Common Monk Weapons Parsing - DPS and Damage Taken

[treefiddey]

Hi all - like a lot of you I was curious about how the various monk weapons compare, and whether things like Tstaff are really worth the money. While soloing in high keep, I decided to do some parsing to compare DPS and damage taken for various common monk weapon combinations. For example, it's conventional wisdom (and common sense) that 2HB is for tanking, because of fewer ripostes and Tstaff proc is a great threat generator. Fine, but how much better is it compared to Epic/SoS or Adamantite Club, etc...? This is what I tried to quantify.

The experiment: while lvl 58, kill a body guard over and over, without any buffs except Celestial Tranquility, always keeping under the weight limit. For each weapon set, I killed about 50 - 75 body guards, to try and smooth out the random nature of these relatively short fights and any level differences that the body guards might have from one spawn to another. All parses are shown below, with the median and standard error (standard deviation / sqrt(number of fights)) calculated.

This is very situational and these results do not apply to all scenarios, but should prove useful for folks looking for weapons to level/solo with.

Damage Per Second
Tranquil Staff = 58 +/- 1.3
Epic / Scepter of Mastery = 55.5 +/- 0.9
Baton of Royal Stature / Adamantite Club = 51 +/- 0.6

Highlights:
- Tranquil Staff really is great, but Epic/SoM is not that far behind.
- Baton of Royal Stature / Adamantite Club parsed about 14% lower than Tranquil Staff and 9% lower than Epic / Scepter of Mastery. Scepter of Mastery has an almost identical ratio to Stave of Shielding, so I expect the DPS to be similar to the more common Epic / SoS combo.

Comparisons to JKlein's P99 DPS Calculator

The DPS calculator predicted nearly identical DPS for Tstaff and Epic/SoM (76, 77) and 70 DPS for BoRS/AC, about 10% less.
In my parses, the BoRS/AC was 14% worse than Tstaff and 9% worse than Epic/SoM. So, when it comes to comparing to Dual Wield, the DPS Calculator seems useful as a way to compare weapons, but doesnt seem very good at predicting actual numbers. I have no idea why the prediction for the Tranquil Staff is so off, but one factor may be better DPS from Tstaff ripostes, as compared to ripostes for a 1H weapon.

Damage Taken (per fight)

Tranquil Staff = 1001 +/- 57
Baton of Royal Stature / Adamantite Club = 1169 +/- 40
Epic / Scepter of Mastery = 1244 +/- 62

The other thing I was interested in was how bad tanking with fast dual weilding really is, so I looked at damage taken, which is the second plot I attached. Pretty bad, is the answer. I took about 24% more damage per fight with epic/SoM vs Tstaff. If we consider that 4.5% DPS difference means ~4.5% longer fights, then about 19.5% of the extra damage taken can be attributed to extra ripostes and lack of Tstaff stun. Again, I know no one really tanks with epic/SoM, but I like seeing the numbers. (Not to mention that Tstaff is great for threat gen).

I was also curious if the dual stun procs from Baton of Royal Stature / Adamantite Club combo would help take less damage while tanking, because they're quite a bit cheaper than a Tstaff. The short answer is "yes, a bit."

Give than the median fight duration with the Baton of Royal Stature / Adamantite Club is 14% longer (because 14% lower dps), the 17% more damage taken with BoRS/AC vs Tstaff suggests that the stun procs are making up for the extra ripostes (as compared to the Tranquil Staff).

Final Thoughts
The data here support a lot of the common advice on these forums regarding weapon choice (though folks are far from unanimous). However, I hope seeing the numbers helps folks make a decision one way or another.
- The Tstaff parses, even across ~60 fights are noticeably more random, as compared to a fast 1H combo.
- These parses were done on ~lvl 45 mobs. This means that the Tstaff is slightly advantaged, because it is more likely to hit for more damage. However, I also wasn't STR buffed, so the 1H/DW combo didn't utilize the flat STR dmg bonus as much.

