A History of Crime and Punishment

[Palemoon]

There is another "recreated old game" that i've been involved with over the years that has recreated and maintains the old late 1980's online roleplaying game "Island/Legends of Kesmai" that might be the first MMO ever.

(some of you old old timers might remember this game from compuserve, AOL, or Gamestorm)

Anyways, they have rules that need to be followed just like p99 has rules that need to be followed. Breaking the rules is harsh, usually account permenently banned.

What they do different though, is make it all public in updated "History of Crime and Punishment" threads. Detailing who the person was, what they did wrong, who their sponser/guild is, and the punishment.

Here is an example of how they do things, I removed the names and replaced it with a Xs:

Those who are unaware of history are doomed to repeat it. A good suggestion was made to keep an archive of the crimes that have been committed and the punishments that have been delivered, so that the community knows the status of its members.

Crime Report
Date: August 19, 2011

X has been permanently banned from our community for scripting.

X has also been permanently banned from our community. Review of our records indicates that X has allowed X to utilize his game account extensively which is a clear violation of the RoC. Since X obviously has access to X's account and since X has been banned for scripting, X is banned as well.

Crime Report
Date: July 20, 2011

X and X have both been permanently banned from our community for scripting.

Crime Report
Date: June 12, 2011

X has received an official warning for committing her first offense against the RoC by leaving her character in the game unattended and allowing X to use it to spar with.


Now that is how you deal with cheaters. Call them out and let the sunlight in on the process.

Anyways, wanted to share how the people behind the "first" MMO do things in their community. I think p99 should also have its own stickied "History of Crime and Punishment" thread.

[Runningfish]

I'm assuming this is a much smaller community than P99. I seriously doubt any of the GM's have enough spare time or want to spend their time writing little blurbs about everyone who does something wrong.

[Pyrocat]

I'm assuming this is a much smaller community than P99. I seriously doubt any of the GM's have enough spare time or want to spend their time writing little blurbs about everyone who does something wrong.

If they took the time to uncover their cheating, I'm sure they can take the time to write one sentence per person, even if all of the sentences are the same (I.E. "X was caught using SEQ and has been permanently banned"). Also there's not *that* many people who would get banned anyway, it's not like a daily occurrence.

[Pudge]

"Island/Legends of Kesmai"

OMG i LOVED legends of kesmai! played it back in the day on gamestorm with my brothers and best friend.

i still have some good stories.. too long to tell here. but my wizard was pimped out, all the gear. started slow-ass training skills that weren't for my class. got him 3rd dan, and even good enough thieving that i could steal from ppl at the vault. if i got caught, i'd be like "HAHA im just a wiz im playing around"..

great game. two or three years ago i tried an emu but it had like 13 ppl online and the community frowned upon pvp and would ban ppl if they attacked

[Palemoon]

In light of the reccent banning of over 120 accounts... its obvious that a simple ban is not entirely enough to stop the cheating. Its time to bring public shame to ones self and guild into the picture, so the community will better police itself and not tolerate this behavior before it gets to the ultimate banning phase.

Implement what another very professionally run EMU does...

bring us the History of Crime and Punishement

Name them, and Shame them. For the communities sake.

[booter]

I would support a ban/punishment log like this.

[jarshale]

name and shame em

[Jedite2K11]

I played Legends of Kesmai and Darkness Falls on Gamestorm and AOL...moreso Gamestorm, I was a Level 18 Knight named JediteCW. I miss that game so much, I've tried to Emu Servers but didn't really ever get back into it. It's similiar to the grind that this game is, but the graphics obviously are much much worse...being as it is a 2D Graphical MUD. It's still an awesome game with alot of replay value...but I cant bring myself to play a 2D Graphical MUD...I'd rather play a regular MUD to be honest...I miss Darkness Falls The Crusade more than any other game in the history of gaming and wish someone would hurry up and recreate that MUD verbatium.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in about how awesome LoK was back in the day, and show my support for all those that miss and love that game! :)

[Silentone]

Do it !! ! ! !

[Autozoom]

I would love this on p99. Maybe it would scare some people away from cheating aswell. But an IP adress ban would be real nice. But it may backfire if your brother cheats and you don't.

[Mardur]

2338 topics:

http://uthgard.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=53&lang=en&jfile=viewforum.php&f=44&sid=be3494a8800fca1bd4b85865e6debbfc

[Palemoon]

^^ Ahh so another well run EMU publically anoucnes bannings too...

