The serious itemloot poll

[greatdane]

Since the other poll is a joke, let's try one that doesn't attempt to manipulate people's votes.

Itemloot - yes/no?

[Silikten]

it all depends on how it will affect the population...as many threads stated. Most people don't really care. We just want numbers and pvp.

[Not_Kazowi]

i played all instances of VZTZ, including the two item loot eras. While it is fun and a lot more wild west like, its just not viable. It is too hardcore of a scenario for most people to enjoy/have fun.

So no, no item loot. It just does not help the population or entice many players to come to the server.

[Hobby]

Restricted Item loot of a couple items rather than the entire inventory is a nice compromise....I don't see what would be wrong with that as item loot is still in, yet you don't lose everything you worked for.

Anyways, since obviously that isn't an option...i'll vote for no item loot, but i'd play either way.

[greatdane]

I always take itemloot to mean the traditional "one of the victim's items, not their primary/secondary slot". Looting an entire player corpse is an absurd notion. Even one item per death causes a number of problems, though. I won't go into another long-winded post about each of those problems, but the point is that the actual Everquest game isn't designed for itemloot to make sense.

If you gained levels and items through PvP, and if obtaining a good item didn't generally take such a huge amount of time and effort, I'd be all for itemloot. It would fit right in if the PvP game had something like:

- 10 zones with a base in each
- 3 hardcoded teams
- No real PvE game except maybe a few mob camps so you had the option of leveling alone in case you're online when there's no PvP at all
- Each base can be conquered by a team. Members of any given team are allowed to cash in x amount of items per RL week based on how they held bases that week, with a minimum of something like 3 items per week so you aren't completely fucked if your team is weak
- XP is gained primarily from PvP, with a few caveats such as no XP from someone you've already killed in the last 30 minutes

That's the kind of environment where itemloot would be great. When the itemization source is in the PvP gameplay and you aren't completely fucked if you're the underdog, the concept of winning/losing items through PvP is perfect. Not when levels and items are obtained exclusively through PvE and many classes can end up incapable of really doing PvE by losing their items in PvP. With a system that feeds items into the game on a regular basis, people - and especially players who are new to PvP or play weak classes - won't be so fiercely discouraged from participating in PvP. To counter mudflation, it could have a kind of tribute system as seen later in EQ where you could turn items in for an amount of points, and those points could then be spent on more powerful (but still droppable and/or temporary) items to gain a compromisable advantage if you do well in PvP.

I'd play the shit out of a server like that, and if I knew how to make a custom server and had the means to run it, I'd even make it myself. In classic Everquest, however, I don't think itemloot has a place.

[Lasher]

could of just said you voted no

[greatdane]

I get carried away.

[Billbike]

I think the blue players are overcompensating to hide their true fear of pvp.

And if they ruin the server with it, they will just go back to p99 blue.

[Mardur]

I like item loot, but it has 2 serious consequences:

1) Lower population
2) MQ advantage

What I mean by #2, is that players that run MQ have an advantage on item loot servers. Not only do they have an advantage in general, but it's way too easy to hit a hot button and automagically have all your droppable gear bagged. Essentially what this becomes is no item loot for those running MQ and item loot for everyone else.

So I begrudgingly vote No. Coin loot - yes. Exp loss - no.

Edit: Altergate kind of solved #2 with an interesting system, though. A modified Altergate system where on death your loot window shows 8 random items, including bagged and your killer can choose one of those 8, would be pretty cool. The only problem is that classic purists wouldn't go for it.

[Galacticus]

Lets keep things serious in here guys...

[greatdane]

I don't think the MQ issue can really be used as an argument against itemloot, to be fair. That's reaching a bit. I have to trust that the devs can prevent MQ, and even if that's a little optimistic and a few might get away with cheating, it's not really something that should be counted as a factor when determining the server's ruleset.

[Galacticus]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4378/stuartscottseyetz2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/301/stuartscottseyetz2.jpg/)

[greatdane]

Who the hell is that?

[Papaver]

p99 red without item loot is p99 blue played by a bunch of scared little kids that accidentally turned in their book of discord.

i never thought id see so many people crying for a hardcore p99 red server while simultaneously crying not to lose their banded armors. whys everyone so scared? its just pixels.

p99 red without item loot should be more appropriately called p99 pink. gaping wide pussy pink.

