SK Leveling: Vindi BP and Fungi Tunic

[Knuckle]

If you are level 30 SK with Fungi Tunic and Vindi BP, Do you save the vindi BP for group content, or solo with it and pop the fungi on at a certain point or during downtime? Trying to feel it out seems like the fungi still better most of the time during soloing?

[PatChapp]

Fungi unless your full health or need the resists.

[Toxigen]

fungi always

[Cecily]

I've been wearing a fungi the whole time on my SK. The Vindi makes sense if you're getting CHed or only doing damage. I find I get clipped enough during fear kiting that I generally just leave the fungi on.

[shovelquest]

So really the fungi will tick up enough during a fight to dwarf the 100 HP? That blows my mind. But my mind is easily blown.

[Cecily]

It's 150 hp / minute, so yeah.

[shovelquest]

Even while fighting? That is so crazy to me. I honestly had no idea that you could regen more than a 100 HP item with that thing during a fight.

[greatdane]

Anytime you're taking damage but are not in danger of dying before the fight is over, fungi is better.

So really the fungi will tick up enough during a fight to dwarf the 100 HP? That blows my mind. But my mind is easily blown.

That's the wrong way to look at it. 100 HP does literally nothing until you drop below 100 HP, or receive a Complete Heal. If you aren't dying - which a level 30 with fungi shouldn't do - it makes no difference whether you have 1k HP or 50k. All that matters is how many mobs you can kill per hour. Regenerating HP helps you kill more mobs, having more HP does not. The only thing HP does on its own is make it take longer for you to die, and if you're not going to die, it didn't help you in any way.

Even while fighting? That is so crazy to me. I honestly had no idea that you could regen more than a 100 HP item with that thing during a fight.

You're not gaining 100 HP per fight from wearing a 100 HP item.

[Toxigen]

yikes

[Troxx]

Agree fungi is best but it is not 150hp a minute compared to Vindi.

Vindi has some regen on it along with the attack bonus from AoB.

Still 130hp/minute advantage is nothing to sneeze at

[Crede]

Fungi is the most broken item in the game. There’s no reason to ever take it off except for fashion. A troll/iksar epic/ring 10 sk can regen 87/tick standing with epic proc. This is insanely good. Sks should be stacking regen more than probably any other class.

[Snaggles]

The key factor is “level 30”. Fungi and it’s not even close.

Whenever solo or even a scrappy duo/trio the extra regen is ace. The better rounded the group or raid, the less it’s necessary. I’ll take the hps, attack, and svs in that case, especially if I’m the target of a CH.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

From levels 1-45 or so, Fungi will be better when soloing and grouping. This is because mobs levels 1-39 are significantly weaker than mobs level 40+. The 150 hp/minute regen does a great job of keeping pace with the mob's average DPS, and you have a smaller max HP pool at lower levels. This means it takes less time at lower levels to get back to 100% HP.

Fungi is also great at all levels when fear kiting. You can avoid a lot of meditation downtime by using clickies and regen items while fear kiting.

When you reach level 50+, I would use Vindi over Fungi when tanking in a normal group.

Vindi BP gives you at least 150 max HP when you are level 50+ and not STA capped. This means you are soaking 1 minutes worth of Fungi Tunic regen per heal that puts you back to 100% HP. The extra AC from Vindi is reducing the damage you take, and the AoB is still giving you 20 HP/Minute. Vindi BP can easily soak more than 150 damage per minute, depending on how often you get hit and healed.

The resistances also help a lot when dealing with casters, which will put Vindi BP further ahead of Fungi in those scenarios. Having 15+ all res on a single item may allow you to swap out less gear for resistance gear, meaning you may be able to keep more AC and HP gear on.

[Vexenu]

DSM returns!

wb

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM returns!

wb

Thanks!

[Toxigen]

When you reach level 50+, I would use Vindi over Fungi when tanking in a normal group.



this is really only true if your "normal" group is cleric + slower

if no cleric and slows, its fungi all the way

lots of off meta small groups happen nowadays since people have realized 5 and 6 man groups suck ass

[DeathsSilkyMist]

this is really only true if your "normal" group is cleric + slower

if no cleric and slows, its fungi all the way

lots of off meta small groups happen nowadays since people have realized 5 and 6 man groups suck ass

I agree that groups of 5 or 6 people generally suck for XP. People have known that for years.

