Remove Angry Goblin Window

[jungels]

Why are we doing this to ourselves? Just remove the window so it's in-line with other server rolls (i.e. scout, ring8, etc...).

Please remove the window so we don't have to mindless wait up to 8 hours for this thing.

That's all. Thanks.

[Solist]

You dont have to do anything.

[Ripqozko]

no thanks, window is great

[furny]

Unreal. Solist and Ripqozko must be trolling. I can't believe any rational thinking human being would agree to having 25+ people standing around for 7 hours every 3 days. What's the point of wasting people's time? I agree that we should make this like scout and ring 8.

[Reiwa]

7 hours is too short. Triple it.

[Duik]

I thort it was the goblin that was supposed to be angry.

[loramin]

It's Luclin-era loot on a Velious-locked server: even if they made it unclassic, it's still going to be incredibly difficult to get ... so why not keep it classic?

[kjs86z2]

Unreal. Solist and Ripqozko must be trolling. I can't believe any rational thinking human being would agree to having 25+ people standing around for 7 hours every 3 days. What's the point of wasting people's time? I agree that we should make this like scout and ring 8.

everquest

[Naethyn]

Is it still 10 seconds to get your roll in?

[furny]

Is it still 10 seconds to get your roll in?

It is. It needs to be 30 seconds too.

[Naethyn]

This should be 30 seconds like everything else. The only reason its 10 seconds is because of a few bad actors.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3526053

[Aeryse]

The 8 hour window sucks. It's a huge waste of time for almost everyone involved. A static spawn would be much better - you've still got to win the roll. Scout proves that it's not going to kill interest. I'd be fine with a reduced window of an hour or whatever so there is a little bit of flavor.

The 10 second roll is frankly, insane to me. How do you do.... anything? You can't even go get a drink or use the bathroom without having to worry about missing the roll. It should just be like the scout with 30 seconds to roll.

At the end of the day an 8 hour long window and 10 second roll window is just brutal.

[Ripqozko]

keep the window, windows are great.

[kjs86z2]

How many people show up for this and sock it?

Every single one of them needs an intervention.

[loramin]

How many people show up for this and sock it?

Every single one of them needs an intervention.

Don't kink shame.

One of the great things about this game is that lots of different people play it lots of different ways: who cares if someone else plays it differently than you do?

[Zuranthium]

Doing nothing for 8 hours isn't playing a game, nor the intended way the game was supposed to be played. In terms of what EQ is supposed to be, high priority loot should have variability of spawn location, which rewards dungeon crawling to get items. It's unfortunate the devs didn't have time/resources to improve the underlying systems of the game, instead being focused on pushing out expansions and fixing bugs.

[WarpathEQ]

Doing nothing for 8 hours isn't playing a game, nor the intended way the game was supposed to be played. In terms of what EQ is supposed to be, high priority loot should have variability of spawn location, which rewards dungeon crawling to get items. It's unfortunate the devs didn't have time/resources to improve the underlying systems of the game, instead being focused on pushing out expansions and fixing bugs.

It wasn't really needed in a vast world with continual expansions. The knowledge wasn't prevelant back than. The systems in place were equally as mysterious as the changes you propose. Spawn locations, loot tables, respawn windows were all unknowns on release, not to mention quest lines and components. The way they built it, however, would have been much more simplistic from a development standpoint allowing for more focus on more depth and content, something that holds EQ in its own category as a game that can draw you in for years and years (where as most games fall short in days, weeks, or months).

The "how the games supposed to be" aspect being broken is a component of being in a time locked classic reproduction where all things are known to all people and the amount of time we're spending in these expansions is exponential to what they were designed for.

The window is not only normal gameplay its actually pretty mild compare to basically all competitive socking, which is where virtually all desirable loot in the game comes from. Having 10 seconds to react at some point inside of an 8 hour window is far easier than having 1-2 seconds to react to a 16 or 24 hour window (and having 20-100 people be pissed if you don't win). The key difference is for this the player actually has to do it for themselves, they can't rely on someone else to do all the work to sock the mob and then just appear when its there and their FTE.

