Cazic Thule

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

We did an engage on CT and he did a double DT on pull. Not 30 seconds apart but instead back to back instantly. I am not sure on if it was just a glitch or working as intended with the random DT aspect. I know when we fight mobs in sky mobs sometimes DT us at unexpected times, didn't know if this fell in there. But DTs back to back didn't happen in classic.

[Versus]

Poor timing with DT cycle imo

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Poor timing? No mob in EQ classic chain death touched back to back. If you aggro dracoliche there is a dt, then one every so often in a cycle. Not one for the first guy then the next guy shoots and arrow and gets death touched. Idiocy. On another note the when mobs used the spell Cazic Touch (what we call the death touch) they cast it. Innoruuk begins to cast a spell. Innoruuk shouts, Playername! It was always a spell and had a cooldown or refresh timer. Yet we don't see Cazic Thule beginning to or casting a spell, I don't know if it acts as an ability here, but it was a high damage spell that got upgraded some as players got more and more hit points to ensure it would take all the hit points. Called Cazic Touch because the only mob that death touched originally was, you guessed it, Cazic! If someone aggros dracoliche and the dt cycle starts. You're saying if another person aggros, another starts? Once your dt taker takes the DT, THEN it starts. Some places it is a cycle, most mobs when you attack them directly the death touches are based off of their hate list. But back to back instantaneous death touches from Cazic Thule? No.

Aggroing dracoliche, temple or one of the golems starts a dt cycle. Aggroing CT starts a dt cycle /train. But if you aggro the temple and train, and have your raid engage CT you aren't supposed to get 5 death touches. If that is how it 'works as intended ' on p99 it isn't classic, and it isn't even working as intended. Because 2 death touches does not equal 4 or 5.

[Werlop]

Maybe there was server latency and the server incorrectly refreshed the DT timer, or did not properly activate the ability, leading to a 2nd DT activating before the 1st was logged serverside? Just a thought. The planes have definitely been unstable lately, so could this be a result of a coded timer malfunction?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Possible Werlop, and I considered this. But the answer was 'working as intended for p99.' Most likely either it is something they believe is classic, or something they can't fix, or don't bother with because that is how it is here. I know there are other things not changeable due to the fact we use the titanium client. And for those of you in the know, the golems DT post revamp, CT won't. When you aggro CT pre-vamp he cazic touches and the zone rushes to him. But that doesn't mean Fright Dread Terror Temple Draco all start a DT cycle when they rush to his aid. Just because you know how it works on P99 doesn't mean that is how it should work in regards to being classic.

[Versus]

What I was saying was that maybe it was possible that the DT cycle was in effect (pre CT engage) and the DT timer hit just as you engaged CT, who then proceeded to DT like he always does upon being agro'd. Hence DT x2 back to back.

But maybe not, I wasn't there.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Good call Phisting, that is what I considered. But the thing is, there never should be multiple DT cycles. Unless you mean 'on p1999'. I cannot recall one time on live I saw or heard of multiple death touch cycles for up to 5 being active at one time. So if someone takes the DT to kite the temple and then another kites it, aggroing CT gives you two death touches back to back how with none other occurring? I cannot believe that if I had 4 people all simultaneously aggro the temple, and 3 golems with another tagging CT there should be 5 death touch cycles going. Is that what we are saying? Once you initiate the cycle there it is, you don't have up to 6 going. But I tell you what. You give me a full fear spawn with CT/draco I'll find out for you. You can even spawn it for test purposes and not reward loot. It should be, once you get the death touch you can aggro him and his cronies as much as you want but it doesn't grant them extra death touches. Cazic touch is a spell, from only one mob in that zone. And it is on a timer.