We can do some basic math. Fungi Tunic reduces average DPS by 15 HP / 6 seconds (1 Tick) = 2.5 DPS.

When you are fighting lower level mobs that do 5 DPS, Fungi Tunic is reducing the DPS you take by 50%. That is obviously huge. This is why Fungi Tunic is so broken at lower levels.

When you are fighting higher level mobs that do 30 DPS, Fungi Tunic is reducing the DPS you take by 8.3%, which is much smaller. That is the downside to Fungi Tunic as a defensive item. Mob DPS increases as you level, while Fungi Tunic DPS reduction remains constant.

AC reduces more damage at higher levels, due to mobs dealing more damage. This is talking about normal mobs, not something like AoW that generally doesn't care about AC.

If you look at a Ratfink in PoM, this is it's damage table:

[28, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55, 60, 66, 71, 77, 82, 88, 93, 99, 104, 110, 115, 121, 126, 132]

Unslowed mobs get 1 attack per 2 seconds, and from my understanding have roughly a 50% chance to double attack when they are in their 40s. This means on average the mob will attempt to hit you 45 times, with a miss rate of 50%. So you'll be taking roughly 22 hits per minute. Last time I checked I think my SK was preventing roughly 10% of all hits with dodge, parry, and riposte. So you'll get hit around 20 times per minute via a Ratfink.

I don't have the numbers to guarantee this is the case, but if the extra 24 AC from Vindi BP is reducing the damage roll you'll get by 1 on average, this means you'll be saving 5 or 6 damage per hit. 5.5 x 20 = 110 HP per minute, and you get 20 HP per minute from AoB. That means Vindi BP is saving 130 HP per minute on average compared to 150 HP per minute via Fungi Tunic at higher levels. If you get healed to full once every 7 minutes, you'll get that 20 HP difference back due to Vindi BP giving you 150+ max HP.

It's pretty easy to see that Vindi BP will generally at least break even with Fungi Tunic when it comes to damage reduction while tanking non-caster mobs. Additionally, it can reduce more damage as well if the extra AC reduces the damage roll by more than one, or if you get healed to full more often than once every 7 minutes. With casting mobs you'll see an even larger gain with Vindi BP, as you are increasing the chances of reducing or nullifying damage from a spell. Levels 50+ you are more likely to run into casters, and casters at higher levels tend to have decent damage on their spells.

If you are slowing most mobs, then Fungi Tunic gets better in some cases. This is because you'll reduce 30 DPS down to 10 DPS, which means Fungi Tunic is now reducing DPS by 25%. The main thing people forget to take into account when dealing with higher level mobs is damage spikes. If a mob gets lucky and happens to double attack twice for 132 damage in 8 seconds, you've now gotten nuked for 528 damage. Fungi Tunic will only reduce 15 of that damage in that 8 second timeframe. Extra AC could reduce the damage rolls on multiple max hits, saving you potentially 100+ HP. Depending on how many mobs are attacking you, and how much HP you have remaining, that could be the difference between life and death when waiting for a heal to come in. That is the other downside to Fungi Tunic. It cannot soak a lot of damage in a short time frame during damage spikes, where AC and Resists can.

[Crede]

I agree that groups of 5 or 6 people generally suck for XP. People have known that for years.

We can do some basic math. Fungi Tunic reduces average DPS by 15 HP / 6 seconds (1 Tick) = 2.5 DPS.

When you are fighting lower level mobs that do 5 DPS, Fungi Tunic is reducing the DPS you take by 50%. That is obviously huge. This is why Fungi Tunic is so broken at lower levels.

When you are fighting higher level mobs that do 30 DPS, Fungi Tunic is reducing the DPS you take by 8.3%, which is much smaller. That is the downside to Fungi Tunic as a defensive item. Mob DPS increases as you level, while Fungi Tunic DPS reduction remains constant.

