Shadowknight vs Paladin

[Revanx22]

Which one is better for solo, duo, grouping, and raiding? It would be more casual raiding, just a couple times a week. I don't care about getting absolute BiS, but I would like to eventually get the epic.

I think I prefer the theme of shadowknight, and I really like the idea of having feign death on my tank, but fear kiting sounds like it could get old when I can't find a group and need to solo. I also have seen people say that shadowknights usually don't get brought to raids, which is another negative. Also, I only have about 15k for gear, which might be another negative for sk due to the cost of the circlet of shadows.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[Troxx]

Globally? Paladin and it isn’t even close.

SK has 2 hat tricks:

-FD does add value and could be considered necessary for a small range of content/targets. Only really applicable solo though as 2 other classes can do this and this is a cooperative game (m-M-rpg).
-fear kiting: boring and annoying way of soloing or small group xping without a healer. I’d rather poke my eyes out than routinely do this.


So yeah - paladin and it isn’t even close.

[Toxigen]

Solo: if not super twinked, SK due to fear kiting efficiency. You need a lot of stuff to make Paladin a solo powerhouse (narandi crown, fungi, deepwater BP, big CHA set, bags and bags of 10 dose Kilva's, etc). If a pull goes bad for paladin its root n scoot and hope you make it out. SK just FDs and its k.

Duo: about the same really, with 1 exception. Paladin actually duos very well with enchanter but its a different playstyle (you're the support).

Grouping: equal, you stand in camp and hold aggro...slight edge to paladin for sub-optimal groups I guess.

Raiding: paladin hands down because Soulfire can save raids and DS is a great buff.

I prefer paladin all the way. I had a blast leveling mine (but was mega twinked). If you love the SK aesthetic then do yo thang.

[PatChapp]

Sk's are a abandon-me-at60 class,paladins tend to see more play if your into the boring 60 scene

[Jimjam]

I prefer to play SK, but no one ever said at a raid “I sUrE wIsH wE hAd A sHaDoWkNiGhT“.

The only problem with Paladin is sometimes I ask them for “Brell’s” and that outs me as a post classic raid enthusiast.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

In solo scenarios, SK is better for any content that can be fear kited. Fear kiting and FD work wonders as Toxigen points out.

In groups they are basically equal when it comes to tanking and agro. Paladins give you extra heals, SKs can pull via FD. It depends on your group as to which one is better for the specific scenario.

Paladins are better for raiding and some solo challenge content due to heals being unresistable.

My general rule of thumb is pick Shadowknight if you mostly group/solo. Pick Paladin if you want to use your character for raiding.

[Keebz]

SK and Paladin can both be group tanks, but other than that play pretty differently. Having played both, here's my thoughts.

For soloing, they can both face tank, but when shit gets tough, the SK starts a fear kite, whereas the paladin roots and backs up. For pulling, the SK can snare + FD to get things solo, whereas the Paladin swaps to CHA gear and starts lulling. For getting around dungeons, the SK can invis and sprint through and FD somewhere if they get aggro. The paladin starts lulling and slowly checks for for see invis as they move through. SKs also deal significantly damage than paladins, esp. if you max level your pet.

For duoing, SK functions a lot like a monk but with some utility. You're pulling, tanking, ad DPSing, etc. For paladin, you can play this role, albeit with less dps, but you can also play support for a pet class, swapping between being the meat stick and being the healer.

For raiding, I take my SK to a few events (planes namely) where your ability to run around and infinitely tag things is useful. I also occasionally do train-outs with the pet and tank 32k mobs. I should note, these are slightly more nuanced and active roles that take some experience. Paladin on the other hand plays more as a support for the big tank and spank velious encounters. You cast DS on the tanks and watch their health and soul fire (CH clicky) them when needed. Both classes can tank some of the lower end targets and both make OK ramp tanks, but paladins are better here. Both will occasionally be asked to swap to characters.

SK can play pretty fluid, fast and loose, while Paladin more meticulous, thoughtful.

