Warrior Dex Gear Suggestions Needed

[jhandor]

Hello friends,

My girlfriend is starting a Barbarian shaman to catch up to my Paladin. I have some old STR gear and a Fungi on standby, so I was going to create a Barb and be her bodyguard / killing machine monster while she levels.

I have a venomous axe of the velium brood, and thinking of DW'ing a frostbringer once I get higher.

What I could use some help with is suggestions on some warrior DEX gear that is 3k plat or less. I remember a 10 - 15 DEX cloak, etc.

Suggestion lists for Warrior DEX items would be greatly appreciated. Always wanted to try a proc warrior.

Thanks,

Jhandor

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Botten View Post
This is chance to talk about the fun I set out to accomplish on my warrior while leveling.

A warrior when leveling doesn't always hold the attention of the player like the other classes.

The exciting point in leveling when you get your next slow, charm, buff, teleport etc.. just isn't there as it is with the other classes.

So gearing can be where the fun is.

I set out to have a warrior with 255 dex at all times who had a number of procing weapons and let me tell you it has been a very fun journey.

This is the gear I accomplished from the start for my warrior that gave me 255 dex.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_BlueexTroll

(all gear was bought, however, some were very rare)

I have a lot of procing weapons and it help to find the ones you want to get from this list.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Weapon_Procs

The best from level one, was the Doljonijiarnimorinar
https://wiki.project1999.com/Doljonijiarnimorinar

It proced often and was a lot of fun to lay out the mobs very early on. I would almost consider it a powerleveling weapon.

For procing buffs -
Best fun was the Cat o' Nine Tails (swapped it in and out for the buff starting at level 20)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_o%27_Nine_Tails

Next best fun was the Beetle Stinger (swapped it in and out for the buff starting at level 30)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Beetle_Stinger

Next best fun was the Luminary Two Handed Sword (a Cha buff ... But not needed)

For low level fun and mob control was the
Glaive of Marltek - (Procs a Snare at level 15)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Glaive_of_Marltek

And I am currently at level 53 with the Truncheon of Doom - (Procs a 50% slow at level 50)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Truncheon_of_Doom

Lastly for soloing I do use two Blood Point and they do proc often for life steal
https://wiki.project1999.com/Blood_Point

For faction farming I use the Earthshaker or Sword of Skyfire - Earthshaker for fun
https://wiki.project1999.com/Earthshaker
https://wiki.project1999.com/Sword_of_Skyfire

Last fun procing item is for those annoying debuffs; the Glowing Black Sword (You don't need it thou and you don't want to use it in group)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Glowing_Black_Sword

I don't have a the Paebala Warbone but I hear that is fun too
(Oh this reminds me, I need to verify whether there is some type of aggro that carries from putting the illusion debuff on the mob. I think there is.)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Paebala_Warbone

I want a Herbalist Spade to test aggro control
https://wiki.project1999.com/Herbalist%27s_Spade

I have a no drop Wish List to test aggro generation and that is:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Neb%27s_Warbone
https://wiki.project1999.com/Tserrina%27s_Whip
https://wiki.project1999.com/Sarnak_Lightning_Caller

And I am working with the Bow of the Huntsman with A Weighted Axe (I don't think it affects procs and there are too few procs even with 255 dex. Something is borked.)
https://wiki.project1999.com/Bow_of_the_Huntsman

.. the Exquisite Velium Reinforced Bow is better

Either way having fun!

Post from a war who went max dex build. Magelo link included

[jhandor]

Very informative. Thank you sir.

[Snaggles]

Outside prioritizing some dex later (55+) for tanking I would probably aim for melee damage with dual-wield and save for a solid 2h like a Reaver. Once you hit 30, the cost efficiency of a 2h will blow all other gear out of the water outside a fungi (roughly 6x the cost of a Reaver on blue).

IMHO Dex oriented builds made a bit more sense when Velious wasn’t out. Not as many items providing buckets of stats (I.e. you will get Dex regardless) and stuff like Ykesha procs were sorely needed if you didn’t have epics.

Filling slots with cheap AC and HP items is never a bad thing. As well as making your character look cooler.

[Goregasmic]

Warriors usually want dex gear for procs to maintain aggro but if you're going to duo with a shaman just have her root stuff and you're golden.

Get the best haste/dps weaps you can get for your budget and some basic tank gear you're set. Outside of aggro, procs are mostly insignificant sources of damage as you level up. It isn't like you have to compete against rogues with double backstab and ragebringer anyway so your venom axe will do for now and when damage caps are lifted get a solid 2h as your venom axe will be less useful at that point.