AC reduces more damage at higher levels, due to mobs dealing more damage. This is talking about normal mobs, not something like AoW that generally doesn't care about AC.

If you look at a Ratfink in PoM, this is it's damage table:

[28, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55, 60, 66, 71, 77, 82, 88, 93, 99, 104, 110, 115, 121, 126, 132]

Unslowed mobs get 1 attack per 2 seconds, and from my understanding have roughly a 50% chance to double attack when they are in their 40s. This means on average the mob will attempt to hit you 45 times, with a miss rate of 50%. So you'll be taking roughly 22 hits per minute. Last time I checked I think my SK was preventing roughly 10% of all hits with dodge, parry, and riposte. So you'll get hit around 20 times per minute via a Ratfink.

I don't have the numbers to guarantee this is the case, but if the extra 24 AC from Vindi BP is reducing the damage roll you'll get by 1 on average, this means you'll be saving 5 or 6 damage per hit. 5.5 x 20 = 110 HP per minute, and you get 20 HP per minute from AoB. That means Vindi BP is saving 130 HP per minute on average compared to 150 HP per minute via Fungi Tunic at higher levels. If you get healed to full once every 7 minutes, you'll get that 20 HP difference back due to Vindi BP giving you 150+ max HP.

It's pretty easy to see that Vindi BP will generally at least break even with Fungi Tunic when it comes to damage reduction while tanking non-caster mobs. Additionally, it can reduce more damage as well if the extra AC reduces the damage roll by more than one, or if you get healed to full more often than once every 7 minutes. With casting mobs you'll see an even larger gain with Vindi BP, as you are increasing the chances of reducing or nullifying damage from a spell. Levels 50+ you are more likely to run into casters, and casters at higher levels tend to have decent damage on their spells.

If you are slowing most mobs, then Fungi Tunic gets better in some cases. This is because you'll reduce 30 DPS down to 10 DPS, which means Fungi Tunic is now reducing DPS by 25%. The main thing people forget to take into account when dealing with higher level mobs is damage spikes. If a mob gets lucky and happens to double attack twice for 132 damage in 8 seconds, you've now gotten nuked for 528 damage. Fungi Tunic will only reduce 15 of that damage in that 8 second timeframe. Extra AC could reduce the damage rolls on multiple max hits, saving you potentially 100+ HP. Depending on how many mobs are attacking you, and how much HP you have remaining, that could be the difference between life and death when waiting for a heal to come in. That is the other downside to Fungi Tunic. It cannot soak a lot of damage in a short time frame during damage spikes, where AC and Resists can.

Your math assumes you are taking hits nearly the whole time. What you need to factor in is out of combat stuff too. It's really hard to be engaged with mobs 100% of the time. For example, I was in a seb crypt/emp group recently with a druid healing. He was struggling to keep up with mana as the primary healer even with slows. There's inactive time in that camp, between waiting for spawns & moving between crypt/emp, splitting, etc. Every second you aren't in combat and not at full health(very common with subpar heals) fungi will start to pull away from vindi significantly.

So while vindi bp during tanking may be somewhat equivalent to a fungi in terms of mitigation, generally speaking you're just better off having the fungi equipped the entire time, so you don't miss those inactive benefits that add up to a lot over time, especially when youre healing is subpar. It's hard to find perfect group compositions these days where you have an enc/cleric keeping things running smoothly(they're usually off duoing together).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Your math assumes you are taking hits nearly the whole time. What you need to factor in is out of combat stuff too. It's really hard to be engaged with mobs 100% of the time. For example, I was in a seb crypt/emp group recently with a druid healing. He was struggling to keep up with mana as the primary healer even with slows. There's inactive time in that camp, between waiting for spawns & moving between crypt/emp, splitting, etc. Every second you aren't in combat and not at full health(very common with subpar heals) fungi will start to pull away from vindi significantly.

So while vindi bp during tanking may be somewhat equivalent to a fungi in terms of mitigation, generally speaking you're just better off having the fungi equipped the entire time, so you don't miss those inactive benefits that add up to a lot over time, especially when youre healing is subpar. It's hard to find perfect group compositions these days where you have an enc/cleric keeping things running smoothly(they're usually off duoing together).

