Punish Harder. Delete items.

[Slave]

"The young are idealistic, and love justice. The old are wicked, and love mercy."

I used MapHack on Diablo 2.

That said, Diablo 2 was really an anonymous kind of gigantic video game with an asston of people, all using MapHack. Everquest and especially P99 is a different beast entirely.

I feel that the people who cheated on P99 betrayed our community. These were people that we know, people that we grouped with and people that we argued with on forums. We are not legion.

There were those who had a lot of money... and then there were those who turned that money into items. There is really no difference. About 99% of the items in the game can be bought with platinum. There are those who were highly liquidated, and then there are those who had already bought a lot of items with their ill-gotten gains. For those players, the punishment amounts to almost nothing.

They run around with things like Fungus Tunics and Manastones. They deserve to have their accounts banned, but the server people have decided to let them off lightly. Too lightly, in my not-even-close-to-objective opinion. (I play as hard as hell to win.)

All items on all cheating accounts should be removed. These are the people that we competed with for rare spawns and items on a daily basis, and they had a major, unfair advantage.

Remove their items. All of them.

[Jacko]

/agree

or server wipe !

[Convict]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Chanter4Sale]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

Thats gonna give me nightmares tonight, But i think the message is clear

[Sjet]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

This sums up my reaction.

[purist]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Slave]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

Creepy Jack Nicholson nodding is fucking awesome.

[Doors]

Totally agree.

[Demetrium]

I don't mind them keeping no-trade items, but I agree on stripping money items. You don't know how many fungi tunics, et all these clowns are rolling around with. Would be almost no problem to get back into the economy.

[Knuckle]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Feachie]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[KentalCowtipper]

I 110% agree.

IMO Let the cheaters play in 2 weeks with their 25% exp loss.. let them keep their no drop stuff but EVERYTHING else should be stripped. It can't be determined what was gained through cheating and what wasn't. It has been acknowledged, by stripping plat, that the cheaters gained economically and therefore deserve to be punished economically.

How much does stripping plat economically punish a cheater who had 10k plat.. but a fungi + ton of other stuff? It doesn't at all.

Wipe all no drop items from their cheating asses please.

[mokfarg]

This seems like a reasonable request for the integrity of the server.

[Jomar]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

at the very least, delete the items they have in their chest, legs, back, waist, primary, and secondary slots (basically the core slots for high-value items).

for most of the people that were suspended, re-obtaining the levels and platinum they lost isn't going to be an issue as it's something they can pretty much do on their own. but by removing the above items, it would make it more difficult for those people to integrate themselves back into the server population and their guilds. groups/guilds will think twice about re-awarding planar/god/dragon loot to known cheaters that already had it stripped from them once before. so guilds would be questioning the character of these cheaters much more, which is only fitting since those people felt it was acceptable to put their guild's reputation at risk by using mq2/myseq for personal benefit.

[Chanter4Sale]

This seems like a reasonable request for the integrity of the server.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

lol just cant get enough of it.

[purist]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[vinx]

bet they are dropping goods on another account
on a just in case assumption in fear of these threads :D
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[porigromus]

bet they are dropping goods on another account
on a just in case assumption in fear of these threads :D

Aren't the accounts in question banned for 2 weeks? I doubt they will be able to get any items off of these accounts.

[vinx]

Aren't the accounts in question banned for 2 weeks? I doubt they will be able to get any items off of these accounts.
true!
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif
for the accounts in question
+ theres others who slipped thru the dragnet and are prolly paranoid atm

[Runningfish]

"The young are idealistic, and love justice. The old are wicked, and love mercy."

I used MapHack on Diablo 2.


Instantly your opinion means less to me. Calling out for punishment for cheating while admitting to hacking in a far more competitive game?

While I wouldn't of been surprised to see this done in the first announcement I doubt it will happen now. And aside from hunter/forager cycle in trak which would be made incredibly easier by having these 3rd party programs I think your vastly overestimating their power to gain people big ticket items. A camp is a camp no matter what. These programs aren't going to make a warrior able to solo frenzy or even a shitty necro able to solo it. People aren't suddenly able to go solo heiro cloaks.

Like I said these programs become especially useful on camps like hunter/forager, quillmane, other outdoor roaming mob camps. They also made a huge advantage for raid guilds trying to get their players mobilized quickly and made it so any guild member could have been a tracker in zone.. That said, TR still seemed to have a shitload of members on today and they are pretty much the number one raid guild on server. Point being if they weren't hacking or at least if it wasn't very prevalent in the guild and are still number one was MQ making that huge of a difference?