P99 needs this, for the community.

[Darwoth]

i played legends of kesmai, used to fill empty drake potion bottles up with poison and sell them to retards at the bank for a hefty sum, then they would promptly drink it, dirtnap and leave all their shit for me to loot.

it is the game that taught me how to think outside the box when it came to fucking with other players, guess you have to improvise when you get permabanned for having more than 4 "murder" counts

[Darwoth]

2338 topics:

http://uthgard.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=53&lang=en&jfile=viewforum.php&f=44&sid=be3494a8800fca1bd4b85865e6debbfc

Lifetime Bans

* Curse (account: eric) - Reason: Flame topics as well as long time buguse and additional spam.
* Garra, Chinory (account: gunitfan) - Reason: Speedhack and attemp to blackmail and mislead the staff.
* Thundarr (accounts: oscar7, felix7, thalasd, war10ck66) - Reason: Repeated buffbot abuse and attempt to mislead the staff.
* Nylan (account: doclass) - Reason: Insulting the community and especially European people. After talking to him he said the GM is a liar and he never said it.
* Solidus (accounts: marcopolo & icycold) - Reason: Repeatedly flame and insultings over a long period of time. Finally provocating the staff again.
* Drogar - Reason: Repeatedly flame and insultings over a long period of time. Finally provocating the staff again.
* Flamingfury/Psiho - Reason: Repeatedly flame and insultings over a long period of time. Finally insulting the staff.
* Harris/Prinzessilein/Attilah/Cyrius/Sarutobi. - Repeatedly flame and insultings over a long period of time.
* Deloor/Kalic - AoE insulting and threatening
* Dogman - Reason: Repeatedly flame and insultings over a long period of time.
* Thaevia/Balboa - Reason: Offering paid services and selling accounts


lol, dear god not the mortal sin of flaming people on the message board!

[Snaggles]

The list looks like a gameplay check-list for UO. :)

[Pudge]

i played legends of kesmai, used to fill empty drake potion bottles up with poison and sell them to retards at the bank for a hefty sum, then they would promptly drink it, dirtnap and leave all their shit for me to loot.

it is the game that taught me how to think outside the box when it came to fucking with other players, guess you have to improvise when you get permabanned for having more than 4 "murder" counts

how could you fill them with poison??

i tried to do this myself. i journeyed all teh way to that troll dungeon, the one with the real cesspool swamp right when you got downstairs.. the one where if you jumped in, you were poisoned so bad you almost immediately died. it was only 1 square. i tested my first potion, prepared with like 8 poison cure leaves and balms. how did it taste..? like water! in fact, it was exactly water! i was so sad. made that epic journey for nothing, filling up my drake potion bottles. so after that, i emailed to developers/staff at gamestorm and was like "hey, i filled a potion bottle with poison and it magically turned to water, what gives?" i might have told them about my devious plans - exactly what you described. they replied back with "we don't want to promote that kind of gameplay.."

sooo.. how did you get poison into those drake potions!????

[Palemoon]

Its called fostering a mature gamming community Darwoth.

I hope their current recruit a guide campaign nets a large pool of new GMs/Guides and they sweep in a new era of adult like mature community here.

[Palemoon]

i played legends of kesmai, used to fill empty drake potion bottles up with poison and sell them to retards at the bank for a hefty sum, then they would promptly drink it, dirtnap and leave all their shit for me to loot.

it is the game that taught me how to think outside the box when it came to fucking with other players, guess you have to improvise when you get permabanned for having more than 4 "murder" counts

You'd of been banned instantly if they reported you to a GM for that. And it was three karma points which would net you perma ban.

p.s. the true griefers would turn neutral by killing a cat or dog or something, then throw tiger or griffen figurines into the town square or temples (while staying hidden around a corner) and laugh as their now neutral tiger or griffon tore people to bits...

