will exp on r99 be like p1999

[Sniperfire]

are you goin to make us grind like dogs? this will hurt server pop

[nilbog]

Hurting server population no longer has any validity for me.

That rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused.

[Mrcurtloco]

I heard only gay rangers are p99 exp, rest is x300%

it does nil actually ask dax ask null ask searyx

but to find the happy medium is the key

ive grinded threw 5 pvp boxes, it does get old to people.

but to be fair if its a server with not 3... not 4.. not5. not6 not7, no but without 300 plus pop or maybe even more, low exp can be killer for pvpers

[mitic]

best pvp is while exping. reduce exp on red99 even more imo!

[Nirgon]

Hurting server population no longer has any validity for me.

That rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused.

Classic xp. Makes the lower levels and class struggle matter.

[Macken]

Hurting server population no longer has any validity for me.


With all the "rules" presumably to protect red99 population,(yt etc..) i guess the staff meetings are pretty unbearable for you then?

[zixxer]

best pvp is while exping. reduce exp on red99 even more imo!

Agree

[Doors]

Keep exp rates the same, ditch the class penalties imo.

[nilbog]

With all the "rules" presumably to protect red99 population,(yt etc..) i guess the staff meetings are pretty unbearable for you then?

You presume too much and your guess is wrong.

[Macken]

You presume too much and your guess is wrong.

So all these dumb oppresive rules like no yt, staff-suggested play nice rules etc... are not to protect server population according to nilbog.

Maybe nilbog wants to elaborate?

So while you are convinced there are is nothing to back up the arguement that rules or no yt have any postive effect on population, you sit through meetings keeping your mouth shut about the most important thing effecting the hypothetical new red server?

[Doors]

It all depends if you guys have exp loss on death.

If so, up the rates or nix the class penalties.
If not, keep everything the same exp wise to p99 rates.

[nilbog]

So all these dumb oppresive rules like no yt, staff-suggested play nice rules etc... are not to protect server population according to nilbog.

Maybe nilbog wants to elaborate?

So while you are convinced there are is nothing to back up the arguement that rules or no yt have any postive effect on population, you sit through meetings keeping your mouth shut about the most important thing effecting the hypothetical new red server?

You presume too much, yet again. You don't speak for me. If I have something to say, I'll say it for myself.

If you read my initial reply, I said, "that rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused." Did this not make sense to you? It means stating something like "This will hurt server population", with no supporting evidence or reasoning is no longer a response I will consider valid.

You sound mad.

[Lasher]

p99 exp can work as long as there is a suffcient population to support grouping. No one knows what the populatin will be like. Concerns i have is if the active population on red99 during peak hours is around 100 after the hype of it being a new server disappears. 100 maintained population during peak is a success imo compared to previous pvp servers but is that enough?

I dont think p99 exp will deter people from playing on red99 but i think the possible lack of high populatin that p99 experiences will hurt realistic grouping and that in turn will either turn people away or make them play a class they dont want to.

Right now everything is speculation. If red99 comes out and there is 300-400 people always on then i wouldnt give a shit what exp rate is. If you log on and there is 100 people spread around the world you have to hope there is enough people in your lvl range that will group with you or you got to roll a solo class

[Doors]

I am assuming the population on red99 after the initial server opening is going to be about half of what p99 currently sits at. Which is why I am even mentioning maybe adjusting the exp rates or class penalties.

[Sniperfire]

BOOM for president 2012

[Sniperfire]

You presume too much, yet again. You don't speak for me. If I have something to say, I'll say it for myself.

If you read my initial reply, I said, "that rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused." Did this not make sense to you? It means stating something like "This will hurt server population", with no supporting evidence or reasoning is no longer a response I will consider valid.

You sound mad.

we all have 5 or more years on emulated pvp servers to "back our claims"
we know what hurts population

item loot as much as some of us love it
exp loss in pvp
long grinds
rude know it all gms to name a few

i also agree with lasher if theres 300 people you will have pvp in all lvl ranges and that will be fun

[God-King Abacab]

Classic XP rates for PvP circa 1999-2002


+20% xp bonus compared to blue servers
50% less xp lost on death
10/15/20/25% group bonus (based on number)
Xp loss on PvP death


You gained a bit more experience if you grouped up on a PvP server compared to blue but it certainty is no where near VZ/TZ rates or any other emu box, in fact it's only slightly better than p99

If Nilbog is going for a straight classic approach to content including XP rates and penalties expect all the normal penalties from P99 to apply in addition to what I stated above... So don't expect to 1-60 in a day like Voidd box.

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif?1275684729

[Macken]

You presume too much, yet again. You don't speak for me. If I have something to say, I'll say it for myself.

If you read my initial reply, I said, "that rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused." Did this not make sense to you? It means stating something like "This will hurt server population", with no supporting evidence or reasoning is no longer a response I will consider valid.

You sound mad.

You sound trolled.

...and mad.


Reading comprehension.

google it.


"no supporting evidence" is the key. The staff has signaled their intention to make rules which they in so many words state is for the express purpose to maintain a high population with no supporting evidence.

I believe i speak for everyone by saying that much is crystal clear. If that is not the staff's position. It would be wise for them to state so now and furthermore, state their reasoning for offering up such short-sighted, ingorant and god-awful rules.

[Sniperfire]

boom for president

[Lasher]

Just hope for the best and pray GMs will be open minded if the server doesnt pan out how they plan and are willing to do things differently if need be

[Sniperfire]

Classic XP rates for PvP circa 1999-2002


+20% xp bonus compared to blue servers
50% less xp lost on death
10/15/20/25% group bonus (based on number)
Xp loss on PvP death


You gained a bit more experience if you grouped up on a PvP server compared to blue but it certainty is no where near VZ/TZ rates or any other emu box, in fact it's only slightly better than p99

If Nilbog is going for a straight classic approach to content including XP rates and penalties expect all the normal penalties from P99 to apply in addition to what I stated above... So don't expect to 1-60 in a day like Voidd box.

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif?1275684729

aba why do you care your just gonna get shit on again till you quit and qq on the forums a week and go back to blue .....again....anyone have the screenshot of his clerics corpses last box in fp?

[Convict]

Hurting server population no longer has any validity for me.

That rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused.
Good to see someone with at least a modicum of wisdom behind the decision making. Please further ignore this moron Macken please. It's laughable hes pretending to care about the health or longevity of the server. He's just upset that this isn't looking like its going to turn out to be the arena style grief box he was hoping for.

[Macken]

Just hope for the best and pray GMs will be open minded if the server doesnt pan out how they plan and are willing to do things differently if need be

That's all you can do since you aren't allowed to pay.

But to ignore the examples and experimentations that came before them is the height of ignorance and stupidity.

Please forgive those who cannot sit idly by. Thank those who are willing to speak truth to power that the rest are afraid to do.

[Lasher]

I think its going to be more of a grief box. YT only caused grief to those with thin skin. EXP loss in pvp imo will cause more widespread grief

[Convict]

we all have 5 or more years on emulated pvp servers to "back our claims"
we know what hurts population
No, you don't.
I think its going to be more of a grief box. YT only caused grief to those with thin skin. EXP loss in pvp imo will cause more widespread grief
I wont disagree with this, because it's true. But people saying that its going to kill the population are delusional.

[Sniperfire]

No, you don't.
how very well thought out and articulate

[nilbog]

You sound trolled.

...and mad.


Reading comprehension.

google it.


"no supporting evidence" is the key. The staff has signaled their intention to make rules which they in so many words state is for the express purpose to maintain a high population with no supporting evidence.

I believe i speak for everyone by saying that much is crystal clear. If that is not the staff's position. It would be wise for them to state so now and furthermore, state their reasoning for offering up such short-sighted, ingorant and god-awful rules.

I sound trolled?

I was showing you how to interpret sentences, and not presume to speak for me.

If you're telling me to google reading comprehension, that's cool. I will suggest you in turn google punctuation, ad hominems, and all the words or phrases you misspelled or butchered. (oppresive*, (there are is), arguement*, postive*, ingorant*) etc.