On Raids...
- These days on raids, I usually use epic/SoM and make sure I have max STR and ATK. I raid with Sanctum, which has a very wide mix of people, some with very high end gear and others just starting out (like me). I often end up in the 3-6th place of the melee DPS, usually right behind much better geared monks, well geared rogues, and beast rangers like Babwe. Given that my gear is basically velious group level, I'm fine with that.
- High end monk weapons are very few and far between, and those looking to improve their DPS might get more bang for their buck by focusing on survivability and maximizing their engagement time. Good MR gear to resist more fears and a few strategically placed uses of a Wort Pot can keep you in the fight longer, letting you do more damage, often by a huge margin. It's very hard to double your DPS if you're starting out at Epic/SoM, but it's very plausible to double your time engaged.

Just some data and opinions, not financial advice.

[Sizar]

The 2hb numbers get a touch better at 60 as well with the odd triple attack

[Jimjam]

Thanks for posting Treefiddy. I found it very interesting

[Eisai]

Me too. The data is valuable because it's given with context. Your log files would also be appreciated. You can strip them of chat using the takp tool.

[Snaggles]

Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time.

I think this is less an example of how bad the epic/SoM is for tanking and how beneficial stun procs can be, presuming a few factors:

If the ratio still holds up
Slow kills/effective stuns is what you hire a pally for. Monks pound per pound are better than a knight outside aggro but dps should always be a goal. The longer it takes to kill stuff the more damage you take unless you can offset a ton of time with stuns.

If the stun lands at all
The Tstaff is legit amazing. 0 check stuns on most high blues is a coin toss at best. Having basically 2ppm in the MH and 1ppm in the OH vs 2ppm from a Tstaff, I would usually pick the Tstaff.

If you are ok with RNG based performance
Per the above there is some luck evolved. Many monks would prefer to sublet gater-interruption-duty to other classes, outside tstaff use that shines for both.

I agree with the other posters in that the tstaff will reach full potential at 60 with the maximum damage bonus and triple attack (plus other melee skills). There will be times other combos may match it but that’s the result of a RNG based game. Over many parses, on average, better weapons beat worse ones. Higher dps classes beat lower dps classes unless significantly outgeared. IMHO outside iffy aggro situations I would bag and ignore everything but the tstaff. Arguably at 60 you could bag a Peacebringer and those two sticks could serve you literarily for anything. Maybe an IFS instead since that would be a great weapon to take down greens with damage shields until you pick up a Facesmasher or Shovel.


PS: I ran a test of the mage air pet on Shady Swashbuckler only trying to determine which pet took less damage. It was a tank test and 58 Air smashed 57 Earth severely. If your example is instead how well a monk can mitigate and dps isn’t a consideration, I can totally see two inferior stun weapons in some group setups. That said, the situation where this might come in handy also likely results in you tanking hard to stun or unstunnable npcs. Or ones that can only be stunned by the tstaff like Uluump.

[Duik]

Is the parse that Treefiddy provided above more aligned with what a *normie* could accumulate?
And by normie I mean what a non sweaty beard (as a 50+ yr old with an actual life) sans playing at work/midnight/weekends/permacamping/etc.

That is way more useful to me (many?) than trashing it as "crap dps so your whole guild is crap" did we not kill velious mobs with kunark lvl equipment/dps intially?

Just askin questions here folks.

[Snaggles]

While parsing on level 45 npcs as a sub 60 is better than greens it’s not the most ideal measure of performance. Mainly because the bodyguards were removed in the last patch and rarely blues are parsed unless using a specific hypothesis (ie: level 58 monk weapon sets vs low AC level 45 blue dps).

I’m not a critic or a fan outside appreciating the time spent. I just don’t know how to slot this into the understanding I currently have. Vindi, LT, Dain, Aary, Tunare, AoW are probably the best relative examples of things to chew on for extended periods of time. Most people have a parse or a dozen from these targets.