[greatdane]

VZTZ was at its most popular without itemloot. I guess they were pussy bluebies?

[Lawler]

p99 red without item loot is p99 blue played by a bunch of scared little kids that accidentally turned in their book of discord.

i never thought id see so many people crying for a hardcore p99 red server while simultaneously crying not to lose their banded armors. whys everyone so scared? its just pixels.

p99 red without item loot should be more appropriately called p99 pink. gaping wide pussy pink.

Item loot may be better, however that doesn't mean its better for server population.

[Papaver]

VZTZ was at its most popular without itemloot. I guess they were pussy bluebies?

i played vztz. and yes, many of them were.

[Kelsar]

wasn't this already decided? You nerds suck at life. Let the Rogean do what he's going to do. At this point, I believe we'll all be happy with any PvP server.

[Papaver]

Item loot may be better, however that doesn't mean its better for server population.

people said and continue to say the exact same thing about changes made to 99. in fact as i recall, a large portion of the community said the same exact thing in reference to p99 rolling classic in many respects.

as it turns out (now that i believe it has made itself apparent), people like a challenging game with alot of risk. lack of risk makes the reward pointless.

[greatdane]

None of the blue99 changes completely turned gameplay upside down and you already knew that the majority were in favor of anything canonically classic.

[Lawler]

people said and continue to say the exact same thing about changes made to 99. in fact as i recall, a large portion of the community said the same exact thing in reference to p99 rolling classic in many respects.

as it turns out (now that i believe it has made itself apparent), people like a challenging game with alot of risk. lack of risk makes the reward pointless.

Item loot is a much more significant change for blue players then the random changes p99 has. I agree with you about the challenge, but we are in the minority, if we want a decently populated server item loot cant be in.

[Billbike]

Ok. Bring out r99 with item loot. I don't want to be a pussy.

Just be ready for tons of rage quits and a casters majority.

My main reason for not being pro item loot is that it has more of a benifit for a few select classes. Casters will make up atleast 50% of the pop. Melees will be but a novelty.

[greatdane]

Casters will make up atleast 50% of the pop

You might wanna rephrase that to convey what you actually meant. Caster classes make up 50% of the classes, so it's not like 50% of the pop would be surprising somehow. I'm pretty sure it's more like 70%+ on blue99 just because casters are easier to play. You mean casters would be the overwhelming majority with a huge advantage.

[Mardur]

I have to trust that the devs can prevent MQ

That's reaching a bit.

[greatdane]

You're doing it wrong. If you want to intentionally misquote someone to ridicule them because you have nothing more valuable to contribute with, you have to actually fabricate a quote that conveys the opposite of what they said. Failing to understand the what was said by person you misquote and thus producing a quote that has no context or relevance doesn't accomplish much.

[Mardur]

The devs may seriously curtail third party program use, but will not stop it all completely, guaranteed. Any sort of advantage given to a small cheating minority = bad. I'm right. You're wrong. I'm sorry.

The only point of my post was to point out the irony of you telling me I'm reaching a bit, immediately before saying there will be 100% no cheating on R99.

[greatdane]

I didn't say there wouldn't be any cheating. I even said there probably would. The actual point is that it should be possible to keep it at a relatively low level, and that we can't really take things like that into consideration when determining (insofar as Rogean will hopefully care at least a little bit about what the players think) the server's ruleset. Note that I'm starkly against itemloot, but arguments have to be valid and reasonable. If we start getting into what cheaters can or cannot do, we can pull in just about anything as a pro/anti argument. So, for the sake of this argument, we have to trust that the admins can "prevent cheating" or we might as well argue that we should have non-classic follow-the-wavy-line tracking because cheaters will have even better tracking.

[Not_Kazowi]

p99 red without item loot is p99 blue played by a bunch of scared little kids that accidentally turned in their book of discord.

i never thought id see so many people crying for a hardcore p99 red server while simultaneously crying not to lose their banded armors. whys everyone so scared? its just pixels.

p99 red without item loot should be more appropriately called p99 pink. gaping wide pussy pink.

I played VZTZ before and longer then about 99.9% of everyone who ever logged on that server. Now that I put that out there, I loved item loot and thought it was a super good time. It definitely had its pluses but it comes with its negatives as well. After playing both item loot and no item loot, I definitely will say that no item loot is the smarter decision for a realistic and successful server atmosphere.