Back to the topic at hand, can you explicitly explain why slower exp rates are short-sighted, ignorant*, and god-awful? I mean, the same objections were said about the p99 server and how it would hurt population. Those opinions were proven to be false.

Do you have legitimate reasons or do you not?

[eastadam55]

ban macken nilbog, ban him now!

[Sniperfire]

I sound trolled?

I was showing you how to interpret sentences, and not presume to speak for me.

If you're telling me to google reading comprehension, that's cool. I will suggest you in turn google punctuation, ad hominems, and all the words or phrases you misspelled or butchered. (oppresive*, (there are is), arguement*, postive*, ingorant*) etc.

Back to the topic at hand, can you explicitly explain why slower exp rates are short-sighted, ignorant*, and god-awful? I mean, the same objections were said about the p99 server and how it would hurt population. Those opinions were proven to be false.

Do you have legitimate reasons or do you not?

to me you sound like a guy who wants to win an argument not one that wants to have a discussion. Pvp servers can be frustrating esp pvp servers with exp penalties for pvp. if you have slow xp and the death penalties it will hurt your server more than your pride is currently hurt that somone has a different opinion than you

[Doors]

What Sniperfire said. I dunno how you could keep exp rates the same as p99 with exp loss on death. People are going to bind camp to grief, server population will be low as it is.

[Convict]

how very well thought out and articulate
I don't need to have a well thought out and articulate debate about why what you said is false. If you guys knew what rules worked/didn't work you would still have a box to play on with more than the same 50 people trying to zerg each other in pofear weekly.

[Sniperfire]

I don't need to have a well thought out and articulate debate about why what you said is false. If you guys knew what rules worked/didn't work you would still have a box to play on with more than the same 50 people trying to zerg each other in pofear weekly.

you seem to think that was the only box, which it wasnt and you clearly have no idea why it failed i saw several pvp boxes rise and fall including 3 different tz/vz boxes. i watched pop grow and fall over several issues as did many other players. were trying to save you making mistakes made in the past your more than welcome to find out on your own what works and what doesnt why pay attention to the history of it ....ohhh thats right it will simply repeat itself

[Humerox]

I mean, the same objections were said about the p99 server and how it would hurt population. Those opinions were proven to be false.

Use what worked for P99. It's not about what we all may think will hurt the population, it's more about what you guys have learned in how to encourage it.

We all have our little ideas about how things will help or hurt population. The main thing is, devise a system and go with it. All the things that worked for P99 could work for R99; bonus xp at startup, bonus xp for grouping...play around with things.

GM events (an opening server event would be really cool)...getting enough people to help as guides...

Make it a FUN place to be. The rest of the crap can be worked out.

[Macken]

I sound trolled?

I was showing you how to interpret sentences, and not presume to speak for me.

If you're telling me to google reading comprehension, that's cool. I will suggest you in turn google punctuation, ad hominems, and all the words or phrases you misspelled or butchered. (oppresive*, (there are is), arguement*, postive*, ingorant*) etc.

Back to the topic at hand, can you explicitly explain why slower exp rates are short-sighted, ignorant*, and god-awful? I mean, the same objections were said about the p99 server and how it would hurt population. Those opinions were proven to be false.

Do you have legitimate reasons or do you not?

Cleaning up after tornados, moderating forums, working for the grammar police...when do find time to think about pvp?

Since you seem interested in tits for tats. Please scour the internet and find any post I've ever written stating that i wanted faster exp, or that faster exp was a good idea.

Again, reading comprehension and google. Reading comprehension and google.

If you want to come to the boards and make comments about pvp, you might want to spend more time thinking about pvp instead of grammar and spending time making up stuff and attributing it to others and getting called out for it.

If you want to talk about programming. I'll listen. If you want to talk about grammar. I'll listen. If you want to talk about pvp, you are going to listen...or be made a fool of. Get used to it.

Get on my level.

[tarni]

well i dont see it will be any good ide in getting exp or lose exp. to player death. since u can fast loose alot of exp in fighting players. and most ppl will either leave zone. or not attack ppl there are higher lvl. need to consider this might be low ppl server.. so u should remove that fact. and might implant it later on.
some one wrote there was exp lost on pvp on eq. sure wasent that on vallon zek!

item loot are an good ide , for what els reason should u kill another player?

and dont say i do not know what i talk about in pvp :P
ill started my first pvp game in 1994 then move to eq. and pvped there.
was even red chr on my first server povar all the way to lvl 50.!

Tarni Shadowdancer - vallon zek - Twelve Prophets
Cleric

[nilbog]

Cleaning up after tornados, moderating forums, working for the grammar police...when do find time to think about pvp?

Since you seem interested in tits for tats. Please scour the internet and find any post I've ever written stating that i wanted faster exp, or that faster exp was a good idea.

Again, reading comprehension and google. Reading comprehension and google.

If you want to come to the boards and make comments about pvp, you might want to spend more time thinking about pvp instead of grammar and spending time making up stuff and attributing it to others and getting called out for it.

If you want to talk about programming. I'll listen. If you want to talk about grammar. I'll listen. If you want to talk about pvp, you are going to listen...or be made a fool of. Get used to it.

Get on my level.

Did you read the subject of this thread? It's about exp.

[Macken]

Did you read the subject of this thread? It's about exp.

Then what are you doing here?

[nilbog]

Then what are you doing here?

1. Trying to ask for legitimate reasons why people would want faster exp. Preferably a discussion not hinging on vztz experience.

2. Banning you for being obnoxious.

[Crenshinabon]

Whole appeal to P99 is the epicness you feel for your character. It will be even moreso on Red99 knowing you survived to a higher level. This sounds awesome to me! I like the slow xp rates, I like xp loss on deaths. If you are getting "griefed" you will die a few times, lose like 1/2 a bubble to a full bubble of xp and log off.

This sounds like a great medium between item/coin/no penalties.

I also think the population will be solid because everyone knows this is "the red server" to play. Not to mention it will prb be at top of list right under P1999.

I am psyched and hope this server comes soon!~

[Moonzi]

That made me giggle...

I will say exp death with pvp would be a slight turn off for me...having P99 exp rate doesn't bother me at all if I can take a break and go try and kill some one to break up the grind.

[notmacken]

You have been banned for the following reason:
You bruised my ego. I cannot have everyone finding out i am shell of a man, who is as dumb as the day is long. If they find out I am impotent to stop those who make fun of me, then i will lose the last bit of power i am still clinging to.

Date the ban will be lifted: 09-06-2011, 11:00 AM
------------------------------------------------------

If Nilbog is getting embarrassed in an internet discussion, he will take his ball and go home.


So there!

Nanny nanny boo boo!


Nilbog tells you, Maybe that will teach you to respect my ignorant opinions, because i am somebody. I am a forum moderator.

[SanlavenTZ]

1. Trying to ask for legitimate reasons why people would want faster exp. Preferably a discussion not hinging on vztz experience.

2. Banning you for being obnoxious.

I don't think there is a legitimate reason, other than people wanting PvE to be "easy mode." The experience rates on P99 weren't even that bad. Most of the red players hoping for a Red99 server for the past year or so have probably already come to grips in their own minds about dealing with the same experience rate as the blue server. It's a minor concern at best.

[notmacken]

1. Trying to ask for legitimate reasons why people would want faster exp. Preferably a discussion not hinging on any real world experience including VZTZ. What would be the wisdom in that?


No you aren't. You aren't asking any questions, only making pronouncements. You are here just to spout your ignorant opinions thinking somehow they have any validity or weight simply because you are a forum moderator.


Hurting server population no longer has any validity for me.

That rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused.

[Convict]

No you aren't. You aren't asking any questions, only making pronouncements. You are here just to spout your ignorant opinions thinking somehow they have any validity or weight simply because you are a forum moderator.
Fact - Nilbog has had more success with his server than any previous box could have ever hoped for. His opinions hold far more validity or weight than anything you have posted or will post. Mongoloid detected.

[notmacken]

Fact - Nilbog has had more success with his server than any previous box could have ever hoped for. His opinions hold far more validity or weight than anything you have posted or will post. Mongoloid detected.