[jolanar]

Is the parse that Treefiddy provided above more aligned with what a *normie* could accumulate?
And by normie I mean what a non sweaty beard (as a 50+ yr old with an actual life) sans playing at work/midnight/weekends/permacamping/etc.

That is way more useful to me (many?) than trashing it as "crap dps so your whole guild is crap" did we not kill velious mobs with kunark lvl equipment/dps intially?

Just askin questions here folks.

Peacebringer is very cheap and has basically the same ratio as the T-staff but without the proc. So I would imagine the DPS is very similar.

However, I would be curious to see the difference with an Imbued Fighters Staff, which is 38/40. Is the slightly worse ratio (mostly due to 2hb bonus being less ideal at 40 speed) offset by less damage taken from the mob with a slower weapon?

[Eisai]

I think if riposte is only 5% of incoming damage than killing the mob faster matters more than avoiding a riposte.

[Troxx]

I think if riposte is only 5% of incoming damage than killing the mob faster matters more than avoiding a riposte.

Whatever percentage of incoming damage comes from riposte with a TStaff, it’s gonna be almost double from mainhand epic alone (30 delay vs 16) and that doesn’t even factor in ripostes from all those offhand hits at whatever delay the offhand carries.

Riposte dmg is not negligible and it is far less with a 2hander.

[Eisai]

Question was about a slower & worse ratio 2H.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Whatever percentage of incoming damage comes from riposte with a TStaff, it’s gonna be almost double from mainhand epic alone (30 delay vs 16) and that doesn’t even factor in ripostes from all those offhand hits at whatever delay the offhand carries.

Riposte dmg is not negligible and it is far less with a 2hander.

It depends. I took a look at my Monk parses in another thread:

I took a look at my logs for this video:

https://youtu.be/Ub0bfwyKpE0?feature=shared

On my 1h setup I got riposted 11 times, and swung my Epic Fist + SoS around 1035 times.

Funnily enough I also got 11 ripostes on my 2h setup of IFS
+ fistweaving, while only swinging ~500 times.

RNG sometimes works that way. It does look like riposte rates against players may be lower than I predicted in my previous post, which is good.

As I said in that thread, people were fine using 1h weapons before the 2h damage table change. I've been using my 1h setup on my Monk, and I generally don't notice a large increase in the damage I take. Raid mobs obviously hit harder, so ripostes can matter more on raid mobs.

[treefiddey]

Is the parse that Treefiddy provided above more aligned with what a *normie* could accumulate?
And by normie I mean what a non sweaty beard (as a 50+ yr old with an actual life) sans playing at work/midnight/weekends/permacamping/etc.

That is way more useful to me (many?) than trashing it as "crap dps so your whole guild is crap" did we not kill velious mobs with kunark lvl equipment/dps intially?

Just askin questions here folks.

Hi Duik and others! Thanks for taking the time to look at the stuff.

Yes, the main reason I did this was to help folks who are still leveling trying to decide where to invest money and how much better a solo/tank experience will be.

I never claimed that this is representative of the end game experience. I think my lvl 58 results should be very similar to what one might find at least 50 - 59, where monks spend most of their time leveling, and beyond but the Tstaff proc won't apply so it'll be slightly worse < 50.

I would've parsed the IFS, but I didnt have one and they took the bodyguards out before I could.

I also did this to test how much fights vary due to RNG. As you can see, they vary a lot. The average fight duration was about 45 seconds, which is probably on par with a typical leveling group.

[Crede]

Guys, we’re over analyzing this. Just use tstaff, always. And if it’s a raid mob, just wait to engage until like 90%, and keep using it.

[Ripqozko]

Thats about as correct as you can get.

But also, just join riot for a few weeks, buy an ST key and grab some priceless fists. Go back to your CSG and auto attack things.

Or spend 30k and less dkp for bo staff and call it a day

[Goregasmic]

Or you know, you could stop being half assed wankers and jump in the time machine to get a ton po's. Why do you guys have to always make this so complicated?

