What makes twinking a caster "great"

[Knuckle]

I know this is probably a trash post but I never really roll INT casters and I am curious is there a point of "twink" like a fungi t-staff monk with 41% haste type feeling at low levels for any casters? I feel like being gated by meditating no matter how much mana you stack must be annoying and limit the potential of twinking.

[shovelquest]

I'm just quickly scanning my brain and I think I just stack Mana gear? There's no like fungi for casters that I can think of off the top of my head.

I feel like I just get good HP/Mana gear.. tolp robe & fire torch weapon thingy... 🤔

[Duik]

+HP +Mana. Always works. HP AC on a caster will run out sooner. Less mitigation from AC and less defense etc.
Skillz and situational awareness will win out.

A twinked monk in the hands of a total twonk would certainly survive. A skilled player with the same gear? Better.

Same with casters but I think skillz will count more here. Just my seat-of-the-pants feeling.

TL;DR Twinking for a caster is +HP +Mana AND knowledge of the class.

[shovelquest]

Oh the those pet summons like the one from Lguk or the higher end one I forget the name of right now.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Brazier_of_Elemental_Summoning

[Vexenu]

A Wizard with a bunch of +Mana gear can start quad kiting at level 8. A well-geared Necro twink can get surprisingly far with face tanking and lifetapping. Enchanters don't benefit much from heavy twinking except better survivability and more reliable charms, and Mages gain almost nothing from twinking beyond the focus items and some very basic INT/mana/STR gear.

[Goregasmic]

For ench getting to 190ish from base cha will make a huge difference on charm stability.

Charming is a huge mana hog too so more mana always help being more efficient with charms. Started my ench from scratch and I don't know how many fights I had to tap out because charm broke 3 times or I got an add I couldn't manage. And since you're stacking cha, if you're untwinked you won't have significant int/mana before you reach 60 so getting both with twinking is a major help.

[PatChapp]

For levels 1-10/12ish a tola robe and a good weapon like a smoldering brand is pretty fun.
Beyond that for necros and enchanters a zlandi heart is fun,feels very powerful.

[Estrang87]

A Wizard with a bunch of +Mana gear can start quad kiting at level 8. A well-geared Necro twink can get surprisingly far with face tanking and lifetapping. Enchanters don't benefit much from heavy twinking except better survivability and more reliable charms, and Mages gain almost nothing from twinking beyond the focus items and some very basic INT/mana/STR gear.

Level 8 quad kiting for wizard actually sounds fun. I mostly quad kited my druid from 37 to 60… hmm maybe i make a wizard twink :x

[sajbert]

Honestly, I feel like you twink a melee so that you don't feel absolutely miserable. I only felt I was more powerful than casters for the first 30-45 levels or so.

Casters may get less out of twinking but I think some underestimate the difference it can make and they have a far stronger starting point.

An FT1-item and Z-heart speeds up progression considerably. Simple +HP and +mana items can make fights basically unlosable.

The spell damage and dot clickies for casters are great too. E.g. wizard low level nuke wand, mage burned wood staff at 46 and VP staff for necro at 50. Perhaps for priest classes the clickies are more impactful however, e.g. lumi staff, jbb, sham epic.

Then there's utility items however like CoS will always be good for their respective classes.

[Jimjam]

Imo the caster twink is the humility to twink it for melee and keep defence/dodge levelled while it is easy. Most casters have a cheap 11/22 available if not better. The first 12 levels the spells suck and mana regen sucks more. 12-20 start to actively use spells and recoup mana but keep taking hits too.

20+don’t neglect defence, but start actually playing a caster. Level or bind near a druid port and pay to summon potg.

Ds and heal pots always rock if you don’t mind investing in disposables.

[zelld52]

For ench getting to 190ish from base cha will make a huge difference on charm stability.

Charming is a huge mana hog too so more mana always help being more efficient with charms. Started my ench from scratch and I don't know how many fights I had to tap out because charm broke 3 times or I got an add I couldn't manage. And since you're stacking cha, if you're untwinked you won't have significant int/mana before you reach 60 so getting both with twinking is a major help.