[Danth]

Already got good answers in this thread. I'll chime in too, as a player of both classes, largely in agreement with the above:

Either class can solo if necessary; neither is a solo powerhouse. SK has an advantage due to easier travel and better resistance to casters "accidentally" training the solo melee out of desired camps.

Duo, it depends on who you're duo'ing with. I duo'd on my shadowknight a great deal with my wife's shaman (for many years at 60, an exception to PatChapp's comment) and was well satisfied with it. I like the paladin better if I'm with something like a druid or enchanter.

Full groups I prefer the paladin's toolbox except when feign splitting is needed. Most groups wanting experience don't feign split because it slows stuff down. Aggro rebalance patch hurt SK aggro mana efficiency so paladin holds up easier when an enchanter/bard isn't present.

Raids, if you want to be a core raid participant, why are you picking a hybrid? Paladin has more advantage here but it's a hollow victory: Farming soulfires gets old fast and hybrids are simply not in the top tier of raid desirability in this environment.

In general I feel the SK was particularly hurt by the aggro rebalance patch a couple years back. It stood out from monk (a stronger/faster class overall) mostly due to on-demand aggro and that patch kind of trivialized aggro in general. Paladin's probably a safer bet on 2024 P99 unless you know you really want to make a shadowknight, and if you do you don't need to ask on an internet forum.

[sajbert]

SK needs Circlet of Shadows and arguably Holgresh Elder Beads. Epic is harder. The good races come with XP penalty. Useless in raids, more or less anyway.

Paladin has no FD or pet tracking but CAN self res and pacify (at least if you put some points into charisma which I totally would).

Both can solo OK.

IMO the Paladin is the clear winner.

[Troxx]

Across the board paladin is just the superior knight. The exceptions are where FD and fear kiting fundamentally change how you might approach the encounter. Typically this is seen solo but admittedly can play minor/major roles on raids or very specific camps like Fungi. If you’re rocking a trio at Fungi without a monk, the SK makes it possible where bringing a paladin would make it not feasible.

Paladin toolkit is really just hard to beat. Both hold aggro exceptionally well. Heals (not taps) for self others, stuns, lulls, roots, rez, heal over times, buffs … it’s just a great class.

Solo? Deepwater clicks are a game changer. Prior to that it can be painful if not really twinked out due to low dps. SKs are gonna do it better.

[Balimon]

Paladin is a really underrated class, the content that a well geared paladin can solo is kind of shocking to be honest. I've heard SK's can do some similar things but haven't seen or experienced that. If you're interested in doing anything solo at 60 I think paladin is a better choice; pacify, rez, and baby torpor are pretty dang strong on a melee character.

I think 1-50 they exp solo about the same, however post 50 with DW bp the paladin is going to pull way ahead. Soloing to 60 on my paladin was way easier then I thought, the highest SK I have is 52 and its sloggish fear kiting at that point. That's how it felt to me. YMMV.

Both can be strong raiders, but again paladin has the edge with healing abilities. I think if SK's geared more for pulling they would be utilized more, raids always need good pullers. SK's can tank just as well there's no real difference there. I think knights are kind of two sides of the same coin, you can't really go wrong.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

One thing I did forget to mention is SK's are better at blind kiting if you want to take that route for solo challenge content. You can use bio orb for blind and blood ember gauntlets for snare, resulting in endless blind kiting. You can use the SK pet to stop the mob from running when needed too. Use a bow and DoTs to slowly whittle the mob down. Works for mobs that summon and can't be feared.

Bio orb is clickable from inventory, so you can still use a weighted axe for the damage bonus if you are a troll/ogre.

[Snaggles]

The SK is more dynamic.
The paladin is more practical.

Turns out a practical spell book is rather boring but I’d rather have a bunch of stuns, buffs, and heals than a few extra DoT’s you won’t cast outside a few times, ever. This also assuming you never quest the soulfire which is an afternoon for 5 magic clicks.

Really though they fill the same need. Go with what you think you will want at the end or seems more fun.

[Zuranthium]

If you're interested in doing anything solo at 60 I think paladin is a better choice; pacify, rez, and baby torpor are pretty dang strong on a melee character.

