Combat mage

[Dundrige]

How would the DPS of a Mage with Fesh staff (400damage DD) combating full-time, 255 Strength, 255 Dex 41% haste, epic pet, occasionally nuking, and damage shielding a tank like a paladin compare to other DPS classes?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

How would the DPS of a Mage with Fesh staff (400damage DD) combating full-time, 255 Strength, 255 Dex 41% haste, epic pet, occasionally nuking, and damage shielding a tank like a paladin compare to other DPS classes?

I can take a look using my DPS calculator. With those stats the Mage would melee + proc for about 20 DPS against a level 50 mob, if the Mage is attacking non-stop. If you cast spells, that would lower your melee DPS.

For comparison, if a Warrior could use Fesh Staff with those same stats, they would do roughly 58 DPS while meleeing non-stop.

Spamming Burnt Wood Staff is 24 DPS, and spamming Boots of Bladecalling is 35 DPS.

Sadly I do not think a melee build on a Mage will work, as spamming clickies would have better DPS.

If I remember correctly an Epic Pet does like 80-90 DPS, so you would be doing around 125 DPS with Epic Pet and boots of bladecalling Clickie Spam. It would be like 150 DPS if your Epic Pet was tanking due to Damage shield.

If you really wanted to you could auto attack with fesh staff in between clickie casts to try and proc Fesh Staff. But then your pet wouldn't be tanking, so you'd lose the damage shield DPS. That probably wouldn't be worth it unless the mob is running, or you need to tank for your pet.

[Crede]

Yea you’re better off getting velks boots and as many ft items as possible to mix in normal nukes/rains. Fesh staff is more of a necro thing since they can spam deflux while meleeing.

[Snaggles]

The gear treadmill isn’t even that high. On blue cons, a summoners dagger, fesh boots and the burnt wood stave land. Of those, the boots and dagger can be used at the same time (proc RNG between clicks). Often a focused water will match or beat the epic for pure dps.

The Fesh staff is nice but mainly for the lure.

I’d rather just rely on the pet, DS and some clicks though. Quicker to get back to messing. A full mana bar is good burst dps and it’s harder to maintain that chasing stuff around.

[Snaggles]

“Messing” = medding

[Vexenu]

Boots and staff are both really nice. Long cast time doesn't matter as much as many people seem to think, especially if you're in a solo/duo/trio situation. Plenty of time for one or more casts per mob. Send the pet, spam the clickie. Don't make it any more complicated than it needs to be. You aren't playing a Mage to impress people, after all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Boots and staff are both really nice. Long cast time doesn't matter as much as many people seem to think, especially if you're in a solo/duo/trio situation. Plenty of time for one or more casts per mob. Send the pet, spam the clickie. Don't make it any more complicated than it needs to be. You aren't playing a Mage to impress people, after all.

Yeah I feel like the dislike of long cast times comes from live. I remember not liking the kunark armor clickies on live when Kunark came out due to the long cast times.

On P99, perhaps due to a combination of better internet and "unclassic" channeling, there really isn't an issue with long cast time clickies. They finish most of the time for me, and the mana savings are well worth it.

[Balimon]

How would the DPS of a Mage with Fesh staff (400damage DD) combating full-time, 255 Strength, 255 Dex 41% haste, epic pet, occasionally nuking, and damage shielding a tank like a paladin compare to other DPS classes?

I believe the Velk boots would still outperform meleeing with the Fesh staff even with all those stats. How does it compare to other classes? If you can land spells Mages are a top notch dps class since you can cast a rain spell and then either click the Velk boots or spam Scars of Sigil.

The epic pet can do anywhere from 40-60 dps depending on the raid mob and level which is comparable to average knight dps I believe.

[Guesty07]

How would the DPS of a Mage with Fesh staff (400damage DD) combating full-time, 255 Strength, 255 Dex 41% haste, epic pet, occasionally nuking, and damage shielding a tank like a paladin compare to other DPS classes?


More than that of a shaman.

[Snaggles]

The mage can fill in as a solid dps class in all but raid situations. Where the latter falls apart is the level disparity between even a max level pet and the raid boss (My best focused water on Vindi does about 45dps which is a mediocre ranger or knight). Presuming summoning is safe at all. In those situations with 60+ raid bosses, your nukes won’t land or will barely land. DS is really solid but you only need one class to check that box.

Here is an old crusty thread I did once trying to figure out the worth of a DS. It depends if the mob casts, doubles, or quads. Also slowing really limits the effectiveness…but not all grind groups do.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390809&highlight=Mage

Sub 60 targets cons it’s way different. A max level focused water with Deadwood staves on Miragul did 65dps over 1.5 mins and a Tstaff 60 monk did 58dps and EoT did 42dps. I’ve seen 70’ish dps water parses in seb. (Note: It’s still probably better to use Air since stun is underrated and no need to worry about positioning if the tank isn’t trying).

