BIS Wizard. Is it worth it?

[avarantor]

For those of you who have done this, or theorycrafters. Is it worth equipping a wizard with BIS gear? Obviously a larger mana pool means more Velious Giant, and Dragon nukes.

I enjoy raiding on a wiz, but I'm an altoholic and DKP is always in short supply. It's either spend it on the Wizard or one of the other classes I play. The others being Ranger, SK, Necro and shaman respectively.

[Ripqozko]

i just finished twinking and lvling my wiz to 60, had hot gear, all 3 city leader heads, full vp set (crown of rile, robe, hosh staff, cloak, ear) etc. is it worth it? ehh prob made minimal impact but did make things easier. we are here for infinite time why not gear everything?

[enjchanter]

The answer is absolutely not.

Acquiring more gear on a wizard will enable you to do almost nothing you couldn't do with ec gear

Atleast when you get bis gear on an enc or necro, you're improving your safety and QoL while soloing or becoming more tanky where you can actually tap tank or rune tank stuff that would slap you around before.

Or if you're a monk/tank you become much more capable of holding your own solo or low man. Geared knights are great for doing things like fungi king or drusella.

A bis wizard still doesn't gain any of these benefit even with proportionally better gear.

Their primary solo style doesn't involve getting hit or even really risking getting hit and your mana pool with likely never be big enough to really kill anything solo that matters. You won't fit into any low man groups besides aoeing with bards but there's basically no reason to do that anywhere after you're 60.

Consider what the gear you're buying will enable you to do that you couldn't do without it.

If casting 2 extra nukes per fight is worth it to you then by all means go ahead but don't say no one warned you.

[sajbert]

Depends on your goals.

BIS-gearing your wizard will make you more tanky and that could maybe allow you to take on some pulls or fights in dungeons that’d otherwise likely kill you. You stil fold to most summononing mobs regardless. More mana means less when mob HP pools are so huge and you have VP robe.

Resists are nice, for raiding. Together with HP resists are the biggest thing but you can get sufficient stats without expensive raid loot. An extra dragonbane or three won’t make or break raid encounters either.

But say you gear a shaman or Enchanter instead with BIS gear. Now you can solo farm plat better, but for what do you need it?

My main beef with Wiz is that you don’t really get groups. Doesn’t matter what gear, people don’t care. For that stuff people are happy to have a cleric or enchanter BIS or crap geared.

[Toxigen]

save your dkp for your melees and enchanter / shaman

-former altoholic / bargain dkp enjoyer

[strongNpretty]

I'd say these are all good points- A wizard's strategy in killing is never a need of more HP's. And a bigger mana pool only matters if you have full mana. And if you're in a group, the bigger mana pool just doesn't matter. Even then, 2 or 3 extra nukes isn't going to allow you to do anything you already couldn't do. The only benefit the mana pool has, is to take down 1 specific mob, when you're able to have full mana, and can dump it all on something.. And i'm just not sure it makes enough of a difference to blow all your resources on to obtain said gear.

[Naethyn]

Geared wizards used to be able to quad kite DN before they summoned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngNvVoheQw0

[Crede]

Full bis is best spent on a FD class imo. Having that get out of jail free card allows you to push the boundaries in some dangerous zones. A lot of people like to bis their sk for that reason. You can pop into the planes and kill shit. Bis necros are also really powerful. Monks probably scale the best in all elements of the game but it wasnt on your list.

[Toxigen]

imagine being in the position where you can no-life RA and you dont know what to spend your diaper kill points on

[Jimjam]

imagine being in the position where you can no-life RA and you dont know what to spend your diaper kill points on

As if it even really matters what you pick either!

[Snaggles]

I don’t have BiS but with like 3200, both banes, and no epics there are times I wish I had an extra 1-1.5k mana and similar HP’s. The epic would be a nice luxury too.

I’ve had to rely on Steelskin Sky ring clicks, mystic cloaks, and wort pots. I can still get by just fine though so I guess it’s more of a “nice to have” than a necessity.