My analysis is indeed combat focused. OP is asking about Fungi vs Vindi while leveling. Mitigation matters more in xp groups, because good xp groups should be spending significantly more time in combat than solo players. If your xp group has similar downtime and kills per hour as a solo SK, it's probably not a very good xp group.

You can switch to Fungi between kills if your group is struggling with healing between kills. OP has Fungi and Vindi, so they don't need to pick between the two. At higher levels I prefer better mitigation in groups, due to damage spikes. When the druid is OOM the AC, HP, and Resists from Vindi would be more likely to save you in a single short encounter. Personally I often use my Velious Clickly BP out of combat if the healer is struggling, as it is twice as fast as a Fungi. It heals 360 HP/Minute. I don't always need to meditate.

[Troxx]

Aaaaaand ….. here we go again

#napkinmath

The real answer is that Fungi is simply always better for standard xp group content 99.9% of the time.

Vindi does win fashionquest hands down.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Aaaaaand ….. here we go again

#napkinmath

The real answer is that Fungi is simply always better for standard xp group content 99.9% of the time.

Vindi does win fashionquest hands down.

Troxx makes random claims with no evidence again. Hopefully he will explain himself.

The reality is damage spikes affect high level players, and are problematic. 30 HP from two ticks of Fungi will do nothing when you have taken 500 damage from a spell and 500 damage from multiple max hits within 12 seconds. Resists could reduce that 500 spell damage to zero, and AC could reduce 100+ damage from the max hits. I'll take -600 damage over -30 damage any day in a group with a healer.

When you have Vindi and Fungi, it's trivial to switch between the two as needed. Keeping Vindi bagged in high level groups is simply done out of laziness. It's not based on evidence showing Fungi is always better.

[Snaggles]

It’s EQ, there is a disclaimer for every situation. In general the less people and less healing power the more fungi’s and invig clicks help. Assuming people aren’t geared to the teeth.

Unless your low-man is a monk/warrior and ranger or something though I don’t think it’s a make or break situation.

The best part of having a fungi is altquesting with it. The best part of a Vindi Bp is having an excuse to do something else with the Fungi. Thats my own justification typically.

Also WB, DSM :)

[Duik]

Also anyone with both fungi and vindi bp should just experiment. Then they can save napkins for batwing crunchies with their Qeynos Afternoon Teas.

[Toxigen]

The only time I'm using Vindi BP over Fungi while leveling is with a cleric and a slower. Even in that perfect scenario, you're splitting hairs and more or less making your cleric feel better by casting a few more CHs.

Plain and simple.

Say OP is duo with a shaman, or trio with shaman and rogue/mage/whatever.

The shaman has to do a ton of work. Using a fungi will help immensely. Any scenario with no cleric present its fungi by 100 miles.

There is no amount of paper napkin math that is going to say otherwise, no need to complicate a game from 1999.

[Pint]

Basically you can wear fungi or read all that stuff dsm posted and still just wear fungi

[Toxigen]

Basically you can wear fungi or read all that stuff dsm posted and still just wear fungi

lmao 10/10

[Duik]

DSM = Don't Say Mage.

[PatChapp]

Vindi bp used to be so pretty
Now it's the worst fashion,even worse than a fungi

Unless your getting ch from a cleric with excess mana,or pulling in a zone with lots of casters(hole, seb) fungi gonna win out.

[Troxx]

Also anyone with both fungi and vindi bp should just experiment. Then they can save napkins for batwing crunchies with their Qeynos Afternoon Teas.

I have both.

Fungi is just better in groups. All the way up to 60. There really isn’t much of an exception. Dmg output is low enough that it offsets a good chunk of it flat out - a lot more than ac ever would. R This isn’t the type of situation that requires an exercise in calculus.

Raids? Vindi all the way.

[zelld52]

yikes

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Also WB, DSM :)

Thanks!

I have both.

I have both too.

The opposition has no evidence to back up their claims. This is always strange, because you can math out exactly how much HP you recover per hour and per minute with Fungi. It isn't complicated.