Heavily disagree. Rez? Almost meaningless solo at 60, it's not like you should need the exp. Corpse summon of the SK is more useful, so you can actually retrieve your corpse if needed. Pacify is not as good as Feign Death on the whole. Paladin healing is not nearly as powerful as SK fear kiting for any content where that works.

On top of that, SK does considerably more DPS thanks to their pet (and some other offensive spells also help a bit). This is also why I more often prefer SK in a typical group. Paladin toolkit is often whatever, the party already has things under control. It just becomes about trying to grind through as much content as possible. DPS wins.

Neither class is needed for raiding. The best feature of the Paladin is probably that it duos better with Enchanters.

[Keebz]

Paladin healing is not nearly as powerful as SK fear kiting for any content where that works.

Unfortunately, most content you can fear kite isn't particularly interesting.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Unfortunately, most content you can fear kite isn't particularly interesting.

Same with most content a Paladin can solo. Knights aren't going to be doing high end solo Enchanter camps, and most players who play Knights know this.

Stuns and fear work on mobs up to level 55. This means both classes lose utility on more "interesting" content.

For 56+ mobs, Paladins can face tank better than SK's, and SK's can blind kite better than Paladins.

[Keebz]

blind kite

lol

[Balimon]

Heavily disagree. Rez? Almost meaningless solo at 60, it's not like you should need the exp. Corpse summon of the SK is more useful, so you can actually retrieve your corpse if needed. Pacify is not as good as Feign Death on the whole. Paladin healing is not nearly as powerful as SK fear kiting for any content where that works.

On top of that, SK does considerably more DPS thanks to their pet (and some other offensive spells also help a bit). This is also why I more often prefer SK in a typical group. Paladin toolkit is often whatever, the party already has things under control. It just becomes about trying to grind through as much content as possible. DPS wins.

Neither class is needed for raiding. The best feature of the Paladin is probably that it duos better with Enchanters.

Yes, even Rez is a huge piece of the toolkit. Learning the difficult solo stuff has a learning curve, that comes with deaths, unless you play 24/7 no one can afford to eat more than a couple deaths. Having rez gives you the freedom to experiment and take risks, and when things go south and you can't cap or zone out or whatever, you can even CR yourself. Anyone can retrieve their corpse with: https://wiki.project1999.com/Crypt_Master%27s_Conjuring_Stone. That's not any kind of real advantage other than not needing to buy a 500p item in EC?

Feign death is better in a lot of situations compared to pacify for sure, FD snare splitting is also pretty rad. I also know there's some camps where you absolutely need paci to do, especially in Chardok. I'd be happy to be wrong about SK solo artist power vs. paladin, from everything I've seen though pally has the edge. /shrug

[Zuranthium]

lol

Blind kiting is a legit tactic. But it's also stupid that Bio Orb exists as an item usable by anyone, ugh.

Yes, even Rez is a huge piece of the toolkit. Learning the difficult solo stuff has a learning curve, that comes with deaths, unless you play 24/7 no one can afford to eat more than a couple deaths. Having rez gives you the freedom to experiment and take risks

Or you can just Feign Death as an SK and not die and not have to trek back to where you're trying to fight.

Anyone can retrieve their corpse with: https://wiki.project1999.com/Crypt_Master%27s_Conjuring_Stone. That's not any kind of real advantage other than not needing to buy a 500p item in EC?

Won't always be someone selling one when you need it and that's still extra time required every death of needing to get ports and run back and forth.

[Snaggles]

Heavily disagree. Rez? Almost meaningless solo at 60, it's not like you should need the exp. Corpse summon of the SK is more useful, so you can actually retrieve your corpse if needed. Pacify is not as good as Feign Death on the whole. Paladin healing is not nearly as powerful as SK fear kiting for any content where that works.

Oh yea. Everyone has a 180p bag slot coffin in the bank and doesn’t care about a 90% rez.

[Rygar]

But what if they ever fix worn regen stacking to +35 regen/tick + racial/innate?