[Drueric]

Why dont you give her the fungi.

[Drueric]

This is the gear I accomplished from the start for my warrior that gave me 255 dex.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_BlueexTroll

(all gear was bought, however, some were very rare)



This link doesnt show anything

[jhandor]

Why dont you give her the fungi.

I will later. She's new to Everquest. I've played since I was a teenager on live.

Plus it's my RL friend's tunic, Riendo from Good Guys. He's letting me borrow it for a while.

[jhandor]

Reaver seems like a good idea. I have the seahorse haste belt. I'll look for one soon.

Thanks all

[jhandor]

Kyleishia and Landolphn will be running around soon. Feel free to say hello

[Crede]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:DexTroll

Fixed link for the dex build

[Snaggles]

Warriors usually want dex gear for procs to maintain aggro but if you're going to duo with a shaman just have her root stuff and you're golden.

Initial pull with slow is 1 aggro. Unless there is a rogue to keep aggro off you don’t even need to root.

[jhandor]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:DexTroll

Fixed link for the dex build

Working now. Thanks!

[Drueric]

Do you think your weapons proc at the rate they should be? I didnt play my dex warrior for like 8 months, came back here recently and when I started playing my warrior again he wasnt procing nearly as much as he used to, its making think they nerfed weapon procs while I was away. I often go several minutes without a single weapon proc. I used to solo easily with this build, now I cant because my weapons arent procing hardly at all. I even have a higher dex than before.

I can kill 3 mobs and see maybe 1 proc. MAYBE. Its getting frustrating.

EDIT: OMG.. its my haste item. I took it off and now Im procing alot again... wtf... LOL... Note to self, and everyone.. dont get a haste item if you want your weapons to proc more often...

[zelld52]

i completely gave up on relying for procs on my warrior. for aggro: ive found that just very fast weapons are best to generate threat, especially in a hurry.

hows the gear looking Jhan?

[Samoht]

I highly advise against building a DEX warrior. Put starting points into STA and use white weapons with a low delay like sebilite croaking dirk or big 2h weapons like reaver or spade

[Goregasmic]

EDIT: OMG.. its my haste item. I took it off and now Im procing alot again... wtf... LOL... Note to self, and everyone.. dont get a haste item if you want your weapons to proc more often...

I think it is normalized so it always procs the same amount per minute on average depending on dex, regardless of wether you dw fast weap or a slow 2hander. Hastes doesn't change anything to the proc rate but you'll get less procs per swing.

[Drueric]

I think it is normalized so it always procs the same amount per minute on average depending on dex, regardless of wether you dw fast weap or a slow 2hander. Hastes doesn't change anything to the proc rate but you'll get less procs per swing.

Anecdotally, thats not what I see happening. Procs from what I have seen are pretty random, with dex being a factor. Haste also seems to make a difference, negatively.

I think a dex warrior will be much more useful if you dont wear a haste item. Try it and see. Slower weapon delay from what I see, makes your weapons proc more often.

That formula on the wiki is just someones best guess as to how procs work, and I think its inaccurate.

My haste theory is just a theory, I would say I have not tested using good haste items vs not, since I dont have one, but I have a low end haste item and been buffed with haste to see a comparison. My dex warrior also isnt capped out. But I dont think that matters for testing the theory, but even the wiki suggests weapon delay is a factor.

[zelld52]

Anecdotally, thats not what I see happening. Procs from what I have seen are pretty random, with dex being a factor. Haste also seems to make a difference, negatively.

I think a dex warrior will be much more useful if you dont wear a haste item. Slower weapon delay from what I see, makes your weapons proc more often.

Sure, but less haste means less damage output, and on average, less threat per fight.

Damned either way

[Samoht]

Yeah, don't drop haste. Haste + low delay are best threat in game

[loramin]

Anecdotally, thats not what I see happening. Procs from what I have seen are pretty random, with dex being a factor. Haste also seems to make a difference, negatively.

I think a dex warrior will be much more useful if you dont wear a haste item. Try it and see. Slower weapon delay from what I see, makes your weapons proc more often.

That formula on the wiki is just someones best guess as to how procs work, and I think its inaccurate.

My haste theory is just a theory, I would say I have not tested using good haste items vs not, since I dont have one, but I have a low end haste item and been buffed with haste to see a comparison. My dex warrior also isnt capped out. But I dont think that matters for testing the theory, but even the wiki suggests weapon delay is a factor.

Test it. Hit a mob once, then back off (root it or let someone else tank it). After waiting awhile, hit it again: your chance of proccing will be much higher.