I remember when item loot was in and I would slay someone, if they did anything or said something to piss me off I would blind them mid looting their corpse and slay them again so I could loot a 2nd item, or do things like delete my FBSS just to loot someone elses to piss them off.

It was a lot of fun but its just not realistic, saying that people are bluebie pussies just because they are making the logical decision to be against item loot is stupid. It's like saying sex is 10x better without a condom, well no shit but it just has its negative repercussions (granted she isnt taking birth control).

Item loot just creates a FPS EQ server with a super high turn over rate, and also attracts the worst of the worst when it comes to griefing. The comment about MQ auto bagging is VERY true as well, I didn't realize that was possible till way after item loot was over when someone told me. Anyways, who were you on VZTZ? Did you play after item loot? If so does that make you a pussy bluebie? just sayin' dawg

[Lasher]

Item loot is putting a massive turd in the punch bowl

[istealbicycles]

p99 red without item loot is p99 blue played by a bunch of scared little kids that accidentally turned in their book of discord.

i never thought id see so many people crying for a hardcore p99 red server while simultaneously crying not to lose their banded armors. whys everyone so scared? its just pixels.

p99 red without item loot should be more appropriately called p99 pink. gaping wide pussy pink.

lol whatever. item loot is bad and you would know this if you played on a server with it. listen to rexx he made sense in his post please

[Aenor]

p99 red without item loot should be more appropriately called p99 pink.

You misunderstand. I'm not worried about losing "my" banded armor since my guild will be producing full sets within 24 hours of launch. I'm afraid that alot of bluebies won't come play on the server because they are afraid of losing "their" banded armers.

[Titanuk]

You misunderstand. I'm not worried about losing "my" banded armor since my guild will be producing full sets within 24 hours of launch. I'm afraid that alot of bluebies won't come play on the server because they are afraid of losing "their" banded armers.

can i join your pirate crew?

[Aenor]

can i join your pirate crew?

Mass invites going out soon.

[Titanuk]

what class must i play and who is are emperor

[Tajin]

KEEP ITEM LOOT.... POPULATION WILL FAIL WITHOUT IT

[Mynxx]

For those that are voting no on no item loot, stop it damnit! This is a classic feature from EQ1 and should be treated as such!

[Galacticus]

What a joke. Seriously.

[Prahadigm24]

For those that are voting no on no item loot, stop it damnit! This is a classic feature from EQ1 and should be treated as such!

Is it? As far as I know, there was more than 1 classic PVP server... ;)

[Robben]

I'm personally for item loot. Me and 3 of my friends will be rolling new characters on the PvP server and this exact feature is what enticed a couple of them.

I think it adds a whole lot of risk to the PvP aspect and makes thinks more interesting.

We'll play either way, but I'd really like to see some form of item/coin loot implemented.

I can assure you that I won't be on here bitching when someone takes my gear. That's part of the game, don't like it? Don't play.

[Billbike]

The blue players dont care. When itemloot strangles the server, they will just ride back over to p99. This is our home, the only real pvp server. Nevermind that nearly ALL of the legit red players voted NO ITEM LOOT, because we've been there and done that, and we know that it dosnt work in the long run.

[SaveTheSack]

The server population won't take a hit if item loot is off. It will if it's on.

Just sayin'

[Mafakka]

I would be happy with worn item loot, vs. bag loot. I'd like the option to carry a Manastone around in my inventory if I wanted without the risk of it getting ganked.

Just bag your shit, or learn how to pvp.

Otherwise, coin loot ftw.

For the devs: The question is, will more people quit with coin loot, or will more people quit with item loot?

[Billbike]

After the blue players springbreak with itemloot down on the PVP server, it will be back to the safe p99 grind for them. Meanwhile we will be left with a server of naked necros and mages that exploit the broken concept of itemloot.

GJ keeping it classic, well atleast your version of classic.

[Yukahwa]

Inventory items not in bags are lootable so you're going to have to be careful with your manastone anyways.

[Tajin]

YES TO ITEM LOOT.... POPULATION WILL FAIL W/O IT!!!! The rest of u pussies need to man up, get down or lay down...

[Harrison]

I think spamming your opinions made of fail will surely sway their judgement.