Thats the problem. So far Nilbog is a confused moderator of a relatively successful blue server forum

He thinks that means he has a clue about how to run or administer a pvp server.

[eastadam55]

lol ban him again

[notmacken]

lol ban him again

That's a foregone conclusion that will only prove everything i've already said about him.

[Humerox]

It's not like there aren't level-headed people to consult that have run - or helped run -PvP boxes that actually know what they're talking about.

Sirken for example.

[Convict]

Thats the problem. So far Nilbog is a confused moderator of a relatively successful blue server.

He thinks that means he has a clue about how to run or administer a pvp server.
So far you're a confused member of a multitude of wildly unsuccessful pvp servers

You think that means you have a clue about how to run or administer a pvp server? You're a fucking joke dude, just give it up.

[Sniperfire]

So far you're a confused member of a multitude of wildly unsuccessful pvp servers

You think that means you have a clue about how to run or administer a pvp server? You're a fucking joke dude, just give it up.

convict all you do is spout bs about how we dont know what were talking about is there a point to any of your posts besides riding the gms jock?
we get it you agree with the gm .....

[Sniperfire]

if the server poulation is high slow exp is fine IF theres no exp loss in pvp death
this is all im saying otherwise it will hurt the population there are greifers you will be greifed also from an admin point of view you will have many more petitions about being cced if they suffer anything more than coin loss to a pvp death.

this is another reason for YT imo its another form of pvp incentive to some

[Convict]

convict all you do is spout bs about how we dont know what were talking about is there a point to any of your posts besides riding the gms jock?
we get it you agree with the gm .....
We? I was talking to Macken. There have been many decent VZTZ'ers such as yourself helping contribute to constructive discussion. All he is doing is flaming Nilbog, why are you defending him?

My point is that there isn't some "one-size-fits-all" rule set that absolutely has to be implemented or the server is doomed to fail.

[Bigpop]

I know that most people reading this forum will agree with me when I say that the more QQ posts I see about the rules and xp the better I know the server will be.

The greatness of the server and the level of mackens anger are in direct correlation.

What you guys don't seem to get is this is not vztz meets p99 source...this is simply another Project99 but with pvp enabled. If you want to mock the people who are making the dream of a stable, classic, legit pvp server a reality, then you deserve to be banned.

[notmacken]

And all im saying is that just because you were on a staff that administered a pvp server, doesn't mean you know jack or more about governing a pvp server than the pvpers do.

Sirken included.

I caught sirken making several mistakes. Does that mean he sucks? no.

Does that mean his opinions hold more weight than those, whom his opinions effected. Not just no, but HECK NO! He was going along ignorant as to what effect his rules were even having. He had to be TOLD by the community. If he was going to have to be TOLD, then why not just ask those who were doing the telling?

And all you other ignorant players who keep riding his and other staff's nuts only make it worse.

[XiakenjaTZ]

Macken deserved the ban. Really no reason to ride Nilbog's nuts like that unless you just want to piss him off.

[notmacken]

speaking truth to power = ban

[notmacken]

The greatness of the server and the level of macken's warnings are in direct correlation.



Fixed.


I've seen it go down 4 times with my own eyes.

I've heard about 3 other times.

Experience and enough intelligence to look at prior happenings.

Thats all i have over the staff.

[Sniperfire]

We? I was talking to Macken. There have been many decent VZTZ'ers such as yourself helping contribute to constructive discussion. All he is doing is flaming Nilbog, why are you defending him?

My point is that there isn't some "one-size-fits-all" rule set that absolutely has to be implemented or the server is doomed to fail.

he seems highly confrontational to me also he seems to brush anything said by a tz/vz regular off as if it holds no weight.

alot of you do that here macken is right about most of what hes says he might not say it nicely but hes often right. he is also a legend on eq and doesnt deserve to be shut down every time he opens his mouth cause somone has a personal problem with him. were not shitting on you being blue were not posting in your section to try and change things we are eagerly awaiting a pvp server and we want our ideas heard without being trolled by people who wont make it past the first week

[Yukahwa]

There is no reason to allow folks to get to level 50. If you want to beat the game..keep playing on a server where you already have hit max level. The experience of walking through level 1-50 on a PVP server is the entire enjoyable part of the game.

These "hurt server pop" arguments, and these "look at vztz and how it failed big time" arguments are really really shallow. Look at EQ live, and the rallos zek server there. There was item loot..people still played and enjoyed it. There was slow grinding..people still played and enjoyed it. YES pvp is in general less popular than PVE but as we all know (thanks sony) a watered down PVP server is worse than all of the above. If we wanted mass appeal we would be playing WOW or some other crappy game.

This server has the opportunity to recreate the rare mix of PK oriented players and PVE oriented pvp players like rallos zek had. There is a strong population on P99 and many of them are interested in playing PVP just to hear what all the fuss is about. Many of them simply love everquest and are looking to enjoy it in a way they have not enjoyed it before.

This population is readily adaptable to any pvp environment and consists of more than the disenfranchised ex VZTZ players. These PVE oriented PVP players could easily out number the PK oriented players which would bring good balance to the server. Item loot is a key part of this balance because it means low level twinks are actually risking their loot by going out and hunting lowbies. It makes it actually worthwhile for lowbies to gang up on twinks because they are likely to drop good gear. They might manage to bag it all, the might manage to suicide one way or another, they might manage to zone plug in which case you can call them a pansy for the rest of their lives..but you might get lucky, and that chance is what makes it fun.

It is also completely wrong to say that item loot means casters utterly dominate. They do dominate in old world PVP, that is a fact regardless of gear. But a naked caster will die in about 3 hits from any melee player. What it all comes down to is this - who is the hunter and who is the hunted? Whoever attacks first has a massive advantage regardless of class. People that want to avoid being oppressed by these "really mean casters that I experienced when I got killed by them on vztz" will have a fun time when one enters your zone and you and your group get to try to kill him before he kills you.

There is no argument for increased EXP rates at all. People aren't playing just to get to the end. If they are playing just to get to the end, then a slow EXP rate makes the bragging rights they are seeking even more valuable.

Really, increased EXP rates just mean that the game progresses towards stagnation quicker, people hit max level quicker and get all of the valuable items they wanted quicker and start tapping their foot waiting for kunark to be released so they can race to the finish on the next new continent.

How does that help server population?

[Convict]

I know that most people reading this forum will agree with me when I say that the more QQ posts I see about the rules and xp the better I know the server will be.

The greatness of the server and the level of mackens anger are in direct correlation.

What you guys don't seem to get is this is not vztz meets p99 source...this is simply another Project99 but with pvp enabled. If you want to mock the people who are making the dream of a stable, classic, legit pvp server a reality, then you deserve to be banned.
Now THIS is speaking truth to power. Take notes!

[eastadam55]

omg macken just go away no one wants you here even the devs don't like you.

[Yukahwa]

I agree.

[Nirgon]

So all these dumb oppresive rules like no yt, staff-suggested play nice rules etc... are not to protect server population according to nilbog.

Maybe nilbog wants to elaborate?

So while you are convinced there are is nothing to back up the arguement that rules or no yt have any postive effect on population, you sit through meetings keeping your mouth shut about the most important thing effecting the hypothetical new red server?

Play nice rules were classic, YT was not. If they can enforce play nice, go ahead by all means. I think corpse camping should be player enforced given the situation. If a guy won't stop trying to gank you every 10mins? Yeah, punish him. Extreme cases of harassment are another story.

No YT isn't even a rule, it's just not something they want. It prevents much stupidity / revealing player location. (it also isn't classic)

[Nirgon]

pvp incentive

Contesting camps/kill stealing etc, settling trash talkers. Don't need YT.

[Nirgon]

lol ban him again

Hopefully this trend will continue in enforcing retardation.

[Sniperfire]

just to be clear when we say they dont want do we mean staff or playerbase?

just post polls and go with the players feelings on the given subject

[Nirgon]

And why doesn't the staff want it?

And why are you or the VZTZ crew a good representation of the soon-to-be community on this server?

[notmacken]

You think that means you have a clue about how to run or administer a pvp server? You're a fucking joke dude, just give it up.