The wiki says basically 24dps for a Burnt Wood chain clicking; 35 for velks boots. Using mana Scars of Sigil is likely the best dps and certainly is the most functional due to the 2 second cast. Mages will be Conjuration spec for coth and Shock of Steel is MR based so it’s often your go-to for mana efficiency at about 130dps.

Adding up this fairly narrow book of tricks, you still get COTH which can come in handy and they get Mala and Sini which is really nice if no shaman and relying on enchanter for pet and slows. That and if carefully casting a mage should never pull aggro nor will the healer have to heal the pet unless it’s split-tanking.

Epic pet vs air or water is kind of moot. The water will situationally best the epic but the epic is much better as a sum of its parts situation. No epic mage is frustrated getting smoked by a water pet on a 100% spell resistant target because they can get another water staff for little to no effort.

[Goregasmic]

Yeah I feel like the dislike of long cast times comes from live. I remember not liking the kunark armor clickies on live when Kunark came out due to the long cast times.

On P99, perhaps due to a combination of better internet and "unclassic" channeling, there really isn't an issue with long cast time clickies. They finish most of the time for me, and the mana savings are well worth it.

On live I had the vermillion robe of torrefaction. It is a great item and has many good uses but it is still a 600dd for 15sec cast for a class that can dump 3.2k damage within the same timeframe. Good for sustain and mana savings but terribly boring.

They were lesser known back then and the math/strats weren't out so it could explain lower popularity.

[Crede]

The mage can fill in as a solid dps class in all but raid situations. Where the latter falls apart is the level disparity between even a max level pet and the raid boss (My best focused water on Vindi does about 45dps which is a mediocre ranger or knight). Presuming summoning is safe at all. In those situations with 60+ raid bosses, your nukes won’t land or will barely land. DS is really solid but you only need one class to check that box.

Here is an old crusty thread I did once trying to figure out the worth of a DS. It depends if the mob casts, doubles, or quads. Also slowing really limits the effectiveness…but not all grind groups do.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390809&highlight=Mage

Sub 60 targets cons it’s way different. A max level focused water with Deadwood staves on Miragul did 65dps over 1.5 mins and a Tstaff 60 monk did 58dps and EoT did 42dps. I’ve seen 70’ish dps water parses in seb. (Note: It’s still probably better to use Air since stun is underrated and no need to worry about positioning if the tank isn’t trying).

The wiki says basically 24dps for a Burnt Wood chain clicking; 35 for velks boots. Using mana Scars of Sigil is likely the best dps and certainly is the most functional due to the 2 second cast. Mages will be Conjuration spec for coth and Shock of Steel is MR based so it’s often your go-to for mana efficiency at about 130dps.

Adding up this fairly narrow book of tricks, you still get COTH which can come in handy and they get Mala and Sini which is really nice if no shaman and relying on enchanter for pet and slows. That and if carefully casting a mage should never pull aggro nor will the healer have to heal the pet unless it’s split-tanking.

Epic pet vs air or water is kind of moot. The water will situationally best the epic but the epic is much better as a sum of its parts situation. No epic mage is frustrated getting smoked by a water pet on a 100% spell resistant target because they can get another water staff for little to no effort.

Do air pets get the broken monk abilities like block for superior mitigation?

[Snaggles]

Don't make it any more complicated than it needs to be.

I think in some ways people make this more complicated because they ignore the fact that the mage is a solid dps class (especially for those without raid gear). Likely because few parse and see how the pets are stacking up.

On live I had the vermillion robe of torrefaction. It is a great item and has many good uses but it is still a 600dd for 15sec cast for a class that can dump 3.2k damage within the same timeframe. Good for sustain and mana savings but terribly boring.

They were lesser known back then and the math/strats weren't out so it could explain lower popularity.

Clicking for 45 dps is certainly more boring compared to chain casting Lure of Ice but I guess so is medding. In classic timeline, less gear went to alts so they were likely more of a stat piece with a novelty click, rather than a grind aid.

The stave is a bit underrated though since 350 range instead of 200. You can get another click started before the first one lands and type “/pet kill” for when it’s charging you.

However, I never leveled with mine because:
1. Blue cons need more blasting than 25dps + your pet in the late 50’s.
(It’s an opener at best.)
2. After 54 with Sigil, the ability to kill a pet and finish with a 2sec nuke is ideal

[Snaggles]

Do air pets get the broken monk abilities like block for superior mitigation?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421311&highlight=Tanking

Another dumb thread of mine. Against Shady Swashbuckler a lvl 45.