[kjs86z2]

its why shammies / enchanters slow themselves before OT hammer

[zelld52]

its why shammies / enchanters slow themselves before OT hammer

Confirmed. Here's the setup for proccing OT hammer as a shaman.

1) Cast Mortal Deftness on Self (150 mana)
2) Cast Focus of Spirit on Self (500 mana)
3) Cast Turgur's insects on self (250 mana)
4) Cast Torpor on self (200 mana)

Yeah, it costs 1100 mana , but I proc OT hammer first swing like 80% of the time.

[Goregasmic]

I slow myself and remove haste so I'll proc early more often than not but each hammer swing takes like what, 9 seconds? If you don't proc on first swing it becomes a slog. You have more chances per swing to proc on hard mobs you want to joust anyway but if you ain't swingin' you aint proccin'... so on harmless trash I'm not sure it is worth slowing/unhasting.

[bcbrown]

Anecdotally, thats not what I see happening. Procs from what I have seen are pretty random, with dex being a factor. Haste also seems to make a difference, negatively.

Test it. Hit a mob once, then back off (root it or let someone else tank it). After waiting awhile, hit it again: your chance of proccing will be much higher.

The issue with both of these is that anecdotal observations aren't going to be very accurate. I'd guess you'd want at least 1000 procs to get results of any significance, and since procs are on the order of 1 or 2 per minute, that's gonna be hours of parsing.

Say you're at max dex and do a half hour of testing with and without haste. You should expect about 60 procs. If you get something like 61 hasted and 65 unhasted you really can't draw any conclusions from that. But if you did 500 hours of testing per side and got 61000 and 65000, then you could probably draw some conclusions.

The human mind being what it is, we naturally emphasize observations that support our pre-existing theories while discarding others that don't support it. For example, any fight where you don't get the proc you were hoping for is going to stick out, while the fight with three back-to-back procs might not be very memorable.

[Snaggles]

All procs are PPM. Procs per minute. Slow swings = higher proc chance per cycle. Fast weapons = less chance per cycle. No weapons proc more or less per minute. It’s only really a thing if you can joust the npc but that’s more solo and duel stuff, and only if you are turning off attack and cycling it back on. Slowing/torping yourself is ideal if trying for a one or two swing proc like off a Stalking Probe. I unequip haste and equip my Earthshaker if I want to save arrows proccing my Primal bow.

Self-cast proc spells like Divine Might, Call of Fire, Shroud of Death trigger substantially more often than weapons.

The reason why this is bad gearing advice is dps proc weapons by and large are mariginal outside a select few. For the warrior the Gaudralek for example. Even blood points are rather garbage ratio compared to a Reaver but who expected them to keep up with city leader Velious gear?

Dex will affect crits/crips but again, very little compared to just gearing to take hits. Unless you are comparing like a Silver Disk to Aary neck, or White Dragon helm vs KT Crown and have BiS aggro weapons I wouldn’t bother yourself much.

If you are trying to keep aggro off a shaman that’s easy: Pull with slow or have them wait for a few swings before they cast. Or let the warrior aggro two, root one, then slow stuff. Get a 2h and just chop up the world.

[Drueric]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay.(And to be honest, Im not even sure dex actually is a factor. People assume it, but its kinda hard to tell.) If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, and ppm doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

I havent seen anyone else mention this, or suggest it, but I duel wield 2 deadwood staves, without my haste item and I get more procs that way, and I can solo way easier doing that. Ive also tried 1 dws paired with shimmering partisan for the +20 dex. But I get more procs if I dual wield them. They are 28 delay, so technically should produce more procs than 2 blood points. Im not saying dws are better weapons than bp, just that they should proc more, and I dont have 2 bp to test it.

[Goregasmic]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay. If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, but that doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

If the game thinks you'll swing 50 times next minute and your dex gives you 1 proc per minute it will set your proc rate at 2% (or something among those lines). It doesn't make it impossible to proc 5 times in a row or 0 in 3 minutes. If it thinks you'll swing 10 times it will set proc rate at 10%, making you feel like it procs more.

[Snaggles]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay.(And to be honest, Im not even sure dex actually is a factor. People assume it, but its kinda hard to tell.) If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, and ppm doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

I havent seen anyone else mention this, or suggest it, but I duel wield 2 deadwood staves, without my haste item and I get more procs that way, and I can solo way easier doing that. Ive also tried 1 dws paired with shimmering partisan for the +20 dex. But I get more procs if I dual wield them. They are 28 delay, so technically should produce more procs than 2 blood points. Im not saying dws are better weapons than bp, just that they should proc more, and I dont have 2 bp to test it.

PPM can easily be tested but it’s so obviously a thing nobody has.