Charisma does not affect charm duration. There are many posts about this on forum. The reason enchanters stack charisma is to minimize crit fail on pacify

[Goregasmic]

Charisma does not affect charm duration. There are many posts about this on forum. The reason enchanters stack charisma is to minimize crit fail on pacify

It seems to be widely understood each charm tick has a level/mr/cha check and it must pass all 3 or charm breaks. Please show evidence to the contrary if you have it.

I think it is GM confirmed and this post seems to show a linear increase in duration as cha goes up.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92423

[zelld52]

From what I understood from a different post, the charisma check on charm tick is insignificant compared to the level difference and mob MR.

Compared to critical on pacify resist and initial charm cast where charisma is a more significant figure in the equation compared to the same level difference and mob MR.

On mobile, I can dig for the forum post I believe I have it bookmarked. It’s likely a case of different posts having different influence but I do have some anecdotal evidence.

Levelled both a Necro with netted kelp and 25 CHA and enchanter with 200 CHA same spots per level progressing through Howling Stones, and the necro never had a problem with early charm breaks - neither did the enchanter. However, the necro had significantly more crit resists on pacify (close to 33% crit on resist) compared to much more like <10% crit on resist pacify on Enchanter.

The necro additionally had more resists on the initial cast of charm than the enchanter, who rarely had a resist on charm unless the mob was a tougher target.

[Kich867]

From what I understood from a different post, the charisma check on charm tick is insignificant compared to the level difference and mob MR.

Compared to critical on pacify resist and initial charm cast where charisma is a more significant figure in the equation compared to the same level difference and mob MR.

On mobile, I can dig for the forum post I believe I have it bookmarked. It’s likely a case of different posts having different influence but I do have some anecdotal evidence.

Levelled both a Necro with netted kelp and 25 CHA and enchanter with 200 CHA same spots per level progressing through Howling Stones, and the necro never had a problem with early charm breaks - neither did the enchanter. However, the necro had significantly more crit resists on pacify (close to 33% crit on resist) compared to much more like <10% crit on resist pacify on Enchanter.

The necro additionally had more resists on the initial cast of charm than the enchanter, who rarely had a resist on charm unless the mob was a tougher target.

I mean I'm sure you've heard this but, from what I've seen people saying on this forum, only Enchanter's have a charisma component to their charm and Necros/Druids do not have one its purely level oriented.

IDK if that's true, but, supposedly that's the case.

Maybe it's not this simple but like, surely this is somewhat provable by having maybe a mid-level enchanter charm a white mob with like 200+ charisma a bunch of times, then do it again with no charisma gear on at like 85-90, compare the results.

Bring a druid or something to keep the mob perma rooted/snared.

If the difference isn't noticeable over like 100 charms at each stat value, then we could safely say that either it has no impact or the impact is so minuscule that it can be ignored.

[zelld52]

I mean I'm sure you've heard this but, from what I've seen people saying on this forum, only Enchanter's have a charisma component to their charm and Necros/Druids do not have one its purely level oriented.

IDK if that's true, but, supposedly that's the case.

Maybe it's not this simple but like, surely this is somewhat provable by having maybe a mid-level enchanter charm a white mob with like 200+ charisma a bunch of times, then do it again with no charisma gear on at like 85-90, compare the results.

Bring a druid or something to keep the mob perma rooted/snared.

If the difference isn't noticeable over like 100 charms at each stat value, then we could safely say that either it has no impact or the impact is so minuscule that it can be ignored.

Suppose wouldn’t be too hard to test at 60 either. Just strip gear and choose a mob level 49 or so. But I highly doubt that thst two spells that have the same effect just a different name (ie druid necro and enchanter charm) have different spell checks. Same with pacify. I highly doubt there are different equations depending on the class. Which is why cleric, enchanter , Druid and necro gear all has charisma but shaman, mage, wizard typically do not

[branamil]

I twink all of my casters with an Essence of Nature. Helps a little in crushbone

[Goregasmic]

From what I understood from a different post, the charisma check on charm tick is insignificant compared to the level difference and mob MR.