I mean, it's not like there's mountains of evidence against the popularity of item loot or anything....................................

Oh wait...

[Nirgon]

Hopefully losing an item fair and square will force a nerd rager to leave rather than stick around and drive the staff crazy with rule lawyering because they can't take it.

[Crenshinabon]

I think the majority of people will try it item loot or no.
I see no reason to at least not try it out and have an in game poll or something for chars 10+ if its staying or not a bit in.
People who are against it I doubt have ever tried it and I think might be swayed with real experiences. RZ was considered best pvp ever for a reason, until it was crapped up by Sony.

People will play for classic, bug free, anti hack, pvp.

[Billbike]

Hopefully losing an item fair and square will force a nerd rager to leave rather than stick around and drive the staff crazy with rule lawyering because they can't take it.

This is proof that r99 is just an experiment for Blubies and that they don't care about the long term population of r99. Because when it fails, they will go back to their home.

[Zuranthium]

This poll is far too black-and-white.

You should be able to loot 1 item per kill, but you shouldn't be able to loot the same player more than once in a 24 hour period.

Without item loot, the server becomes too much about who is able to rush to 50 the quickest and obtain the best gear. There needs to always be risk of losing something important, so that the focus is on actual PvP and player ingenuity. Item loot especially needs to be there to prevent ridiculous levels of twinking.

[Billbike]

The concept that nothing is worth killing unless it drops loot is a blubie idea.

Pvp solves disputes, and creates them. Killing is fun, but losing items makes people avoid fights.

Itemloot just makes the server a casters paradise.

Once the great blubie exodus has passed, us red players will be left with the foul enviroment y'all voted to create, through ignorance.

[Galacticus]

The concept that nothing is worth killing unless it drops loot is a blubie idea.

Pvp solves disputes, and creates them. Killing is fun, but losing items makes people avoid fights.

Itemloot just makes the server a casters paradise.

Once the great blubie exodus has passed, us red players will be left with the foul enviroment y'all voted to create, through ignorance.

yea

[Macedon]

honestly with the population the server is going to have, i don't think item loot is going to benefit in anyway, and it really isn't necessary for pvp, just have coin loot, and that's it, you still get the shiny pennies from your kill :) and the satisfaction knowing you face roll'd that bitch.

[Humerox]

The concept that nothing is worth killing unless it drops loot is a blubie idea.

So - in effect - those who prefer a more hardcore style of PvP are blue, and those that want to risk no pixels are red.

Got it.

[Zuranthium]

The concept that nothing is worth killing unless it drops loot is a blubie idea.

Except that's not the concept being put forth. The concept is that the game skews too much towards people who PvE grind if you don't have item loot. Once the players who zerg rush to 50 and for the best items achieve that goal, then they start to be able to control everything because, even if they aren't they skilllful, they are far better equipped and that automatically wins much of the time. The players themselves need to have the ability to balance out the grinders/twinkers to create a dynamic PvP environment.

As has been said, the most popular PvP Everquest server back in the day had the 1-item loot rule. I'm proposing a less harsh version of that (you can only loot the same player for an item once per day).

[Bockscar]

The concept is that the game skews too much towards people who PvE grind if you don't have item loot. Once the players who zerg rush to 50 and for the best items achieve that goal, then they start to be able to control everything

This isn't Velious. The people who hit level 50 first won't just gain some huge advantage that can never be overcome. Almost all the resist gear can be traded and a lot of it drops from level 30ish mobs, it's pretty much just Tranix crown and diamond jewellery that you can't get while leveling or from camping a few pretty trivial mobs in lguk.

the most popular PvP Everquest server back in the day had the 1-item loot rule

RZ was only really the most popular PvP server because it was the only one available from the start, so everybody who wanted PvP started there. The next servers only got the rerollers and latecomers, everyone else had already got started on RZ and many didn't want to move to a new server. You'll also notice that itemloot was removed from all of the servers that had it and has never been attempted since in any MMORPG because of how much it fucks up the game.

