Why keep exp gain at p99 or Classic rates?

[Galacticus]

(NOTE: This is almost the same discussion as xp penalty for pvp death, which I am for. Yet the gap between pvp death and pve gain is what I am trying to discuss here.)

I see lots of people saying we should have slow xp rates, but my question is what good reasons do you have?

Is not the main focus of this server to pvp?

Why is it an issue how fast people progress through pve content if the main focus would be to pvp on this server?

If you want the "classic" super slow leveling experience, why wouldn't you just play on the p99 pve server?

What does the rate at which you level even have to do with pvp anyway?

This seems like a subtle greifing mechanic to me. The longer you have to level, the more it sucks when you die for pvp. People are more happy, the more you lost. Why promote that?

Sure you might argue that there needs to be a penalty for dieing in pvp, and I agree, but the larger that gap is, the less people are willing to pvp because the more they will lose.

I would rather have 10 battles with someone and lose a half a bubble of exp rather then have 2 battles with them and lose the same amount. If you take that scenario, at the end of those bouts, you are more likely to go for fight 11, rather then the third fight just because that third fight would cost you so much more exp then the 11th.

This would be most important for classes that cannot solo. Barely anyone will play them just because it is 20x harder then rolling a druid or a necro who can solo with ease.

A warrior monk or rogue can be a good pvp class, but if they cant pve to balance things out or find security in a guild or something like that, they are going to have the roughest time.

I want people to play rogues and monks and warriors, they are fun to pvp with and against. But there will be less of an incentive with slow xp rate gains.

Another thing that alot of people say is that they want to pvp at lower levels, that those are really fun times to pvp. I agree, it is very fun. But really what is stopping you from having another character that is level 20 for you to kill people around your level?

Being realistic, we wont all stay at level 20 forever, and eventually you will level out of the range to kill people at that level or they will out level you or whatever, it wont stay like that unless you make that alt that is created for pvping at that level.

Another issue that comes up is that people don't want to rush through content or miss content. Yet this is entirely up to them what content they level on and what they do with their character. If they rush to the top thats their choice.

The higher level you get, the more powerful you become. People like being powerful. It keeps them comming back to their characters. If you sit down for hours and hours just to get all that erased by a a few unfair pvp fights you can easily feel like you are wasting your time. Thats just not fun.

Almost everyone ends up racing to the top level because thats where the most fun is, the most power and ability your character has. Don't be foolish to think having a slower xp rate is somehow changing this.

People with lots of time to exp will get there first with or without a leveling bonus.

Don't punish or shun the more casual people because they want to pvp more then pve. Keep those extra people who hate leveling and want to pvp so that the population can be as big as possible.

The main reason to have the exp bonus is to keep people playing when times get rough, and they will.

[Crenshinabon]

Dude, you are like the only one who feels like this among a sea of people who are sick of the xp increase and want something truly classic and epic. Have you even seen for the past years the vztz box with increased xp that shut down? Other teams turn.

Wall of text is wrong.
As far as xp loss on pvp goes, its still not as bad as losing a bad ass item. You get griefed a few times, you lose some xp, you log for a while. Same thing as dying in a tough zone basically. I do not care if xp loss is in or not, but i would not mind if it was.

[JayDee]

While I do agree that slow exp should not be implemented in conjunction with receiving experience loss from pvp deaths, I will say that slow leveling has many benefits.

1) low-mid end pvp
2) higher activity in otherwise desolate zones on p99 like gfay
3) deterrent to griefers/trainers (more to be lost resulting from bans etc)
4) sense of accomplishment to reach a particular level instead of the vztz model where you just pack 8 bags full of spells and grind through 1-50 in a day

list goes on and frankly I don't think this is worth discussing since it is already a foregone conclusion at this point.

You might as well argue for an /insta max level server if you are against leveling. Have fun being alone on that server.

[Smedy]

While I do agree that slow exp should not be implemented in conjunction with receiving experience loss from pvp deaths, I will say that slow leveling has many benefits.

1) low-mid end pvp
2) higher activity in otherwise desolate zones on p99 like gfay
3) deterrent to griefers/trainers (more to be lost resulting from bans etc)
4) sense of accomplishment to reach a particular level instead of the vztz model where you just pack 8 bags full of spells and grind through 1-50 in a day

list goes on and frankly I don't think this is worth discussing since it is already a foregone conclusion at this point.

You might as well argue for an /insta max level server if you are against leveling. Have fun being alone on that server.

+1

[Galacticus]

While I do agree that slow exp should not be implemented in conjunction with receiving experience loss from pvp deaths, I will say that slow leveling has many benefits.