Bottom line is if you want a FBSS hacker or not your going to have to be the right class and your going to have to camp it just as long as a normal player. Sure it might save your ass if your a bad player by warping to zone but most people who are solo'ing frenzy aren't overwhelmed by 3 frogs every 30 minutes. Same goes for almost every other high end item in the game aside from the ones I listed above. Also aside from my comments specifically on raiding I'm not taking into account groups of players all hacking together to get items. I am speaking specifically to address the people who think MQ was giving people the ability to attain fungi's or heiro cloaks solo.

Everyone on both sides needs to chill out.. It's a game I hope you have bigger problems in your life.

[bakkily]

yea i agree with wiping items, the post above mine sounds like he's one of the cheaters that got away with it

[Roanoke]

Instantly your opinion means less to me. Calling out for punishment for cheating while admitting to hacking in a far more competitive game?

While I wouldn't of been surprised to see this done in the first announcement I doubt it will happen now. And aside from hunter/forager cycle in track which would be made incredibly easier by having these 3rd party programs I think your vastly overestimating their power to gain people big ticket items. A camp is a camp no matter what. These programs aren't going to make a warrior able to solo frenzy or even a shitty necro able to solo it. People aren't suddenly able to go solo heiro cloaks.

Like I said these programs become especially useful on camps like hunter/forager, quillmane, other outdoor roaming mob camps. They also made a huge advantage for raid guilds trying to get their players mobilized quickly and made it so any guild member could have been a tracker in zone.. That said, TR still seemed to have a shitload of members on today and they are pretty much the number one raid guild on server. Point being if they weren't hacking or at least if it wasn't very prevalent in the guild and are still number one was MQ making that huge of a difference?

Bottom line is if you want a FBSS hacker or not your going to have to be the right class and your going to have to camp it just as long as a normal player. Sure it might save your ass if your a bad player by warping to zone but most people who are solo'ing frenzy aren't overwhelmed by 3 frogs every 30 minutes. Same goes for almost every other high end item in the game aside from the ones I listed above. Also aside from my comments specifically on raiding I'm not taking into account groups of players all hacking together to get items. I am speaking specifically to address the people who think MQ was giving people the ability to attain fungi's or heiro cloaks solo.

Everyone on both sides needs to chill out.. It's a game I hope you have bigger problems in your life.

I wouldn't expect it to happen either, but given that there are people in EC tunnel shouting about their supply of Fungis awaiting them when their account returns would be enough to make me reconsider. It's unsettling, especially since there was only 3 million plat confiscated.

The point was to punish the cheaters, and the fact that they weren't outright IP banned is more than enough mercy being showed by the devs. Yet, people have to act like fucktards and brag about how this essentially changes nothing.

This is like arresting members of the Mexican drug cartel and saying "We're throwing you in jail for two weeks and taking all the money you had on you. BUT WE'RE NOT CONFISCATING THE TRUCKLOADS OF DRUGS, YOU CAN KEEP THOSE!"

[Harrison]

Diablo 2 competitive? lawl.

I played the game a lot, but it's not competitive at all.

[Crug]

I disagree, they are being punished enough.

I mean I wasn't even insulted that people were cheating, it didn't affect me, and it wasn't like they were turning on godmode and soloing raid mobs.

I think the punishment they are getting is perfectly reasonable, especially since it is a warning to future violators who WILL be banned.

[sellawiz]

agree

[TR Spokesman]

I disagree, they are being punished enough.

I mean I wasn't even insulted that people were cheating, it didn't affect me, and it wasn't like they were turning on godmode and soloing raid mobs.

I think the punishment they are getting is perfectly reasonable, especially since it is a warning to future violators who WILL be banned.

lol future violators will be banned?


previous violators were banned.

They are getting off easier than every person who was previously banned for using the programs. These people caught now were probably using when others got banned for it before. they got caught at a later date, and thus are getting off with practically nothing done to them.

[vageta31]

yea i agree with wiping items, the post above mine sounds like he's one of the cheaters that got away with it

Actually he just sounds like someone who is using logic instead of emotion. It's totally understandable to be mad at those who cheated and want your internet justice, but what he said is for the most part true. Do you honestly think someone that has Fungi tunics got them by clicking on a "fungi tunic" macro and they just appeared in his backpack?

His other statement was spot on too. If most of TR is online and not suspended, then what does that say about the cheaters? If it's that simple to cheat in the game and gain this huge advantage, then why aren't the cheaters the ones with the raid mobs on lockdown?

*crickets*

It is a legitimate question. Perhaps because the cheating wasn't as game breaking as you want to believe and the plat being removed wasn't due to gaining it "illegally", but simply part of the punishment for getting caught?