The problem you are having as well as some of the staff is:

You think watching someone do something, means you know more about what that person is doing, than the person who is actually doing it.

If Sirken had a clue, he wouldn't have had to be told by the players.

[Sniperfire]

And why doesn't the staff want it?

And why are you or the VZTZ crew a good representation of the soon-to-be community on this server?

i didnt say we were i just said poll it but you cant even let that go by without high 5in gm nuts

[Convict]

he seems highly confrontational to me also he seems to brush anything said by a tz/vz regular off as if it holds no weight.

alot of you do that here macken is right about most of what hes says he might not say it nicely but hes often right. he is also a legend on eq and doesnt deserve to be shut down every time he opens his mouth cause somone has a personal problem with him. were not shitting on you being blue were not posting in your section to try and change things we are eagerly awaiting a pvp server and we want our ideas heard without being trolled by people who wont make it past the first week
Wow. He is a legend on EQ? Really? You just removed yourself from constructive discussion man, sorry. He is NOT right about most of what he says because he obviously did NOT play EQ PVP on live. His only pvp experience stems from EQEMU pvp which was entirely flawed since its inception. His argument is not valid, and his points are moot. Keep slurping up his man jelly, bro.

Whatever effects certain rules had on vztz are not guaranteed to have the same effect here, if anything it may have the opposite. You starting to understand yet?

As far as Nilbog seemingly being confrontational, no shit! He has to deal with people like Macken who have the intellectual caliber of a toilet seat (Get it? He's getting shit on).

[notmacken]

Hopefully this trend will continue in enforcing retardation.

Yes, lets hope we live in Libya or Syria or some other 3rd world slum where we can just silence those who make fun of us.

Sounds like a wonderful recipe for server success.

Maybe we should make Nirgon President.

Theres no telling how far we can go!

[Haul]

KEEP IT SAME AS p99-

[Sniperfire]

http://i54.tinypic.com/fbl1c5.jpg

i see the hate rofl

[Nirgon]

Yes, lets hope we live in Libya or Syria or some other 3rd world slum where we can just silence those who make fun of us.

Sounds like a wonderful recipe for server success.

Maybe we should make Nirgon President.

Theres no telling how far we can go!

You weren't making fun of him, you were just acting like a fool.

Yes, keeping out complete idiots who troll the staff as much as possible sounds like a good idea to me too.

As far as president? That's someone's job here already and he does it well. He really doesn't ask for much either.

[vinx]

This server has the opportunity to recreate the rare mix of PK oriented players and PVE oriented pvp players like rallos zek had. There is a strong population on P99 and many of them are interested in playing PVP just to hear what all the fuss is about. Many of them simply love everquest and are looking to enjoy it in a way they have not enjoyed it before.

Alot of fine points in that post.
just wanted to add a couple more reasons people may come over, and that is
they are #25+ in line for loots in some zerg guild and possibly interested in:
A) fresh start / even playing field as population grinds and gears up
B) drops like guise/box of abukar/manastone
C) loot position in the next raid guild
D) missed P99 launch and came late to the party (or simply love classic)

* imo, P99 xp rates wouldnt be a deterent to server health (R99 != vz/tz)

[notmacken]

You weren't making fun of him, you were just acting like a fool.

Yes, keeping out complete idiots who troll the staff as much as possible sounds like a good idea to me too.

As far as president? That's someone's job here already and he does it well. He really doesn't ask for much either.

Nom on nom nom

[Sniperfire]

sure but do they have thick enough skin to take the server on, the things were talking about and being bitched at for saying are true and have proved true over and over not many in the position your talking about are gonna stay when at 42 a 50 loots there manastone or they cant lvl anywhere from constant greif or even worse they are corpse camped into there 30s

[vinx]

sure but do they have thick enough skin to take the server on, the things were talking about and being bitched at for saying are true and have proved true over and over not many in the position your talking about are gonna stay when at 42 a 50 loots there manastone or they cant lvl anywhere from constant greif or even worse they are corpse camped into there 30s
lol that does NOT happen on a daily basis

everyone will have a manastone plz
hopefully theres more a population where that isnt possible

[Nirgon]

You know, that's the burning question. I don't know how they're going to deal with the definite spam of petitions etc. Maybe they don't?

They just have to be careful about what rules they enforce and expect lots of crybaby acts/crocodile tears regardless of their decision.

They shouldn't allow looting of melee slots, that was an obvious change made to RZ. If you're smart with a manastone on an item loot server, you'll keep it in a main or offhand. There's such a thing as no drop gear or watching your /who.

I can't tell you what will happen other than they want a classic experience with no add-on elements.

I'm not just avoiding making a prediction because I'm afraid to be wrong, but more because I honestly don't know how this thing is going to turn out in the end.

What I do know is that the attack every person you see aspect won't be as prevalent as some people think.

I also don't expect a 500+ population.

[Sniperfire]

lol that does NOT happen on a daily basis

everyone will have a manastone plz
hopefully theres more a population where that isnt possible

our guild would easily kill 15-30 players a day and im downplaying that on a server with a top pop of 80ish last box yes every day you logged in you would loose an item or sit somewhere lfg praying somone you knew logged in.

i have seen boom kill everyone not guilded on the server 3 or 4 times in one day

[nilbog]

Macken, you were banned for trolling and personal attacks outside of rants and flames. You continued this behavior and now you're banned again.

You are unreliable for civil discourse.

This thread is still about exp rates. I am one of the only people who can be influenced to make exp increase or decrease. You can choose to make it personal, or be proactive and try to state your opinions without breaking forum rules.

[Sniperfire]

nilbog you get what im saying about slow exp and exp pvp penalties not mixing well aye?

you should also take into account the mentality of the pvp population it will not be easy to jump on and find a grp like on a blue server alot of new people will be grinding alone slowly and getting killed by grps

[Lasher]

1. Trying to ask for legitimate reasons why people would want faster exp. Preferably a discussion not hinging on vztz experience.


If population is high enough it will support classes that require a group such as warrior,rog, monk.

If population is low and that warrior/rog/monk/ect is continuously lfg and falling further behind compared to the necros/druid/shams/ench/mages who chose to solo or duo because it doesnt requier finding a full group to exp and limits the search time for actually exping then it will make those people possibly choose to either reroll, quit, or stick it out.

My suggestions would be if you see a big population drop after the new car period and a huge disparity of classes that depend on grouping then create insentives for those classes

Reducing or remove the exp penalty
Increasing group bonus
Increasing dungeon bonus

necros/mages/cleric/sham/druid/ench will always do well in our out of a full group

warrior/rog/monk/sk/paladin/ranger imo are the classes that usually only do well in a group, obviously there is always exceptions

[vinx]

our guild would easily kill 15-30 players a day and im downplaying that on a server with a top pop of 80ish last box yes every day you logged in you would loose an item or sit somewhere lfg praying somone you knew logged in.

i have seen boom kill everyone not guilded on the server 3 or 4 times in one day
80sih? is that emu box capable server or even live boxed or solo?
buff bots/MQ buffed?

might not happen as often as you think being single player here
and killing every unguilded 3-4x in a day wont happen if they get some population here where some anti-pks group up

[Nirgon]

everyone not guilded


Was there for the amusement of the local population who was already farmed up / fully resist geared / MQing. Again, why the xp uber boost is bad. People get too far ahead, too fast. When people come down the line 3-5months later on a population of 80...

[nilbog]

nilbog you get what im saying about slow exp and exp pvp penalties not mixing well aye?

you should also take into account the mentality of the pvp population it will not be easy to jump on and find a grp like on a blue server alot of new people will be grinding alone slowly and getting killed by grps

What if the exp loss was around 5%, with a hypothetical population of around 500-750? I imagine the numbers will be very high to begin with, then taper off.

[Sniperfire]

the simple fact is you will die the more people the more you will die and like it or not a few guilds of people out there that will hunt you down with nowhere to hide in classic think what you want time will tell im done trying to convince you mate maybe ask some of the people who tried the pvp servers and went back to 99 why they went back

[Convict]

nilbog you get what im saying about slow exp and exp pvp penalties not mixing well aye?

you should also take into account the mentality of the pvp population it will not be easy to jump on and find a grp like on a blue server alot of new people will be grinding alone slowly and getting killed by grps
I actually agree with this. I like the idea of classic exp rate but there should be minimal exp loss on death till 46. At 46+ there should be more severe consequences to dying in pvp for obvious reasons.