[Andyman1022]

not worth wouldnt do. sydg real melee class

[Naethyn]

Honestly the best item to get is Zlandi heart and I say that for every int class.

[avarantor]

Thank you everyone for all the comments. At the end of the day certain classes get a higher return on better gear than others. I'll get my wizard to a decent level, but will focus that dkp elsewhere to one of my two melee, shaman or necro. The wiz is quite enjoyable as it is already.

Thanks everyone!

[sajbert]

Level 60
Jboots
Flux staff
Pegi cloak
Sky neck
Sky ring
VP Robe
OT hammer
VP lure staff/cane
Epic
Dragon + Giantbane spells
Nektulos portal staff
Skyshrine boots + legs
Bracer of the Hidden or other see invis item
Zombie Flesh Bracer or Enduring Breath item
Purchasable resist and hp/mana-gear
Optional useful minmax: Manastone and Z-heart

Anything after THAT is pretty useless IMO. Should keep most people busy for a long time. But yeah once you get there the wiz is a class that you may feel is taking you nowhere. If you actually enjoy raiding, and many don’t, it may be a goof vessel for you and added gear serve as medals. Even of you do enjoy raiding you still may prefer a class that can make bigger plays or that’s engaging in more fights. If you don’t love raiding you have a class that’s good for farming DKP but nothing else, still not welcome in groups and still not a good plat farmer or dungeon crawler.

[Keebz]

Honestly the best item to get is Zlandi heart and I say that for every int class.

I always wanted to get this and max AoB items for my wizard, so I could shrug off Acid Jet while I kited. Maybe cap MR and stack some HP as well.

Best part about playing a wizard imho.

[Pint]

If your wizard alt is a kuanrk dragon/vp alt then yea bis geared toward sitting under dragons would probably be pretty cool

[Toxigen]

If your wizard alt is a kuanrk dragon/vp alt then yea bis geared toward sitting under dragons would probably be pretty cool

this - but lets face it rogue bot armies in VP makes this pretty much outdated

[Naethyn]

I went VP for my wizard because no one asks for TLs.

[Balimon]

I think necros may be the only cloth class worth going BIS on? Anyone agree? Mage/wiz not worth it, chanters benefit from it, however it certainly isn't needed.

[Ripqozko]

I think necros may be the only cloth class worth going BIS on? Anyone agree? Mage/wiz not worth it, chanters benefit from it, however it certainly isn't needed.

depends on the utility you use the necro for, are you mostly doing raids or are you solo, for raids not really. infact for VP youd need to be low hp 99% of time anyways for train ups. For solo use absolutely, the kit +willsapper is great, enchanters benefit quite a bit too for solo utility and gear. id still gear a melee>

[shovelquest]

I think necros may be the only cloth class worth going BIS on? Anyone agree? Mage/wiz not worth it, chanters benefit from it, however it certainly isn't needed.

Enchanter doesn't even need to level past 57 to pretty much do everything in classic.

[Vexenu]

A BiS Necro probably feels super nice to play with such a large HP pool, but unfortunately it doesn't do much to functionally expand the power of the character, unlike a BiS melee. Although I do think I remember a video of some near-BiS Necro doing some crazy lifetap tanking soloing, so I guess there's always that.

[Crede]

The real answer is to not try to be bis and build an alt army where that dkp spread across them will go farther. 2nd bis to bis is an enormous amount of dkp.

But necros are gonna see the most change from going bis. It’ll unlock a new form of Soloing for them via willsapper/deflux face tanking whereas enchanter it will just further increase their security. So while enchanters still have a higher ceiling I think it’d be more fun on a necro with all their utility and having fd gives you that huge safety net if things get outta hand trying to push the limits.

But if not cloth id prob go bis on a sk.

[Toxigen]

Unchainedfury - breaking the meta with 100hp items

lol

[Crede]

Unchainedfury - breaking the meta with 100hp items

lol

Haha yea. I know some necros got abashi too. Must have pissed off soo many monks lol.

[Ripqozko]

Haha yea. I know some necros got abashi too. Must have pissed off soo many monks lol.

only 1 that i know of kharrizar, who else got one?