On one hand people are applauding Rogean for catching the hackers, while on the other they're QQ about how he isn't being harsh enough. The admins are the only ones who truly know exactly what was being done and by who, if they decide this is punishment enough then why not leave well enough alone? I'm not sure which is worse, the cheaters QQ about being caught or the lynch mob QQ about them not being punished enough.

[Vohl]

Stripping items would certainly sting quite a bit more than dumping coin. Some of these items may no longer drop in the game - they'd be forever beyond the reach of PCs. Containers are trade-able, yet may contain No Trade gear. Constructing and testing a query to accomplish item purges amounts to making more work for the GMs. Quite a bit more if you're after something arguably fair.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm fine with the measures the GMs have taken. We want a balance between corrective action and making a lot of additional work for some of the people who provide this game to us.

[Yohindo]

Their Punishment was not harsh enough.

[Demetrium]

Actually he just sounds like someone who is using logic instead of emotion. It's totally understandable to be mad at those who cheated and want your internet justice, but what he said is for the most part true. Do you honestly think someone that has Fungi tunics got them by clicking on a "fungi tunic" macro and they just appeared in his backpack?

His other statement was spot on too. If most of TR is online and not suspended, then what does that say about the cheaters? If it's that simple to cheat in the game and gain this huge advantage, then why aren't the cheaters the ones with the raid mobs on lockdown?

*crickets*

It is a legitimate question. Perhaps because the cheating wasn't as game breaking as you want to believe and the plat being removed wasn't due to gaining it "illegally", but simply part of the punishment for getting caught?


No crickets for thinkers. From what it sounds like there were people who got suspended from the larger guilds; who knows what bosses they were checking with mods? Obviously people aren't chain duping Fungi Tunics, but how many times did these people zone into OS on a server pop and said "Oh shit Fungi King is up, lets go wipe him out". I'd be running around like a kid on Christmas morning on server ups. Hadden up? Pyzjn up? Petrifin up? Bilge up? Do I need to continue?

Your argument is inherently flawed. If it's not such a big advantage, why did 365 accounts get suspended? People wouldn't bother if it wasn't worthwhile. I'm always confused when shit like this happens and people want to go soft and be sympathetic. Don't like the consequences? Don't cheat next time. And for those of you naive enough who think "it's not big deal, it didn't effect me" -- yeah, they didn't walk up and piss in your cheerios, but you can thank them for an altered economy.

[Shrubwise]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Maze513]

Give them all the title "Cheater" so when they return we will always know their shame

[Harrison]

Actually he just sounds like someone who is using logic instead of emotion. It's totally understandable to be mad at those who cheated and want your internet justice, but what he said is for the most part true. Do you honestly think someone that has Fungi tunics got them by clicking on a "fungi tunic" macro and they just appeared in his backpack?

His other statement was spot on too. If most of TR is online and not suspended, then what does that say about the cheaters? If it's that simple to cheat in the game and gain this huge advantage, then why aren't the cheaters the ones with the raid mobs on lockdown?

*crickets*

It is a legitimate question. Perhaps because the cheating wasn't as game breaking as you want to believe and the plat being removed wasn't due to gaining it "illegally", but simply part of the punishment for getting caught?

On one hand people are applauding Rogean for catching the hackers, while on the other they're QQ about how he isn't being harsh enough. The admins are the only ones who truly know exactly what was being done and by who, if they decide this is punishment enough then why not leave well enough alone? I'm not sure which is worse, the cheaters QQ about being caught or the lynch mob QQ about them not being punished enough.

Definitely a hacking piece of shit trying to defend the lax nature of the punishments in server history.

[vageta31]

Your argument is inherently flawed. If it's not such a big advantage, why did 365 accounts get suspended? People wouldn't bother if it wasn't worthwhile. I'm always confused when shit like this happens and people want to go soft and be sympathetic.

Because it was just that easy to do? I'm not saying it wasn't advantageous, I'm saying that it wasn't god mode and a free ticket to the winner's circle. It was "worthwhile" because they thought they wouldn't get caught and probably took no longer than 10 minutes to download and install.

I'm not soft or sympathetic at all and am ok with the punishment, I'm simply not nerd raging like a lot of people are about it. You have a right to be pissed and some of us have a right to be "meh". That's all.

I'm always confused when so many people get into an uproar over pixels on the internet. It's a game. A rather awesome game, but still a game nonetheless. If a game can upset me that much then I'd prefer not to play it in the first place as it doesn't sound healthy.

I killed Hadden many times before Kunark came out trying to get that damn earring. Was never more difficult than zoning in and running for 30 seconds over that little hill by the lake. Cheaters could zone in and look without having to even run. Damnit they're lazy too.