As has been pointed out by various people, the real PvP is about zone control and the prestige of winning fights. Looting items is not a crucial part of any of it, and it completely skews the PvP environment due to how many people will avoid fighting, how many will play naked casters, how people will behave when the prospect of losing or winning items comes into the picture, and how it screws over the already disadvantaged classes. People act as if there won't be PvP without itemloot. It has been proven time and time again that there'll be more without it, not only because people can PvP more freely when they don't stand to lose their stuff but also because itemloot tends to reduce the potential population size. It shouldn't need to be mentioned again, but VZTZ grew from like 40 to 200 players when they removed itemloot.

Itemloot is just too much for most players. Call them bluebies or whatever, but they'll make up the bulk of the server. The hardcore minority will not sustain red99 alone. As for twinks, the hyperbole is useless because twinks were never a problem that early and has never been a problem on any emu server because we don't have the thousands of players that live servers had. Even if a few twinks do pop up, that'll still be far less discouraging for new players than the constant risk of losing their gear.

Itemloot doesn't work, doubly so for an emu server.

[Billbike]

Elaboration:

On a blue server, players kill MOBs to get loots. That is the concept. They apply the same concept to their theoretical idea of PVP. To them, without itemloot, pvp is pointless. That is why they vote for itemloot.

And if Rallos was so great, why didn't they make the other servers with the same rules?

[nilbog]

if Rallos was so great, why didn't they make the other servers with the same rules?

Tears. Player complaints changed a lot of things about EQ.

[Bockscar]

So if many customers doesn't like a product, it's not a bad product, they're just crying bitches who can't handle it?

[returnofahipster]

I dont think item loot would reduce the server population. I do think item loot would make more people roll less gear dependent classes though. At this point lets just take whatever these very kind and selfless developers will give to us without complaint. They are pretty successful when it comes to administrating a server so I'm near certain whatever they put out will appeal to and appease most of us. Thanks again Project 1999 Development TEAM!

[nilbog]

So if many customers doesn't like a product, it's not a bad product, they're just crying bitches who can't handle it?

In Everquest, yes.

Are you seriously going to vouch for the eq customer base of opinion?

[Amuk]

I vouch for the EQ customer base opinion.

[Goobles]

So, there were 2 racewar servers with coin loot vs 1 item loot red server.

I think racewar coin loot won that battle.

Coin loot it is.

[mimixownzall]

I think that's a little harsh saying they were crying bitches who can't handle it.

EQ and mmos were relatively new. They were trying new things.

If you owned a burger joint and only offered french fries because you don't like them (for this example), but you had a huge customer base requesting the option for onion rings, would you call them little bitches and just not offer it? No, just cause you don't like onion rings (for this example), doesn't mean everyone else is that way.

[valithteezee]

Item loot is totally a novelty factor. It's cool and it may even bring population up for a little while, but it's not sustainable like other's have said. I'm pretty sure that's why Rallos Zek ALWAYS had a lower population than the other pvp servers. It's not that it wasn't fun or cool to loot somebody's corpse, but over time I don't think a lot of players want that dynamic.

[Bockscar]

So, there were 2 racewar servers with coin loot vs 1 item loot red server.

I think racewar coin loot won that battle.

Coin loot it is.

They all had itemloot in the beginning, except Sullon Zek. Itemloot was removed from all of them due to player dissatisfaction.

[Amuk]

Back of my mind I want item loot to see how bad the top dogs gona shit all over the blue horde and completely ruin the dream of red99.

[gloinz]

Back of my mind I want item loot to see how bad the top dogs gona shit all over the blue horde and completely ruin the dream of red99.

ya this would be the only good part of item loot

[Pudge]

please. i really hope item loot isnt still a real consideration after all the ppl who played pvp for years on emu have said it doesnt work : /

if you do go with it, please limit it severely - be creative. you can use many means to limit lewts. no drop/lore/magic, "only stackable items" "only jewelry" etc..

[Zuranthium]

This isn't Velious. The people who hit level 50 first won't just gain some huge advantage that can never be overcome. Almost all the resist gear can be traded and a lot of it drops from level 30ish mobs, it's pretty much just Tranix crown and diamond jewellery that you can't get while leveling or from camping a few pretty trivial mobs in lguk.

The people who hit level 50 first will be able to control the most important drop areas since they grinded there before others. They will be able to access the equipment faster than the people who didn't grind.

