Rangers need some love

[TytosOfEight]

Rangers need some love. I think we can all agree with this statement, so can we please make some small changes to make this fun class even more viable at later levels? Rangers are the worst class in the game at recouping hp. Some classes can BW to 70%, but not rangers, and all melee classes have access to a clicky heal bp, but not rangers. Rangers get call of earth, objectively one of the worst spells in the game. Rangers only have limited access to mana regen too, having access to FT1 only. And let’s not talk about their ability to mitigate damage…

Can I suggest some minor but useful changes to the class?

1. Let rangers BW to 70% or,
2. Make ranger heals self-only, slightly more mana expensive, and reduce their cast time to .5 seconds. Heals will be useable in fights, usable on raids, and it will make mana/wisdom more desirable
3. Give rangers access to health regen sooner
4. Tweak a ranger self-buff to include a small mana regen component

These are not huge changes and would remove many of the frustrations I’ve felt maining a ranger on P99 for the last few years.

Cheers

[Jimjam]

Call of earth is like the third best ranger spell. Not sure if that is praise of coe or a bitter inditement.

[Kich867]

I always felt all it would take to make rangers fun, for me, is to make bows function for Rangers like a normal weapon. Use the 2-handed weapon damage formula for it but replace strength with dexterity.

Going full "if I had my own modified classic server", at level 30, add two skills, Specialize Archery and Specialize Melee, similar to casters you can only pick one, idk what they'd do but they'd improve one or the other for people who still want to be a melee ranger.

But really I'd be happy with the first part. Let me bow a bitch.

Do that, make Warrior bash generate threat like its supposed to, remove the cooldown of Harvest for Wizards so they can actually participate in groups.

[WarpathEQ]

Can Pally or SK bindwound up to 70% or get anything besides FT1? Seems like those are aligned accross the hybrid classes.

I would imagine the heals scale similar to other hybrids (ranger is weaker druid, as pally is to weaker cleric, as SK is to weaker Necro)

Rangers do have their place in the META being the top class for BUMPing (with agro), they have unique +ATK buffs that boost your DPS, best in game tracking, and of course bowquest.

From everything I've seen really the big issue is that ranger AC is 100% broke and the data seems to suggest AC does 0 on a ranger, don't think that was intended or classic. Secondarily would be bowquest and how weapon delay can be used as a catalyst.

Aside from those two things it seems like rangers have just as much utility as any hybrid class does.

[Shourty]

I really liked playing my elph ranger. got him to 50ish and thought the only thing I would add is feign death and gate.

[Keebz]

When I mained ranger I always wanted safe fall and a higher sneak skill. The fact monks get these despite it being off theme makes me unreasonably angry.

But let's be honest, it's the defensive weakness 50+ that's the issue. They are pretty great at everything else.

[skulldudes]

... or get anything besides FT1? Seems like those are aligned accross the hybrid classes.

crown of narandi ft2, arguably bis *and* tradeable. makes poor helm of the tracker look like scrub gear in comparison :eek:

[Gustoo]

When I mained ranger I always wanted safe fall and a higher sneak skill. The fact monks get these despite it being off theme makes me unreasonably angry.

But let's be honest, it's the defensive weakness 50+ that's the issue. They are pretty great at everything else.

This is the only real ranger post cuz yeah wth monks

[Kich867]

When I mained ranger I always wanted safe fall and a higher sneak skill. The fact monks get these despite it being off theme makes me unreasonably angry.

But let's be honest, it's the defensive weakness 50+ that's the issue. They are pretty great at everything else.

Why are safe fall and sneak off-theme for monks?

[Gustoo]

If they are on theme for monks they are on theme for rangers that's all

[Snaggles]

Rangers aren’t what they become in later expansions but no need for custom server tweaks. If I could ask for any single one of those it would be gnome and halfling hybrids.

At 60 they can do great things with great gear. Never count-out an underdog.

[Keebz]

Why are safe fall and sneak off-theme for monks?

I don't understand why a noble temple living monk would be sneaky or why they'd be really good at falling, but I guess you can argue that they are nimble and these skills are a product of being nimble. Sure, I guess. Maybe they do a lot of pilgrimages? A life of being cloistered in mountainous villages? It's a stretch.

But rangers... they range. They go all over exploring on their own. Naturally they should be quite good at sneaking and descending cliffs and what not. It's literally their job to be able to do these things.

If they are on theme for monks they are on theme for rangers that's all

Pretty much.

Honestly, Feign Death makes more sense for a ranger (or more arguably rogue) as well, but let's not be greedy.

[Kich867]

I don't understand why a noble temple living monk would be sneaky or why they'd be really good at falling, but I guess you can argue that they are nimble and these skills are a product of being nimble. Sure, I guess. Maybe they do a lot of pilgrimages? A life of being cloistered in mountainous villages? It's a stretch.

But rangers... they range. They go all over exploring on their own. Naturally they should be quite good at sneaking and descending cliffs and what not. It's literally their job to be able to do these things.



Pretty much.