Torp shaman self-slow has like a 70% first swing proc with an Overthere hammer, I’ve not procced before on the second but it’s VERY rare. A bag of stalking probes can go a long time before recharging.

Taking off haste and equipping an Earthshaker makes each bow shot much more likely to proc. This is the basis around ranger racing for Sev and some other targets with a Windstriker. I don’t have a Windstriker but have done 8 Avatar procs before in like 20 shots. That’s some crazy luck if so.

[Samoht]

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code. I think whats really happening is a random % chance, affected by dex and weapon delay.(And to be honest, Im not even sure dex actually is a factor. People assume it, but its kinda hard to tell.) If you parsed 1000 attacks, all you would be seeing is the law of averages, not a set number of procs per minute, and ppm doesnt hold true in practice.

For example, I have gotten like 8 procs in 30 seconds before, and also zero procs for at least a minute. Procs per minute doesnt explain that, but random chance does.

I havent seen anyone else mention this, or suggest it, but I duel wield 2 deadwood staves, without my haste item and I get more procs that way, and I can solo way easier doing that. Ive also tried 1 dws paired with shimmering partisan for the +20 dex. But I get more procs if I dual wield them. They are 28 delay, so technically should produce more procs than 2 blood points. Im not saying dws are better weapons than bp, just that they should proc more, and I dont have 2 bp to test it.

More than just a theory: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357532

Rogean: Rewrote the Proc Chance formula to more accurately take attack speed into account, to achieve 2 Procs Per Minute given max Dexterity and regardless of attack speed. Dexterity still has a large affect on proc chance. In most cases, this has resulted in a slight increase in chance to proc.

In other words, procs work independently of weapon speed. Everything gets calculated on an expected goal of 2 procs per minute at 255 dex. Lower dex will have a lower total expected procs per minute. Naturally, the fewer swings per minute (higher delay, no haste, slow) means you're more likely to proc on each swing, but it should still average out to max 2 procs per minute.

[Drueric]

Thats just saying that the goal is 2 procs per minute, based on random chance, and affected by dex and attack speed. "Rewrote the Proc Chance formula to more accurately take attack speed into account"

I mean it says that right at the end.. "this has resulted in a slight increase in chance to proc."

So its not a set PPM. Its random chance where they have calculated an approximate number of procs per minute(an average) as the goal of their changes.

I dont know why they would then follow up saying "regardless of attack speed" <- that doesnt make sense. Attack speed clearly affects proc rates and its not equal to 2 per minute.

At the end of the day we are all gonna do what we want to do and test our theories to figure out the best weapon/haste combo for the most procs.

[loramin]

Giant wall of people all telling Drueric the same thing

Yes the wiki says its procs per minute, but again thats just someones theory put on a wiki, its not pulled out of code.

I'm going to quote the guy who wrote the code himself: he says you're wrong

At the end of the day we are all gonna do what we want to do

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/1e/16/99/1e1699f3997b3eb4a10141022479f273.jpg

[Drueric]

Originally Posted by Samoht (more or less) View Post
I'm going to quote the guy who wrote the code himself: he says you're wrong

It doesnt say that. The patch note says the exact opposite of what the debaters have said. They were wrong and I pointed out how and where they were wrong. Youre right, I can lead you to knowledge, but I cant make you think.

Dont be a troll.

[Samoht]

It says right there. 2 procs per minute with max sec. How are you interpreting that any other way?

[Drueric]

It says right there. 2 procs per minute with max sec. How are you interpreting that any other way?

Im, not, you are. Yall are like.. "its a formula!! SEE?" But then I pointed out that its not. Its just random chance and the patch notes says so. Hope you get it now, horsey.

[bcbrown]

Thats just saying that the goal is 2 procs per minute, based on random chance, and affected by dex and attack speed. "Rewrote the Proc Chance formula to more accurately take attack speed into account"

I mean it says that right at the end.. "this has resulted in a slight increase in chance to proc."

So its not a set PPM. Its random chance where they have calculated an approximate number of procs per minute(an average) as the goal of their changes.

I dont know why they would then follow up saying "regardless of attack speed" <- that doesnt make sense. Attack speed clearly affects proc rates and its not equal to 2 per minute.

At the end of the day we are all gonna do what we want to do and test our theories to figure out the best weapon/haste combo for the most procs.

Here's my understanding of how proc chances work. First, a procs-per-minute value is calculated based on dex. Something like 100 dex is 1 proc per minute, and maybe 200 or 255 dex is 2 proc per minute.

