

I'm going to be busy today, but a good idea will be for people to do this in relative safety and post results. If no one does this I will do it later tonight when I get home.

Level of caster:
Level of victim:
Spell cast:
Amount of times casted:
Amount of times resisted:
Approximate length of duration(and the averages if you're thorough):

[tufflax]

I cast 5 nukes on a white con. All hit for 1 (2x Shock of Flame, 3x Shock of Blades).

[Harrison]

I cast 5 nukes on a white con. All hit for 1 (2x Shock of Flame, 3x Shock of Blades).

Could you fill out the information above to make this more thorough for the developers?

I'm going to bed so I can't do this tonight like I had planned.

[tmoneynegro]

edit: changed graphs

If we're doing classic style resists, I don't even remember having a spell resist on a naked person on EQ live before. Damage spells should use a different formula but crowd control spells should be like the following. These are both accurate within a 5% margin of error:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7150/54217596.jpg

and another

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6489/linear4.jpg

[Lazortag]

If we're doing classic style resists, I don't even remember having a spell resist on a naked person on EQ live before. Damage spells should use a different formula but crowd control spells should use one of these formulas to emulate EQ live IMO:


http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5918/linear1.jpg


http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8881/linear2.jpg

Wormcheck those are some really complex graphs you have there, did you get them directly from Verant or are those your own creations?

[pickled_heretic]

Wormcheck those are some really complex graphs you have there, did you get them directly from Verant or are those your own creations?

i think he got dr. hawking to make them for him actually

[gloinz]

should curve at 100 resist imo then never hit 100%

[Pescador]

Clearly once you hit 120 MR you are unrootable. Everyone who played on a pvp server knows this.

In all seriousness, it's likely that resists behave something like this:

[pickled_heretic]

should curve at 100 resist imo then never hit 100%

i posted a more articulate response in the other thread this retarded graph was posted in. this is called a hyperbolic function. you can generate a hyperbole with the formula y = tanh(x) and you can make it conform to any pattern by adding coefficients in the right spots.

for instance you could make a fairly nice EQ pvp resist formula like this:

y=tanh(x/100+(10*n)

where y is the resist rate, x is your MR, and N is the difference in levels.

assuming there's no difference in level, your resist rate would be about 29% at 30mr, 76% at 100mr, and 96% at 200mr. EQ always rounds down so there would never be a 100% resist rate, but it would start rounding to 99% at about 270mr.

with a 5 level deficit, your resist rate would drop to 19% at 30mr, 58% at 100mr, and 87% at 200mr.

with a 5 level advantage, your resist rate would be 53% at 30mr, 96% at 100mr and you would be over the 99% cap at 200mr.

this is just a sample, you could tweak the formula however you wanted. but i'm sure nilbog, rogean etc already know plenty about maths and have a good idea for a formula in mind.

[pickled_heretic]

i posted a more articulate response in the other thread this retarded graph was posted in. this is called a hyperbolic function. you can generate a hyperbole with the formula y = tanh(x) and you can make it conform to any pattern by adding coefficients in the right spots.

for instance you could make a fairly nice EQ pvp resist formula like this:

y=tanh(x/100+(10*n)

where y is the resist rate, x is your MR, and N is the difference in levels.

assuming there's no difference in level, your resist rate would be about 29% at 30mr, 76% at 100mr, and 96% at 200mr. EQ always rounds down so there would never be a 100% resist rate, but it would start rounding to 99% at about 270mr.

with a 5 level deficit, your resist rate would drop to 19% at 30mr, 58% at 100mr, and 87% at 200mr.

with a 5 level advantage, your resist rate would be 53% at 30mr, 96% at 100mr and you would be over the 99% cap at 200mr.

this is just a sample, you could tweak the formula however you wanted. but i'm sure nilbog, rogean etc already know plenty about maths and have a good idea for a formula in mind.


http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9861/equationy.png
since people lurv their graphs, i went and generated mine in excel. this graph is reproducible by the formula y=tanh(x/100+(10*n).

y axis is resist by percentage, x is MR. the blue line is resist values with a 5 level advantage, red is with no advantage and green is with a 5 level deficit. you could easily change the values by modifying the coefficients but it would be really stupid to use any other function than tanh to do this.