1) low-mid end pvp
2) higher activity in otherwise desolate zones on p99 like gfay
3) deterrent to griefers/trainers (more to be lost resulting from bans etc)
4) sense of accomplishment to reach a particular level instead of the vztz model where you just pack 8 bags full of spells and grind through 1-50 in a day

list goes on and frankly I don't think this is worth discussing since it is already a foregone conclusion at this point.

You might as well argue for an /insta max level server if you are against leveling. Have fun being alone on that server.


I am not in favor of a huge exp boost. Just trying to figure out why things should be slowed down in the pve part of the game, for pvp. Like I said they seem unrelated.

1. low end mid lvl pvp will still happen, but most likely less, the more xp there is to lose. If you were xping for the last 3 hours and some dude 7 lvls above you zones in, or some guy conning red starts attacking you, your more likely to run away then to fight, based on how much you are going to lose.

2. Higher activity in those zones when? When 3 months goes by and everyone has leveled out of gfay it wont help the population, even if the server has -50% xp penalty for everyone. Once people move on they are moved on. Only new characters will replenish those zones or people with incentives to make new characters.

3. You think that someone who spends 240 hours vs 300 hours is less likely to cheat? Cheaters are cheaters, trainers are trainers, no amount of investment by them is going to deter them from breaking those rules. Especially if they dont think they will get caught. Just look at all the level 60s who cheated, how much time do you think went into their characters?

4. Im not saying anyone should grind to 50 in a day. Sense of acomplishment for pve levels gained while not pvping is a pve acomplisment, one you can earn on a pve server.

Getting max level on a pvp server is an acomplishment but more impotantly its all about who you can kill at that level. Eventually everyone gets there, what you do at that level is what counts.

[Tombom]

did not read, but you are wrong.

[Galacticus]

Dude, you are like the only one who feels like this among a sea of people who are sick of the xp increase and want something truly classic and epic. Have you even seen for the past years the vztz box with increased xp that shut down? Other teams turn.

Wall of text is wrong.
As far as xp loss on pvp goes, its still not as bad as losing a bad ass item. You get griefed a few times, you lose some xp, you log for a while. Same thing as dying in a tough zone basically. I do not care if xp loss is in or not, but i would not mind if it was.

Yea I saw it shut down, I played on it. I think the majority of people wouldn't say "faster xp rate" would be the downfall of VZTZ in any form. There were bigger issues with that server.

Maybe you are right and the majority of people want the pve side of things to be as hard as possible.

But thats what I guess my post is about. Why, and is that good for the server in the long run.

Personally I don't care. I will level and play on this server with the worst exp rate imaginable, I would play on this server if my characters first death was his only death and couldn't respawn.

With the soul purpose of having populated pvp server, I want us to appeal to the thing that almost everyone who plays on a pvp server is interested in, pvp. Pve is secondary to most who play on a pvp server I would imagine.

[Galacticus]

did not read, but you are wrong.

I bet you have more important things to do. Like coloring books and nap time.

[Tombom]

I bet you have more important things to do. Like coloring books and nap time.

just woke up from nap time bro, gotta store up on sleep hours when the red99 launch comes I will have no time for sleep with the insane grind ahead of us all. Brace yoself

[Galacticus]

just woke up from nap time bro, gotta store up on sleep hours when the red99 launch comes I will have no time for sleep with the insane grind ahead of us all. Brace yoself

http://preview3.accesshollywood.com/content/images/42/230x306/42824_roger-ebert-access-blurb.jpg

Come at me bro

[Rushmore]

I still would like someone to give me a good explanation advocating xp loss on pvp death?

I'm against it....turn me please

[Tombom]

http://preview3.accesshollywood.com/content/images/42/230x306/42824_roger-ebert-access-blurb.jpg

Come at me bro

Awww here it goes

[Tombom]

I still would like someone to give me a good explanation advocating xp loss on pvp death?

I'm against it....turn me please

This thread is more about the overall xp rate than pvp xp loss. That is a whole nother debate. Personally I am okay either way with the xp loss in pvp, we all know you lose time when killed in pvp and that will be enough to slow people down who are constantly shit on, no reason to drain their bar as well but w/e i can go either way i guess.

[Bardalicious]

While I do agree that slow exp should not be implemented in conjunction with receiving experience loss from pvp deaths, I will say that slow leveling has many benefits.

1) low-mid end pvp
2) higher activity in otherwise desolate zones on p99 like gfay
3) deterrent to griefers/trainers (more to be lost resulting from bans etc)
4) sense of accomplishment to reach a particular level instead of the vztz model where you just pack 8 bags full of spells and grind through 1-50 in a day

list goes on and frankly I don't think this is worth discussing since it is already a foregone conclusion at this point.