[Ripqozko]

Or you know, you could stop being half assed wankers and jump in the time machine to get a ton po's. Why do you guys have to always make this so complicated?

bo staff isnt hard tho, you get half the dkp you need just for applying to riot. you could get one in like 1-2 weeks of casual play and have a 2nd bis weapon.

[Crede]

I’m curious how the tstaff discussion went when the devs were working on kunark.

“So i decided to put one of the best ratio melee weapons in the game as a random trash drop in kc and have it be a better ratio than any epic weapon. And I think giving it a long stun proc will make it even more fun. But we’ll try to make it rare, despite the fact that groups will likely be here nonstop due to it being an outdoor, easily accessible zone.”

[PatChapp]

I’m curious how the tstaff discussion went when the devs were working on kunark.

“So i decided to put one of the best ratio melee weapons in the game as a random trash drop in kc and have it be a better ratio than any epic weapon. And I think giving it a long stun proc will make it even more fun. But we’ll try to make it rare, despite the fact that groups will likely be here nonstop due to it being an outdoor, easily accessible zone.”
Also,let's make it only usable by the most op melee class.

[Goregasmic]

Yeah but it weights 10.

TEN!

[jolanar]

Monks were obviously supposed to have better ratio weapons than other classes, so I dont think the 29/30 ratio was a mistake. It's ratio is on par with other similar two handers in high level Kunark dungeons.The proc kicks it up a notch, but that was nerfed on live later in the timeline.

[Jimjam]

Monks were obviously supposed to have better ratio weapons than other classes, so I dont think the 30/30 ratio was a mistake. It's ratio is on par with other similar two handers in high level Kunark dungeons.The proc kicks it up a notch, but that was nerfed on live later in the timeline.

Post vanilla, yea, but the initial concept was they sacrifice the best weapons (slashing) and armour (chain/plate) for their heightened abilities (better kicks, earlier skills that improve in cap through the 40s).

Kunark flipped the equation and now they got the best skills AND the best weapons. Velious then gave them armour near enough best too.

[jolanar]

All true. My comment was specifically about the tstaff fitting in with intended monk design, not whether that design was a mistake or not.

Now that high end gear is so ubiquitous on P99, much of the early gear advantage that monks have goes away. Example: Reaver being so cheap.

[Crede]

All true. My comment was specifically about the tstaff fitting in with intended monk design, not whether that design was a mistake or not.

Now that high end gear is so ubiquitous on P99, much of the early gear advantage that monks have goes away. Example: Reaver being so cheap.

Yea a reaver class can keep pace until 50+ when monks just pull away due to clicky haste, op mend/bind wound, and ridiculous mitigation and their dps continues to scale well. Nerf their dps and I think it fits the lore better of what a monk should be while still retaining superior mitigation/survival skills.

[Goregasmic]

Monks were obviously supposed to have better ratio weapons than other classes, so I dont think the 29/30 ratio was a mistake. It's ratio is on par with other similar two handers in high level Kunark dungeons.The proc kicks it up a notch, but that was nerfed on live later in the timeline.

I don't know, they removed ton po's, nerfed moss covered twig into irrelevance and even the RFS became the IFS and so on, somebody dropped the ball somewhat bit yeah, I guess the general idea still remains.

But like jimjam said, lack of chain/plate and weight restriction pretty much relegated them to shit gear during most of kunark. Now you'd think shit gear was a drawback but in the end being non gear dependent is a boon more than anything else... Then velious came and flipped the script on its head, pretty much removing the "drawback".

On another note I just wanted to thank OP for sharing his findings. Everyone says 2handers are leagues away from 1handers but from my napkin math it was pretty close and wondering if I was crazy. The parses show 2h still do better for his content but it is probably much closer when you compare an IFS vs AC/Epic + SOS. I'm partial to 2handers but people going 1handers aren't at a big disadvantage.

Some of you might think getting BIS stuff is easy to get but for a whole bunch of us it is pretty much unattainable so those parses are very interesting. Say what you will but finding 2k-7k will always remain far easier.