[vageta31]

Definitely a hacking piece of shit trying to defend the lax nature of the punishments in server history.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or pity you honestly. If someone isn't mad enough at cheaters then they are cheaters too? Internet lynch mob mentality at it's finest.

Didn't you stop playing or something? If so why are you so upset at a game you no longer play?

[Rubin]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Runningfish]

The people who are running around EC shouting about how they have stacks of fungi's for when they get back are idiots. The same as the people on here calling everyone that doesn't want to burn the witch a cheating scumbag. Most of those people in EC are lying if not all of them.

I'm guessing that they didn't delete all gear because if they had the server would have taken just as big of a population hit as it would have if they had banned the accounts. This current punishment may not seem harsh at first glance and most people are focusing on the money lost but IMO the experience lost is a much larger punishment. People are asking for a title or a list but the level loss in itself will be enough for any active member of a guild to be spotted and weeded out. If the offenders care at all about their guilds this should be a pretty bad punishment.

Hacking has a negative impact on the server but our population is what keeps the classic feel and IMO it's what needs to be preserved at all costs. I'd be willing to put money down that at least 80% of the people who were suspended stop using MQ or Myseq on this server. Since this new detection seems pretty darn good that other 20 or so % that don't stop will be quickly banned. Personally I think this was the best approach possible.

[polum6666]

The people who are running around EC shouting about how they have stacks of fungi's for when they get back are idiots. The same as the people on here calling everyone that doesn't want to burn the witch a cheating scumbag. Most of those people in EC are lying if not all of them.

I'm guessing that they didn't delete all gear because if they had the server would have taken just as big of a population hit as it would have if they had banned the accounts. This current punishment may not seem harsh at first glance and most people are focusing on the money lost but IMO the experience lost is a much larger punishment. People are asking for a title or a list but the level loss in itself will be enough for any active member of a guild to be spotted and weeded out. If the offenders care at all about their guilds this should be a pretty bad punishment.

Hacking has a negative impact on the server but our population is what keeps the classic feel and IMO it's what needs to be preserved at all costs. I'd be willing to put money down that at least 80% of the people who were suspended stop using MQ or Myseq on this server. Since this new detection seems pretty darn good that other 20 or so % that don't stop will be quickly banned. Personally I think this was the best approach possible.

fucken bullshit delete their fucken toons

[Motec]

lol at jealous kids without fungi's...go farm king baddies.

[Teflon]

.http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Jamuraan]

Here's an idea: Don't buy their Fungis when they come back. One person with 50 fungis can't wear all of them at once. Buy from people who are known to be non-hackers, reputable and trustworthy. Black-balling these cheaters is just as effective as wiping their accounts.

Items are worthless if they can't sell them or trade them.

[Felwithemagi]

Agree with Maze513, or at least a big red 'C' in their name. Like The Scarlet Letter.

[Demetrium]

Here's an idea: Don't buy their Fungis when they come back. One person with 50 fungis can't wear all of them at once. Buy from people who are known to be non-hackers, reputable and trustworthy. Black-balling these cheaters is just as effective as wiping their accounts.

Items are worthless if they can't sell them or trade them.

This isn't feasible. People sell items on alts or could just as easily have a friend auction it. Furthermore, a full list of cheaters was never published (unfortunately).

[cobykoby]

TR still seemed to have a shitload of members on today and they are pretty much the number one raid guild on server. Point being if they weren't hacking or at least if it wasn't very prevalent in the guild and are still number one was MQ making that huge of a difference?


Everyone on both sides needs to chill out.. It's a game I hope you have bigger problems in your life.

You know if members of the same guild are cheating, chances are the guild then had/has an unfair advantage, I'm sure many of the guild members have items gained through the cheating that was used by the suspended members. it's made a difference.

Also, you're allowed to get upset about this sort of thing regardless, stop acting like being upset about a hobby is childish, People were dicks and they should be treated like the flacid members they are, Ridiculed and belittled.

[mala]

It is a legitimate question. Perhaps because the cheating wasn't as game breaking as you want to believe and the plat being removed wasn't due to gaining it "illegally", but simply part of the punishment for getting caught?

ANY amount of cheating on our server is "gamebreaking". Knowing that these people are using tools to help them make this game easier, while everyone else actually plays the game, is a slap in the face to everyone in the community. People claiming that "oh i wasnt hurting anyone else" are simply lieing to themselves, you hurt EVERYONE when you break the rules here.