I don't even know what is all out there for an SK. Zland heart (lol), Fungi, Belt of the Great Turtle, Spirit Wracked Cords... not sure what else can be worn to stack that is reasonably obtainable (obviously not Doze stuff). May be an interesting thought experiment to see how bad down time could be, or even switch zland heart with 2h weapon between delay to gain extra tick of regen.

A group of 6 tho... hmmm... I would go 6 SKs, just sounds so fun. I'd love to see them all just HT a touch named and have them all hit. Curious what weapons everyone can carry to add utility and feed their pets gnoll hide lariats or whatever SKs give away

[Snaggles]

For most people it’s turtle/dwarf belt, SWC, and Vindi BP or a fungi. Also ring 10 or Fesh BP.

Sk pets will likely 8-13 levels lower than the stuff the SK’s are fighting so even if stunnable those procs likely won’t land. The odds will be lower than HT which says a lot.

[Ripqozko]

We play on an infinite time locked server, play both. We are 9 years deep into velious, the server has been dead for 8 years after we woke the sleeper. Play everything you want no one cares anymore.

[Philistine]

Which one is better for solo, duo, grouping, and raiding? It would be more casual raiding, just a couple times a week. I don't care about getting absolute BiS, but I would like to eventually get the epic.

I think I prefer the theme of shadowknight, and I really like the idea of having feign death on my tank, but fear kiting sounds like it could get old when I can't find a group and need to solo. I also have seen people say that shadowknights usually don't get brought to raids, which is another negative. Also, I only have about 15k for gear, which might be another negative for sk due to the cost of the circlet of shadows.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Folks have things pretty well covered, but thought I'd chime in that SKs definitely get brought to raids in some guilds. Are SKs more likely than say, a rogue or a cleric, to get asked to swap to a bot sometimes when guilds are hurting to cover the basic needs of a raid? Sure. But that shouldn't be an everyday/kill thing so I personally wouldn't sweat it.

[Zuranthium]

We play on an infinite time locked server, play both. Play everything you want no one cares anymore.

People have limited time in life. Most want to do other things than play p99. It already requires a massive time investment to get to 60 on a single character and obtain the best items for them.

[Snaggles]

You can raid with a knight but outside the occasional trash tanking they have little to offer if strictly DPS’ing.

I would suggest anyone actively raiding a knight try a bit harder to trash tank whenever possible and if casual make sure you at least have a bag full of STR gear and at least a Reaver. If you want to feel valued don’t get beat by a necro pet on the parse.

[Ripqozko]

People have limited time in life. Most want to do other things than play p99. It already requires a massive time investment to get to 60 on a single character and obtain the best items for them.

not really, it takes very little time, im like 2/3rd bis with my wizard with some sprinkle of bis and it was created just like half a year ago, and i only exp on sundays. im sorry if you are bad or play red, but on blue it really doesnt take long in riot.

[Revanx22]

Paladin sounds like it might be a good fit then, but what's the deal with soulfire? I guess you're expected to keep farming fresh ones? Seems like a lot of extra time for someone like myself with limited gaming time.

[Ripqozko]

Paladin sounds like it might be a good fit then, but what's the deal with soulfire? I guess you're expected to keep farming fresh ones? Seems like a lot of extra time for someone like myself with limited gaming time.

not really, at least on blue in riot people will MQ for you because they get 20dkp per soulfire they do for the guild. you will have people lining up to do it.

[Duik]

I know its OT but what does 20k dkp get ya? Like do that 5 times for a bis or 25 times.

Edit. Knight item helm or 2hs or ...

[Zuranthium]

not really, it takes very little time, im like 2/3rd bis with my wizard with some sprinkle of bis and it was created just like half a year ago, and i only exp on sundays. im sorry if you are bad or play red, but on blue it really doesnt take long in riot.

It takes less time to level on red server, fool. Not everyone wants to just PL though or has the ability to do so. And you talk like anyone can just join a server and get everything for free. That is not the case.