[Snaggles]

I don't know, they removed ton po's, nerfed moss covered twig into irrelevance and even the RFS became the IFS and so on, somebody dropped the ball somewhat bit yeah, I guess the general idea still remains.

But like jimjam said, lack of chain/plate and weight restriction pretty much relegated them to shit gear during most of kunark. Now you'd think shit gear was a drawback but in the end being non gear dependent is a boon more than anything else... Then velious came and flipped the script on its head, pretty much removing the "drawback".

On another note I just wanted to thank OP for sharing his findings. Everyone says 2handers are leagues away from 1handers but from my napkin math it was pretty close and wondering if I was crazy. The parses show 2h still do better for his content but it is probably much closer when you compare an IFS vs AC/Epic + SOS. I'm partial to 2handers but people going 1handers aren't at a big disadvantage.

Some of you might think getting BIS stuff is easy to get but for a whole bunch of us it is pretty much unattainable so those parses are very interesting. Say what you will but finding 2k-7k will always remain far easier.

Just because someone doesn’t have BiS doesn’t mean they shouldn’t objectively pick the best option available to them.

I can’t remember the last time I was impressed by a monk and an epic/sos. A Peacebringer on the other hand has surprised me. That’s a 500p weapon every monk can and should at least own past level 30. The parsing at 60 on challenging stuff just has these 2h’s running further ahead unless you have at minimum priceless fists.

Unlike real life, there is far less subjective truth in EQ. It’s just a big calculator with a fantasy theme. Like Crede said, people are overthinking this. Or worse, they know the right answer but are trying to justify the worse one to be quirky (only to get out-dpsed by mage water pets).

[Duik]

It's waterproof.

[eisley]

Mainly because the bodyguards were removed in the last patch

That really throws a wrench in the whole "leveling from 20 to 60 in High Keep alone" thing. Bummer.

[jolanar]

I don't know, they removed ton po's, nerfed moss covered twig into irrelevance and even the RFS became the IFS and so on, somebody dropped the ball somewhat bit yeah, I guess the general idea still remains.

The twig isn't a monk only weapon and the RFS wasn't a very good weapon except for leveling up a twink low level monk. The replacement IFS is a better weapon.

As for Ton Pos, who knows why they removed it, it's not even really much better than a Tstaff unless I'm just missing something.


Some of you might think getting BIS stuff is easy to get but for a whole bunch of us it is pretty much unattainable so those parses are very interesting. Say what you will but finding 2k-7k will always remain far easier.

Agree with this. Some act like getting raid gear is something you just log and and do like farming a fine steel weapon. In reality the majority of players will never make it to 60 before quitting, much less get quality raid gear.

[Vivitron]

I’m curious how the tstaff discussion went when the devs were working on kunark.

“So i decided to put one of the best ratio melee weapons in the game as a random trash drop in kc and have it be a better ratio than any epic weapon. And I think giving it a long stun proc will make it even more fun. But we’ll try to make it rare, despite the fact that groups will likely be here nonstop due to it being an outdoor, easily accessible zone.”
Haha "that sounds kind of limited, you better make the stun proc unresistable."

Narrators voice: "A few months later the designer of the t-staff would be one-upped by the designer of Abashi's Rod and the monk-only damage table."

[Ennewi]

Dev favoritism towards the monk class wasn't all that bad for the game IMO. They weren't wrong for wanting to do it. The class plays really well and becomes all the more fun with upgrades. But it would have gone a long way if some of that favor had been placed elsewhere more broadly.

Giving old Vulak's loot table a once-over, there are two monk-only drops and a third that is shared with necromancers. Though the headband gets pooh-poohed for falling short of 100hp BiS, all three drops overshadow much of what else is there. And no other class has that many Vulak drops available to it exclusively. Meanwhile, there is precisely one instrument in the entire zone for bards, one of two items only for bards but that's including the underwhelming flurry loot drop which doesn't measure up to any of the other flurry loot drops, much less the monk's.