And furthermore, any defense you have against cheaters using "non-gamebreaking" tools, is utterly retarded. You think that having a map that shows you where every mob in the zone is up, and paths, isnt an advantage?

Im for deleting ALL of these peoples gear, they didnt aquire their gear legitimately, and shouldnt be able to keep it.

And lastly. Im sure 90% of these people caught cheating were waiting for progression and more content(just as we all are), which has now digressed even further due to the fact they are trying to get ahead of the curve, and GM's are having to police that. This also effects everyone, so simply saying "oo i dont cheat what do i care" is irresponsible at best.

[stormlord]

Give them all the title "Cheater" so when they return we will always know their shame
+1.

I agree. Put a cheaper tag on their name like "CHTR Bob Smith [Orios]".

Or release the names of the characters on their account.

This way people know who they're and if they make other accounts they will be recognized.

Every single one of these guys/gals knew that they were taking a chance when they were running MQ2 or whatever it was. They did it for the thrill and the potential for an advantage in their game. IF we don't properly apply justice to the matter then it will encourage them to take an even bigger risk. Remember, life to these people is about risk. Lots. If there's no BITE then there's no risk. Therefore, with no risk, there's no fun. They will increase the stakes if the bite is too small. Increasing the stakes will increase the risks for them, and US.

But more important than that, they must know that their actions harm ALL OF US. That's the heart of the matter and it's the current approach some people take to dealing with cheaters. Let me just say to them: you harmed game balance. Game balance is at the core of all games. It ensures that progression and competition are present. It's kind of like a basketball hoop being 10 feet up. That's the game of basketball. But what if each person that plays can make the hoop be at whatever height they want when they take a shot? Every shot in the game would take a minute because they'd have to readjust the height of the hoop for each player. The game would be a lot less competitive because everyone would be playing by different rules. It would be a very different game, one in which everyone can win. Let me ask you: how can a game be competitive and also allow everyone to win? Furthermore, progression is a defining characteristic of games. If you're able break the rules then that means you can skip progression altogether. Your ability to skip progression, via the economy, allows others to skip it as well. This is like a shock wave that spreads all across the game world. Eventually, progression would become zero as the economy is filled with loot that was acquired illicitly. If you could skip from level 1 to 60, then I ask you, where is hte progression? Because that's essentially what cheaters are doing to the game. If there's no 1 to 60 then there's no game! Do you get it yet? You're destroying the game.

By destroying the game, you're reducing the fun you can have in it because you're inevitably eating away at the player base. This reminds me of pvp servers. They have a similar mentality. They think they can remorsely kill each other and that there will be an eternal flow of players to the server. Unfortunately, their careless behavior inevitably adds to server decline in much the same way that hacking or cheating can ruin the core elements of a game and contribute to its eventual decay. When a game decays, YOU will decay too, along with it! There's no thrill or risk when a game is almost dead. That's like winning a match with nobody to cheer.

My guess is a lot of the cheaters are sociopaths/psychopaths or anti-socials. If you research these terms on google you will see what they actually mean. No, psychopath is not a crazy genocidal murderer. Neither is an anti-social a shy person. Rather, these people are smooth criminals that have no shame or guilt when they cheat or lie or steal. The true meaning of anti-social is that of a person whom breaks the social rules and trust without remorse. A pscyhopath can be a serial killer just as much as he can be a kingpin or a car salesman.

Learn more here:
http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

It will open your eyes to more than you might have bargained for.

Here are my two favorite sections in the link:
It's also found practical applications in police-squad rooms. Soon after he delivered a keynote speech at a conference for homicide detectives and prosecuting attorneys in Seattle three years ago, Hare got a letter thanking him for helping solve a series of homicides. The police had a suspect nailed for a couple of murders, but believed he was responsible for others. They were using the usual strategy to get a confession, telling him, 'Think how much better you'll feel, think of the families left behind,' and so on. After they'd heard Hare speak they realized they were dealing with a psychopath, someone who could feel neither guilt nor sorrow. They changed their interrogation tactic to, "So you murdered a couple of prostitutes. That's minor-league compared to Bundy or Gacy." The appeal to the psychopath's grandiosity worked. He didn't just confess to his other crimes, he bragged about them.

The most startling finding to emerge from Hare's work is that the popular image of the psychopath as a remorseless, smiling killer -- Paul Bernardo, Clifford Olson, John Wayne Gacy -- while not wrong, is incomplete. Yes, almost all serial killers, and most of Canada's dangerous offenders, are psychopaths, but violent criminals are just a tiny fraction of the psychopaths around us. Hare estimates that 1 percent of the population -- 300,000 people in Canada -- are psychopaths.
.................
Hare has co-developed a new treatment program specifically for violent psychopaths, using what he knows about the psychopathic personality. The idea is to encourage them to be better by appealing not to their (non-existent) altruism but to their (abundant) self-interest.