Compared to critical on pacify resist and initial charm cast where charisma is a more significant figure in the equation compared to the same level difference and mob MR.

On mobile, I can dig for the forum post I believe I have it bookmarked. It’s likely a case of different posts having different influence but I do have some anecdotal evidence.

Levelled both a Necro with netted kelp and 25 CHA and enchanter with 200 CHA same spots per level progressing through Howling Stones, and the necro never had a problem with early charm breaks - neither did the enchanter. However, the necro had significantly more crit resists on pacify (close to 33% crit on resist) compared to much more like <10% crit on resist pacify on Enchanter.

The necro additionally had more resists on the initial cast of charm than the enchanter, who rarely had a resist on charm unless the mob was a tougher target.

Cha seems to have the least impact on charm duration but as shown in the thread I linked, it is more than insignificant.

It does have a major impact on lulling, no one is saying otherwise. Level also has a major impact. I can't speak for mez or initial charm landing because im flirting with 255 cha and those happen once in a blue moon. Anyway, I lull so much on any given day the CHA is worth it for that alone but I can see it being different for a raiding enchanter depending on the zone.

As for necro/druid charm, the only thing we know is that it is unaffected by CHA, and we know basically nothing else. We can't draw any conclusion about enchanter charm from the way druid/necro charm works.

[ScottBerta]

For ench getting to 190ish from base cha will make a huge difference on charm stability.

Charming is a huge mana hog too so more mana always help being more efficient with charms. Started my ench from scratch and I don't know how many fights I had to tap out because charm broke 3 times or I got an add I couldn't manage. And since you're stacking cha, if you're untwinked you won't have significant int/mana before you reach 60 so getting both with twinking is a major help.


Isn’t Charm for Necro based off MR?

[WarpathEQ]

Velium crystal staff off rip that's your Venomous axe for casters...lvl 1 nuke proc. Combine it with some HP/AC standard twink gear and you got yourself a battle caster for the early game.

Beyond that certainly a GCD item would be a key item to equip a caster with, tons of options and varying price levels.

Clicky Items, whether its mana free DPS or utility items, lots of good clickies to obtain on casters that will beef up your efficiency/utility.

To me the key difference is casters don't have as much impactful middle tier gear (things like fungi tunic and weapons that boost DPS) so a lot of the melee equivalant twinking is expensive. Things like Z-heart, manastone, manna robe, Chocker of the Wretched. etc. can make a caster wildly strong they just put a much larger hole in the pocketbook.

[Keebz]

Are the thurg clickes no longer clickable at level 1 (realistically lvl 5)?

[Tann]

Isn’t Charm for Necro based off MR?

yes, charms for both necro and druid, and lower level shaman i suppose, is based on MR and level difference.

[Snaggles]

Jboots, spell money, fungi tunic and staff for druids and shams, 30+ damage 2h’s for any pet to about level 45. Works past that but the gains aren’t nearly as good.

[PatChapp]

Are the thurg clickes no longer clickable at level 1 (realistically lvl 5)?

Some of them are, i don't think the robes work at 1 but I've been wrong before.

Cleric pants,melee bp click from 1 for sure

[WarpathEQ]

Are the thurg clickes no longer clickable at level 1 (realistically lvl 5)?

There are definitely velious clickies that have no minimum level, I think you have to be lvl 5 to enter any of the zones where you would need to go to get them though.

[WarpathEQ]

Some of them are, i don't think the robes work at 1 but I've been wrong before.

Cleric pants,melee bp click from 1 for sure

I know there are wizard robes without a minimum click level, not sure about other casters.

[Goregasmic]

For wizard at early level you can use solist's Icy wand, https://wiki.project1999.com/Solist%27s_Icy_Wand

It's kind of a little jbb for low levels.

I guess if you have a raiding guild you can get the bigger nuke robes but only the vermilliion stuff works at 40, most is 50.

[WarpathEQ]

For wizard at early level you can use solist's Icy wand, https://wiki.project1999.com/Solist%27s_Icy_Wand

It's kind of a little jbb for low levels.