[Pudge]

You'd of been banned instantly if they reported you to a GM for that. And it was three karma points which would net you perma ban.

p.s. the true griefers would turn neutral by killing a cat or dog or something, then throw tiger or griffen figurines into the town square or temples (while staying hidden around a corner) and laugh as their now neutral tiger or griffon tore people to bits...

lol.. until the tiger got killed and someone just picked it up and kept it? never saw anyone doing that

i always liked those guys who kept it interesting around the square in town though

[Darwoth]

how could you fill them with poison??

i tried to do this myself. i journeyed all teh way to that troll dungeon, the one with the real cesspool swamp right when you got downstairs.. the one where if you jumped in, you were poisoned so bad you almost immediately died. it was only 1 square. i tested my first potion, prepared with like 8 poison cure leaves and balms. how did it taste..? like water! in fact, it was exactly water! i was so sad. made that epic journey for nothing, filling up my drake potion bottles. so after that, i emailed to developers/staff at gamestorm and was like "hey, i filled a potion bottle with poison and it magically turned to water, what gives?" i might have told them about my devious plans - exactly what you described. they replied back with "we don't want to promote that kind of gameplay.."

sooo.. how did you get poison into those drake potions!????



i just filled them up like normal, there was a small poison pool that i stumbled across one day and drank out of it to see what would happen, was level 12 or so at the time and it instant killed me then a bit later on after buying my first drake potion the lightbulb went off.

[Pudge]

the best was killing a guy, then NOT burning his body, but instead dragging it way outside of town. heh. remember dumping this guy in the river with a shark swimming around in it. i liked to imagine those guys calling out for help for like 40 minutes trying to get someone to res them before finally resigning himself that no help was coming

[Darwoth]

Its called fostering a mature gamming community Darwoth.

I hope their current recruit a guide campaign nets a large pool of new GMs/Guides and they sweep in a new era of adult like mature community here.

give me a break, flaming on the boards or saying something negative about europeans is grounds for any action at all let alone a ban?

a mature community would not get so butthurt over such a trivial nothing, but rather immature crybabies with paper thin skins that never learned the "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" mantra that the rest of the world learned in kindergarden.

[Pudge]

well fuck. maybe they put it in and didnt tell me! hah. i never tried it again. or maybe my poison was just too badass to bottle

[Palemoon]

lol.. until the tiger got killed and someone just picked it up and kept it? never saw anyone doing that

i always liked those guys who kept it interesting around the square in town though

Well the people who did that were already bored high level players usually, who only got their excitement in greifing other players (like Darwoth). They did not care if they lost a tiger every now and then. Figurines would break eventually on a random throw anyways.

Griefing at its core is a very selfish thing, i've dabbled in it on the rare ocassion, but as i've matured I see it for what it is. I guess some never grow out of it (Darwoth).

The one attraction of well run EMUs over pay to play games, is usually the community is very mature, self polices well, and when that fails the administrators come down like a thunderbolt on cheaters and people generally poisionous to the communities well being.

[Palemoon]

give me a break, flaming on the boards or saying something negative about europeans is grounds for any action at all let alone a ban?

a mature community would not get so butthurt over such a trivial nothing, but rather immature crybabies with paper thin skins that never learned the "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" mantra that the rest of the world learned in kindergarden.

Point me to a "mature community" that would tolerate the level of flameing, foul language, griefing, etc. that goes on here?

None. Go to the kesmai or DAOC emu and throw around a dozen "dipshits" like you do here, and tell me how that works out.

Its the difference between polite mature society, and the trailer park.

[Darwoth]

any pvp community that is not full of self righteous assholes that are far less enjoyable to be around than the worst of the worst message board douchebags is similar to this one, look at any uo emulator with a pop over a few hundred, look at the shadowbane emulator, every eq emulator i have ever played on.

the difference is that the 14 people on the shitty legends of kesmai emulator are there by invite only and are playing a game that through its entire existence was a carebear game (ie kill 3 people get permabanned, lol)

daoc is basically the first world of warcraft themepark type game to come out, and was a total piece of garbage until they release the ffa servers as such the majority of the people there are going to be from the kiddie pool and unable to handle adversity in any form.

so, your one example (barely a dozen people on a private lok server doesnt count) is a pretty shitty one.


trashtalk, rivalries and breaking one off in the other guy is a large part of what makes pvp fun and any quality pvp emulator understands this, which i assume is why the staff let shit slide on the pvp boards they would not let go on the carebear boards.


maturity is ignoring someone calling you a faggot in tells, immaturity is crying for them to be banned for doing so. guess we know where you fit in.

[Softcore PK]

Trash talk is fun to a point, but sometimes it goes way too far. I'm really hoping Red99 has a good amount of GMs that will enforce the play nice policy.