Use Vindi BP while tanking in groups at high levels, as it mitigates damage spikes better than Fungi. It is easy to understand that AC and Resists can reduce more than 150 damage within a one minute period in normal group content. It is easy to understand that you'll get 150+ HP for mitigation every time you go back to full HP via Vindi's max HP.

I've seen plenty of people wear Vindi over Fungi at high levels as well, I am not the only one.

If your group has problems with healing, switch to Fungi out of combat. Honestly though I can't remember being in a group where healing was so bad I needed my Fungi to increase kills per hour at high levels.

[Toxigen]

aaaaand here we go again

[Crede]

If your group has problems with healing, switch to Fungi out of combat. Honestly though I can't remember being in a group where healing was so bad I needed my Fungi to increase kills per hour at high levels.

It's probably because you mostly solo and haven't regularly grouped in years. I already provided an example from a few weeks ago where Fungi was critical in Sebilis. Also, I was recently in a hole group with a ranger/sk/monk. We had a druid but they logged pretty quickly so we were left with no healer, but because we all had a fungi we were able to cycle tank and keep kills going for a few more hours. This is not possible without a fungi.

I'm not sure where you think there are efficient groups all over the place, especially on Blue which averages around 250-300 people most days. There are very few clerics that actually want to group that aren't duoing with charm classes, I don't blame them either as group xp sucks. Sebilis is still no cakewalk, a druid/shaman will struggle to keep up heals sub 60 if you are killing fast and without an enc/bard for mana. I actually think a necro can probably heal more efficiently in those cases, but they are probably off soloing somewhere for better xp.

[Keebz]

Remember what we see as arguing is really just our neurodivergent child trying to make sense of the world.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's probably because you mostly solo and haven't regularly grouped in years. I already provided an example from a few weeks ago where Fungi was critical in Sebilis. Also, I was recently in a hole group with a ranger/sk/monk. We had a druid but they logged pretty quickly so we were left with no healer, but because we all had a fungi we were able to cycle tank and keep kills going for a few more hours. This is not possible without a fungi.

I'm not sure where you think there are efficient groups all over the place, especially on Blue which averages around 250-300 people most days. There are very few clerics that actually want to group that aren't duoing with charm classes, I don't blame them either as group xp sucks. Sebilis is still no cakewalk, a druid/shaman will struggle to keep up heals sub 60 if you are killing fast and without an enc/bard for mana. I actually think a necro can probably heal more efficiently in those cases, but they are probably off soloing somewhere for better xp.

Making assumptions about my grouping and soloing isn't an argument. You shared your experience, and I shared mine. You can certainly provide logs from the Sebilis group, and we can see how much the Fungi helped. In your hole example where you have no healers at all, Fungi does indeed help. But I am talking about groups with a healer where you are tanking.

If you mitigate more damage on average in combat with Vindi, and switch to fungi out of combat, you save more HP per hour, even in your example group. Your example group is in Sebilis. Sebilis has casters, which makes Vindi even better.

I am not sure why people have issues with switching to fungi if they need to.

[Toxigen]

jesus fucking christ DSM

[DeathsSilkyMist]

jesus fucking christ DSM

Nobody cares about silly posts like this. Acting like a child on the internet will not convince people you are correct. Please come back with something more than a "I am right and you are wrong" argument. You already have no credibility when people look at your signature. You'll need more than this.

[Troxx]

Remember what we see as arguing is really just our neurodivergent child trying to make sense of the world.

^

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You can tell Troxx and Toxigen have no ability to back up anything they say. This is why they resort to trolling and insults. It's sad. They will make basless claims and then spam threads until people give up. This is turning into another Troxx and friends thread sadly.

For OP and people interested in how the game works, please read my previous post: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3701686&postcount=17

[Toxigen]

well im off starting my weekend, c u boys monday at page 50

[Jimjam]

Idk about the topic on hand but my first toon here was an sk. I got him to 52 and he has remained there!

I was messing around in Crystal Caverns on a ranger and found a BE helm on a random merchant. Switched to my sk for a risky hammer out from seb Jugs and a quick drop transfer of the helm later I can proudly report my troll is wearing a full set of Blood Ember!