I think the main case against expanding the roll time from 10 seconds to 30 seconds is it actually penalizes the players that are legit there actively socking. It opens the door for people to park AFK bots in droves and use GINA triggers to alert them to roll despite not even having eyes on the screen at any point during the 8 hours. It could potentially turn Angry Goblin into a gatekeeped MQ trap just like drusella and plane of hate have been. At least right now you have to go through some pain to get the reward.

Not to mention if you don't want to sock the mob, the good news is he spawns on quake. Park a toon there and you can roll roughly 3 times a month with virtually 0 wait time. And of course you always have the option to skip it all together, play the game however you want to, and use the money you make along the way to pay someone to sock it for you, with a guaranteed outcome of getting the loot (via MQ).

[cd288]

I'm not arguing for a change, personally I don't care, but acting like the system here is mild and makes sense is kinda, well, nonsensical. As is comparing it to long raid target windows because, as you admit, you usually have a team of several people running tracking during those windows.

8 hour window, solo, with 10 seconds to react is pretty insane. As other commenters have noted, you quite literally can't do anything else during that window including simply using the bathroom or trying to effectively feed yourself lol.

[Naethyn]

No other windows require a 10 second timer. 30 seconds is the standard for everything else. 10 seconds was chosen, because really sweaty people who don't even play here anymore wanted to exclude as many people as possible.

[loramin]

No other windows require a 10 second timer. 30 seconds is the standard for everything else. 10 seconds was chosen, because really sweaty people who don't even play here anymore wanted to exclude as many people as possible.

[Ripqozko]

Let's keep the timer and window it's great, no need to change

[WarpathEQ]

I'm not arguing for a change, personally I don't care, but acting like the system here is mild and makes sense is kinda, well, nonsensical. As is comparing it to long raid target windows because, as you admit, you usually have a team of several people running tracking during those windows.

8 hour window, solo, with 10 seconds to react is pretty insane. As other commenters have noted, you quite literally can't do anything else during that window including simply using the bathroom or trying to effectively feed yourself lol.

I mean they do have a system for handing out free loot that is BIS for multiple toons, its called Quarm.

No other windows require a 10 second timer. 30 seconds is the standard for everything else. 10 seconds was chosen, because really sweaty people who don't even play here anymore wanted to exclude as many people as possible.

What exactly does an extra 20 seconds accomplish other than giving AFK people time to respond to their GINA triggers?

Also:
https://wiki.project1999.com/A_shady_goblin/Player_Agreement

[kjs86z2]

No other windows require a 10 second timer. 30 seconds is the standard for everything else. 10 seconds was chosen, because really sweaty people who don't even play here anymore wanted to exclude as many people as possible.

ding ding ding

[kjs86z2]

I mean they do have a system for handing out free loot that is BIS for multiple toons, its called Quarm.



What exactly does an extra 20 seconds accomplish other than giving AFK people time to respond to their GINA triggers?

Also:
https://wiki.project1999.com/A_shady_goblin/Player_Agreement

i can do a lot in 30 seconds that i cannot do in 10

[Naethyn]

What exactly does an extra 20 seconds accomplish other than giving AFK people time to respond to their GINA triggers?

Also:
https://wiki.project1999.com/A_shady_goblin/Player_Agreement

Same quest influenced by the same people for the same exclusionary tactics. GINA is not against the rules here. People should absolutely be able to afk on an 8 hour window and have time to come back to participate. 30 seconds is the goldilocks standard for everything else. Not enough time to swap for a second roll. Just enough time to participate. There are more valid reasons to standardize windows and rolls across the server than there are valid reasons not to.

[Naethyn]

The main reason 10 seconds is a bad idea is it is incredibly easy to break the rules by scripting an immediate roll. That is what I mean by exclusionary tactics. A few bad actors knew they could get away with this while forcing good intentioned players on a rule set that is not practical at all. 30 seconds is how you avoid rampant cheating.