Next, a haste-adjusted swings-per-minute value is calculated. If your mainhand is 60 delay, that's one swing per six seconds or 10 swings per minute. If it's 20 delay, that's 30 swings per minute.

Then, a proc per swing value is calculated. At 10 swings per minute and 1 proc per minute that would be a 10% proc per swing chance. At 30 swings per minute it would be a 3.33% proc per swing chance.

Finally, every time you swing, you'll have that (random) chance to proc.

So yeah, attack speed doesn't affect chance to proc because a lower delay weapon will have a lower chance to proc per swing. Similarly with haste.

[jhandor]

i completely gave up on relying for procs on my warrior. for aggro: ive found that just very fast weapons are best to generate threat, especially in a hurry.

hows the gear looking Jhan?

Looking good. I'm an old hat so I have the my old STR gear from various characters, along with a Fungi and a seahorse haste belt.

Just need to get a Reaver from what I've seen in the comments. I was just mainly curious if a DEX build was viable.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJooof6QnbRtYH8kCEmgRzZyHpV6aQ_Y/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for the comments everyone.

- Jhandor

[Drueric]

I was just mainly curious if a DEX build was viable.

- Jhandor

Im not sure yet, but if it isnt by lvl 60, ill be re-rolling my warrior. So far, its not looking too good. Proc rates seem too low to make it viable thus far, fun yes, makes it easier to solo yes, but in the end, with groups... not so much. Experience may vary. My plain old 2 handed axe puts out more damage than any proc weapon combo I have tried so far.

[Drueric]

If the best we can do is 2 procs per minute.. That sucks. Just saying, devs.

[zelld52]

If the best we can do is 2 procs per minute.. That sucks. Just saying, devs.

That's on average, distributed across all your fights throughout your entire time playing EQ.

Some fights I'll get like 8 procs, with some happening back to back - some fights I'll have 0 procs.

That's why I don't rely on proc weps.

[Drueric]

That's why I don't rely on proc weps.

Probably good advice considering the state of procs. I would still use procing weapons, but I wont rely on them or build for max dex. There is not much point it seems. I probably dont need to reroll, but I will have to trade for new items.

[zelld52]

There's some really good proc weapons for tanking raid mobs, when you need to continuously build threat through a long fight - but they are from raid mobs (Koi trident, Red epic blade, willsapper, etc)

Most tanks these days rely on having a bump while they click Scepter from King Gragnar.


In a group, however - a really fast weapon, or really high burst (Swiftblade of Zek, Crscent Blades, Croaking Dirk, Reaver, etc) is a tanks best bet to get instant threat and continue to build it,

[Snaggles]

DPS and tanks have to work together. Procs are a random factor but one you can’t change. Warriors are still using proc weapons and the good ones have a hot key for their procs. Get the best stuff possible, learn to play your class, let the chips fall where they fall.

You won’t be holding aggro of dps melees with a Reaver without root. With a sham or cleric duo it won’t be a problem. As a raid dps role, it’s a great weapon.

Outside the Frostreaver which is a passable 2h aggro or the epic 2h (but that’s not the ideal configuration outside a couple fights), you use DW for aggro and 2h for dps.

[jhandor]

DPS and tanks have to work together. Procs are a random factor but one you can’t change. Warriors are still using proc weapons and the good ones have a hot key for their procs. Get the best stuff possible, learn to play your class, let the chips fall where they fall.

You won’t be holding aggro of dps melees with a Reaver without root. With a sham or cleric duo it won’t be a problem. As a raid dps role, it’s a great weapon.

Outside the Frostreaver which is a passable 2h aggro or the epic 2h (but that’s not the ideal configuration outside a couple fights), you use DW for aggro and 2h for dps.

What DW weapons would you recommend that are tradeable and can be obtained outside of raiding? I do not think I'll ever be a poop socker, personally.

[Drueric]

What DW weapons would you recommend that are tradeable and can be obtained outside of raiding? I do not think I'll ever be a poop socker, personally.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Wurmslayer :D

[Snaggles]

What DW weapons would you recommend that are tradeable and can be obtained outside of raiding? I do not think I'll ever be a poop socker, personally.

I’m not a warrior main (56 alt) but think a solid droppable combo would be a Frostbringer main hand and something like a Sarnak Warhammer/WESS/Ykeshan Warclub/Ri Ringed Mace of the Ykesha offhand.

Probably best droppable would be Wavecrasher MH/Frostbringer OH. Unless root aggro works for you, then Herbalist Spade.