[Nirgon]

I'd really consider xp loss on death from a basis of people repetitively killing someone. It won't do well for the pop. Coin, a run back, and player governed corpse camping rules imo. The loot and scoot thing promotes rule lawyering and bs. Players who stay up till 5am can enforce rules against each other rather than the staff.

[Smedy]

i have seen boom kill everyone not guilded on the server 3 or 4 times in one day

All this with a wizard, he must be amazingly godlike at the game just finding everyone wherever they are, it's simply magical.

On topic:

Anyone who thinks slow exp would hurt the server pop is an idiot, i'd say the slower the better.

The fast exp formula has been tried and tested in many different ways on vz tz and has proven to fail miserably at keeping hackers out etc.

It's also nice having an actual punishment for dieing in pve, while exp is worth a lot on p99 it wasn't worth shit on vz/tz ever. Remember training over and over with your naked lvl 60th? Well that shit might actually hurt you on P99 red, cause you'll care about your hard earned exp.

I have absolutely no problem in exping for a year and invest a shit ton of time into my character, as long as i know this shit isn't gonna get wiped when the trolls feels like it should.

I simply say, the slower the exp, the better for the pop (the pop that actually wants to play eq and not just logon, grief and log off).

PS. I also support EXP DEATH on PVP, even with slow as fuck exp, the more consequence on dieing, the more fun, however i do not support item loot since some classes are garbage without good loots. Dieing should be felt.

[Sniperfire]

imo the people up till 5 am like myself are more likely to cc you kill you naked and train you =)

[Sniperfire]

All this with a wizard, he must be amazingly godlike at the game just finding everyone wherever they are, it's simply magical.

On topic:

Anyone who thinks slow exp would hurt the server pop is an idiot, i'd say the slower the better.

The fast exp formula has been tried and tested in many different ways on vz tz and has proven to fail miserably at keeping hackers out etc.

It's also nice having an actual punishment for dieing in pve, while exp is worth a lot on p99 it wasn't worth shit on vz/tz ever. Remember training over and over with your naked lvl 60th? Well that shit might actually hurt you on P99 red, cause you'll care about your hard earned exp.

I have absolutely no problem in exping for a year and invest a shit ton of time into my character, as long as i know this shit isn't gonna get wiped when the trolls feels like it should.

I simply say, the slower the exp, the better for the pop (the pop that actually wants to play eq and not just logon, grief and log off).

PS. I also support EXP DEATH on PVP, even with slow as fuck exp, the more consequence on dieing, the more fun, however i do not support item loot since some classes are garbage without good loots. Dieing should be felt.

im not saying give us tz/vz exp im only saying if you give us classic exp take out item loot and pvp exp loss

[vinx]

maybe ask some of the people who tried the pvp servers and went back to 99 why they went back
I understand dying and hunting.. played VZ
tried a few boxes here only to about 25-35 and quit because it was nothing like live!
broken this an that, exploits and 3rd party programs running rampant. not to mention logging in buff bots for full array of buffs then dragging a box healer wherever you go.

Alot of this stuff will be minimized here on R99 from what ive seen in the discussion threads = more stable and better environment then vz/tz box #629343

[Zigfreed]

I'll play almost no matter what but I would prefer a slower rate of xp. I don't really know enough to quantify what that means tho, sorry!

[Humerox]

What if the exp loss was around 5%, with a hypothetical population of around 500-750? I imagine the numbers will be very high to begin with, then taper off.

If you're going to implement XP loss for PvP, 5% may as well be 0. 25% would probably be ideal...enough to restrict bind rushing, solo ganking, (makes the gankers even want to take a buddy or two along) and not enough to deter serious PvP. On the other hand, there should also be XP for PvP kills. (Also reduced to avoid alt-killing for leveling. Just enough to promote PvP)

All the tired arguments about deleveling, CC, griefing...they all result from stupidity. There are just too many ways to circumvent someone causing you "grief". (Unless the CC is intended for corpse rot...and yeah, there are boneheads that will poopsock a corpse that long. That's the only case in which I can see any justification for GM intervention).

Hotzones would still be good for normal XP boosts, and they would promote PvP as a side benefit.

[XiakenjaTZ]

Start it like the staff of p1999 wants to. make adjustments later if they decide to (you can even adjust the xp post leveling)

[Kope]

Start it like the staff of p1999 wants to. make adjustments later if they decide to (you can even adjust the xp post leveling)

I like this point. Like you guys have said before, when you first introduced P99 everyone said "classic only will diminish population"..."slow exp rates will diminish population"... and so on

You guys understand what's going on. Lets do it!

[XiakenjaTZ]

I was not 100% clear. If they adjusted the xp say 5 months in, you may log in on your 45 shaman and discover he is 49. Thats what I mean by adjust it. The only people an XP change would "hurt" post leveling is someone who is max 60.

Even then, if they announced it they could always make some essence emeralds knowing what was coming.

This server should be ready to go. Lets launch this!

[Harrison]

Lol vztzjects think they know what is good for a server

"COPY VZTZ THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL RIGHT?!"

Give it up failures.

[Nirgon]

imo the people up till 5 am like myself are more likely to cc you kill you naked and train you =)

Right so let the players handle it, not have a full petition queue that a GM "is required to respond to".

Classic xp is good and hey, its classic like it was. Death penalty can go either way. It does discourage bind rushing and helps people know when "it's time to stop messing with those guys and their camp".

It also can promote bind camping or an incentive to harass another player. But hey, it's a pvp server. It would just kind of suck to have people looking for rezzes after pvp deaths.

[Envious]

Not reading thread.

But anyone stating "VZ/TZ experience backs up we need 500% exp" obviously is ignoring that fact that VZ/TZ had to get wiped 3? 4? times. Bans were meaningless cause you could get to 60 in 1 day with just your 2 boxes. And there was zero reason to go into any dungeons save for the ones used to PL.

P99 exp is perfect. Quit whining you faggots. Annoying to see all these supposed "hard core" PK'ers crying.

Slower exp helps with server longevity. Slow exp is classic~

Rofl @ EQ Legend Macken

[Nirgon]

You also might want a disclaimer to the server on the decided rules, hopefully and possibly regarding what GMs will and will not respond to, what happens on death, you're at fault if you go AFK at bind etc. Clear expectancies for losing your camp to pvp.. should be obvious but you'll want to cover your bases. Changing or making up rules as you go long will hurt the most.

[God-King Abacab]

aba why do you care your just gonna get shit on again till you quit and qq on the forums a week and go back to blue .....again....anyone have the screenshot of his clerics corpses last box in fp?

Remember that time I 1v2'd your wizard/cleric box on Rallon Zek... Manacannon my ass you were more like a manadartgun. You sure talk a lot of shit when everyone knows you can't PvP without full sky/VP gear and a crew of 30 basement dwellers to back you up.

Sit the fuck down son before I free cast while you attempt to nuke my pet down




EDIT:
Never mind I found it

http://i55.tinypic.com/2z8rk9g.jpg

[Civeal]

There's something everyone is forgetting,

there's a few things we know about the server about exp, we don't even know it's rate, if it has been decided.

what we know, it's that there will be an exp loss through Player Vs. Player combat, what does this mean? this mean, they want a penalty for dying in such manner.

Now ask yourself one question, if the exp rate is fast, won't this punishment be meaningless?

What everyone remember about the original EQ experience, it was a pain in the ass when you died, made your character worth something to your eyes, and the others people eyes.

so, your life will be precious, when you will kill someone or get killed by someone, it will actually mean something, not just a yellow text, that no one cares about (sorry derailing).

so, from where i stand, i can see the reasons of a slow exp rate. either make people lose 1 level each time they die in PvP (exagerating), or make the small loss mean something by making it hard to acquire.

What's the price for your time? everyone has their own.