Honestly, Feign Death makes more sense for a ranger (or more arguably rogue) as well, but let's not be greedy.

I think maybe this is just a misunderstanding of what the classes are, they're based on D&D, where monks having safe-fall is a pretty core feature of the class. They're super nimble, easy to spec into stealth. Rangers on the other hand actually rock chain armor, which provides reduction to stealth effects. They're not necessarily stealthy. Nor would they be able to fall safely with the heavy weapons and armor they wear. Honestly its weird Rogues in this game can use chain armor.

Don't conflate what you feel the classes should be compared to what they actually are. The whole game is based on old D&D and popular MUD's at the time.

It's why, for instance, rangers and other hybrids had a 40% xp penalty. Because those classes took longer to level in D&D.

[Keebz]

Lol bro, I'm aware. This is not going to be a fruitful conversation.

[Snaggles]

Few topics on the forum are :) .

I still think the class is very well designed and certainly p99 embraces all its strengths. How much mitigation (incl healing) or dps could you give it before balance would be way off?

Two good discs (best bump in the game)
Aggro spells
Best tracking
Arguably best spell book
A lot of options for cheap primals

Hell, it’s the only melee that can cast snare, root, and SoW…

[CrazyPro]

I don't know what you expect to accomplish here asking for custom changes on a server that's trying to be accurate to the era it's emulating. This will never happen here.

[Duik]

Multiclass DnD had a warrior/mage unable to cast in metal armor. SK and Pal gained there.

A warrior/thief unable to sneak in anything above leather. Im old so ADnD 1st addition. That is my best memory.

So a Ranger safe falling leather only.
Rogue hide/sneak leather only.
Monks had almost zero armor and did better.

But EQ ≠ DnD so some freedoms apply.

Monks got weapons and armor.

Rangers lost (awesome) bows and gained (no repercussion) chain use.

Rogues never get multiclass.

I like snaggles take though. On first glance snare, root, heals, DS, sow and AC/HP/atk buffs sound great. But getting smashed in melee from blues in less than BIS sorta sucks when bows are meh.

[Gustoo]

He ain't asking he's just talking.

No one's gunna change anything here. It's CLaSSIc

[Rhambuk]

There will be no changes. That being said i dominated as a ranger, they're all set.

[Goregasmic]

I always felt all it would take to make rangers fun, for me, is to make bows function for Rangers like a normal weapon. Use the 2-handed weapon damage formula for it but replace strength with dexterity.

I don't know, that's a double edged sword. Right now with str governing both melee/ranged DPS you can focus on just one stat to raise white damage. I feel like making it 2 stats would hurt rangers more than anything else. In the end game you can afford to get more dex to maximize bow crits and procs but early on it would just be watering your DPS down on both fronts. And all the tanky gear is mostly strength anyway so it would make you even more of a glass cannon to chase dex on a class that isn't known to be a top DPS.

From everything I've seen really the big issue is that ranger AC is 100% broke and the data seems to suggest AC does 0 on a ranger, don't think that was intended or classic.

I'm still waiting for clear cut parses of this. From what we've seen lately I don't think anyone knows how AC actually works.

[Wakanda]

This will prob trigger people but I’ve duo’d with rangers on my shaman and they tank really well with my slows �� but also get single pulls since this is an outdoor zone where they can wolf form and lull (Karnors) and we get all the warlords because they have track

That being said I hated having Rangers in my group in classic on P99 green �� to the point I would rather just have the slot empty / vacant even though I’m a typically a “the more the merrier” type of person who thinks we should invite everyone as long as we have space

Reason they triggered me so bad is I would go from chillin n healin to constantly being OOM and begging my group to stop pulling because I would have to dump so much mana into keeping the ranger alive each fight ��

Could have just been a bad ranger tho, like why was he casting flame lick on every mob ��

[Snaggles]

Unlike a knight, rangers have a nuanced spell book. They have jolt which usually isn’t needed. They have flame lick which is massive aggro (and hopefully they know that). The self imbued DD’s have a small stun component and many rangers keep it up without jolting. Or they randomly root stuff and stand too close. Or they use a Frostbringer because it looks cool as hell but has an aggro proc. Or they stand back and plunk with a bow typically doing like 13dps if they don’t have a really good setup.

Yea, lol, there are some really bad rangers out there.

[Goregasmic]

Or they use a Frostbringer because it looks cool as hell but has an aggro proc.

If you have a frostbringer you're probably on a budget. If you're in PUGs you're probably called to tank or offtank a bunch. It is a solid mid range offhand and it is entirely possible that guy couldn't afford 2 sets of 1 handers. I can forgive that one.

But if you're straight up DPS you should go with a 2hander anyway. Better damage in general and less threat. Kind of a dick move to go full aggro weaps if you're not tanking, especially considering rangers have other tools to maintain aggro.

[Snaggles]

If you have a frostbringer you're probably on a budget. If you're in PUGs you're probably called to tank or offtank a bunch. It is a solid mid range offhand and it is entirely possible that guy couldn't afford 2 sets of 1 handers. I can forgive that one.