[Samoht]

Crescent blade of luclin + sebilite croaking dirk

[Goregasmic]

What DW weapons would you recommend that are tradeable and can be obtained outside of raiding? I do not think I'll ever be a poop socker, personally.


https://wiki.project1999.com/Wurmslayer :D

Wurmslayer has a 0,625 ratio so it is a very good twink weapon but with damage bonus at 60 it has an efficiency ratio of 1,525 which puts it BELOW a lamentation.

On a budget get a 10/18 weap like samoht said those are good value for the money until you can get the more exotic stuff. What's the best white damage EC combo, SBOZ + BOC? That would run you 75k on green but a 10/18combo would be 5k. Don't skip haste either.

Frostbringer has shit white damage so if it doesn't proc you'll fall behind (for aggro) but if it procs you'll be ahead of SBOZ so it is a gamble.

[Goregasmic]

Actually for the wurmslayer I take that back. It is damage capped until 20 so not even a twink weap. It is only useful during level 20-40 if you REALLY want to DW but still shit because you'll be miles ahead with a 2hander due to low DW skill. It was only good when you could put it in offhand. I can't believe people still ask 1.5k for it.

[Drueric]

Wurmslayer has a 0,625 ratio so it is a very good twink weapon but with damage bonus at 60 it has an efficiency ratio of 1,525 which puts it BELOW a lamentation.

On a budget get a 10/18 weap like samoht said those are good value for the money until you can get the more exotic stuff. What's the best white damage EC combo, SBOZ + BOC? That would run you 75k on green but a 10/18combo would be 5k. Don't skip haste either.

Frostbringer has shit white damage so if it doesn't proc you'll fall behind (for aggro) but if it procs you'll be ahead of SBOZ so it is a gamble.

But the crits!! ratio isnt everything. Wurmslayer is like a 2hs in 1 hand.

In response to the other guy, the quest involved in getting a wurmslayer is part of the reason its priced that high.

[Snaggles]

The Wurmslayer was good in kunark. Its benefit over 2h is a very narrow level window and assumes the Reaver isn’t like 6k and the Herbalist Spade isn’t out yet. Also assuming Seb dirks aren’t like 1k and Guard Captain mallets are half that.

Sure, if your 2h option is a Stave of Battle the Wurm is appealing for a while. Do keep in mind your offhand isn’t doing much from 30-40. At 60 it only swings 75-80% as much as the Mainhand (if the same delay).

[zelld52]

Crescent blade of luclin + sebilite croaking dirk

This. Faster is better. More DPS and better threat than relying on procs.

[Goregasmic]

But the crits!! ratio isnt everything. Wurmslayer is like a 2hs in 1 hand.

In response to the other guy, the quest involved in getting a wurmslayer is part of the reason its priced that high.

Yeah but 400pp weapons outclass it in every way so I'm not sure why someone would pay 1.5k to gimp themselves.

[Snaggles]

At what level? Aggro doesn’t matter until mobs can one or two shot dps.

At HK goblins I expect fast weapons are best. Around 40 though those two 10/18’s aren’t keeping up with dps from a 40/40 or even a Herbalist Spade.

If the OP is going to group with their spouse on a shaman outside the 1-30 dredge of low weapon caps, 2h > everything. My warrior has two blood points in his bag and still hasn’t maxed piecing.

[zelld52]

At HK goblins I expect fast weapons are best. Around 40 though those two 10/18’s aren’t keeping up with dps from a 40/40 or even a Herbalist Spade.


Yes they are. I used SBoZ and Seb Croaking Dirk on warrior, duoed with a shaman. Shaman would pull with slow, and I was able to rip aggro immediately.

Grouped in City of Mist with rogues, and I was still able to keep aggro with just auto attack, the occasional taunt required to snap aggro back to me.

Things are slightly different at level 52 now - Reaver is starting to out DPS the 18 delay weps, but only by like 5 DPS per fight. The Reaver pulls more aggro on misses than the low delay weps, but both setups work well for aggro.

In every exp group (so far) I haven't had a problem with aggro - not saying it's not gonna change, but the 18 delay weps dual wielding totally works for aggro in my experience up to level 52 in velks.

[Snaggles]

Sure go for it if you have the budget then :) just a bump in price from a Reaver to SBoZ.

[Zuranthium]

Crescent blade of luclin + sebilite croaking dirk

NEVER LUCLIN

[zelld52]

Sure go for it if you have the budget then :) just a bump in price from a Reaver to SBoZ.

crescent blades of luclin was the topic, and its only 1 less dmg than SBoZ, so is the croaking dirk

[jhandor]

I am honestly just stoked that we're having a gentlemanly conversation about warrior weapons. And debating what's best.

You idiots (with all due respect) are making me feel like a teenager again. And I love you all for it.