You might as well argue for an /insta max level server if you are against leveling. Have fun being alone on that server.

This pretty much summed up anything that needs to be said in this thread. Your counter-argument wasn't even worth responding to tbh. 240 hours vs. 300 hours? Really? I think you have no concept of what it is like to level to 50 on VZTZ vs. P99 tbh.

If you don't want to embrace the PVE aspect of the game which this CLASSIC PVP SERVER is emulating in accordance to how it was on Live, then don't play on the server. Period.

You are one person in favor of VZTZ-type xp rates compared to the probable hundreds that want classic xp rates. Go play a FPS imo brah if you want to hop in and start killin' people with no other game aspects involved.

[Convict]

Go play a FPS imo brah if you want to hop in and start killin' people with no other game aspects involved.
This. come at me on CSS bro

[raptorak]

I want faster exp, but would take no exp penalties for classes instead.

[Doors]

I want faster exp, but would take no exp penalties for classes instead.

[Galacticus]

This pretty much summed up anything that needs to be said in this thread. Your counter-argument wasn't even worth responding to tbh. 240 hours vs. 300 hours? Really? I think you have no concept of what it is like to level to 50 on VZTZ vs. P99 tbh.

If you don't want to embrace the PVE aspect of the game which this CLASSIC PVP SERVER is emulating in accordance to how it was on Live, then don't play on the server. Period.

You are one person in favor of VZTZ-type xp rates compared to the probable hundreds that want classic xp rates. Go play a FPS imo brah if you want to hop in and start killin' people with no other game aspects involved.

240 hrs vs 300 hrs refers to people who train and cheat, the point is that no matter how much xp rates are, they will still cheat and train.

Best example was the people who leveled to 60 and still cheated, time put in does not = an incentive to not cheat or train, but you prolly didnt even read that part I wrote.

I dont want super fast xp rates. This thread is meant to be a discussion of how much xp should be taken from a pvp death vs the amount gained by pve.

Pvp exp loss amount is directly related to pve exp gain.

[Galacticus]

Like I already said, I am all for classic exp. I just question if its the best choice when considering pvp exp loss and how hard it will be for new people to start out when its month 6.

[gloinz]

Imo it should be like +20% or ~30% just to counteract the time spent pvping/extra deaths from getting pked, not to much but not to little.

[Yukahwa]

Gfaydark is the main auction zone on PVP servers because of easy faction gain via tons of orcs, and the in-zone bank. Just FYI for guys imagining Gfay being desolate. Its like an arena.

[Humerox]

I still would like someone to give me a good explanation advocating xp loss on pvp death?

I'm against it....turn me please

Don't know if it's enough to turn you, but here are my thoughts:

1) Bind rushing:

There's no way to really police this, and xp loss of any kind is going to crack it. It has proven in the past to be a pretty big problem, imo.

Combine this with the probability that item loot will exist, and the equation becomes fubar.

2) Solo ganking:

While some favor this style of play, it's anti-social and doesn't condone grouping. While (as an anti-pk), I will welcome solo PKs with open-arms, I also will more than welcome anything that promotes more grouping and less soloing. With exp loss in PvP, the solo twinks and solo casters will think twice.

3) Solo casters and Twinks:

They have huge advantages in classic play. While tearing through a whole group may be hard, ripping through 2-3 opponents several levels under you isn't nearly as difficult. Anything to balance this is a plus in my book. They don't like losing xp...and will likely run in squads, which is group friendly and A-OK in my book. (Cuz I'll be helping to hunt them...)




The cons are mainly experience griefing and increased corpse camping:

If a ganker wants to xp kill you...there are ways and ways of doing it. That will exist regardless of an xp penalty. If the penalty is too soft, that's gonna happen anyway. Necros, Monks and SK's can use FD to huge advantage without training, trust me. Bards have crazy shit available that will blow your mind. (Charm-burning...god I hated that). Rooting you until mob respawns...whatever, there are ways to grief you sharpened and honed by griefing experts that have had years of practice. (Scarin' my damn self, now).

Corpse camping is easier. Make more friends, lol. Call in anti-pk squads. Log off and play an alt...whatever.

I'm sure there's more...but those factors are the biggest in my book.

[Rushmore]

1) Bind rushing:

There's no way to really police this, and xp loss of any kind is going to crack it. It has proven in the past to be a pretty big problem, imo.



Great point. The only thing I really see it helping.

Item loot would be a disaster for the entire server.

And PVP XP loss on Death would be disastrous for the causal player which would be disastrous for the population.

