How does faction loss works?

[Goregasmic]

I'm factionned in chardok and been buffing players/groups around entrance/CE and noticed when I buff them while in combat and their mob dies sometimes I lose faction and sometimes I don't. Like sometimes I drop a group c2 on them mid fight and I don't lose faction but sometimes I'll haste a melee and I'll lose faction. I checked the wiki and googled a bit but couldn't find anything.

Is it because if you buff and they don't take direct action toward the mob post buff you won't get hit? Like if mob is dotted and pet is on it and you buff shaman that only watches it die you're fine but if shaman reroots mob you're not fine anymore?

I thought you'd get a hit the second you interacted with a player getting a hit but apparently it is more nuanced. I'd run tests but my faction is getting low right now and I'd like to stretch what's left.

[WarpathEQ]

I'm factionned in chardok and been buffing players/groups around entrance/CE and noticed when I buff them while in combat and their mob dies sometimes I lose faction and sometimes I don't. Like sometimes I drop a group c2 on them mid fight and I don't lose faction but sometimes I'll haste a melee and I'll lose faction. I checked the wiki and googled a bit but couldn't find anything.

Is it because if you buff and they don't take direct action toward the mob post buff you won't get hit? Like if mob is dotted and pet is on it and you buff shaman that only watches it die you're fine but if shaman reroots mob you're not fine anymore?

I thought you'd get a hit the second you interacted with a player getting a hit but apparently it is more nuanced. I'd run tests but my faction is getting low right now and I'd like to stretch what's left.

If someone has primary agro into a mob and you land a beneficial buff on them you will receive the faction hit. If they don't at the time the buff lands you won't. I know bard songs apply this logic to everyone in the group every time the song pulses. I can't speak to group buffs if it works similar to bard songs accross the whole group or only counts towards the person you cast on, not the other group members. That's the only nuance I can think of.

[Goregasmic]

What do you mean by primary aggro?

[Jimjam]

If someone has already damaged / debuffed a mob and then you cast on that person then you should get a faction hit (unless the mob got memblurred in the meantime).*

If you cast on them and then later they piss off the monster, you should still be good.

*apparently there is some kind of check a mob might do where they have a chance of not noticing your assistance, but I dunno if that is implemented or in era.

[Goregasmic]

Yeah that's what I thought so this is why I expected a hit for casting gift of pure thought on a cleric. Seen the particles transfer to the whole group, namely a paladin MT currently fighting and I got no hit. So I guess group buffs faction hits only affect target (cleric) and if cleric doesn't take part then you're fine?

Group buff dynamic could be tricky but I've dumped C2 on shamans in combat and sometimes I get a hit and sometimes I don't so I'm puzzled as to what exactly triggers a faction hit.

[WarpathEQ]

Primary Agro - I cast a hate inducing spell directly on the mob (some spells intentionally don't create hate/agro like lull/paci lines)
Secondary Agro - I root a mob nearby and the mob agros me.

[WarpathEQ]

Yeah that's what I thought so this is why I expected a hit for casting gift of pure thought on a cleric. Seen the particles transfer to the whole group, namely a paladin MT currently fighting and I got no hit. So I guess group buffs faction hits only affect target (cleric) and if cleric doesn't take part then you're fine?

Group buff dynamic could be tricky but I've dumped C2 on shamans in combat and sometimes I get a hit and sometimes I don't so I'm puzzled as to what exactly triggers a faction hit.

Yeah getting faction hits off secondary (i.e. not engaging the mob directly but buffing someone) can be tricky. I never have an issue with it on bard (always get the hit) because songs touch everyone in the group but don't have a target and pulse every 6 seconds.

If you want to ensure that you're getting the faction hits (like if you bring a low level toon to kael and want faction without getting too close). I would recommending casting multiple times (if its a group buff, I would even rotate targets in the group) just to be sure.

If you want to avoid any faction hits I would zone out or feign death before the mob dies to be sure you don't take the hit.

[Samoht]

Casting heals or beneficial buffs only have a chance to add you to the hate list. It is not guaranteed.

[Ciderpress]

Casting heals or beneficial buffs only have a chance to add you to the hate list. It is not guaranteed.