[Pescador]

You can use (1 - some exponential function) as well for essentially the same result, which is how I generated my graph.

But I agree, and I'm sure the devs know, that resists should fall off a cliff when the caster outlevels the target by more than a few levels, and you shouldn't see frequent resists unless the target outlevels you or has 100+ resists.

[pickled_heretic]

You can use (1 - some exponential function) as well for essentially the same result, which is how I generated my graph.

i'm sorry what? this doesn't make anything that resembles a hyperbole, exponential functions make graphs of exponential functions. resist rates would not approach 100%, they would blow right past them.

[Pescador]

1-e^-kx, where k is a function of level and resistance

[Lazortag]

Here's what I came up with (using an exponential function): http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100-100%284%29^%28-0.01x%29+from+0+to+400
(this has an asymptote at y = 100)

You'd need to add constants that factor resist modifiers (like with lifetaps) and the ratio of the two players' levels (ratio instead of difference since I'd think a level 10 should intuitively stomp a level 2 much easier than a level 50 stomps a level 42). This is a little bottom-heavy also (having 50 MR gives you roughly 50% resists with this which is kind of ridiculous) but I just wanted to have fun like everyone else.

[tmoneynegro]

should curve at 100 resist imo then never hit 100%

PvP resists capped at 98% during classic through velious, it's in the patch notes.

[Pudge]

PvP resists capped at 95% during classic through velious, it's in the patch notes.




Listen pal, I've already gone through this. I know for a fact that crowd control spells resisted over 90% of the time with 120MR.

When crowd control resists max out that fast, using a non-linear graph is wildly inaccurate to represent resists actually seen on PvP servers. They either give you too much resist early on, or not enough at the upper end. My linear graph is MUCH more accurate to what was actually seen on Sullon Zek for crowd control resists.

Please do not post graphs if you've never actually played high end PvP before in EQ.
nice i was about to mention the 95% thing.

i think resists just need to be tweaked with each era, to account for better gear. knuckle came up with a resist system he posted on vztz that didn't look bad. didn't agree with the exact numbers, but thought the general idea looked good. included partial resists too.

knuckle you have that post somewhere?

[tmoneynegro]

i think resists just need to be tweaked with each era, to account for better gear.

I don't care what they do with damage spells as long as crowd control spells function like normal EQ PvP and not "some random guy's wildly unbalanced implementation".

This is why it's absolutely stupid to have those spells land:

If you're playing a solo caster outdoors and there's a zerg chasing you, soon as the root lands, you're gonna spam gate or shadowstep and gate and probably get away easy.

If you're playing a melee and that happens, you just die as they chain cast it over and over. Making it so casters have more survivability than tank classes is utterly stupid and whoever thinks that's a good idea doesn't need to be let anywhere near the server code.

[Harrison]

I think we've found wehrmacht

[tmoneynegro]

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1925/resists.jpg

Here is the problem with this guy's graph he posted. Crowd control resist rates were parsed at 87% with 150MR during Luclin. This was after the patch to let spells land easier so resist rates were obviously higher before that. It was definitely over 90% with 120MR during Velious and previous expansions. Then *AFTER* the Luclin patch, they once again made magic resist even more effective because 87% resist rate against CC still made it too easy to kill pure melees that have 0 channeling skill to dispel it.

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7879

The second problem with his graph is that it shows a 30% resist rate while a character is naked with 25MR. When someone was naked, the resist rate was somewhere between 0-10%.

If you can create a chart/equation to show 0-10% crowd control resists while naked (25MR), around 90% resist rate with 100MR, and 95%+ with 120MR, then you probably have an accurate chart.

[tmoneynegro]

Here's the new ones I made, both of these formulas are accurate within a 5% margin of error. The second one just tapers off slower:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7150/54217596.jpg


http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6489/linear4.jpg

[Dexter]

Too high resist rates +1.

Level 3 druid casting on level 3 necro. Resisted 6/7 snares.