But if you're straight up DPS you should go with a 2hander anyway. Better damage in general and less threat. Kind of a dick move to go full aggro weaps if you're not tanking, especially considering rangers have other tools to maintain aggro.

Having good gear and being good often go hand in hand, but not always. These days it’s more common to see bad players who got on a lot treadmill and never bothered to learn how to play.

This was like 2019. FB’s were 3k and the person literally did all the bad things I mentioned. Didnt give any buffs out. Didn’t think to jolt, or root and back up a few feet. Probably a nice person, but simply horrible at basic mechanics.

[Jimjam]

Not enough ‘power rangers’ on this server for that true classic feel.

That dude was doing us all a solid by playing like it was still y2k.

[Snaggles]

Not enough ‘power rangers’ on this server for that true classic feel.

That dude was doing us all a solid by playing like it was still y2k.

Haha all gas, no brakes.

[Jimjam]

I just got reminded of something similar to this kind of ranger mentality - almost the inverse really.

SKs spamming their aggro spells from max melee vs a mob which is rooted :).

[Swish]

That being said I hated having Rangers in my group in classic on P99 green �� to the point I would rather just have the slot empty / vacant even though I’m a typically a “the more the merrier” type of person who thinks we should invite everyone as long as we have space

Reason they triggered me so bad is I would go from chillin n healin to constantly being OOM and begging my group to stop pulling because I would have to dump so much mana into keeping the ranger alive each fight ��

Could have just been a bad ranger tho, like why was he casting flame lick on every mob ��

Nope its a ranger/bard thing. If they're tanking unslowed mobs or getting whacked every time they pull its a real mana sink.

[Jimjam]

I reckon the biggest problem rangers/bards face for tanking is the lower defence (for much of the timeline) compared to other hybrids. It's not so much a mitigation thing though - it's the avoidance. My ranger seems to get hit so much more often than other melee.

[Wilshire]

This will prob trigger people but I’ve duo’d with rangers on my shaman and they tank really well with my slows �� but also get single pulls since this is an outdoor zone where they can wolf form and lull (Karnors) and we get all the warlords because they have track

That being said I hated having Rangers in my group in classic on P99 green �� to the point I would rather just have the slot empty / vacant even though I’m a typically a “the more the merrier” type of person who thinks we should invite everyone as long as we have space

Reason they triggered me so bad is I would go from chillin n healin to constantly being OOM and begging my group to stop pulling because I would have to dump so much mana into keeping the ranger alive each fight ��

Could have just been a bad ranger tho, like why was he casting flame lick on every mob ��

One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of the players in Live (when Live was on the Kunark/Velious expansions) were pretty terrible players.

I remember back then, most people were convinced that there were only a handful of classes that could solo at higher levels: Druid, Necromancer, Mage (maybe), Bard

Here in P99, people have pretty much proven that any class can solo the whole way up. A lot of people seem more capable at trying different things too - like nobody ever used reverse fear-kiting as a druid on Live. Most people didn't even know that a druid could even do that like a necro can (charm an animal, snare your target, fear it, send pet in, and dot).

Rangers can fear kite too. Rangers do get an animal-only fear and they get snare. What you can do is snare your target, fear it, then shoot it with your bow or melee it down while it's slowly running away from you. It makes you feel like a real hunter.

Rangers are actually a pretty versatile class in an outdoor area if you know what you're doing. Harmony is great for breaking up camps (and a ranger can do this better than a druid can since the ranger can take a punch). Lull animal is pretty good at making sure that you don't get randomly jumped by some hungry lion when you're hunting for your dinner. Rangers already don't get attacked by bears, wolves, and some cats unless the ranger attacks first, which makes you safer than other classes when hunting in an outdoor zone. A bow is pretty good for distance attacks when you run out of mana. You're highly maneuverable, and with dual weapons you can do damage pretty quickly.

I do agree with the comments suggesting that rangers should have something that improves the damage output of bows. Rangers are supposed to be the greatest archers around, so something like being able to critically hit with a bow would be a good addition. Safe fall would also make sense for them. So would some sort of sneak (that only works outdoors).

[Kich867]

Rangers are supposed to be the greatest archers around, so something like being able to critically hit with a bow

They already do. Bow base damage just isn't multiplied by 2 like it is for normal weapons, it's juts bow dmg + arrow damage, which makes it significantly weaker.

I think at 51(?) Ranger's finally get double archery damage, but only to an unrooted creature that isn't moving. And since you don't get double attack with bows, even then you're still doing half the damage you'd do in melee.

[Snaggles]

They should have never stopped Seaworthy Planks from dropping.

[Zuranthium]

They should have never stopped Seaworthy Planks from dropping.

BFG is a silly, cheesy thing anyway. Rangers should be good with bows.

[Snaggles]

BFG is a silly, cheesy thing anyway. Rangers should be good with bows.

They are also good with pewpew bows. Dagarn + 8dmg arrows+ Earthshaker isn’t shabby.