[Moonzi]

<3 Civ

[Lasher]

about 33.50 an hour is my price

[Galacticus]

To post something more constructive:


Exp should be increased because ,

1. People are more willing to pvp if they don't lose so much. Increasing overall pvp interaction between players.

2. Depending on other rules on the server, a faster xp gain can be used to compliment a large death xp penalty for pvp or being pvped on a corpse run.

3. The hardest part about this game is getting started. That is when most people quit. We need to make it easy to have someone establish a character and get attached to something so they stay long term. Having fast xp gives the illusion of progression from a pve perspective even while pvp is making you lose exp.

4. There needs to be a counter weight. If you spend 6 hours to get a yellow bubble, and you get pvped by a group at the entrance zone in, lose half that yellow, then come back for your corpse and get killed on the corpse run and you lose the other yellow. Your losing 6 hours of time for roughly 15 min of play time, in both instances through the group and the corpse run, you didnt stand a chance, there was nothing you could do really. This will happen all the time, and the bigger the death penatly vs gain of exp, the more people will quit.

5. This game is all about dieing. Adding the pvp death penalty on top of this will just add more time to leveling for everyone except the guys who form guilds quickly and outpace the more casual players. Further widening the gap between people with more time and less time to play.


Bottom line:

The faster people level, the more they are willing to pvp and risk their exp loss by pvp death. Promoting more pvp.

Having exp gain on a p99 basis or a classic gain will harm population because the risk vs reward of times spent leveling vs how easily you get killed from pvp means a highly un-motivating enviroment, especially for people who it is hard to level without a group.

[Lazortag]

To post something more constructive:


Exp should be increased because ,

1. People are more willing to pvp if they don't lose so much. Increasing overall pvp interaction between players.

2. Depending on other rules on the server, a faster xp gain can be used to compliment a large death xp penalty for pvp or being pvped on a corpse run.

3. The hardest part about this game is getting started. That is when most people quit. We need to make it easy to have someone establish a character and get attached to something so they stay long term. Having fast xp gives the illusion of progression from a pve perspective even while pvp is making you lose exp.

4. There needs to be a counter weight. If you spend 6 hours to get a yellow bubble, and you get pvped by a group at the entrance zone in, lose half that yellow, then come back for your corpse and get killed on the corpse run and you lose the other yellow. Your losing 6 hours of time for roughly 15 min of play time, in both instances through the group and the corpse run, you didnt stand a chance, there was nothing you could do really. This will happen all the time, and the bigger the death penatly vs gain of exp, the more people will quit.

5. This game is all about dieing. Adding the pvp death penalty on top of this will just add more time to leveling for everyone except the guys who form guilds quickly and outpace the more casual players. Further widening the gap between people with more time and less time to play.


Bottom line:

The faster people level, the more they are willing to pvp and risk their exp loss by pvp death. Promoting more pvp.

Having exp gain on a p99 basis or a classic gain will harm population because the risk vs reward of times spent leveling vs how easily you get killed from pvp means a highly un-motivating enviroment, especially for people who it is hard to level without a group.

This is a reason not to have exp loss on a pvp death, not a reason to increase the exp rate.

[Galacticus]

This is a reason not to have exp loss on a pvp death, not a reason to increase the exp rate.

Both values are relative to each other. The gain of exp vs the loss in pvp.

The difference between the two is that the gain of exp is strictly pve related, where as the loss of exp from death occurs in both pvp and pve scenarios.

The idea that pvp has a penalty is good. It gives a concequence to pvp.

The idea that you lose shit loads of hours of time from a pvp death completely not related to how well you can do pve is bad. Especially bad for classes that suck at pve without a group or cannot solo.

[mitic]

the journey is the reward

this is not an arena type game. being 50 in no time makes the game boring. i had the best pvp experience while leveling

granted, pvp max lvl at raids is fun, but just half the fun.

[georgie]

p99 exp can work as long as there is a suffcient population to support grouping. No one knows what the populatin will be like. Concerns i have is if the active population on red99 during peak hours is around 100 after the hype of it being a new server disappears. 100 maintained population during peak is a success imo compared to previous pvp servers but is that enough?

I dont think p99 exp will deter people from playing on red99 but i think the possible lack of high populatin that p99 experiences will hurt realistic grouping and that in turn will either turn people away or make them play a class they dont want to.

Right now everything is speculation. If red99 comes out and there is 300-400 people always on then i wouldnt give a shit what exp rate is. If you log on and there is 100 people spread around the world you have to hope there is enough people in your lvl range that will group with you or you got to roll a solo class

i think the fact that this will be the first "good" pvp CLASSIC server out...that people from live will actually come to play a legit server. and also people who quit both live and eqemu due to server limitation might ACTUALLY come back to play this "good" CLASSIC pvp server. "good" meaning legit, legit meaning hosted by rogean and nilbog

[Rushmore]

p99 exp can work as long as there is a suffcient population to support grouping. No one knows what the populatin will be like. Concerns i have is if the active population on red99 during peak hours is around 100 after the hype of it being a new server disappears. 100 maintained population during peak is a success imo compared to previous pvp servers but is that enough?

I dont think p99 exp will deter people from playing on red99 but i think the possible lack of high populatin that p99 experiences will hurt realistic grouping and that in turn will either turn people away or make them play a class they dont want to.

Right now everything is speculation. If red99 comes out and there is 300-400 people always on then i wouldnt give a shit what exp rate is. If you log on and there is 100 people spread around the world you have to hope there is enough people in your lvl range that will group with you or you got to roll a solo class

THIS.

I hope lvling is difficult but if the population is not there up the exp rate.

[Galacticus]

the journey is the reward

this is not an arena type game. being 50 in no time makes the game boring. i had the best pvp experience while leveling

granted, pvp max lvl at raids is fun, but just half the fun.

If that were true, you would just level characters to 49 over and over again on this new pvp server right? Cause being 50 sucks so much.

[Galacticus]

THIS.

I hope lvling is difficult but if the population is not there up the exp rate.

There is also no way of knowing who is going to group with who, or if it will be every man for himself if you aren't in a guild.

The idea to change the exp rate AFTER people have leveled for some time will just be a kick in the face to those who have already went through the tougher process.

Like lasher said, having a higher exp rate wouldnt cause people to not play, but having it too slow would definately stop people.

[Rushmore]

All this with a wizard, he must be amazingly godlike at the game just finding everyone wherever they are, it's simply magical.

On topic:

Anyone who thinks slow exp would hurt the server pop is an idiot, i'd say the slower the better.

The fast exp formula has been tried and tested in many different ways on vz tz and has proven to fail miserably at keeping hackers out etc.

It's also nice having an actual punishment for dieing in pve, while exp is worth a lot on p99 it wasn't worth shit on vz/tz ever. Remember training over and over with your naked lvl 60th? Well that shit might actually hurt you on P99 red, cause you'll care about your hard earned exp.

I have absolutely no problem in exping for a year and invest a shit ton of time into my character, as long as i know this shit isn't gonna get wiped when the trolls feels like it should.

I simply say, the slower the exp, the better for the pop (the pop that actually wants to play eq and not just logon, grief and log off).

PS. I also support EXP DEATH on PVP, even with slow as fuck exp, the more consequence on dieing, the more fun, however i do not support item loot since some classes are garbage without good loots. Dieing should be felt.

Mr Smed. Why would you support EXP Loss on PVP death?

That would discourage people from PVP who would normally try to fight someone but won't; fearing xp loss. (same as item loot imo)

and also increase griefing.

The game is going to be hard enough. Most people don't realize that death on RED99 will hurt substantially (Not talking directly to you Smedy)

We don't need the extra loss on PVP deaths. It would also increase so many negative outcomes. Most importantly population.

Any rule that can protect the population is a good one imo.

Hope you're doing ok pal.

[nalkin]

Wow Galacticus is a moron... I can't wait to kill him.

[Bardalicious]

I believe i speak for everyone by saying that much is crystal clear. If that is not the staff's position. It would be wise for them to state so now and furthermore, state their reasoning for offering up such short-sighted, ingorant and god-awful rules.