"It's not designed to change personality, but to modify behaviour by, among other things, convincing them that there are ways they can get what they want without harming others," Hare explains. The program will try to make them understand that violence is bad, not for society, but for the psychopath himself. (Look where it got you: jail.) A similar program will soon be put in place for psychopathic offenders in the UK.

[Extunarian]

I was surprised the devs didn't strip droppables along with coin, but they probably thought about it a lot more than I have, or care to.

Someone with an RBG in the bank is gonna come back from their suspension and make more plat selling that item than I will make before Velious. It does seem unfair to the guy who happened to sell his RBG on Friday.

[Prahadigm24]

I've got to agree with OP. We have to assume that those cheaters gained an advantage of much more than the (average) 8,000 plat which have been removed from the game. Those 8,000 plat only correspond to 1 or 2 rare items, and I don't want to know how many of the cheaters' items have been collected with the help of ShowEQ. After their suspension they will still wear many "cheated" items.


I understand that the devs don't want to drive away all those 365 players, because the server needs a healthy population. That is why a permanent ban or character deletion would have been too much. Nevertheless, they should not be allowed to keep (all of their) items.

You should have stripped them of all their items and equipped them with a full set of cloth armor and a rusty short sword / dagger. This would give them a "clean", new start.

[Kevlar]

I can see not doing an ip ban, sort of.

But why such a lienient punishment? Just coin and a couple levels? Even item wiping seems a little soft.

Should have done a complete character wipe. Let them start over at lvl 1 with a practice sword. Make them think twice about firing up that macroquest zone map.

[inyane]

right? why not perm bans, as per the rules of the server?

so what, the server loses that many accounts. according to posts i've seen since i've been playing, the devs have stated many times that they would have this server up if only 5 people played on it.

so why do they care if the server population takes a hit? why do these people get a pass?

we can only assume that many of the players caught are in raiding guilds, and god knows we can't mess with the raiding guilds!

[superapan]

McCarthyism
This was top dollar read. Who are the psychopaths again?

[Runningfish]

+1.

My guess is a lot of the cheaters are sociopaths/psychopaths or anti-socials. If you research these terms on google you will see what they actually mean. No, psychopath is not a crazy genocidal murderer. Neither is an anti-social a shy person. Rather, these people are smooth criminals that have no shame or guilt when they cheat or lie or steal. The true meaning of anti-social is that of a person whom breaks the social rules and trust without remorse. A pscyhopath can be a serial killer just as much as he can be a kingpin or a car salesman.

Learn more here:
http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

It will open your eyes to more than you might have bargained for.

Here are my two favorite sections in the link:

So the guy who just wanted Ultravision/EB is now a psychopath/sociopath or anti-social. Yes that makes perfect sense!

Another misconception that you all seem to have is that all of these cheaters were equipped with the same tools. Most public releases of MQ for P99 did not include tracking/warping/showing mobs on map/the other actually powerful stuff. Most of them just had the things that were less likely to get you caught. The actual number of the people that had warping/tracking ect is probably much smaller than the 365 who were banned.

A lot of these people were probably working class dudes like you or I. Possibly parents without much time for the game who wanted to make it more convenient. I can understand being mad but calling them ALL psychopaths, sociopaths, or antisocial freaks is a bit dramatic. I'm sure we have some of those people on both sides of this argument.

[vinx]

This was top dollar read. Who are the psychopaths again?
FEAVERHEADS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v29F_lm3_M&feature=related

I can understand being mad but calling them ALL psychopaths, sociopaths, or antisocial freaks is a bit dramatic. I'm sure we have some of those people on both sides of this argument.

[Atmas]

So the guy who just wanted Ultravision/EB is now a psychopath/sociopath or anti-social. Yes that makes perfect sense!

Another misconception that you all seem to have is that all of these cheaters were equipped with the same tools. Most public releases of MQ for P99 did not include tracking/warping/showing mobs on map/the other actually powerful stuff. Most of them just had the things that were less likely to get you caught. The actual number of the people that had warping/tracking ect is probably much smaller than the 365 who were banned.

A lot of these people were probably working class dudes like you or I. Possibly parents without much time for the game who wanted to make it more convenient. I can understand being mad but calling them ALL psychopaths, sociopaths, or antisocial freaks is a bit dramatic. I'm sure we have some of those people on both sides of this argument.

Some of the comments about the cheaters is excessive but I really don't have sympathy for them.