[Teddie1056]

1. Make it 30 seconds
2. Shrink the window on the server
3. Unroot dragons
4. Make a 3x kill 1x lockout policy for raid mobs
5. Make Naethyn and Yendor play with me again.

[cd288]

What exactly does an extra 20 seconds accomplish other than giving AFK people time to respond to their GINA triggers?

Gives you time to actually take a leak

[loramin]

Let's keep the timer and window it's great, no need to change

1. Make it 30 seconds

To be clear, everyone in the forum can weigh in with their opinions ... but those opinions are 100% meaningless.

The ONLY thing that matters for the player agreement is that all of the players doing the roll agree to it. It doesn't matter if everyone in the forums wants X seconds: if the people at the roll want to wait an hour, then the wait time will become an hour.

If you want to change the timer, it's simple: show up to the next roll and get everyone there to agree to the change. Keep doing that for several rolls (the staff has never clarified exactly how many), and it will become the new staff-enforced standard.

[cd288]

The main reason 10 seconds is a bad idea is it is incredibly easy to break the rules by scripting an immediate roll. That is what I mean by exclusionary tactics. A few bad actors knew they could get away with this while forcing good intentioned players on a rule set that is not practical at all. 30 seconds is how you avoid rampant cheating.

Fair point

[cd288]

To be clear, everyone in the forum can weigh in with their opinions ... but those opinions are 100% meaningless.

The ONLY thing that matters for the player agreement is that all of the players doing the roll agree to it. It doesn't matter if everyone in the forums wants X seconds: if the people at the roll want to wait an hour, then the wait time will become an hour.

If you want to change the timer, it's simple: show up to the next roll and get everyone there to agree to the change. Keep doing that for several rolls (the staff has never clarified exactly how many), and it will become the new staff-enforced standard.

No shit Loramin, thanks for stating the obvious

[loramin]

No shit Loramin, thanks for stating the obvious

:rolleyes:

[Zuranthium]

1. Make it 30 seconds
2. Shrink the window on the server
3. Unroot dragons
4. Make a 3x kill 1x lockout policy for raid mobs
5. Make Naethyn and Yendor play with me again.

All helpful, but what the game really needs is things like Angry Goblin having a chance to spawn off a handful of different NPC's in zone, and after one of those NPC's triggers the spawn, the chance then jumps to another random NPC in zone. Thus, people must dungeon crawl in order to get loot, not just sit in one spot and camp a single NPC.

[Duik]

Sounds so simple.

10 secs allows cheaters to cheat. Disallowing real temp afkers from rolling.

30 secs allows a *reasonable* amount of time for real players to respond (on an 8hr window) while stopping reloging for another roll.

Advovates for the 10sec roll seem to need to justify their need for 10secs as opposed to 30 secs that offers advantages to non cheaters while passively disabling cheaters.

Just saying.

[kjs86z2]

just simply choose not to participate

Having SWC isn't worth this nonsense, trust me.

[Goregasmic]

just simply choose not to participate

Having SWC isn't worth this nonsense, trust me.

Yeah. I want the 2nd ring but I'll buy a ring of lightning and/or go through the hassle of getting a pitted iron ring long before I ever attempt this kind of bullshit.

I love this dumb game just as much as anyone else but that mechanic is unemployed tier and I ain't got time for that.

[Ripqozko]

just simply choose not to participate

Having SWC isn't worth this nonsense, trust me.

Or pay the 75k to get one and skip waiting in line, swc and ring 2 both easier to buy is plat is laughable easy to get .

[WarpathEQ]

My viewpoint is 10 sec roll means you actually have to earn it and be there. 30 sec roll means everyone AFK, here for loot lottery, using external methods that weren't prevelent in era, and now the attendance at rolls if 4-5x more and the item is even more gate keeped as a result.