[Werlop]

Good call Phisting, that is what I considered. But the thing is, there never should be multiple DT cycles. Unless you mean 'on p1999'. I cannot recall one time on live I saw or heard of multiple death touch cycles for up to 5 being active at one time. So if someone takes the DT to kite the temple and then another kites it, aggroing CT gives you two death touches back to back how with none other occurring? I cannot believe that if I had 4 people all simultaneously aggro the temple, and 3 golems with another tagging CT there should be 5 death touch cycles going. Is that what we are saying? Once you initiate the cycle there it is, you don't have up to 6 going. But I tell you what. You give me a full fear spawn with CT/draco I'll find out for you. You can even spawn it for test purposes and not reward loot. It should be, once you get the death touch you can aggro him and his cronies as much as you want but it doesn't grant them extra death touches. Cazic touch is a spell, from only one mob in that zone. And it is on a timer.

Shaere, it sounds more like Versus is saying that the regular DT cycle was running on a server timer that happened to reach the end just as you engaged. So the DT from initial aggro is triggered and the server looked at the cycle timer, sae 00:00, and a second DT is triggered, causing the actual DT cycle to begin. In this case, it's probably a bug caused by server latency.

The only problem is that I don't see why CT's normal spell refresh for DT would have been running prior to the engage before it had been initially aggroed, or why a double DT hasn't happened before if this is the case. This doesn't mean that it isn't, or that unreported double DT's haven't happened of course.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Yeah I understand what you are saying, but if CT does not cast DT, the cycle never started right? Or, if we take a DT, send the puller at 29 seconds or whatever, tag again, at 30 seconds you see a DT. Just because you now add new aggro in does not make him DT again instantly. What I am getting is that CT's death touch cycle is like a zone wide phenomenon unrelated to CT, he death touches on his own schedule.

[Mountaineer]

Uh.......there's these things called GOLEMS
If you kill all the golems before you pull CT, he will only DT once every 30 seconds (approx)
If you leave 1 golem up, he'll DT twice every 30 seconds, etc etc.

[Tibador]

Really so if 3 golems are up CT will DT 4 times in a row lol ok

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Yeah there is no way that is classic. You do not have a dt cycle for every golem/temple/draco left up when you aggro CT.

[Tasslehofp99]

shaere = Gmuk's father

[Tasslehofp99]

Always getting mad when people say something against what you beleive to be true :D

[booter]

If it wasn't a bug, it was likely a normal DT cycle starting (from agro somewhere) and then his engage DT happening shortly after.

[Shiftin]

If it wasn't a bug, it was likely a normal DT cycle starting (from agro somewhere) and then his engage DT happening shortly after.

DT cycles can start for two reasons like booter said. aggroing a golem or draco starts one, so does aggroing CT directly. If you do both right on top of each other, you get 2 cycles.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

On p99. It's like the people that tell me yeah OOA is supposed to soul devour, or spiroc lord is supposed to stonespiderstun. When do you guys join TMO Tasle?

[maximum]

Linking posts:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77513

[Lazortag]

On p99. It's like the people that tell me yeah OOA is supposed to soul devour, or spiroc lord is supposed to stonespiderstun. When do you guys join TMO Tasle?

I know this is old but I think you might be right: http://web.archive.org/web/20030609233020/http://www.everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=230937

http://web.archive.org/web/20021107144107/http://www.everlore.com/bestiary/beastdetails.asp?mode=show&BID=210603

Neither one mentions the abilities you said they don't have... absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but at least it's something *shrug*.

[Dolalin]

Erati filed a bug report about the behaviour of Cazic's death touches last year, but it has been auto-locked:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360429

I wanted to add screenshot evidence I found that Cazic would deathtouch pets, even charmed NPC pets:

https://gallery.bingner.com/main.php/v/EverQuest/EQ000219.bmp.html

[Dolalin]

I found a PoF guide on the XegonyAlliance website, last updated March 2001, which describes Cazic's death touch behaviour a little:


Cazic Thule Says Your Name

When you see this, it means that Cazic Thule is kind of annoyed with the entire concept of people "raiding" his plane, and he decided to take matters into his own hands. If the person who gets the death touch was in the West camp at that time, Cazic Thule now is aggro on the entire camp and will begin to death touch someone every 30 seconds or so. When this happens, you will have to do one of two things:

If you are fighting something, kill it and kill it fast. After that, watch for the raid leader to call the CAMP command. When you see this, sit and camp, and pray you save your ass. Leave the game for 3 minutes, then return to the game. This will clear the Cazic aggro on the party. If you are not fighting, just look for the camp command. Do not camp until requested to do so. The leader makes that decision, and you will look like a cowardly fool if you camp out with no command only to find that the person that caught the death touch was not in the camp. Save some embarrassment and wait for the signal.


also:


Once you have pulled as many MOBs as you possible can without aggroing Cazic himself, get everyone to buff up. Once everyone
is buffed, designate someone as the death touch sacrifice (usually a gnome) and rush Cazic.

When your sacrifice gets there, he will be death touched first thing. If Cazic doesn't seem to be awake, have him cast on Cazic.
That'll get his attention fast. Once the death touch has passed, kill Cazic.

When Cazic is aggro, MOBs that are anywhere nearby will come after you. So if you haven't killed some MOBs yet, prepare to mez
the train that comes when you are killing Cazic. Sometimes you'll have 1 glare lord that's still alive. No big deal when this happens,
just kill CT and get a chanter to mez the glare.


and:


Fighting Cazic Thule

To prepare, cancel all the buffs you have on and, when given the signal, place 4 disposable buffs (or "crap buffs") on yourself. My
personal preference is to use J-Boots first, as you can quickly reactivate them after they are debuffed. At the command, begin
normal buffs. Put Dead Man Floating or Levitate on as the final buff, as this negates his Gravity Flux damage. Wait for the call, and
charge him and kill him. Not really much to it. Like dragons, casters want to wait until the halfway mark to begin casting on Cazic
Thule while the tanks work it down for the first half. Cazic isn't very magic resistant, so casters are going to do really well here. He
hits for 400 sometimes so he's a pretty rough melee MOB. He also death touches people every 30 seconds. If you have a lot of
magic resistance, they're a slim chance you could survive this, but it's not bloody likely. Tanks are essential. They MUST interrupt
him using bash, stun, etc. Casters, when not casting, have to stay out of melee range. Healers are an absolute must considering
how much damage Cazic will do to the tanks and how long they have to fight him. He has the ability to dispell buffs as well, but the
worst part of this is the MOBs in the zone running at you. That's right. The moment he's attacked, he will summon everything left in
the zone at you. This is why you want to do Cazic last. You want to clear all the MOBs in the zone that you can away before taking
him on. There's a big trick to doing Cazic though, and that's Fear. Cazic is extremely susceptible to Fear spells. If you keep him
Feared and just plow him with large scale DoTs and such, you can't fail.


Seems Cazic 1.0 should be fearable (if he isn't already).

And some spawn info:


The respawn cycle on MOBs in PoF is 13-14 hours with Cazic and Draco set to one week.


https://web.archive.org/web/20010706160042/www.xegonyalliance.com/guides/pofguide.pdf

[Dolalin]

A few more interesting things from that guide.

1) CT 1.0 should be deathtouching during the Dracoliche fight (if he doesn't already)?


Dracoliche - This looks like a huge Ashenbone Drake from Plane of Hate. If you have never seen one of those, you have never seen anything that looks like a Dracoliche. All I can say is that it looks like Vox or Nagafen died, decomposed, then returned to life with just its bones. This is Cazic Thule’s number one guardian. This bone dragon is a shadowknight with a pet. Attacking the Dracoliche always aggros Cazic himself, and throughout the battle with Draco, Cazic will be death-touching constantly, as well as sending in reinforcements.


2) Fright, Dread and Terror during Fear 1.0 only had coin loot? And also aggroed Cazic for the DT spam I guess:


Fright, Dread, and Terror - These are Cazic Thule’s little buddies that have temples located around the zone. They are large versions of the three golems from Cazic Thule. Fighting any one of these will also aggro Cazic. They drop nothing but some spare change. Their special skill is usually Blind.