I'm a working class guy with kids and when I wanted an EB item I camped Hadden. Took me about 12 kills to get it and it was pretty disruptive to my sleep schedule, which is already impaired by young children. I'm not complaining about the time I put in cause it was my decision but you got people getting a pretty unfair advantage that is easily translatable into 3.5k plat or several hours just for that one particular hack.

I really started on this server after Kunark launched but still had some hope to make the cash to buy a manastone in future. Just over the course of about the last month the price on it has risen by about 50k and I can't help but wonder if the price has been driven up by the quick cash made/saved by a few people benefiting from external means.

[Harrison]

What's more disgusting than the shitbags getting away with this, is dickless fucks defending them.

[Runningfish]

IMO the price of manastones is being driven up mostly because of the servers age and the people constantly reselling them.. They will only get more expensive as more plat is introduced to the server it's just the way it goes. I don't know when you started on Live but at least on my server it was exactly the same. If you came after kunark you were going to have to put in an outrageous amount of work to get a manastone.

Harrison, I'm not defending the actions of hackers they did what they did and they got punished that's what matters. However someone needs to separate the facts from the bullshit. It seemed to me that most of the people posting in outrage about this didn't really have the full picture. I thought I'd be able to help with that. I have absolutely no sympathy for em, they knew what they were doing could get them banned and they got off easy. It takes a lot less balls to jump on the bandwagon.

[Skope]

IMO the price of manastones is being driven up mostly because of the servers age and the people constantly reselling them.. They will only get more expensive as more plat is introduced to the server it's just the way it goes. I don't know when you started on Live but at least on my server it was exactly the same. If you came after kunark you were going to have to put in an outrageous amount of work to get a manastone.

Harrison, I'm not defending the actions of hackers they did what they did and they got punished that's what matters. However someone needs to separate the facts from the bullshit. It seemed to me that most of the people posting in outrage about this didn't really have the full picture. I thought I'd be able to help with that. I have absolutely no sympathy for em, they knew what they were doing could get them banned and they got off easy. It takes a lot less balls to jump on the bandwagon.

what bandwagon? delete their accounts permanently. We don't need more Rarens...

err, but also throw in some exp bonus for us folk who don't hax0r. i'm still a level away from 60

EDIT: just been informed that happened over the weekend. FML

[Vondra]

The funny thing is of the 365 suspended, at least 30 of them will probably end up getting banned (Probably permanently this time) within their first few weeks back when they attempt to use cheats to recover levels/money lost.

[Convict]

There's a lot of stupid arguing going on in this thread.

It boils down to this folks, It doesn't matter what advantage it gave them, even the slightest of advantages. The devs provide a wonderful free service for all of us. All they ask is return is not to break some very simple easy rules to follow, and don't cheat.

Even still these clowns decided to spit in their faces by cheating anyways. For that they deserve a permanent banhammer rammed up their asses. They were let off too easy.

That being said, I respect Rogean's decision regardless.

[visage]

Let's be real here. Why the hell would we want out devs spending countless hours going through each individual account removing items etc. You know how much time that would take. In reality what they did was good. Due to the amount of account's it would've detrimentally hurt the server for some considering how many accounts. Now I'm all for harsh punishment. In fact I prefer they all get banned forever. Or at least suspended until velious comes out with the account deleted. Regardless the less time staff has to work to ensure people like this don't break the rules , I am all for. It's pathetic people have to waste their time babysitting retards that break the rules. It's not fair and you spit in the face of the staff that gave you this priv. You literally cost them time to fish you out. I don't care if they wasted 30 seconds clicking a big red ban button. WTF have you done for them??? You donated.... Clearly a donation..... meaning there shouldn't be strings attached. You did it out of the goodness of your own heart.... Yet you cheat break simple rules put in place and spit in the devs faces? As well as the people that play honestly.... It's just jacked. Yeah it may be just a game , but like I said you are priviledged having been able to play it. In my opinion the cheaters should just be adults and walk away from the game , knowing they are cheats. Though this won't happen none of them have a sense of integrity or care for others , unless they benefit like cheating....

[casdegere]

There have been cheaters in the past and they were dealt a harsh hand as what befits such an act for a game like this. One in which there is a player made commerce especially.

The dev's decision to not Ban those that cheated this time was a decision made to pad the server and not lose a hefty amount of its player base. While I can understand this, this action is just plain unfair and bias to the rest of the player base. What this glaringly says is that having the numbers is more important then having a non-cheating player base. Those that were caught will try something different next time because that is what they do. There are cheaters and then there are the rest of us who just want a fair shake at playing a game we love.