- Jhandor

P.S. Even Doctor Strange commented. I'm good now.

[Snaggles]

crescent blades of luclin was the topic, and its only 1 less dmg than SBoZ, so is the croaking dirk

If that’s the case, a guard captain mallet is less than 1% worse and you can get a pair for about 1k. Damage bonus starts to run away with 10/18’s but by mid 50’s I’m not sure I’d personally be using DW over 2h unless it’s an aggro goal.

I used a Reaver to 56 years ago. Sacced my warrior to 45. Started back again when I got a Twisted Steel Bastard Sword and I’m 56 again. Just never been a big DW fan, tbh.

[Snaggles]

I am honestly just stoked that we're having a gentlemanly conversation about warrior weapons. And debating what's best.

You idiots (with all due respect) are making me feel like a teenager again. And I love you all for it.

- Jhandor

P.S. Even Doctor Strange commented. I'm good now.

Whatever you do just keep it fun. It’s the way to trick yourself into burning the hours until 60. :)

[Drueric]

DPS and tanks have to work together. Procs are a random factor but one you can’t change. Warriors are still using proc weapons and the good ones have a hot key for their procs. Get the best stuff possible, learn to play your class, let the chips fall where they fall.

You won’t be holding aggro of dps melees with a Reaver without root. With a sham or cleric duo it won’t be a problem. As a raid dps role, it’s a great weapon.

Outside the Frostreaver which is a passable 2h aggro or the epic 2h (but that’s not the ideal configuration outside a couple fights), you use DW for aggro and 2h for dps.

Just want to point out that you can know how to play your class without any procs and clickies. Those are more like handicaps that keep you from learning to play your class.

[Drueric]

Yes they are. I used SBoZ and Seb Croaking Dirk on warrior, duoed with a shaman. Shaman would pull with slow, and I was able to rip aggro immediately.

Grouped in City of Mist with rogues, and I was still able to keep aggro with just auto attack, the occasional taunt required to snap aggro back to me.

Things are slightly different at level 52 now - Reaver is starting to out DPS the 18 delay weps, but only by like 5 DPS per fight. The Reaver pulls more aggro on misses than the low delay weps, but both setups work well for aggro.

In every exp group (so far) I haven't had a problem with aggro - not saying it's not gonna change, but the 18 delay weps dual wielding totally works for aggro in my experience up to level 52 in velks.

This is why its good to have a mage with earth pet in your party, although they recently nerfed mage pets so they arent casting their spells as often... and of course it has to be a mage that is on the ball and sending their pet in every time. Alot of mages I have grouped with lately barely engage at all and wont even cast damage shields.... Although that could be due to being depressed about their class being nerfed so hard lately...

[zelld52]

Just never been a big DW fan, tbh.

DW makes you feel like a buzzsaw from 1-50: but yeah, at 50+ it starts to fall behind a juicy 2 hander for both DPS and aggro. I hit a crippling blow for 600 on my level 51 warrior yesterday and it is one of my best accomplishments in this game.

[Goregasmic]

In every exp group (so far) I haven't had a problem with aggro - not saying it's not gonna change, but the 18 delay weps dual wielding totally works for aggro in my experience up to level 52 in velks.

From what I understand it gets harder when you're grouped with double backstab ragebringer rogues, which are a dime a dozen. I noticed a lot of monks are twinked to the gills too, not sure if that causes problems for tanks.

[zelld52]

From what I understand it gets harder when you're grouped with double backstab ragebringer rogues, which are a dime a dozen. I noticed a lot of monks are twinked to the gills too, not sure if that causes problems for tanks.

It shouldn't: if you're grouped with competent players that Feign Death and Evade.

Rogues should evade every cooldown, regardless of aggro. Monks should Feign Death when they get aggro.

BUUUUT when you're talking about "twinked to the gills" monks, I doubt they are competent monk players. My 2 copper, but most twinked monk alts should have rolled a rogue and got it powerlevelled - because they really just like to watch white damage, and really suck overall at being a monk.

I'm never surprised, but always disappointed in how many level 60 with BiS items for their alt toons don't know how to shake off aggro on their twink monks and alt rogues.

[Jimjam]

Why would you shake off aggro on a twink? You got hp and ac… farm those defence skill ups and call tank bad.

[Snaggles]

Just want to point out that you can know how to play your class without any procs and clickies. Those are more like handicaps that keep you from learning to play your class.

Sure, if you want to be ineffective tank and outsource all aggro control to DPS. It’s not going to go well in grind groups and wipe raids.

I’m talking at a higher level of gearing and levels. Not the blue grind ones.