[Palemoon]

No, that kind of behavior is what destroyed communities, not "made them better". I watched it happen in Shadowbane from release till they closed their doors. In the last year it was NOTHING but constant "shit talk", flaming, etc. Was sad and poisonous, all the mature people left the game and the company went under.

And its why the biggest and best EMUs like the DAOC one linked above, throw people like you out.

I mean, you just bragged about tricking people into drinking poision to avoid a karma point in LoK so you could grief them consequence free. You are a griefer and a exploiter and people like you have slowly but surely destroyed MMO communities from the beggining till now.

And the difference between 10 years ago and now is, there are a whole lot more people just like you for some reason. We could handle you back on rallos because most of us played the game to play, not grief. These days it absolutly takes active GM support to keep the griefers/shittalkers/community well poisoners (litterally in your case), in check.

[Darwoth]

pretty sure what destroyed shadowbane was the buggy broken game, not the community calling each other shitheads.

[Palemoon]

pretty sure what destroyed shadowbane was the buggy broken game, not the community calling each other shitheads.

wrong, the game was absoutly great fun to play the first couple of years. People played politics, there was a very large and mature "lore play" (roleplay, in game actions based on the lore of their cities charter or guilds race) community, merchant towns, etc.

Despite pretty crippling bugs and random sb.exe crashes to desktops etc.

The griefers, dupers, and exploiters it what killed shadowbane. They wore the moderators down, they wore the GMs down, they wore the community down.

Im afraid the same thing will happen on red99 after being on these boards awhile and seeing /ooc in game. Which will really be a shame. The rest of us will leave and you can trade corpse camping episodes with the 30 odd VZTZ brewws.

[Darwoth]

guess like many other things you did not actually play shadowbane, i was there from launch day until a year later when the population was 20% what it once was. the decline was due entirely to bugs, crashes, rollbacks, deleted cities, dupes, instakill proc weapons, GM corruption and assorted other garbage.

game never recovered and continued its decline until it went free to play and 5000 korean players picked it up and ruined every server with a zerg previously unheard of.

[Palemoon]

guess like many other things you did not actually play shadowbane, i was there from launch day until a year later when the population was 20% what it once was. the decline was due entirely to bugs, crashes, rollbacks, deleted cities, dupes, instakill proc weapons, GM corruption and assorted other garbage.

game never recovered and continued its decline until it went free to play and 5000 korean players picked it up and ruined every server with a zerg previously unheard of.


You just said you left after one year, so please dont presume to know what went down years later.

hint: everyone became a Darwoth clone. Imagine everyone RPKing and calling each other dipshit non stop while they teabagged on corpses and took fraps of it to post.

[Darwoth]

i presume to know what happened years later due to my half dozen brief returns to the game, and unless you played on the roleplayer server your wrong, like usual.

what your failing to grasp is that the game was dead 6 months after launch, by the time i quit it was triple dead. so your talking about "what killed shadowbane" is retarded, since you apparently played a half a decade after the fact.

[Harrison]

Darwoth believes such things as:

Pacify doesn't aggro, and it is a bug that it does.
Griefing is fun.
Exploiting mechanics to grief is acceptable.

His opinions are worthless and should be thrown out without a second thought. He is pretty much the epitome of what is wrong with gaming. His enjoyment comes at the price of fucking over others. He is worthless.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I think its a good idea..

maybe not too many details on each banned account though because then people get all nitpicky about what a proper punishment should be.


Maybe just a general reason like..

10 accounts banned for position hacks

or 5 for griefing or w/e

[Pudge]

for those of you guys who don't know LoK.. that was a GAME. hardcore. when you died, the monsters looted YOU. you'd get back to where you died, and find some scraps of your shit on the floor, pick up what was left, and then go down hunting the dungeon for your own shit. find the mobs there chillin in your gear, have to slay those bastards or else another player would eventually end up with your boss loots.

when dragons killed you, depending on the type of attack, they ATE you. then your naked ass went straight to the underworld, which was a bitch and took at least an hour to get out of

[Awwalike]

luolz

[Flunklesnarkin]

for those of you guys who don't know LoK.. that was a GAME. hardcore. when you died, the monsters looted YOU. you'd get back to where you died, and find some scraps of your shit on the floor, pick up what was left, and then go down hunting the dungeon for your own shit. find the mobs there chillin in your gear, have to slay those bastards or else another player would eventually end up with your boss loots.

when dragons killed you, depending on the type of attack, they ATE you. then your naked ass went straight to the underworld, which was a bitch and took at least an hour to get out of

Yes free for all pvp with full loot can be fun.. the only problem is it has a very limited population.

and it usually ends up that the higher levels sit around and gank the lower levels till they give up and quit.

bottom line.. great if you get in at start... not so much if you dont and can't afford to spend 16 hours a day to stay on top.