I'm in favor of standardizing rolls, make all rolls 10 seconds. I've never once missed a roll because 10 seconds was not enough time to react. But I've certainly seen plenty of rolls that are overcrowded with people that are nearly 100% AFK.

[cd288]

The majority of 10 second rollers are probably scripting an auto roll upon pop. They're not like putting in some super serious time like people who would be rolling within 30 seconds are not haha

[WarpathEQ]

The majority of 10 second rollers are probably scripting an auto roll upon pop. They're not like putting in some super serious time like people who would be rolling within 30 seconds are not haha

That has not been my experience. Not sure what you could even use to script off angry/shady as I don't think there is any text or anything other than visual que that they spawned. Just the text once turn in happens which is too late (I could very well be wrong just going off memory). Certainly could be a concern for some of the other player agreements.

Could script off other rolls but too many false rolls happen during the 8 hours it would be super obvious if someone was scripting that, and given the toxicity of this quest line would be reported heavily I would expect. Never once seen that and I've done atleast 40 angrys for full window.

What I do see quite often, especially on the overnight windows is people setting up GINA triggers and completely walking away from the computer. Angry spawns and they either don't wake up or get back to keyboard right away. They end up rolling after the 10 seconds but under 30 seconds and don't get rewarded free loot for cheating the system and the loot ends up going to someone that was actually there putting in effort and socking the window. IMO that is a feature, not a bug, or the 10 second timer and working as intended.

[Naethyn]

The fact is you need a stunningly large amount of evidence to result in admin intervention. 30 seconds isn't going to prevent the guys who are paying rent with it. What I want to prevent is the well intentioned player from making poor decisions, because he found out how everyone else is doing it. At 10 seconds you foster an environment that lends to this type of cheating. At 30 seconds it is reasonable that most people wouldn't make that choice.

[kjs86z2]

its tuesday 8 am

goblin going into window soon

does your employer know what you're up to?

[Goregasmic]

Seems to me they went to great length not to ban the POH mini guy so I don't see them enforcing jack shit.

Until they do I guess.

[loramin]

Seems to me they went to great length not to ban the POH mini guy so I don't see them enforcing jack shit.

Until they do I guess.

Like many of the rules here, the 2-boxing rule's enforcement is all about being caught in the act.

The hate farmer has done all his cheating (for years) when no one, or only a single player (eg. me) could see him do it. Until someone records his cheating, the staff's policy appears to be:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3165548782.9171/bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

But if a player violates the player agreement by turning in when they didn't win a roll, they do so in front of a whole mess of witnesses (one of whom might even be recording), so that player is far more likely to be punished.

[Goregasmic]

Like many of the rules here, the 2-boxing rule's enforcement is all about being caught in the act.

The hate farmer has done all his cheating (for years) when no one, or only a single player (eg. me) could see him do it. Until someone records his cheating, the staff's policy appears to be:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3165548782.9171/bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

But if a player violates the player agreement by turning in when they didn't win a roll, they do so in front of a whole mess of witnesses (one of whom might even be recording), so that player is far more likely to be punished.

The castle alliance report on that guy seemed pretty clear cut to me. Also seemed easy to verify on the dev's side.

[WarpathEQ]

We did get pet tracking nerf and new PoH rulesets out of it. So while it wasn't a clear rebuke, lifetime ban, and acknowledgement that this person is the biggest scum in EQ history (something that I understand already occured on Blue, yet somehow they allowed it to repeat on Green with the same person and they still aren't banned....) atleast there was some form of action to correct the issue.

But yeah it took castle publishing a full on disertation of unrefutable evidence, investing probably hundreds of hours of player time to continually monitor one bad actor, to even get to that point.

[Goregasmic]

We did get pet tracking nerf and new PoH rulesets out of it. So while it wasn't a clear rebuke, lifetime ban, and acknowledgement that this person is the biggest scum in EQ history (something that I understand already occured on Blue, yet somehow they allowed it to repeat on Green with the same person and they still aren't banned....) atleast there was some form of action to correct the issue.