Sorry for the non-post but I just wanted to celebrate!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Idk about the topic on hand but my first toon here was an sk. I got him to 52 and he has remained there!

I was messing around in Crystal Caverns on a ranger and found a BE helm on a random merchant. Switched to my sk for a risky hammer out from seb Jugs and a quick drop transfer of the helm later I can proudly report my troll is wearing a full set of Blood Ember!


Sorry for the non-post but I just wanted to celebrate!

Congrats! Full blood ember looks great on a troll. I like how the red gets darker as you go from hat to boots. You'll get a lot of use out of the Boots, Gloves, Pants, and BP. Arms are good until 55. Helm is still nice as a junk buff if you need another junk buff.

[Jimjam]

Thank you! Ooh good tip! I hadn’t even worked out it is a click not worn ��

The real pita piece to get was the boots. I spent so much time in KC spawning and killing Knights of Sathir. The cast time is a bit high, but when it is worth it it is worth it.

Sathir is a follower of Innoruuk, not Thule. I still need to do more of that Knight damn mob on Red to get my innoruuk half elf war a runed blade.

Why are BE arms no good after 55?

[Danth]

Why are BE arms no good after 55?

That's when you get Shroud of Death, a much more effective version of the same type of spell. Pre-Velious (and hence, pre-Shroud) I used the arms quite often even at 60.

Shamwowi tends to be more enthusiastc than I am about some of the other BE pieces, but he solo'd a lot more than I did so that explains the difference. BP is nice for the click buff although you can get the same buff, cheaper, if you're willing to swap a Stave of Shielding for procs.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thank you! Ooh good tip! I hadn’t even worked out it is a click not worn ��

The real pita piece to get was the boots. I spent so much time in KC spawning and killing Knights of Sathir. The cast time is a bit high, but when it is worth it it is worth it.

Sathir is a follower of Innoruuk, not Thule. I still need to do more of that Knight damn mob on Red to get my innoruuk half elf war a runed blade.

Why are BE arms no good after 55?

For the arms, you get a better version of the spell at 55. https://wiki.project1999.com/Shroud_of_Death procs for 50 damage and lasts for 20 minutes. You could still use the arms if you want to save the 100 mana casting cost, but I think the extra damage from Shroud is worth the mana cost. Since the buff last 20 mimutes, the 100 mana cost really isn't much.

Yeah the boots are quite rare. I am glad I bought mine before green came out, when KC was generally fully camped. I still use the fear boots when I need to save mana and I have plenty of HP. In dungeons you want to use your shortest duration fear anyway, so they don't run too far into the dungeon and another group of mobs.
That's when you get Shroud of Death, a much more effective version of the same type of spell. Pre-Velious (and hence, pre-Shroud) I used the arms quite often even at 60.

Shamwowi tends to be more enthusiastc than I am about some of the other BE pieces, but he solo'd a lot more than I did so that explains the difference. BP is nice for the click buff although you can get the same buff, cheaper, if you're willing to swap a Stave of Shielding for procs.

Good to see you again Danth! Yeah I didn't really use the arms past 55 because I like the extra damage/tap from shroud, and I am always running low on bag space via clickies, resist gear, weapons, etc. BP is certainly more convenient than SoS, sometimes the proc can take a while. But SoS does save you a good chunk of plat!

[Crede]

Making assumptions about my grouping and soloing isn't an argument. You shared your experience, and I shared mine. You can certainly provide logs from the Sebilis group, and we can see how much the Fungi helped. In your hole example where you have no healers at all, Fungi does indeed help. But I am talking about groups with a healer where you are tanking.

If you mitigate more damage on average in combat with Vindi, and switch to fungi out of combat, you save more HP per hour, even in your example group. Your example group is in Sebilis. Sebilis has casters, which makes Vindi even better.

I am not sure why people have issues with switching to fungi if they need to.

You're weighing Vindi's BP benefit based on AC/Resists, both which have proven unreliable with current p99 code. It's entirely possible that the extra resists from the vindi bp had little to no impact on incoming spell damage for an entire grouping session.