[Drueric]

Maybe everyone shouldnt twink their alts and it woudnt be an issue? Except warriors. Always twink them.

[kjs86z2]

Maybe everyone shouldnt twink their alts and it woudnt be an issue? Except warriors. Always twink them.

did you just assume my twinkage?

[jhandor]

DW makes you feel like a buzzsaw from 1-50: but yeah, at 50+ it starts to fall behind a juicy 2 hander for both DPS and aggro. I hit a crippling blow for 600 on my level 51 warrior yesterday and it is one of my best accomplishments in this game.

Very nice. That's the goal.

[kjs86z2]

You can make a lot of duos work once you hit 50 and truncheon procs.

[Jimjam]

You can make a lot of duos work once you hit 50 and truncheon procs.

Works best in places with haste. I’ve found herby spade is better at reducing incoming damage. Evasive is not far from 50 and just redic op. Burn on refresh and time the tricky pulls to coincide with burn not vice versa.

[Goregasmic]

DW makes you feel like a buzzsaw from 1-50: but yeah, at 50+ it starts to fall behind a juicy 2 hander for both DPS and aggro. I hit a crippling blow for 600 on my level 51 warrior yesterday and it is one of my best accomplishments in this game.

I thought the concensus was 2handers are better until ~50 because DW just doesn't fire enough and even then since the 2h dmg bonus buff, at 50+ 2h still reign supreme in most cases.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I thought the concensus was 2handers are better until ~50 because DW just doesn't fire enough and even then since the 2h dmg bonus buff, at 50+ 2h still reign supreme in most cases.

There's some nuance. First off, the damage caps generally make 2h weapons worse at lower levels.

From 1-19 a Reaver is a 14/40 weapon at best, which is a 0.35 ratio. Any 0.5 ratio 1h weapon like Sarnak Backstabber would do much better at those levels.

From 20-29 Reaver is a 30/40 (0.75), so it isn't that much different from dual wielding two 0.5 ratio weapons, even at the lower dual wield skill.

30+ Reaver will be 40/40, but the good 2h damage bonus numbers don't start picking up until 51+.

Using my DPS calculator, here are some DPS numbers against a trash mob of equal level. The Warrior has 150 STR and 34% Haste:

Level 9 Warrior vs. level 9 trash mob:
1. Crafted Velium Warsword (10/18) - 7 DPS

2. Reaver (40/40) (Damage capped) - 3.6 DPS

Level 19 Warrior vs. level 19 trash mob:
1. Crafted Velium Warsword (10/18) + Guard Captain's Mallet (11/20) - 12 DPS

2. Reaver (40/40) (Damage capped) - 6 DPS

Level 29 Warrior vs. level 29 trash mob:
1. Crafted Velium Warsword (10/18) + Guard Captain's Mallet (11/20) - 16 DPS

2. Reaver (40/40) (Damage capped) - 15 DPS

Level 39 Warrior vs. level 39 trash mob:
1. Crafted Velium Warsword (10/18) + Guard Captain's Mallet (11/20) - 22 DPS

2. Reaver (40/40) - 23.5 DPS

Level 49 Warrior vs. level 49 trash mob:
1. Crafted Velium Warsword (10/18) + Guard Captain's Mallet (11/20) - 22 DPS

2. Reaver (40/40) - 22 DPS

Level 60 Warrior vs. level 60 trash mob:
1. Crafted Velium Warsword (10/18) + Guard Captain's Mallet (11/20) - 35 DPS

2. Reaver (40/40) - 39 DPS

[Goregasmic]

Yeah I was under the impression there are more weapons like the silver swiftblade or bamboo bo stick out there but looking at the wiki weapon list sorted by ratio/damage, most low damage 2 handers are junk and a mere jade mace will largely outperform them. At 30 you get a lot more options.

[Drueric]

Just something to add to the discussion that I noticed recently, proc rate seem to increase 50+. I guess thats what the last change did. Devs said the change would make procs happen more, but apparently its less for lower level, and only more for high lvl. I dont know the real numbers, its just based on observations.

[zelld52]

I thought the concensus was 2handers are better until ~50 because DW just doesn't fire enough and even then since the 2h dmg bonus buff, at 50+ 2h still reign supreme in most cases.

I'm simply judging based off of my own experiences. Quick, good ratio 1h outperformed 2h until around 50. I used SBoZ + Seb croaking dirk, compared to a Reaver.

At 50 the Reaver caught up, and at 54 the Reaver is outperforming the 1h as the damage bonus gets higher.

[Drueric]

Yea my best weapon dps was with a 2handed weapon also. Hasted of course, and thats probably why