EQ is a big time commitment. "Only exp on Sundays" :rolleyes: , for a long session probably, and while doing other stuff in the game most other days of the week I'm sure. Not to mention playing these large amounts of hours for years. That's not "little time".

[Ripqozko]

It takes less time to level on red server, fool. Not everyone wants to just PL though or has the ability to do so. And you talk like anyone can just join a server and get everything for free. That is not the case.

EQ is a big time commitment. "Only exp on Sundays" :rolleyes: , for a long session probably, and while doing other stuff in the game most other days of the week I'm sure. Not to mention playing these large amounts of hours for years. That's not "little time".

its a little time, sorry you play on a dead server

[Dundrige]

Can Shadowknights Yaulp?

I thought so. Check. Mate.

[Snaggles]

Blue is pretty far along at this point. Even people in casual guilds are running around with lots of NTOV loot, some are painfully noobish.

Im a casual player. The toons and gear I have is based on overall years spent. It’s not a race. But…if I was racing for great gear I’d pick a knight. It’s a discount sale for two classes and nobody else comes close.

[Zuranthium]

its a little time

No it isn't, stop lying. It's a mathematical certainty even, the minimum amount of hours that it takes to get 60 if not being PLed. Then there's everything else on top of it. EQ takes a lot of time. The only way it doesn't is when a ton of time has already been put into the game, and even then there's still unavoidable timesinks.

sorry you play on a dead server

Has nothing to do with "dead server". Lower population is a benefit for a guild to begin with. And, again, leveling is faster on Red. Sorry you've wasted your time on a slower server that has no extra fun things happening, since it's a static 25 year old game that's long been broken.

[Ripqozko]

No it isn't, stop lying. It's a mathematical certainty even, the minimum amount of hours that it takes to get 60 if not being PLed. Then there's everything else on top of it. EQ takes a lot of time. The only way it doesn't is when a ton of time has already been put into the game, and even then there's still unavoidable timesinks.



Has nothing to do with "dead server". Lower population is a benefit for a guild to begin with. And, again, leveling is faster on Red. Sorry you've wasted your time on a slower server that has no extra fun things happening, since it's a static 25 year old game that's long been broken.

Sorry you got dead server

[sajbert]

Park a rogue alt and /consent and drag your corpse, or can try to paci your way back. Or yeah, bank a summon corpse-stone. Rez is definitely great to have.

[busted]

Can Shadowknights Yaulp?

I thought so. Check. Mate.

Yes they can https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_War

Checkmate to your check mate.

[Swish]

Chess sucks and so do paladins.

[Revanx22]

I wanted to thank everyone for all the help! The consensus seemed to be paladin have the edge, but I opted for a shadowknight. I didn't realize their pets were actually halfway decent, and I think having feign death would be handy. I've got a 58 shaman but I still consider myself a noob, as I only really know the main leveling zones that everyone goes to. Being able to explore dungeons and zones with feign death and both invisibility spells sounds really fun.

[Rimitto]

always wanted to try shadowknight.
They're the second best tanks in the game, and I will fight anyone to the green server restart that disagrees with that.

Enjoy it, I've got a paladin myself and it's super fun to play as, but clearly a different playstyle than shadowknights.

[Duik]

How much spare time does your scripter allow for playing eq?
All sorts of moral and ethical questions will be posed in our new reality, like when does a chatbot get to use it's gleaned knowledge to hone it's skillz in (in this case) everquest?
Imagine you just being used to learn stuff and your scripters other bot gets to use it. Im feeling sorry for you.
Digital pimping is a thing.

[Snaggles]

I wanted to thank everyone for all the help! The consensus seemed to be paladin have the edge, but I opted for a shadowknight. I didn't realize their pets were actually halfway decent, and I think having feign death would be handy. I've got a 58 shaman but I still consider myself a noob, as I only really know the main leveling zones that everyone goes to. Being able to explore dungeons and zones with feign death and both invisibility spells sounds really fun.

You will have a lot of fun! Even with a nerfed Circlet of Shadows you can invis at 20 vs the cast spell at 30. Overall a great class and having a tank is very handy :)