So unless you can provide some logs of Vindi BP out mitigating a Fungi in a typical grouping situation, it's really the Fungi's fixed benefit vs the perceived benefit of the Vindi BP. There might be some edge case grouping scenarios where you might want a Vindi BP to help with the cheal such as a low man Faydedar, but as Troxx indicated 99.9% of the time fungi is the way to go in group situations as it can adapt as needed to all types of different group compositions, which the Vindi BP cannot.

It's really that simple.

[Snaggles]

I’m all Team Fungi, especially solo. I think some folks might be overselling it in the high levels though. The max hit from a geo is 146. That’s basically one minute of ticks.

As for SV’s, it’s extremely tough 0 check resist benefits even in HoT. We all know the difference between healing someone with horrible SV’s and solid ones, so they matter. While the odds are stacked against us on p99, MR is still gold no matter what. I’ll drink my snake oil all day if it means resisting even an occasional dragon fear.

Hps, AoB, svs, passable AC. I mean…it’s not a ridiculous premise to just wear it when someone healing you. You can write them an IOU for 1/3rd of a chloroblast every minute.

[Troxx]

Regarding grouping, the best thing about getting a Vindi BP when you were otherwise using a fungi is that it lets you rationalize moving your fungi to a lower level melee alt :)

Raiding? (And I include low man “grouping” raid targets in this category) - that’s a completely different monster.

For groups, mob dps is just not significant. In most places 52-60 people will be grouping, mob dps is going to be LOW (like 10-15 dps or less on a properly geared tank). It will be low enough that the extra 13 hp per tick will offset 15-20% of incomming damage during active fights.

Pretend you’re in a group and you had to pick between a buff that gave you 13hp/tick regen that stacks with all other regen …. Or a buff that gave you 10 attack, some resists, 150hp and a handful of ac. Which buff would most people prefer for longevity and ease for a prolonged xp session vs low dps mobs?

I bet most would take 13 extra regen. Vindi is a good bp, but fungi is laughably OP for group content in this era.

[Snaggles]

Presuming the SVs and AC have no effect, or an inconsequential amount where the extra 130hps is very noticeable?

This is on the tank right? Not the rando DPS backing up into rooted mobs? Lol. I’ve leveled four melees to 60 solo and grouping sounds difficult.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're weighing Vindi's BP benefit based on AC/Resists, both which have proven unreliable with current p99 code. It's entirely possible that the extra resists from the vindi bp had little to no impact on incoming spell damage for an entire grouping session.

It's also possible you are getting healed enough to where Fungi Tunic Regeneration would never have saved your life or increased the kills per hour in your group. At that point Fungi Tunic literally did nothing the entire session. I am not sure why that hypothetical helps your argument, as it applies equally to Fungi Tunic.

Damage spikes from melee and spells are generally more dangerous at high levels, which is why you want to mitigate them as much as possible. Fungi Tunic isn't regenerating fast enough to counter damage spikes at high levels. You are usually getting hit often when tanking in a group. You may also be pulling as an SK. Wear Vindi during combat to reduce damage spikes, and wear fungi out of combat as needed. It's quite simple.

I think some folks might be overselling it in the high levels though. The max hit from a geo is 146. That’s basically one minute of ticks.

As for SV’s, it’s extremely tough 0 check resist benefits even in HoT. We all know the difference between healing someone with horrible SV’s and solid ones, so they matter. While the odds are stacked against us on p99, MR is still gold no matter what. I’ll drink my snake oil all day if it means resisting even an occasional dragon fear.

Hps, AoB, svs, passable AC. I mean…it’s not a ridiculous premise to just wear it when someone healing you. You can write them an IOU for 1/3rd of a chloroblast every minute.

Agreed!

I’m all Team Fungi, especially solo.

Agreed. Fungi is generally better at all levels when soloing, as SK's will be fear kiting rather than face tanking. It's still nice to have Vindi for resists when doing things like pulling in areas with casters.

[zelld52]

This thread got Yikes really early on but how is this a question. +15 HP per tick or +2 HP per tick which is better guys??!

[Duik]

This thread got Yikes really early on but how is this a question. +15 HP per tick or +2 HP per tick which is better guys??!

I think they are saying adding xtra AC and sv mitigate *some* incoming damage so its not just AoB vs fungal regrowth. Depending on mob atk and usefulness of saves this will vary.

