Is it better to use low level slows?

[Wakanda]

Serious question. I played Enchanter a lot on TLP and the meta over there wasn’t to use your high level slow, but to use lower level ones because they were more efficient? Is it the same way on P99? Weird question to ask, but I solod my whole career but am finally starting to consider grouping and am curious if I should start using my best slows while in groups or just stick to using tepid deeds :D

Also is Tashania considered good on p99? On TLP I learned after I did the whole quest that most people consider it not worth the extra mana for the little diff it makes?

I know these prob seem like dumb questions but I’m being serious. Playing on TLP messed me up.

[PatChapp]

Depends what your doing.
If your grinding low blue mobs,tepid deeds is fine. If your pulling a tough named the best slow you have is the way to go. Always use the best tash you have,especially for charm pets

[Snaggles]

IMHO I would communicate with the main healer as to how their mana is doing on average. Unless you have to tackle a lot of npc’s in a short amount of time clerics can keep up with quite a bit of healing with clarity.

If you are reliant on say a Druid healer, or you get a nasty combo of quantity & intensity, I would up-rank the slow if you can spare the mana.

[zelld52]

I solod (facetanked with 2hb) and I used level 5 Drowsy until I got Turgur's at level 51.

Drowsy is 25% guaranteed reduction in damage output and only costs 20 mana. It was very helpful to keep downtime between fights short or nonexistent while levelling. It also has half the cast time of the other shaman slows between level 5-51. By level 51 I couldn't face tank reliably unless it had a nice big slow on it. In groups I still used Drowsy primarily.

As an enchanter, I didn't use slow unless I was in a group without it - or at level 60 when I started keeping my pet for multiple fights. In groups, I used the lowest level slow. Stuff dies quickly enough, and it's just the most efficient.

At 60, in plat farms etc? I always use the latest, greatest slow.

[Jimjam]

If you’re using DS you’ll want to find the sweet spot of minimising damage vs maximising hits from ds.

In groups with fast kills you’ll want to consider the number of hits slow is really stopping. Do you need to use your best slow against every green con level 39 cleric?

[A1551]

Definitely use your best tash. The mana cost difference is i believe 10 mana. Perhaps it costs more on TLPs?

You got answers above but ill add i agree often downranking slows CAN be a good idea. Really depends on the circumstance.

[Kawhi]

IMHO I would communicate with the main healer as to how their mana is doing on average. Unless you have to tackle a lot of npc’s in a short amount of time clerics can keep up with quite a bit of healing with clarity.

If you are reliant on say a Druid healer, or you get a nasty combo of quantity & intensity, I would up-rank the slow if you can spare the mana.


This is the answer.

Basically your slow is preventing damage that the healer then doesn't have to heal. If their mana is good, then you can use weaker slows or maybe no slows at all. If they start to get low mana and you have plenty of mana then you can help the healer out some by throwing in some bigger slows. So be in communication with the healer and try to balance out each other's mana bars.

[Zuranthium]

Tepid Deeds should be used most of the time for general grouping. It casts much faster and is more mana efficient than your higher level slow spells. I find it annoying how that spell is more mana efficient than the Shaman 50% slow, Tagar's Insects, when Shaman are supposed to be the best at slowing.

[enjchanter]

I only cast forlorn when I'm soloing and I'm actively trying to extend my pets life. Outside of that there's basically no reason not to use tepid

Cheaper, faster cast

[Snaggles]

I find it annoying how that spell is more mana efficient than the Shaman 50% slow, Tagar's Insects, when Shaman are supposed to be the best at slowing.

On a list of complaints playing the shaman class mana efficiency for downranked slows isn’t one of them.

[shovelquest]

Tepid Deeds should be used most of the time for general grouping. It casts much faster and is more mana efficient than your higher level slow spells. I find it annoying how that spell is more mana efficient than the Shaman 50% slow, Tagar's Insects, when Shaman are supposed to be the best at slowing.

To be fair, nothing makes an enchanter feel smaller than when the shaman AOE slows the bad pull.

[fortior]

you mean after they mez it?

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

I’d always use a downgraded rank of slow due to better mana efficiency, never even bought forlorn deeds by 59…

[Goregasmic]

I’d always use a downgraded rank of slow due to better mana efficiency, never even bought forlorn deeds by 59…

Compared to shiftless, forlorn is +25mana for an extra 5% slow. The biggest question is do you want to spend 7kpp on that.

