Is there any evidence that Rogues could solo backstab in original EQ?

[Wakanda]

I knew how to do frontal backstab in duels, but I never knew anyone who got it to work on mobs while solo'ing. I actually remember when they buffed Rogues by making backstabs from the front do some regular piercing damage, whereas before it didn't do anything. And then they later added an AA called Chaotic Stab (https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:Chaotic_Stab) which allowed Rogues to backstab from the albeit for less damage.

Hard to imagine they would have done either of these changes if rogues were already capable of backstabbing for full damage while solo'ing mobs. And again, I do know it worked in PVP as I did it somewhat frequently. But I also tried to do it on mobs daily, especially low level mobs when I was running through zones. I would target them from far away and try to frontal backstab them the way I did players when running by them and it never worked.

Just curious if this was actually classic, or if it's just something that somehow got overlooked?

[Ekco]

you had to use a stun proc or do it versus a caster to do it reliably, ive heard of people getting one off by timing the server tick / mob direction facing just right by strafing through the npc's model though also.

so it's technically classic, it should have a 50/50 fail rate though to be classic in spirit.

[loramin]

What is extremely unclassic about p99 is NPC spellcasting.

One of the last black marks on an otherwise (96%?) classic server.

[Jimjam]

The mob behaviour for facings, etc was different, but it was possible with different techniques. It was less waiting for animations, more circle strafing and timing the button press.

[Keebz]

Everything cast like level 24 spells etc. Until late Luclin it was comical to kill casters as a melee.

I remember casters being a lot more random with their spell selection sometimes in really silly ways, but there were still mobs like arch magus in guk that would routinely fuck you up with nukes.

[loramin]

I remember casters being a lot more random with their spell selection sometimes in really silly ways, but there were still mobs like arch magus in guk that would routinely fuck you up with nukes.

Yeah. I believe the issue is that each caster mob had their own subset of spells. That subset could include the worst DD/DoT the mob could cast ... or it might not. As a result, many caster mobs were much easier on live, because they didn't use their full "toolkit".

I guess the devs here don't know what spells each mob should cast though, so instead of giving each one a new random list, they just do the unclassic thing and let every caster mob cast every spell.

[zelld52]

It’s a positioning thing and timing thing. Has nothing to do with how p99 devs tooled with the system.

If your rogue is outside the frontal 180 cone you can backstab. So after the mob swings there’s a tiny delay where they won’t move. After this swing, position to the side and backstab.

Did this on live from 2000-2002. It’s just about getting good at the timing and position

[Keebz]

Yeah. I believe the issue is that each caster mob had their own subset of spells. That subset could include the worst DD/DoT the mob could cast ... or it might not. As a result, many caster mobs were much easier on live, because they didn't use their full "toolkit".

They also seems smarter here? Could just be an artifact of what you describe, but I swear their rotations are better as well. For example, as I run through Kunark zones, random frog shamans will hit me with root -> blind -> dots in that order.

[WarpathEQ]

One thing is that internet connections weren't as solid back in 99-01. Pings on average would have been much higher based on client side connections but also the servers and the server load would have been less ideal than what we experience today. Combine that with less historic knowledge of game mechanics and it creates a scenario where this would have just been very rare behavior in era even with the game mechanics working identically it would really be something that only the most innovative players would have attempted and likely with a much lower success rate.

[Goregasmic]

They also seems smarter here? Could just be an artifact of what you describe, but I swear their rotations are better as well. For example, as I run through Kunark zones, random frog shamans will hit me with root -> blind -> dots in that order.

I killed like 60 CS sirens (ench) during last christmas and I paid close attention because I tried to interrupt the most annoying ones and it seemed to be random. Most were fans of dispell/slow but some didn't bother. Some chain nuked and some didn't at all. While the DOT seemed on the rarer side (as opposed to shamans/SKs) most casters/healers seem to love dispel though. Now that I think about it I don't remember them rooting/stunning/mezzing/blinding so its not "the entire spellbook".

I think the rotation is fairly limited so you're bound to see the same ones come back often and get some nasty sequences.