I don't think that's right. If a warrior is tanking a mob and you heal that warrior you will get all the same faction adjustments that the warrior does when the mob dies. This is the whole basis for rando priests healing the MT during faction pulls in kael and it always works. Only exception would be if somebody blurs it before it dies or something.

[Samoht]

I don't think that's right. If a warrior is tanking a mob and you heal that warrior you will get all the same faction adjustments that the warrior does when the mob dies. This is the whole basis for rando priests healing the MT during faction pulls in kael and it always works. Only exception would be if somebody blurs it before it dies or something.

How many times did you heal? If it's only once, there's a chance you did not add to all of them. The more heals, tho, the more likely it is you did.

It is more apparent in the scenario proposed by OP where they only intermittently receive the faction hits when there's only a single pull in camp.

[Ciderpress]

How many times did you heal? If it's only once, there's a chance you did not add to all of them. The more heals, tho, the more likely it is you did.

It is more apparent in the scenario proposed by OP where they only intermittently receive the faction hits when there's only a single pull in camp.

Well right, the warrior needs to have put threat into each of the faction pull mobs. If they did, then a single heal will return a faction adjustment for all of them. But yeah that's why I mentioned a single warrior tanking a single mob.

In OP's case it could be something to do with group buffs as opposed to individually targeted buffs or heals. If only certain group members have threat, and you cast a group buff on one who doesn't maybe it doesn't register as a beneficial action even though everyone in the group gets the buff. I'm guessing that's the case because group buffs are coded weirdly. You can't give potg to a low level player by targetting them, but if you start casting the spell with no target and then hit f7 to target nearest player you can give it to a level 1 without them being grouped.

[Samoht]

Well right, the warrior needs to have put threat into each of the faction pull mobs. If they did, then a single heal will return a faction adjustment for all of them. But yeah that's why I mentioned a single warrior tanking a single mob.

No, that's not accurate. The act of healing only has a chance to add you to the hate table.

I recommend that you test this for yourself if you don't believe it. Have someone pull singles and buff/heal them once. You will not receive every faction hit.

[Ciderpress]

No, that's not accurate. The act of healing only has a chance to add you to the hate table.

I recommend that you test this for yourself if you don't believe it. Have someone pull singles and buff/heal them once. You will not receive every faction hit.

That's interesting, I will test it.

Amazing how you can learn new things about a game you've played for 26 years lol.

When I attend faction pulls I don't even heal because of the aforementioned not knowing if the tank has actually put threat into them all. It's much more reliable to just tab target cycle all the mobs and drop a lvl 1 nuke on each one.

[Samoht]

When I attend faction pulls I don't even heal because of the aforementioned not knowing if the tank has actually put threat into them all. It's much more reliable to just tab target cycle all the mobs and drop a lvl 1 nuke on each one.

Yeah, direct aggro guarantees you're on the able for all of them. Another solution is to spam something like star of eyes or bracer of the hidden on someone casting AEs. More than one click is is necessary, and since it has an instant cool down, you just click click click click click click click click click click and then sit because that's what clerics do, lol.

Or you could also cast an AE like word of pain or donal's boots, but that might get unwanted attention from a giant that hasn't been hit by someone else yet.

[Zuranthium]

What a refreshing thread this is. People sharing good info and trying to do something better, instead of thinking they generated all the faction themselves after getting buffed.

[Goregasmic]

Casting heals or beneficial buffs only have a chance to add you to the hate list. It is not guaranteed.

Interesting, that would explain the inconsistencies, makes it harder to test though. Do you havr numbers on the %chance to trigger? Just out of curiosity.

Technically that means you could be out of aggro range and drop a single heal/buff on a player and if he FDs/dies, it is possible the mob walks away?

[Snaggles]

People try to heal or buff for AoW/KT faction tags all the time, it’s not reliable like a melee attempt or a detrimental spell.

With an ench you could just buff and blanket assuming that wouldn’t mess up their fight. Luckily Chardok faction is no big deal but buffing in like PoG should be done so very carefully if you care to remain in good favor.

[Goregasmic]

Yeah I usually wait until they're done fighting or gate after buffing but doing that run hundreds of times gets tedious.