Stun is the huge thing for air vs the other classic pets. It’s a 35% mitigation offset (16dps taken vs 25 earth or water). If it lands of course. A good reason to consider casting Sini for a tough blue, if it can be stunned. In a case of just the pet doing to killing, the air needed less heals to put down Shady than the others.

The epic is just a class of its own.

[Goregasmic]

I think in some ways people make this more complicated because they ignore the fact that the mage is a solid dps class (especially for those without raid gear). Likely because few parse and see how the pets are stacking up.



Clicking for 45 dps is certainly more boring compared to chain casting Lure of Ice but I guess so is medding. In classic timeline, less gear went to alts so they were likely more of a stat piece with a novelty click, rather than a grind aid.



Yeah opening up with it was often a free nuke, not bad to finish snared runners too. Also more sustain in groups which is the biggest downside of wizards. Even without the corner strat it was good. Never did the math on if it was better dps to med for next nuke than to chain click when you ran out of mana on a raid.

And yeah, thurg and PoF robes had better stats and we weren't in VP yet. When VRoT dropped I was prepared to DKP dump on it and it was defaulted to me since no one else wanted it... so it wasn't sought after.

[sajbert]

I have a hard time to get any non-lure clickies to stick with my wiz in most raids, even on malo'd targets. Trash often dies before cast time is over too. It's a marginal increase but I wouldn't be too surprised if melee was better in these settings, assuming you ain't got nothing better to do like making rods or whatnot.

As for solo, seems to me like body tanking is the only way to take on tougher mobs that an Epic pet can't solo. If you max out HP and AC (although not sure how useful AC is on caster) and slap on a damage shield then you should effectively be able to add 3k worth of HP to your pet for the duration of the engagement. Add Willsapper to the mix and you'll boost your ability further once you proc and from there why not swap onto the best melee weapon you can get like Staff of the Silent Star. Still guessing it won't matters, either the pet dies regardless or it doesn't

[Snaggles]

The extent of my non-lure nuking is some HoT minis with my Druid. If a wizard, gambling on a non-lure sometimes pays off but I’ll take the safe bet of a lure for anything semi-resistant.

Without a HP recovery system outside serpent blood potions and worts, stepping into melee range with a mage is iffy without a higher aggro PC melee there too. Pretty much have to time melee swings and try to joust before you collect one in return. I’d rather carry a Midnight Mallet for those needed clicks than pray on a sapper.

The issue with the staff of the silent star is gambling RNG when you can click and rely on consistent pain-free dps for blue con targets. IF you have 255 dex you have roughly an 2ppm proc average, or half that with a normal amount of dex. To match a Burnt Wood Stave the Silent Star would need to proc once every 15 seconds to beat it, that’s 4ppm. To beat the velks boots you need to proc just over 5 times a minute. Without any of these toys a mage can med 210 mana in a minute without any FT, C2, or PoTG which is about on par with a single Shock of Steel. I’d probably rather med and nuke or click over swinging and hope to beat the odds.

I guess a mage could benefit from the staff for meleeing raid targets they normally wouldn’t land spells on. Assuming they won’t eat AE’s and need heals. I suppose a mage with staff plus a water pet on vindi would be optimal…but it’s pretty mediocre over any serious melee. Give or take 45dps for a max water pet and ideally about 1k from the silent staff (800dd 200 white damage) for 16dps.

[kjs86z2]

no

just no

[Ripqozko]

if you aint quadding on your mage, you are a shit tier mage and a waste of space.

[kjs86z2]

if you aint quadding on your mage, you are a shit tier mage and a waste of space.

no i think id rather fesh staff melee on my mage ok? its 2025 i identify as a battlemage

[Snaggles]

if you aint quadding on your mage, you are a shit tier mage and a waste of space.

You can quad mage and also clown some shit tier dps on Geos though. Everyone needs xp!

[Jimjam]

You can quad mage and also clown some shit tier dps on Geos though. Everyone needs xp!

Honestly, I'm starting to think Rip just buys raid ready toons.

[Ripqozko]

look deep inside yourself and ask, am i a waste of space? probably know the answer

[Jimjam]

look deep inside yourself and ask, am i a waste of space? probably know the answer

I’m not gonna reflect on if you’re a waste of space, Rip. Sorry.

[Snaggles]

I used to sometimes play the mage to dps on epic quest kills because reparking a melee was a pain. I beat a monk with a Facesmasher once on Xenevorash, was middle of the pack for Lhranc, and smoked a 60 monk with a tstaff and a ranger on Miragul.

So yea, not ideal but sad to be those tryhards that got beat by a blue con without any legs…

[bcbrown]

I’m not gonna reflect on if you’re a waste of space, Rip. Sorry.

Probably know the answer though.