Original source of the guide is this webpage captured March 2001:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010306211702/http://www.interzone23.com/xa/pofguide.html

[Dolalin]

More confirmation that Cazic 1.0 should be both snareable and fearable:


Easiest way to kill Cazic is the same way every necro kills outdoor mobs, plain and simple:

Engulfing Darkness, Fear, pet, nuke.

Cazic is very susceptible to fear spells, making him easy as hell to kill. Basically, using this method, not only will it require minimal amounts of people, but it will also end up with almost no deaths. Keep him feared, DoT'd, have people nuke, and put all the pets/tanks on him, and he'll drop in no time with no problems whatsoever.


http://web.archive.org/web/20010306215921/http://www.gameznet.com/eq/ultra/strategies/cazicthule2.html

[Dolalin]

Looks like CT's death touch was not zonewide until hateplane release:


Nov 16, 1999

Never put dear in it, but I have got go ask you, why was Cazic Thule's touch
of death upped to be zone wide? He's instaklling people that are on the
other side of the zone. I mean..why is he even doing it if he's not aggro on
them? Fear plane is hard enough as it is. The zone in point is not safe,
finding a spot or area to set up fort is not easy...it's actually very, very
difficult...and now you add these zone spanning touches of death. Please
remove it (asking nicely of course =)). Being instantly killed by a monster
you can't even see while in the middle of a fight with 3 level 52+ mobs is
not uh...something to be desired.

I'm asking...suggesting...that you look over the changes that you've made to
the plane of fear, in regards to the zone wide death touch(and remove
it)...

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.games.everquest/c/8wnoUDF0hHw/m/a3Jakm02oBoJ

[nilbog]

The respawn cycle on MOBs in PoF is 13-14 hours with Cazic and Draco set to one week.

There seems to be a lot of evidence pointing towards 8-16 hours for fearplane respawn. Anyone know if this changed in era (pre-Luclin) ?

[nilbog]

All research discovered so far indicates an 8-16 hour respawn of common npcs in fearplane. Currently, they are all exactly 8 hours.

This will likely change prior to next patch, so any contradictory evidence would be appreciated.

[nilbog]

Pending update:

-Common npcs in the Plane of Fear have an 8-16 hour respawn time

[Dolalin]

Screenshot of a pre-revamp CT raid where they are calling to re-fear CT in shout:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040304015633/http://www.evguild.org:80/screenshots/original/eq000103.jpg

And another call to fear him in OOC:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040304011737/http://www.evguild.org:80/screenshots/original/eq000098.jpg

[Dolalin]

Found a screenshot of someone looting the post-revamp Cazic pre-Luclin, in case it's useful.

He dropped 8p 19g 19s 3c and had 4 loot table items (three cloaks and a pauldron) plus a cash drop (earring).

https://web.archive.org/web/20060502000413/http://www.evguild.org:80/screenshots/velious/eq000185.jpg

[Dolalin]

That screenshot, despite its URL path, *could* have happened during Luclin, so I've kept looking for more occurences of 4 drops from post-revamp CT (which I'm not sure is possible on P99 at the moment).

The Enlightened Dark guild page has kill/loot history all through velious and I found another instance of 4 drops from CT in April 2001.


a Brain (Cinella), a Cloak (Motts), and two Chokers (Tywin and Themy in time for Ranger BotB =).


https://web.archive.org/web/20031203160354/http://www.enlighteneddark.org/News.html?month=2

It didn't happen all the time; their previous and subsequent kills were 3 drops. But it could happen.

Again, not sure if this is correct/incorrect on P99 as I haven't raided in ages. But documenting it just in case.

[Dolalin]

Three of a single item in the four-drop loot table was possible, in this case (and in the screenshot above), cloaks:


Posted Thursday, August 30, 2001 by Volx

Loots from CT: Cloaks (Ghark, Zayahoue, and Wonz [the paladin formerly known as Prince...errr, Wongfeihong]), Robe (Pharaz).


http://www.enlighteneddark.org/News.html?month=6