Ok, yes I realize this is a game and lets not get to serious about it but I came here to P1999 for the specific reason that these guys actually try to curb cheating. Cheating turns this "game" into something different. Any character holding a Plat or a piece of equipment received through cheating should be completely deleted in the spirit of those banned before them. If those cheaters want to come back to the server, make a new account, they will even if they have to start over.

People have been cheating on this server, probably since it was started. I have no doubt months and months of cheating has been going on before the devs set out there 2 week net. Confiscating 3 million plat from 350 players is 8575 plat per person. Really? Are you kidding me? What do the rest of the player base get for just playing the game, populating this server with honest game play? One day of +50% xp. Cheating and nabbing Dragon loot, Fungi Tunics, T-Staffs and other premier loot worth 100's of millions of plat. And they grab 8575 from each player and xp? Are you kidding me?

[Aoloen]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif


Lmfao

[Skope]

There have been cheaters in the past and they were dealt a harsh hand as what befits such an act for a game like this. One in which there is a player made commerce especially.

The dev's decision to not Ban those that cheated this time was a decision made to pad the server and not lose a hefty amount of its player base. While I can understand this, this action is just plain unfair and bias to the rest of the player base. What this glaringly says is that having the numbers is more important then having a non-cheating player base. Those that were caught will try something different next time because that is what they do. There are cheaters and then there are the rest of us who just want a fair shake at playing a game we love.

Ok, yes I realize this is a game and lets not get to serious about it but I came here to P1999 for the specific reason that these guys actually try to curb cheating. Cheating turns this "game" into something different. Any character holding a Plat or a piece of equipment received through cheating should be completely deleted in the spirit of those banned before them. If those cheaters want to come back to the server, make a new account, they will even if they have to start over. You've set a precedent that it actually pays to cheat here with that that shitty decision or whatever the hell you wanna call it

People have been cheating on this server, probably since it was started. I have no doubt months and months of cheating has been going on before the devs set out there 2 week net. Confiscating 3 million plat from 350 players is 8575 plat per person. Really? Are you kidding me? What do the rest of the player base get for just playing the game, populating this server with honest game play? One day of +50% xp. Cheating and nabbing Dragon loot, Fungi Tunics, T-Staffs and other premier loot worth 100's of millions of plat. And they grab 8575 from each player and xp? Are you kidding me?

Spot on, really. Wipe the chars completely or permanently delete the accounts. To say that people who took the easy road for months/years and get off by starting with 0 plat and lvl 54 and get to keep their items but take a 2 week break isn't even a slap on the wrist. REALLY poor decision. What it says is that it actually pays to cheat here because you'll get hit for a lot less than you've gained and that's a horrendous precedent

[fishingme]

I've got to agree with removing all of their gear. deleveling to 54 along with losing platinum isn't much of a slap on the wrist. It will take most of them a week to get 60 and then it will all happen again

[Spoodowg2000bc]

http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tumblr_lai4k4a9wG1qe0eclo1_r2_500.gif

[Slave]

I'm sorry I haven't been around much, I'm still laughing from the guy who said that Diablo 2 was more competitive than Everquest.

[Raavak]

Have to admit the leniency of the punishment kinda makes me not want to play. Alot were cheating for ages, we knew they were cheating, you could complain, but you could never prove.

[Seaweedpimp]

Lets have a parade for when they come back

[Galacticus]

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks37hiIjbU1qa1xnko1_500.gif

[nymphloa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2n3lBUElrM&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4-U3ijVMo&NR=1




<Order of the Sith Lords>

[Spoodowg2000bc]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks37hiIjbU1qa1xnko1_500.gifhttp://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tumblr_lai4k4a9wG1qe0eclo1_r2_500.gif

http://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tumblr_lai4k4a9wG1qe0eclo1_r2_500.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gifhttp://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks37hiIjbU1qa1xnko1_500.gif

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks37hiIjbU1qa1xnko1_500.gifhttp://filmmakeriq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tumblr_lai4k4a9wG1qe0eclo1_r2_500.gifhttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/Beatle619/JackSaysYes.gif

[Zeakus]

I think I'm more scared about all the creepy jack gif's in this thread than I ever was about cheaters on P99. P99 for me is about the nostalgia of playing on an old school server. People have always found a way to cheat, always have cheated, and always will cheat. P99 devs have shown that they are seeking cheaters out and some form of punishment is being handed out. This won't stop cheating, but will decrease the population of cheaters.

In contrast, Sony never has punished cheaters except for a select few. P99 is doing a fantastic job, and even though the punishment isn't up to par with a "Creepy Jack" sentence, its far better than anything Sony has ever done.