I believe it's safe to assume that you speak for very few, you sad, angry troll. This isn't VZTZ. Stop pretending like you have a viable reputation for swaying the decisions of the server staff here into making it into another VZTZ.

You had your boxes to shit up, and shit up you did. Continue believing that your PVP behavior makes you a legend and through that you are somehow capable of convincing the P99 staff into creating the server that Macken wants, and I'll continue laughing in your face.

Btw - nice ban brah.

[Convict]

and the thread welcomes another idiot

[Bardalicious]

and the thread welcomes another idiot

[Smedy]

Mr Smed. Why would you support EXP Loss on PVP death?

That would discourage people from PVP who would normally try to fight someone but won't; fearing xp loss. (same as item loot imo)

and also increase griefing.

Well PVP will happen no matter if you chase it down or not. EQ has all content open for everyone and if you want the content (items/camps) you'll gonna have to contest to get them. So in order to actually get anywhere you'll have to pvp on a server with decent pop.

I do tend to agree that exp loss on pvp is a little bit harsh but i do think it should apply to raid zones, to prevent obvious faggotry bind rushing etc.

All i'm saying is that i'd rather see slow exp + exp death then fast exp + exp death. Fast exp has been tested over and over on vz tz and the only reason slow exp failed on vz tz was because they already lost our trust by wiping the fucking thing 2 times (before they made it slow, lost count how many times it was wiped in total).

P99 has everyones faith, they can make it slow, people will play no matter what they say now.

[Lasher]

Personally I am fine with pvp exp loss but i wonder if it will just put the less skilled and less organized at an even greater disadvantage. In my experiences the weak die more than the strong

I see it similar to item loot where it will create a bigger gap between the sharks and minnows.

Put in item loot and exp loss imo

[Amuk]

Exp loss on pvp deaths wow heh, well I guess a guild will come and dominate people hard for the first while, and then people will stop trying to contest them until they either get bored/stop logging in - then there may be a shift in power. Sounds gay.

[raptorak]

Well I'm gonna give up on EQ if the exp is as slow as p99 - I just don't have the time to level as slow as that and I'm not rolling anything other than Troll SK.

[Amuk]

That's the point of it, you don't grind it in a day/week. In theory there will be lots of people to fight as you level with the proper population. I can see pro's and con's for both - but if your char will be around for years like p99 then you should shut the fuck up and suck it up kid.

[raptorak]

Nah I'm not going to be around for years and am just expressing my opinion - take your own advice Amuk.

[Doors]

I dunno why people aren't arguing for better exp rates considering this is gonna be a red box with exp loss on pvp death.

Death rates for people are going to be a shit ton higher than on a blue box.

[Amuk]

Can someone link where Nilbog said for sure it's exp loss on pvp death? I only see speculation but maybe I'm missing the thread?

[Lasher]

What if the exp loss was around 5%, with a hypothetical population of around 500-750? I imagine the numbers will be very high to begin with, then taper off.



He hasnt said for sure but what he has said makes it seem like its more probable than not

[Amuk]

I've been dodged so many times over YT, can just imagine the dodging from Exp loss fear.

Maybe I'm just going off about something that's insignificant, 5% will = just under a blue? I mean if you go low it's pointless, if you go higher it's beyond harsh. I can't imagine all the secondary rules that will be required to support this - you'll need to police corpse camping much more so, since killing a naked person is actually rewarding if you hate the fuck. Since noone can plug holy smokes any naked player I see is going to get shit on - getting rage spam is hilarious. Guild binds, can't wait for all the fuckers waiting at those spots to gank naked people till they /q and still get killed a couple more times before disapearing.

Why would you make more tools to grief the shitty weak players I really don't get this.

Mass edits omg, at 45 my ogre war on p99 it took me 11 hours to get through 45 at royals, that's roughly 2 hours 10 mins per yellow, just around 25 mins of lost grinding time(with the best exp camp and a well rounded grp we cleared noble/royals/window/solatunnel) per pvp death at 45, I'm sure non hell levels won't be as bad but I can just imagine the ragequits about to go down.

[Smedy]

Gotta say after reading this thread more and seeing Lashers point i resent my view on exp death for pvp. It's gonna be like Lasher said which isn't a good thing for the server pop.

I'd prefer a server with p99 exp rate, and no exp death for pvp and coin loot.

Hopefully no training but yet again i know how hard it is to police, and i really hate when pvp comes a fraps fest on the forums, so either you get a good way to police it or you just play no rules so everyone (not just the sneaky ones) can train.

[Rushmore]

Gotta say after reading this thread more and seeing Lashers point i resent my view on exp death for pvp. It's gonna be like Lasher said which isn't a good thing for the server pop.

I'd prefer a server with p99 exp rate, and no exp death for pvp and coin loot.

Hopefully no training but yet again i know how hard it is to police, and i really hate when pvp comes a fraps fest on the forums, so either you get a good way to police it or you just play no rules so everyone (not just the sneaky ones) can train.

Yeah I said that. Someone wants in more than me :confused:

[Lasher]

Team Lasher Smedy

[Aenor]

Hurting server population no longer has any validity for me.

That rationale, with nothing to back it up, has been overused.

Can't you see it devastated Blue 99's pop?

[Smedy]

Yeah I said that. Someone wants in more than me :confused:

It took more then a faithful whistle to convince me, it took a lasher

[vinx]

I was excited about the pvp xp loss > item loot
but, like smedy im starting to reconsider also
(still sorta like the idea but eh)

Its great for deterring those that dont want to LnS or slowing gank soloers
but.. in the scheme of it all, it might not be that great of an implementation /shrug

[Bardalicious]

XP Loss on PVP death is likely to deter PVP more so than item looting since you can bag items. The only reason I would support xp death is if item loot and/or coin loot was out of the question. The death still needs a punishment behind it. I just think xp death is the least viable of those 3. But it sounds like preventing PVP or making people really reconsider it might be what they are shooting for with the server.

I can see the angle, I just think item loot is a much better option to obtain the balance that was seen on vanilla RZ. I figured nilbog would have agree'd having played there.

[Humerox]

Problem is, you guys are looking at it as if solo ganks are gonna have the same latitude they did on the boxes.

They won't.

My projection is that a lot of them will ragequit, because they just won't be able to handle the pain and devastating humiliation.

[vinx]

But it sounds like preventing PVP or making people really reconsider it might be what they are shooting for with the server.
I think it was said, idk what thread now :(
something along the lines of "PVE server with an option to PVP"
which is still cool im my book.

im still torn between xp loss on pvp or not
but like i said im cool with whtever comes out as long as rogean/nilbog are running the show

[Arclyte]

If there is going to be no item loot (which is a good thing), the only consequence for dying is the corpse run. Personally, I think having 0 xp loss is the wrong call, as it makes dying feel shallow.

I think mild XP loss is in order here. Nowhere near the same as dying to a mob, but enough to where dying actually means something.

Really, this conversation comes down to: Do we protect the newbs in order to maintain a "healthy" server pop, or do we have a meaningful consequence for death?

What's the magic number of XP loss to where a newb will still continue to play?

[Muaar]

first pvp death of the day counts as full loss but subsequent don't maybe? would certainly make people try to avoid dieing but eliminate xp griefing which is a horrible downside given how long it takes to level up in comparison to most games these days.

[Civeal]

Actually, there's a possibility exp death in PvP will unite the people with less organisation and skill, which will actually make them stronger, unlike Lasher stated.

Thing is, you can't know unless you run it.

[Sniperfire]

Actually, there's a possibility exp death in PvP will unite the people with less organisation and skill, which will actually make them stronger, unlike Lasher stated.

Thing is, you can't know unless you run it.

there is also the chance that purple spiders of giant size will come forth from the sky shitting thc pellets too, but its unlikely

[mitic]

0% exp loss upon pvp death feels wowesque and i hate wow with a passion

i want it challenging, i want it unforgiving, i want pvp-everquest in its truest form and not dumbed down as some forum QQ-kiddies want it to be.