If you have both just swap out and stop whining. Lots of casters? Vindi. Melee mobs? Prolly gonna be fungi.
This discussion only affects those considering which one to choose, assuming they can afford only one.

[Snaggles]

Fungi is also -10 dex and -10 agi.
Debate curve ball! :eek:

Kidding aside what low-man group only has a Druid? Don’t they all just solo to 60?

[shovelquest]

Kidding aside what low-man group only has a Druid? Don’t they all just solo to 60?

there's a window somewhere between teens and 30 that druid SUUUUUCKS someone tell me if im wrong or plz confirm what levels they are. But iirc there is a window that sucks so bad.

enchanter teens sucks too prove me wrong.

charm killing things at level 12 is not as efficient as clearing befallen with a good wep some HP rings and a fungi.

[Duik]

Wearing a fungi at lvl 12 is like being PLed with permanent chloro.
Also who has a fungi on a lvl12?
Oh right, the 5+yrs of repeated boredom of a time locked Classic+Kunark+Velious server creates the (over equiped) altaholic syndrome.
Even 6/65 rings are OP in that lvl range.

[Toxigen]

Also who has a fungi on a lvl12?


literally everyone still playing p99 in 2024 (lol)

[Snaggles]

Anyone with a Vindi has a Fungi or can have a Fungi, so much of this is moot. The real crime is having both in your 30’s and not knowing what to wear and when.

If it sounds like I’m cranky, perhaps just one too many “what do do with my manastone/velks robe/ranger cloak?” threads.

[Toxigen]

Anyone with a Vindi has a Fungi or can have a Fungi, so much of this is moot. The real crime is having both in your 30’s and not knowing what to wear and when.

If it sounds like I’m cranky, perhaps just one too many “what do do with my manastone/velks robe/ranger cloak?” threads.

bloated state of the game, ole buddy boy

thats what my original yikes post was about lol

[Snaggles]

bloated state of the game, ole buddy boy

thats what my original yikes post was about lol

It was a fair application of yikes :)

[Jimjam]

Should my lvl 52 sk wear his HoT or BE? Wrong answers only plz.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Should my lvl 52 sk wear his HoT or BE? Wrong answers only plz.

Neither. Your poor troll cannot scratch his butt with all that armor on. Being naked is the real answer.

[Jimjam]

Fuck. Thats a good answer.

[zelld52]

Anyone with a Vindi has a Fungi or can have a Fungi, so much of this is moot. The real crime is having both in your 30’s and not knowing what to wear and when.

If it sounds like I’m cranky, perhaps just one too many “what do do with my manastone/velks robe/ranger cloak?” threads.

ayup

[Knuckle]

Anyone with a Vindi has a Fungi or can have a Fungi, so much of this is moot. The real crime is having both in your 30’s and not knowing what to wear and when.

If it sounds like I’m cranky, perhaps just one too many “what do do with my manastone/velks robe/ranger cloak?” threads.

I mean a Fungi Tunic enables you to have just about any toon in their 30s borderline *instantly*. I went from 10-25 in like 5hrs in warrens over the xp bonus weekend. Now hes 45. It's not always easy to know if the ac + aura of battle would pay off. I feel like AC is one of those stats that is hard to feel, also with the fact that vindi dies 3x a day its an interesting breastplate, if its only benefit is to swap in for resists so be it, +15 sv all is nice.

[Jimjam]

I mean a Fungi Tunic enables you to have just about any toon in their 30s borderline *instantly*. I went from 10-25 in like 5hrs in warrens over the xp bonus weekend. Now hes 45. It's not always easy to know if the ac + aura of battle would pay off. I feel like AC is one of those stats that is hard to feel, also with the fact that vindi dies 3x a day its an interesting breastplate, if its only benefit is to swap in for resists so be it, +15 sv all is nice.

It’s definitely in the top 2 breastplates in terms of accessibility, impact and generalisability.

[Knuckle]

It’s definitely in the top 2 breastplates in terms of accessibility, impact and generalisability.

:confused:

[Duik]

Perfectly cromulent.