Rewinding back to the Kunark expansion, as with pure casters, monks weren't provided with any fancy armor set, nothing akin to Deepwater and Tolan's. However, again there was an exception, as the class did receive Robe of the Whistling Fists which included a clicky that, unlike the Trakanon breastplates, was instant and clickable at 30 instead of 45. Similar case with their epic as well. All other melee epics are weapons that depend on procs.

As if to underscore this more lax approach, where before the class had only one race available to it (yet another unique limitation), Kunark added a race with innate AC and regen, two features that, together, benefitted monks more than any other class with necromancers being a close second, if not tied for first. Coin weight a nagging issue for one particular class? The next expansion introduces a very large coin purse. Limited supply of bandages? The same expansion introduces a small manisi plant.

Granted, very few players got ahold of these items during the classic timeline but still, every step of the way a restriction tied to class identity was eased if the player went above and beyond for those items. Most, if not all, of these items fall under rule of cool IMO, but there needed to be more elsewhere for other classes to level out the playing field.

[Goregasmic]

Just because someone doesn’t have BiS doesn’t mean they shouldn’t objectively pick the best option available to them.

I can’t remember the last time I was impressed by a monk and an epic/sos. A Peacebringer on the other hand has surprised me. That’s a 500p weapon every monk can and should at least own past level 30. The parsing at 60 on challenging stuff just has these 2h’s running further ahead unless you have at minimum priceless fists.

Unlike real life, there is far less subjective truth in EQ. It’s just a big calculator with a fantasy theme. Like Crede said, people are overthinking this. Or worse, they know the right answer but are trying to justify the worse one to be quirky (only to get out-dpsed by mage water pets).

100% agree but if someone wants to use 1h because reasons, it isn't a major disadvantage for that content, at least not as much as some think. AC + BoRS/SOS is probably shines a bit more when you're stuck tanking or dealing with casters...

But yeah, peacebringer is nice, staff of battle is 250pp if you're on a budget or want something 28% lighter and wu's QS like 75pp. Monk has so many good cheap 2hb options at this point, especially for leveling pre 40s, it would be crazy to pass them up. Just carry a wu stick to keep 1hb leveled and then at 60 you can broaden your horizons if you feel like testing stuff.

Most of that stuff is already figured out but your circumstances may vary. "Trust but verify" doesn't hurt especially when all those weapons are sub 5kpp.

[Vivitron]

Dev favoritism towards the monk class wasn't all that bad for the game IMO. They weren't wrong for wanting to do it. The class plays really well and becomes all the more fun with upgrades. But it would have gone a long way if some of that favor had been placed elsewhere more broadly.

Giving old Vulak's loot table a once-over, there are two monk-only drops and a third that is shared with necromancers. Though the headband gets pooh-poohed for falling short of 100hp BiS, all three drops overshadow much of what else is there. And no other class has that many Vulak drops available to it exclusively. Meanwhile, there is precisely one instrument in the entire zone for bards, one of two items only for bards but that's including the underwhelming flurry loot drop which doesn't measure up to any of the other flurry loot drops, much less the monk's.

Rewinding back to the Kunark expansion, as with pure casters, monks weren't provided with any fancy armor set, nothing akin to Deepwater and Tolan's. However, again there was an exception, as the class did receive Robe of the Whistling Fists which included a clicky that, unlike the Trakanon breastplates, was instant and clickable at 30 instead of 45. Similar case with their epic as well. All other melee epics are weapons that depend on procs.

As if to underscore this more lax approach, where before the class had only one race available to it (yet another unique limitation), Kunark added a race with innate AC and regen, two features that, together, benefitted monks more than any other class with necromancers being a close second, if not tied for first. Coin weight a nagging issue for one particular class? The next expansion introduces a very large coin purse. Limited supply of bandages? The same expansion introduces a small manisi plant.