I guess if you have a raiding guild you can get the bigger nuke robes but only the vermilliion stuff works at 40, most is 50.

Skyshrine and I believe Thurg robes are clickable nukes at lvl 1

[wuanahto]

I been twinking my casters with hp>ac>mana gear

shardtooths flayed skin, iksar hide cape, jaded velium rings, black sapphire neck/ac>hp>mp ears, that one enduring breath stick from sebilis that i cant remember right now, etc

huge mana pools are nice in raids and such but leveling up having more hp just worked for me
mages i can tank a bit when my pet is in trouble and regen it back with the armor spells
necros i can just tap it back
enchanters i can hopefully recharm in time
wizards over nuke or something else

[captain]

I’ve tried the twinking route on a wizard with Velium crystal staff (nice proc dmg) Tola Robe (haste) and hp/higher ac items.

The novelty compared to melee wears off real quick. Lv 12-15 melee’ing mobs just doesn’t do it anymore.

The best twinking is using that plat for power leveling, as casters are the ideal class with PBAE spells.you’ll get levels way faster for half the plat cost.

Post lv 40 where power leveling stops being really efficient plat wise, it’s good to get some +mana gear as that will sustain you for your killing sessions longer between your med breaks to get back to full.

[kjs86z2]

"worth it to twink" in this order:

enc, necro, druid, shaman

rest is garbage waste of time / plat

[zelld52]

"worth it to twink" in this order:

enc, necro, druid, shaman

rest is garbage waste of time / plat

wholeheartedly agree. Druid may take #1 spot though because of manastone + elder spiritist greaves + fungi + fungi staff combintion. infinite mana / HP like a shaman but better

[kjs86z2]

wholeheartedly agree. Druid may take #1 spot though because of manastone + elder spiritist greaves + fungi + fungi staff combintion. infinite mana / HP like a shaman but better

except once you're done leveling you cant do shit

[zelld52]

except once you're done leveling you cant do shit

thats true but that ride up to 60 will be a breeze. port back to WC and manastone / ES greaves if youre on kunark or velious. charm is OP.

and then you hit 60 and your best feat is taking 30 mins to solo an ice burrower

[DeathsSilkyMist]

thats true but that ride up to 60 will be a breeze. port back to WC and manastone / ES greaves if youre on kunark or velious. charm is OP.

and then you hit 60 and your best feat is taking 30 mins to solo an ice burrower

I can solo an Ice Burrower in an hour on my Shaman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fsvt1xfuqY

[Duik]

Ain't nobody (who isn't insane to begin with) ever gonna watch an hour of you strangling ya worm.

[kjs86z2]

Ain't nobody (who isn't insane to begin with) ever gonna watch an hour of you strangling ya worm.

snortled and chortled

[Jimjam]

snortled and chortled

I thought a shaman would be faster.

My ranger took 90 minutes, that was without exploiting 2hander bonus and a whole bunch of other inefficiencies.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ain't nobody (who isn't insane to begin with) ever gonna watch an hour of you strangling ya worm.

You'd be suprised!

I thought a shaman would be faster.

My ranger took 90 minutes, that was without exploiting 2hander bonus and a whole bunch of other inefficiencies.

There might be faster methods. The method I used in the video was basically having my pet do all the damage. I just ran away and casted low level slows on the Burrower to keep it aggroed on me. Did Canni/Torpor whenever I got the chance and was far enough away. The doggo just slowly ate it's butt to death.

[Goregasmic]

Had an ICB and SCHWs laying around, nothing crazy and put it on a cleric twink along with a whole bunch of basic mana/hp gear. I'm only level 6 and I don't think it will last a long time without a fungi but I've been mowing down even cons and yellows with no downtime. Very useful when you're "in between" leveling spots. My only expectation was to breeze through the first 12 levels or so and start grouping in unrest or whatever so that works.

Mobs at low level have barely any attack so AC is mostly wasted and sta/wis/int returns will often be beaten by hp/mana gear until your 40s in general (every piece comparison is a case by case basis obviously). 400hp/mana at level 1 will help a ton but at level 40, not so much, still better than nothing, most of that junk is easily farmed.