But yeah it took castle publishing a full on disertation of unrefutable evidence, investing probably hundreds of hours of player time to continually monitor one bad actor, to even get to that point.

Seems easy to me to check if the guy is spamming pet attack 24/7. Yet they decided changing the ruleset and making pet tracking not classic was the prefered option. I guess they could have wanted to future proof the process but it kinda shows they don't seem to care much about automation.

[cd288]

Seems easy to me to check if the guy is spamming pet attack 24/7. Yet they decided changing the ruleset and making pet tracking not classic was the preferred option. I guess they could have wanted to future proof the process but it kinda shows they don't seem to care much about automation.

Who knows, maybe they will do something automated in the future. That would seem to be something that would take a lot of time for unpaid volunteer staff to dedicate to code, implement, etc.

Maybe the pet attack change is their way of acknowledging the problem and finding a temporary fix (or if not a fix a way that makes it more difficult) with the intent of a more permanent technological solution eventually (say, when they launch a new server for example).

[Goregasmic]

Sorry, by automation I meant someone automating their play.

[shovelquest]

I am getting carpel tunnel so bad when I play everquest that automation is the only way I will be able to enjoy this game in the near future.

Sooner or later we're all gonna be so old we're going to have to accept that making javelins is a hazard to our health.

[Jimjam]

Or pay the 75k to get one and skip waiting in line, swc and ring 2 both easier to buy is plat is laughable easy to get .

Not a big fan of MQ, especially if it is just paying someone to bot for you.

edit: I appreciate i am the freak on this one.

[Goregasmic]

Not a big fan of MQ, especially if it is just paying someone to bot for you.

edit: I appreciate i am the freak on this one.

I don't mind MQs but when it is on a very contested item I find that's a dick move.

[shovelquest]

Personally, I like how it reminds me of real life.

You can exist in norrath and create your own ways to make a profit. Without following the cookie cutter "game" experience.

I understand how the concept bothers others though, but for me... I prefer the freedom over the conformity.

[loramin]

I don't mind MQs but when it is on a very contested item I find that's a dick move.

What truly sucks is when you have almost no choice but to MQ.

I spent months in a top raid guild tracking Hate (I really wanted my epic). I finally gave up and bought the MQ from the Hate "soloer", because he had that much of an advantage (it wasn't a monopoly, but when one player is getting more minis than guilds are ...)

[Jimjam]

What truly sucks is when you have almost no choice but to MQ.

I spent months in a top raid guild tracking Hate (I really wanted my epic). I finally gave up and bought the MQ from the Hate "soloer", because he had that much of an advantage (it wasn't a monopoly, but when one player is getting more minis than guilds are ...)

https://media.tenor.com/LlwzpWIcKTsAAAAC/disappointed-upset.gif

[kjs86z2]

Personally, I like how it reminds me of real life.


Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M.

[Goregasmic]

What truly sucks is when you have almost no choice but to MQ.

I spent months in a top raid guild tracking Hate (I really wanted my epic). I finally gave up and bought the MQ from the Hate "soloer", because he had that much of an advantage (it wasn't a monopoly, but when one player is getting more minis than guilds are ...)

Yeah I meant the sellers. You had to buy because that guy had a near monopoly.

That game is time consuming as fuck so I understand people with the plat might prefere buying the MQ/loot rights and that's cool but when people farm stuff that are highly contested for money I feel it sucks for the people who are ready to put in the time (like you in hate).

[Zuranthium]

Personally, I like how it reminds me of real life.

You can exist in norrath and create your own ways to make a profit. Without following the cookie cutter "game" experience.

I understand how the concept bothers others though, but for me... I prefer the freedom over the conformity.

Camping a single spawn all day long is the definition of cookie cutter gameplay. No freedom there.

[Dundrige]

I agree. These rulesets aren't classic nor are they fun.

[shovelquest]

Bravo, hermit. For leapfrogging these welfare guilds and building a wall around your house with the plat you've made!

https://i.imgur.com/w2zLonA.png