Having a weapon that does 2x as much damage as another weapon is certainly a huge advantage. Especially when the twinking starts and there are level 20 melee characters running around that demolish regular level 25/26 players. It's not fun to play the game when you're automatically at that kind of disadvantage. Twinking needs to be discouraged and people being able to take equipment off others is the answer (unless the devs want to code in level restrictions for equipment, which I doubt they have the time for).

[Galacticus]

The people who hit level 50 first will be able to control the most important drop areas since they grinded there before others. They will be able to access the equipment faster than the people who didn't grind.

Having a weapon that does 2x as much damage as another weapon is certainly a huge advantage. Especially when the twinking starts and there are level 20 melee characters running around that demolish regular level 25/26 players. It's not fun to play the game when you're automatically at that kind of disadvantage. Twinking needs to be discouraged and people being able to take equipment off others is the answer (unless the devs want to code in level restrictions for equipment, which I doubt they have the time for).

I think you're scared.

[jilena]

The people who hit level 50 first will be able to control the most important drop areas since they grinded there before others. They will be able to access the equipment faster than the people who didn't grind.

Having a weapon that does 2x as much damage as another weapon is certainly a huge advantage. Especially when the twinking starts and there are level 20 melee characters running around that demolish regular level 25/26 players. It's not fun to play the game when you're automatically at that kind of disadvantage. Twinking needs to be discouraged and people being able to take equipment off others is the answer (unless the devs want to code in level restrictions for equipment, which I doubt they have the time for).

So basically what you are saying is that people who grind up and get better gear are more detrimental to the server than people who run around naked taking gear from the people who farmed it in the first place with no risk to themselves?

[Bockscar]

The people who hit level 50 first will be able to control the most important drop areas since they grinded there before others. They will be able to access the equipment faster than the people who didn't grind.

No they won't. They'll just be the only ones camping that shit until the rest of the playerbase catches up, giving them a head start of maybe a couple of weeks or whatever. There's nothing you can acquire that easily that'll give you a significant advantage over others, certainly not to the extent that you can just automatically keep whatever content you're the first to reach. Control will be held by those with the most numbers, the best PvPers or the most time to devote to it (usually a couple of guilds will have all three) and not by whoever got there first. We're not exploring undiscovered territory and claiming it in the name of the king by shoving a flag into the ground. So someone gets to play in lguk first, big fucking woop, they'll have two FBSS, a froggie crown and a yak by the time others get there. That won't automatically let them keep lguk.

Having a weapon that does 2x as much damage as another weapon is certainly a huge advantage. Especially when the twinking starts and there are level 20 melee characters running around that demolish regular level 25/26 players. It's not fun to play the game when you're automatically at that kind of disadvantage. Twinking needs to be discouraged and people being able to take equipment off others is the answer (unless the devs want to code in level restrictions for equipment, which I doubt they have the time for).

Oh, come on. You don't know shit, do you? The best non-raid weapon you can get is a 25dmg warrior 2hander, a 21dmg war/sk/pal 2hander, or and 8dmg 1hander. You can get 20dmg 2handers in SolA, RunnyEye, even a level 20 quest gives you an 18dmg 2hander. You can get 6-7dmg 1handers in any number of places. There's very little difference in most of the gear you get from high-level zones, it's all about the resist gear and most of that is either crafted or comes from mid-level shit.

What are you so terrified of twinks for anyway? Do you not understand how ass-backwards it is to implement a system that the majority is against and that has been proven time and time again to not really work, just to counter some hypothetical twink problem that has never been a real issue? There were no twinks on VZTZ, it's a live-server phenomenon from later expansions. There are not enough players on emu servers for low-level PvP to have any real level of activity, the gear that spawned the ubertwinks doesn't exist yet, and pretty much everyone will be occupied PvPing on their mains. Quit with the twinking hyperbole. It wasn't a big deal on live, and it's even less of a problem on emu servers. It's even reasonable to suggest that itemloot will promote the griefing mentality which is what twinking essentially stems from. If someone has the spare resources to deck out a powerful twink and is enough of an assclown to run around griefing genuine newbies in Crushbone, do you think the prospect of being able to also loot their gear is going to deter said assclown or just make it even more lulz for him to grief? I'm assuming you'll be the target as well, seeing as you're so fucking horrified of it and clearly aren't much of a PvPer as evidenced by your complete lack of understanding of it.

[Yukahwa]

Mainly it is more fun with item loot I think thats the most important part.