[enjchanter]

Unchainedfury - breaking the meta with 100hp items

lol

yeah who knew you can auto attack blue mobs when you have 4k hp and infinite heals

[getsome]

Go Big, Go Hard. (in kunark alt gear)

[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!

[Jimjam]

Well mitigated, sir.

[PatChapp]

only 1 that i know of kharrizar, who else got one?

Sesserdrix first necro abashi on green

[Ripqozko]

Sesserdrix first necro abashi on green

Ah green doesn't matter, makes sense

[Ekco]

this - but lets face it rogue bot armies in VP makes this pretty much outdated

this meta shift to rogue bots was soul crushing as a wizard main, going from getting cothed down to trak like 3rd and actually making a difference to the only gameplay you had each week being kiting vulak guards was lame as fuck

[Vaarsuvius]

Go Big, Go Hard. (in kunark alt gear)

[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!


You took 2985 hp dmg .... that's a very nice Kunark alt gear HP pool for a wizard :)

[Toxigen]

this meta shift to rogue bots was soul crushing as a wizard main, going from getting cothed down to trak like 3rd and actually making a difference to the only gameplay you had each week being kiting vulak guards was lame as fuck

disc op

[Salaryman]

the game is pointless at 60 without pvp? you dont say

[Goregasmic]

Mained a wizard during classic and raided velious content.

The thing everybody slams wizard for is not being able to do enough stable DPS but having extra mana helps you get closer to that assuming you have some downtime every now and then. More chances of also having that burst on tap and for longer if the situation arises. Also gives you more flexibility to do better plays in some situations. And if you're not 60 yet it might unlock an extra quad or lets you clear an entire camp before going afk for 15 minutes.

Also if you run OOM during raid encounters, more mana is better and you should probably adjust accordingly. Resist/hp gear will also dig a hole in your pool so having some solid gear pieces mitigates that.

Better gear gives you more fun and flexibility/survival to be a better asset to the people around you and saying "you can just do the same stuff" is silly as it could apply to almost any class when you get to min/maxing and is irrelevant if you want to main the class.

[Duik]

Hey salary, i think your dead horse is flayed sufficently.

[Salaryman]

Hey salary, i think your dead horse is flayed sufficently.

Its not, let me flay it some more.

Now I see alot of you pve nerds playing your nerdy video games, I see you with full ntov in the easy commons tunnels. displaying your items afk, not afraid of dyeing to pvp, not pvping, not going outside and getting a gf.

What can you do with full ntov, kill vulak again? you already killed vulak without the full ntov. The pve nerd argument of course Is that it makes you kill vulak faster, so you can go onto the next dragon poosock b4 the other guild does.

But thats competition, if you want competetion, why not play pvp?

[Ripqozko]

Its not, let me flay it some more.

Now I see alot of you pve nerds playing your nerdy video games, I see you with full ntov in the easy commons tunnels. displaying your items afk, not afraid of dyeing to pvp, not pvping, not going outside and getting a gf.

What can you do with full ntov, kill vulak again? you already killed vulak without the full ntov. The pve nerd argument of course Is that it makes you kill vulak faster, so you can go onto the next dragon poosock b4 the other guild does.

But thats competition, if you want competetion, why not play pvp?

Your server has 30 people max, its dead. Sorry you dont got population. Hope that helps. Consider the next drug box that comes out for pvp.

[Salaryman]

Your server has 30 people max, its dead. Sorry you dont got population. Hope that helps. Consider the next drug box that comes out for pvp.

Im having tons of fun on the server, heres a pic of me in a Guardian Robe (IM the number #1 PVP Champion in all of EverQuest History)

You have yet to refute my point, also I dont want more people playing because alot of zones can be dominated by 1 bard or enchanter, so infact its your nerd pve server thats actualy too full.

https://i.imgur.com/rAiYIzC.png

[Duik]

I dont want more people playing pvp.
Also, please play pvp cuz its le good.
Also also, my mum says im the besterest boy in all of pvp and my dress wearing ranger is good cuz it allows me to wear a dress and not get laughed at (lolocaust).