Not that im against the ruleset... i just think if there was enough interest in those types of games.. things like rift would have done well.

[Ceros]

I think it's a bad idea to out banned players. There are other reasons I can think of, but here are three for now:

1. I'm not sure that the current staff nor future staff here are 100% infallible. It would unfathomably unfair to those wrongly detected of cheating to have their reputations potentially ruined for all games forever -- and retroactively.

2. It gives staff here too much power to deliver retribution beyond the boundaries of this game. They seem like decent people, but will they always be? Are they completely beyond corruption?

3. The internet never forgets. Everyone makes mistakes in life. Most of us (in life) show the aptitude to learn from them. I think everyone deserves a chance at a clean slate.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I don't make mizstakes

[Felwithemagi]

We played on GEnie. * of Kesmai wasn't the first of anything and certainly won't be the last although it was a great experience for us. Kesmai had many great titles and we remember them with fondness...

However, I do support your effort of calling out cheaters, but I question how effective it will be long term in dissuading others from doing likewise.

[Klyre]

I think it's a bad idea to out banned players. There are other reasons I can think of, but here are three for now:

1. I'm not sure that the current staff nor future staff here are 100% infallible. It would unfathomably unfair to those wrongly detected of cheating to have their reputations potentially ruined for all games forever -- and retroactively.

2. It gives staff here too much power to deliver retribution beyond the boundaries of this game. They seem like decent people, but will they always be? Are they completely beyond corruption?

3. The internet never forgets. Everyone makes mistakes in life. Most of us (in life) show the aptitude to learn from them. I think everyone deserves a chance at a clean slate.

Everyone who was caught cheating the last time around did get a second chance, to be caught cheating again is kinda losing my capacity for forgiveness.

I would't be bothered either way post the names or not. However it doesn't matter, that charecter is gone and won't be back so why the need to post? Unless you know that persons other Char. and want to shun them.

[Basso]

give me a break, flaming on the boards or saying something negative about europeans is grounds for any action at all let alone a ban?

a mature community would not get so butthurt over such a trivial nothing, but rather immature crybabies with paper thin skins that never learned the "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" mantra that the rest of the world learned in kindergarden.

/thread

But seriously, if you can't take an insult, and believe playing the cry to gm game over any insult is fostering a mature community, you lack any sort of balls or maturity, and are as far from an authority on the subject as possible.

[mwatt]

On posting the names of cheaters: I don't think it would make much of a positive difference. On the other hand, people of Darworth's caliber might actually like the notariety.

Darworth's attitude and post content are a nice example not only of the ugly side of PVP, but of the ugly side of humanity as well.

[casdegere]

Unless you know that persons other Char. and want to shun them.

^This

[jamsen]

I would love this on p99. Maybe it would scare some people away from cheating aswell. But an IP adress ban would be real nice. But it may backfire if your brother cheats and you don't.

Uhm, while IP addresses are fairly persistent they are not guaranteed to be permanent by your ISP. It'd really suck if your real-life neighbor got banned for cheating and then you wouldn't be able to play after the next power outage or reboot of the cable/DSL modem got "his" old DHCP lease (e.g. IP address) on your cable/DSL modem.

In the almost two years that I've played P'99 off and on my cable modem has had at least 6 or 7 IP addresses assigned to it...

Just sayin' ...

[Flunklesnarkin]

Uhm, while IP addresses are fairly persistent they are not guaranteed to be permanent by your ISP. It'd really suck if your real-life neighbor got banned for cheating and then you wouldn't be able to play after the next power outage or reboot of the cable/DSL modem got "his" old DHCP lease (e.g. IP address) on your cable/DSL modem.

In the almost two years that I've played P'99 off and on my cable modem has had at least 6 or 7 IP addresses assigned to it...

Just sayin' ...

That happens but its rare to get the exact same ip that was banned at random..

I did see it happen once before tho and the guy called up the game company and realized his account wasn't banned just that ip so they fixed it.

[Kevlar]

dikumud was the shit. I used to play on Perilous Realms server. Its where Brad stole all the ideas for EQ.