To answer OP; tepid deeps unless you're fighting nasty stuff, healer is struggling or your pet will not otherwise survive the fight. You'll get a feel for it.

[Ruien]

Compared to shiftless, forlorn is +25mana for an extra 5% slow. The biggest question is do you want to spend 7kpp on that.

To answer OP; tepid deeps unless you're fighting nasty stuff, healer is struggling or your pet will not otherwise survive the fight. You'll get a feel for it.

That extra 5% slow represents an additional 16.7% increase in effectiveness, for 25 mana, so yes- between Shiftless and Forlorn, you use Forlorn. But I only use it on named mobs, on raids, or when pet health is too low. Most of the time I am using Tepid Deeds instead.

When leveling (solo), the answer is different still - you choose your slow based on the situation, estimating the right slow to use such that both pet and mob end up almost dead when the fight is over.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Here's how I look at it from a Shaman's perspective while leveling (not killing named mobs). You can change the healing spell if you have a different healer (like a Cleric) instead of a Shaman as the main healer:

Shaman Level 29
===============

27% slow for 60 mana (Walking Sleep)
34% slow for 120 mana (Tagar's Insects)
300 HP for 150 mana (Greater Healing)

10 DPS mob 1 minute fight = 600 damage

600 x 0.73 = 438 damage

600 x 0.66 = 396 damage

42 HP for 60 Mana = 0.7 HP to Mana, which is less than 2.0 HP to Mana (Greater Healing)

Shaman Level 49
===============

32% slow for 60 mana (Walking Sleep)
59% slow for 175 mana (Togor's Insects)
300 HP for 150 mana (Greater Healing)

25 DPS mob 1 minute fight = 1500 damage

1500 x 0.68 = 1020 damage

1500 x 0.41 = 615 damage

405 HP for 115 Mana = 3.5 HP to Mana which is greater than 2.0 HP to Mana (Greater Healing)

These DPS and kill time examples are rough estimates, not guaranteed numbers for mobs in these level ranges. You'll need to figure out the average DPS and kill times of the mobs you are facing to get an accurate understanding of what is more efficient.

At level 29, you can see that casting your lower level slow and occasionally healing will be more mana efficient. At level 49, using your highest level slow will yield more HP to Mana than your best heal, making it more mana efficient.

If you have a Cleric as the main healer at level 49, the mana efficiency of their heal is at least 3.2 HP to Mana (Celestial Healing). It can be higher with Complete Heal, depending on the HP pool of the target being healed. This means using your low level slow to save mana is going to be fine, as using the higher level slow is basically the same HP to Mana ratio as your group's best heal. This assumes the Cleric isn't having mana problems. If they are, then you may need to use the better slow.

When fighting named mobs, you generally just want to use your best slow to ensure you get the kill.

[Goregasmic]

That extra 5% slow represents an additional 16.7% increase in effectiveness, for 25 mana, so yes- between Shiftless and Forlorn, you use Forlorn. But I only use it on named mobs, on raids, or when pet health is too low. Most of the time I am using Tepid Deeds instead.

Forlorn is clearly better but when you still dont have bedlam/dictate/vog I feel like for forlorn can wait.

When leveling (solo), the answer is different still - you choose your slow based on the situation, estimating the right slow to use such that both pet and mob end up almost dead when the fight is over.

For double charm kills tepid usually does it. The trick is timing it right. It is by far my most used slow but i still bust out shiftless (no forlorn yet) often in more niche situations that either warrants/permits it.

[Troxx]

Until I had torpor at 60 I only ever used Turgurs on long fights.

~95% of the time Tagars
~4% of the time Togors (heavy hitters)
~1% of the time Turgurs (heavy hitters with a longer expected fight time)

The mana savings very much add up over time.

After torpor, the only slow I use other than Turgurs is aoe slow situationally.

Extrapolated to enchanters, yeah I’d say use the lower level more efficient slow for most all content unless you absolutely need the higher level one.

[Toxigen]

Until I had torpor at 60 I only ever used Turgurs on long fights.

~95% of the time Tagars
~4% of the time Togors (heavy hitters)
~1% of the time Turgurs (heavy hitters with a longer expected fight time)

The mana savings very much add up over time.

After torpor, the only slow I use other than Turgurs is aoe slow situationally.

Extrapolated to enchanters, yeah I’d say use the lower level more efficient slow for most all content unless you absolutely need the higher level one.

make sure to max rank slow your pets too while DSM multi dots