[Sniperfire]

i want people to kill also there was no exp loss in pvp on any server i remember

[mitic]

..there was no exp loss in pvp on any server i remember

u sir, are completely wrong, just dont post upon your personal speculations :P

srsly guys, this is a mens game and not hello kitty online. if you cant take the heat and consequences on red then stay on blue p99

[Sniperfire]

what sever had pvp exp loss ohhh wise one

[mitic]

what sever had pvp exp loss ohhh wise one

exp loss occurred on the best pvp server ever made: sullon zek

you should know that since uve been in hate, rite ? ;o)

[Bardalicious]

Discord, one of the best PVP servers ever made, also had some pretty heavy xp loss. The heaviest you can get actually.

The fact that you know nothing about this is pretty astonishing when you are here arguing to make changes to a PVP server that we want to last longer than any VZTZ incarnation.

[Sniperfire]

i played on sullon zek and the was no exp loss to pvp hence the term xp killed i never once in like 8 years lost a lvl due to pvp

arent you the fucking idiot who said there was a lvl range there as well?

[Sniperfire]

Discord, one of the best PVP servers ever made, also had some pretty heavy xp loss. The heaviest you can get actually.

The fact that you know nothing about this is pretty astonishing when you are here arguing to make changes to a PVP server that we want to last longer than any VZTZ incarnation.
'
your right discord had exp penalties and lasted what a couple of weeks?

[Bloodfart]

I played on Sullon Zek from the start and for about another year and half and don't recall exp loss in pvp deaths.

I remember training people or abusing bard charm to make suckers eat exp loss if i wanted but by default there was no exp loss for players killing players.

Only coin and deity token loot.

[Sniperfire]

Sullon Zek

Flowers of Happiness



Recommendation:
If the idea of leveling and camping items doesn't bother you, and the thought of a level 60 killing a level 12 sounds fun, then Sullon Zek is for you.

Why?:
Sullon Zek rewards players for leveling. The higher level you get, the more powerful you are in relation to other players, regardless of your class. Also, as a Flower of Happiness, it's easier to level here than Rallos, because you have an entire team to support you.

There is no PvP item-looting, so camping your own items, or buying them from other players is required.

PvP Rules:
There are no PvP rules that aren't hard coded into the game. Train, bind camp, whatever. If you can do it, it's legal.

PvP immunity until level 6 *in newbie zones only*
*The rule made because of Fansy

No PvP level limits. But there are team limits, you may not attack players on your own team.

Teams:
There are 3 teams, and they are chosen by deity. Players on opposite teams may not help each other (no cross-teaming, the problem that destroyed Vallon & Tallon zek). There is no cross-guilding either, so if you join evil or neutral, you are not allowed to be in Flowers of Happiness.

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare

The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek

The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

Each team attracts a certain type of player:

Evil: (70% of the playerbase)
OH kewl I can be lvl 60 and kil level 2?! AWESOME! Time to hang up level 32 druid on Fennin Ro, I'm moving to Sullon! I will BE EVIL iksar and be the terror of Freeport! Oh ho hho ho this is gonna be l33t i'll kill those gay fag newbs! I'M PURE EVIL! DEATH 6666!

Neutral: (23% of the playerbase)
I'd never play on a blue server, because I have balls. PvP is how I earn the respect of other players. I read the PvP 101 rules by Myndpyre everyday. Skill is everything. Sure I'm allowed to train and corpse camp, but I'm above such "blue" forms of combat. I never kill greens (unless they're being gay), and I rarely kill evens. I only attack full groups of reds. And I win every time, without using weapons. Or spells. And one arm tied behind my back. Go back to your blue server newbies, I'm the PvP God.

Good: (7% of the playerbase)
WHERE IS THE PALADIN GUILD????


Flowers of Happiness chose to be on the good team. Not because we like the good team, but because we like to kill the other two.

PvP Risk / Reward:
You may kill anyone, but if you kill somebody below or above 5 levels, then you get nothing. People who are within 5 levels of you con white. If you kill a white, you may loot the money they have on them and an "insignia". Nothing else (no items). "Insignia" are supposed to do something, but most don't. You can turn in certain types for a summon corpse potion. If you kill a white-con, they lose experience.

PvE Risk / Reward: Compared to other servers, you gain 20% more XP per kill, and XP lost upon death is 50% less than normal (for both PvP and PvE deaths).

Faction:
Same as Rallos. If you kill someone in their hometown, you lose faction with the NPCs there.

Community:
The majority of Sullon Zek embraces PvP. If there's a chance to kill someone, they'll take it. Like Rallos Zek, most players are assholes, and unlike Rallos Zek, they admit it. The easiest kills are low-mid level evil team players, since they rarely wear resist equipment. But the most powerful players are high-level evils.ment. But the most powerful players are high-level evils.



i pulled this from FOH recruitment board i have no problem admitting when im wrong but i will say this exp loss was so small i never noticed it in literaly years of playing on the server but then again i prob wasnt coined as often as you

[mitic]

i played on sullon zek and the was no exp loss to pvp hence the term xp killed i never once in like 8 years lost a lvl due to pvp
arent you the fucking idiot who said there was a lvl range there as well?



Sullon Zek

Flowers of Happiness


/snip

PvP Risk / Reward:
You may kill anyone, but if you kill somebody below or above 5 levels, then you get nothing. People who are within 5 levels of you con white. If you kill a white, you may loot the money they have on them and an "insignia". Nothing else (no items). "Insignia" are supposed to do something, but most don't. You can turn in certain types for a summon corpse potion. If you kill a white-con, they lose experience.
/snip

now do the following:

1.) print this thread out
2.) eat it

also:

i am a fucking idiot

[Tajin]

are you goin to make us grind like dogs? this will hurt server pop

I think secrets has a vztz server back up... go play on that shit if u cant handle the grind!! or play better

[Sniperfire]

i said i was wrong man or cant you read it was just so small it wasnt noticed by me and like i said before i prob wasnt coined as often as you
i went out found proof i was wrong and posted it admitting my mistake and you go off like some little kid rofl get your kicks buddy

[Sniperfire]

I think secrets has a vztz server back up... go play on that shit if u cant handle the grind!! or play better
this thread isnt about whether i can handle the grind i have no concerns about me staying on the server ill be there its other people id like to stick around this time try actually reading the thread before you post



PvP Risk / Reward:
You may kill anyone, but if you kill somebody below or above 5 levels, then you get nothing. People who are within 5 levels of you con white. If you kill a white, you may loot the money they have on them and an "insignia". Nothing else (no items). "Insignia" are supposed to do something, but most don't. You can turn in certain types for a summon corpse potion. If you kill a white-con, they lose experience.

PvE Risk / Reward: Compared to other servers, you gain 20% more XP per kill, and XP lost upon death is 50% less than normal (for both PvP and PvE deaths).


something to consider all im saying

[mitic]

i said i was wrong man or cant you read it was just so small it wasnt noticed by me and like i said before i prob wasnt coined as often as you
i went out found proof i was wrong and posted it admitting my mistake and you go off like some little kid rofl get your kicks buddy

my post: Today 03:17 PM (my timezone) mitic

your edit: Last edited by Sniperfire; Today at 03:19 PM (my timezone)..


dude, you keep making a fool of yourself, just stop posting

[Sniperfire]

my post: Today 03:17 PM (my timezone) mitic

your edit: Last edited by Sniperfire; Today at 03:19 PM (my timezone)..


dude, you keep making a fool of yourself, just stop posting



the only reason that was edited was to put more space between them so it wasnt missed by more idiots like you in the future man

[Sniperfire]

just open the server so i can kill this lame

[mitic]

the only reason that was edited was to put more space between them so it wasnt missed by more idiots like you in the future man

i bet you havent even been in hate and neither on sullon zek. am i rite or am i rite?

[Envious]

I read the PvP 101 rules by Myndpyre everyday.

Lol, Myndpyre.

[Nirgon]

What this all boils down to is that some people want a classic experience, some want custom (more like vztz: yellow text, global ooc).

What you also have to consider is who is just going to play anyway regardless of if they get their way or not and what is best for the server.

Classic is good for the server (xp included).

The real debate should be GM enforcement of rules, how severe and what is enforceable.

[Bardalicious]

Sniperfire - just another perfect example of EQEmu PVP "pro" that should not have any input on Red 99.