Granted, very few players got ahold of these items during the classic timeline but still, every step of the way a restriction tied to class identity was eased if the player went above and beyond for those items. Most, if not all, of these items fall under rule of cool IMO, but there needed to be more elsewhere for other classes to level out the playing field.

An interesting perspective, I agree the drive to get those those rule of cool items that remove your limitations and make you more independent is a strong aspect of the game. On the bard side, getting prime hand instruments so you can cast+melee is one of those things. But it is weird that the only Velious bis instrument is from SG instead of raid content; the ToV horn is worse than the sky horn.

[Ennewi]

An interesting perspective, I agree the drive to get those those rule of cool items that remove your limitations and make you more independent is a strong aspect of the game.

Another example—rangers not having the ability to port despite borrowing from the druid's spell list. With enough plat or the right guild tag, a unique self-port becomes unlocked with a click of Tolan's Breastplate. Sure, it takes three times longer to cast than self-only ports do for druids, but with no mana cost and no spell slot required.

The devs coulda shoulda added in an element of risk though, sending rangers to Kithicor Forest instead of Lesser Faydark. Then, depending on the hour, there would be the potential for an embarrassing death, not all that different for wizards porting into Skyfire. Granted, lfay is arguably more dangerous than Kithicor, what with all of the brownies running around and a months-long change involving Cazic Thule minions, but the actual port-in loc is safe.

On the bard side, getting prime hand instruments so you can cast+melee is one of those things. But it is weird that the only Velious bis instrument is from SG instead of raid content; the ToV horn is worse than the sky horn.

Yeah its value lies mostly in the primary slot convenience, especially since Velious added a pair of weapons with group-wide procs. That it also boasts very high AC, similar to the flurry drop for bards, indicates the devs were still mindful of song aggro. Hard to make sense of the 22 mod though. Guessing the same dev had to be responsible for Lute of the Howler as well, since same mod and also primary. In the case of the horn, 22 is acceptable if not in with the tank group. One mod lower than Kunark secondary horn and two lower than Sky primary. So the devs must have expected players to continue revisiting those old zones and finishing the Plane of Sky quests, even though there would be no 2.0 treatment for Sky as was the case with Fear and Hate.

As for Drums of the Beast, AFAIK the whole of SG was more or less considered raid content back then, at least until the zonewide nerf that made CCing less of a crapshoot.

The fact that bards were the most hybrid of hybrids meant that they didn't have a specific parent class for quick reference, to compare and contrast or piggyback off of, so that may have contributed to them receiving less dev attention overall. Using rangers as an example again, druids receive wolf form? Okay, well let's give rangers the same spells at higher levels with the exception of a rare weapon that procs the best version of the spell earlier. Insert the Lupine Dagger here.

Even though the game plays very differently depending on what you choose at character select (although at early levels every class is basically the same, weak melee), eventually the black and white absolutes begin to gray, with there being more than one exception to most any given rule, available to the player of each class if dedicated enough.

That said, who tf knows what the devs were thinking with Scimitar of the Mistwalker. Yes, there is some overlap between the druid/ranger and shaman. All three get spirit of wolf at various levels, plus both shaman and druid can charm animals, but little more than an affinity for nature seems to connect them. Maybe, initially, druids were going to receive wolf pets as well? But that idea got scrapped because class identity required more contrast, so druids were eventually given the bear pet instead as a consolation. Either that or the devs floated the idea of a beastmaster class at some point during alpha/beta, but it didn't materialize since they already had too many classes to get into the game by launch. It also could just be another case of the BFG, where a dev went rogue and added something they wanted just because, only for it to be removed later.

[Snaggles]

Mistwalker got nerfed.
BFG planks dried up.

It’s almost like OG dev’s were afraid of rangers…

[Silverback]

OP, what was your dexterity when you ran the original parses?

[Knuckle]

Does anything beat nexona staff besides abashis?

[Silverback]

To answer my own question I see on the graphic that dex was 108

[kjs86z2]

Does anything beat nexona staff besides abashis?

no but facesmasher and shovel aren't bad if you can get on the cheap