[returnofahipster]

Lvl 4 Erudite Wizard - Lvl 4 Erudite Paladin (Paladin 30MR 25 CR)

Casting Root - (lvl 4 spell)

1- Fail
2- Fail
3- Fail
4- Fail
5- Fail
6- Fail
7- Stuck for about 8 seconds
8- Fail
9- Fail
10- Fail
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Casting Shock of Frost - (lvl 1 spell) cold based

1- 4 dam
2- 4 dam
3- 4 dam
4- 4 dam
5- 4dam
6- 4 dam
7- 4 dam
8- 4 dam
9- 4 dam
10- 4 dam

[Harrison]

Finally, someone did it properly.

[Ptkfgs]

If we could get an official post from Rogean or others on the pvp code team that would be excellent. I would like to have some insight as to the plan for Resist ammount = Resist %. Thanks in advance =)

[Kelsar]

I concur resists need to be reviewed (in detail) for PvP and PvE.

[valithteezee]

I'm concerned when casting snare/root on a char that is 2 level's below with 25MR why 8/10 times it's getting resisted. +1 for having this looked at before live.

[returnofahipster]

Me (Lvl 22 Paladin) 45 MR vs Friend (Lvl 15 Paladin) 45 MR

Casting ROOT- Lvl 22 paladin spell
Me (lvl 22) casting on Him (lvl 15)

1- fail
2- fail
3- fail
4- fail
5- fail
6- fail
7- fail
8- fail
9- fail
10- fail
11- fail
12- fail
13- fail
14- fail
15- fail
16- stuck for about 30-35 seconds
17- fail
18- fail
19- fail
20- fail
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Casting Blind- Lvl 9 Paladin spell
Him (lvl 15) on me (lvl 22)

1-20 ALL FAILS

[Pudge]

to be accurate, you have use a parser to record like 1000 casts at different times of the day

however because the resist rates are so obviously fucked, this isn't necessary..


also i really hope all these shitty graphs ppl are posting will not influence the GMs to go with a something so simplistic, and so melee friendly. the resist system of EQ live was certainly not a simple curved line. it more likely was a number of different "formulas" at different levels; between 1-55 MR use formula 1, between 55 and 95 use formula 2, between 95 and 140 use 3, etc.

according to whermact's latest graph: naked= 0% resist rate. naked + one MR buff= 65% resist rate. retarded

[SearyxTZ]

Do not, for the love of God, implement the "classic" resist system (that is 100+ resist == resist everything).


Is Null doing this system? I would trust Null on this, if that's the case. He knows how it will affect class balance.

[Not_Kazowi]

I keep hearing people talk about in classic where root and snare never landed and were frankly never even loaded up and casted. Considering how shit damage melee are old world, especially without equipement, this sounds fair. I think it would be a lot more classic to have it where 100+ MR resists just about all roots and snares.

[Harrison]

This is a bug report, not your "this is my opinion on what I want that definitely isn't classic" thread.

And, read my sig.

[tmoneynegro]

Do not, for the love of God, implement the "classic" resist system (that is 100+ resist == resist everything).

It's only 100+ and you resist all CC spells, not damage spells. There's a big difference.



Is Null doing this system? I would trust Null on this, if that's the case. He knows how it will affect class balance.

Why even call this P99 PvP if you're just gonna let null recreate the same horrible TZVZ PvP system all over again that isn't even fun to play? Here's TZVZ:

1) Spam target with crowd control spells

2) Have zerg of people all assist on immobilized target for free, no skill kill

Sorry but that isn't even close to real EQ PvP. It takes far less skill to kill people. Don't remove all the god damn skill from jousting again and turn this into some festival of mongoloids attacking stationary targets.

[Harrison]

Can we reban wehrmacht?

[Drytan]

It's only 100+ and you resist all CC spells, not damage spells. There's a big difference.




Why even call this P99 PvP if you're just gonna let null recreate the same horrible TZVZ PvP system all over again that isn't even fun to play? Here's TZVZ:

1) Spam target with crowd control spells

2) Have zerg of people all assist on immobilized target for free, no skill kill

Sorry but that isn't even close to real EQ PvP. It takes far less skill to kill people. Don't remove all the god damn skill from jousting again and turn this into some festival of mongoloids attacking stationary targets.


I agree with this.

Plus, I came here to play classic EQ PvP, which was very balanced. 110 MR reisists all CC spells.