Just my opinions tho

[Bardalicious]

240 hrs vs 300 hrs refers to people who train and cheat, the point is that no matter how much xp rates are, they will still cheat and train.

Best example was the people who leveled to 60 and still cheated, time put in does not = an incentive to not cheat or train, but you prolly didnt even read that part I wrote.

I dont want super fast xp rates. This thread is meant to be a discussion of how much xp should be taken from a pvp death vs the amount gained by pve.

Pvp exp loss amount is directly related to pve exp gain.

Fortunately, cheating is already going to be a non-factor. I think that was pretty evident from the large number of suspensions through this new detection method.

If people still choose to attempt to, they will be banned before they reach level 10. If they intend to train, they will be caught and their time investment will be thrown away. Eventually, they will grow tired of wasting their own time when it takes a month or more to reach a level high enough to train "end-game" dungeons / zones etc.

Having unforgiving xp rates forces people that MIGHT train to reconsider whether it is worth it, on top of a potential suspension / banning.

We don't know for sure if they are implementing xp loss on pvp death. And it is evident by this thread that nilbog is willing to compromise on the amount of xp taken. In no way, however, is the answer going to be increasing the xp rates.

You also seem to be suffering from the misconception that no pvp is going to occur before level 50. If you're one of those "but it's more fun at level 50" argument types, save it, please. PVP can be just as entertaining at level 7 in crushbone as it can be at level 50 in lower guk imo.

It is that early and mid-game PVPing that a lot of us wish to relive that makes me pray that nilbog reconsiders item looting in favor of xp death, however. I certainly admit while a lot of us are leveling up, it may deter a lot of people from participating in PVP. Early and mid-game PVPing will not be allowed to thrive, though, if faster xp rates are implemented.

[Albel420]

(NOTE: This is almost the same discussion as xp penalty for pvp death, which I am for. Yet the gap between pvp death and pve gain is what I am trying to discuss here.)

I see lots of people saying we should have slow xp rates, but my question is what good reasons do you have?

Is not the main focus of this server to pvp?

Why is it an issue how fast people progress through pve content if the main focus would be to pvp on this server?

If you want the "classic" super slow leveling experience, why wouldn't you just play on the p99 pve server?

What does the rate at which you level even have to do with pvp anyway?

This seems like a subtle greifing mechanic to me. The longer you have to level, the more it sucks when you die for pvp. People are more happy, the more you lost. Why promote that?

Sure you might argue that there needs to be a penalty for dieing in pvp, and I agree, but the larger that gap is, the less people are willing to pvp because the more they will lose.

I would rather have 10 battles with someone and lose a half a bubble of exp rather then have 2 battles with them and lose the same amount. If you take that scenario, at the end of those bouts, you are more likely to go for fight 11, rather then the third fight just because that third fight would cost you so much more exp then the 11th.

This would be most important for classes that cannot solo. Barely anyone will play them just because it is 20x harder then rolling a druid or a necro who can solo with ease.

A warrior monk or rogue can be a good pvp class, but if they cant pve to balance things out or find security in a guild or something like that, they are going to have the roughest time.

I want people to play rogues and monks and warriors, they are fun to pvp with and against. But there will be less of an incentive with slow xp rate gains.

Another thing that alot of people say is that they want to pvp at lower levels, that those are really fun times to pvp. I agree, it is very fun. But really what is stopping you from having another character that is level 20 for you to kill people around your level?

Being realistic, we wont all stay at level 20 forever, and eventually you will level out of the range to kill people at that level or they will out level you or whatever, it wont stay like that unless you make that alt that is created for pvping at that level.

Another issue that comes up is that people don't want to rush through content or miss content. Yet this is entirely up to them what content they level on and what they do with their character. If they rush to the top thats their choice.

The higher level you get, the more powerful you become. People like being powerful. It keeps them comming back to their characters. If you sit down for hours and hours just to get all that erased by a a few unfair pvp fights you can easily feel like you are wasting your time. Thats just not fun.

Almost everyone ends up racing to the top level because thats where the most fun is, the most power and ability your character has. Don't be foolish to think having a slower xp rate is somehow changing this.

People with lots of time to exp will get there first with or without a leveling bonus.

Don't punish or shun the more casual people because they want to pvp more then pve. Keep those extra people who hate leveling and want to pvp so that the population can be as big as possible.

The main reason to have the exp bonus is to keep people playing when times get rough, and they will.

then if this is what you want, why don't you play live? I enjoy the slow exping :P

[valithteezee]

Dude, if you want fast xp go play on the E-Z server. All that spoon-fed shit sucks.