Also your mummy probably: can I have my heels back please, your father needs to wear them.

[Toxigen]

(IM the number #1 PVP Champion in all of EverQuest History)


boomwiz says hi, nonfactor

[busted]

BiS a bard and never look back

*zoom zoom*

[Crede]

BiS a bard and never look back

*zoom zoom*

Does going bis on a bard scale well outside of raids?

[busted]

Does going bis on a bard scale well outside of raids?

Ohhhh yeah.

My bard can face tank solo almost* anything in HS/Seb/karnors and I'm not even BiS yet. Working on it.

Stuff that hits for 200+ gets dicey for me (b/c still many slots not BiS). Sub 160 hitters I can solo with 0 mezzes.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Essence_Mace + https://wiki.project1999.com/Silver_Whip_of_Rage + dex build + slow song + 2x heal songs + fungi/vindi bp + ring 10 make you a beefy bardie boy.

If you haven't tried a battle bard. I recommend it. Really fun play style and you don't have to run around in circles swarming

[Jimjam]

busted, If you add up how much AC is on your bard’s gear, what number does that come to?

[Toxigen]

ill take a bis enchanter over bis bard any damn day

but there are a ton of classes id put way under bis bard tho

[busted]

busted, If you add up how much AC is on your bard’s gear, what number does that come to?

AC is ok (magelo calc seems low/off tho). Here is my magelo https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Phenomic . As you can see still not BiS in may places. Dex focused build. Might swap it around when I get a primal. But I do love my procs. 150rune + 80hp lifetap boost my HP at least 1k per fight

Before white dragon helm I had https://wiki.project1999.com/Helmet_of_the_Crawler which people don't like but it seemed like a big mitigation boost to me (maybe just in my head)

[Jimjam]

Nice gear!

Thank you for sharing!What are you struggling to tank in KC with 300 worn ac?!

[Keebz]

Essence mace but no primal? Do primals just go for infinite on blue these days?

[busted]

Nice gear!

Thank you for sharing!What are you struggling to tank in KC with 300 worn ac?!

Hey thanks. Still a work in progress :).

Nothing stopping me in KC it's easy. I just never go there. For beefier dudes like verix, I would need to get out the charm guns to survive.

I prefer seb for fun.

Aside - Checkout melatunin's youtube for amazing bard feats https://www.youtube.com/@melatuninthevirtuoso3659

[Vivitron]

I enjoy raiding on a wiz, but I'm an altoholic and DKP is always in short supply. It's either spend it on the Wizard or one of the other classes I play. The others being Ranger, SK, Necro and shaman respectively.
I have access to Somebody Else's Nicely Geared Wizard. I agree it's a fun raid toon. He geared it with the clickies (except mana stone) and a big mana pool, but not a ton of +hp on it. It seems like a pretty good cost/effectiveness trade off. I don't know enough about wizards in vp though so that's a blind spot for me.

I think it makes sense to start out with the low hanging fruit on multiple characters, and by the time you get that sorted you may have a feel for whether you want to chase bis on one of them.

I don't reach for the wizard outside of raids. That doesn't mean it's wrong to bis a wizard -- I've seen guildmates happily chase bis on their favorite chars even if they aren't great solo/small scale classes -- but to me it would probably take some of the motivation out of it.

Does going bis on a bard scale well outside of raids?

It's no monk, but I don't regret gearing my bard concurrently with my enchanter.

My primary non-raid goal as I improve my bards gear has been solo challenges. Like busted suggested seb ABC/Disco/Crypt and similarly difficult mobs are in reach -- for example I killed Hiero toe-to-toe without mez or worts and I was hyped for that (got the cloak, probably the last upgrade I will be able to self solo on my bard).

I have done some solo farming on him too; did coldain skin boots/gloves for a while, a few ww dragons, and enough droga to faction a couple of my characters with the skins/salts.

I'm missing ring 10, regal band, and many stat pieces, but have arguably bis held items.

My enchanter *is* more widely useful in small scale stuff and has higher value solo options, but I'm not blocked by gear check on him and it's nice to have the bard available as a change of pace.