Is iksar Necro a must?

[Ragathiel23]

So i played back in 99 and i had both iksar and darkelf. I know the regen and ac were AMAZING but i just love the look and feel of dark elf. Is the iksar passive that huge and game breaking to the point i should stick to iksar? Im just not wanting to be an animalistic necro lol. I want good visuals BUT i want to have good race choice as well and dont want to make the worst necro possible.

[Nycon43]

Iksar necro is the best choice hands down. That said you should just play what you want; it's your character. No point investing many hours into a character that you just hate looking at. It's not like non-iksar necros can't do camps iksar necros can or anything like that.

[Tnair]

Yes. If you choose another race, you will be softlocked from progressing and cannot finish the gamez The necro 51-60 spells are actually all IKS only. Also, when you try to summon a pet past level 40 as a human or erudite, the pet just laughs at you, makes fun of you for being a loser, and despawns.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

From a leveling perspective Necro is a strong class regardless of race.

End-game a non Iksar is more expensive to gear. An Iksar only needs a ZHeart for positive sitting HP regen with Arch Lich. A Dark Elf would need ZHeart + Ring 10.

An Iksar can also get positive HP regen with Demi Lich using ZHeart + Ring 10 while sitting. A Dark Elf cannot get positive HP regen on Demi Lich with self gear.

So you just need to decide if fashion or end-game is more important to you.

[caveslug]

The Iks regen isn't that noticeable until level 51+ imho.
If anything I wish my Iks was female, so tired of looking at that huge tail on the male.
Not a huge fan of the iks, but I'm literally a skeleton most of the time anyway.

[branamil]

It's a roleplaying game. Enjoying your character is far more important than having the most optimal spreadsheet.

[enjchanter]

It's a roleplaying game. Enjoying your character is far more important than having the most optimal spreadsheet.

I wish cringe ogre players would take a hint

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's a roleplaying game. Enjoying your character is far more important than having the most optimal spreadsheet.

Some people like optimizing. That's how they enjoy their character. It's not your place to tell other people how to play the game. Give people the facts and let them decide how to play given the information.

[Tann]

A human, gnome, erudite, or dark elf necro can kill all the same things an iksar necro can.

Play whichever race you like looking at the most.

[zelld52]

The Iks regen isn't that noticeable until level 51+ imho.
If anything I wish my Iks was female, so tired of looking at that huge tail on the male.
Not a huge fan of the iks, but I'm literally a skeleton most of the time anyway.

Iks regen is very noticeable starting at level 1. They regen HP twice as fast as non iksar. 100% more HP regen is extremely noticeable when youre sitting to med. Not as noticeable if youre actively lifetapping to regain HP

But yeah, as a necro you spend most of your time in skel form anyway

[Toxigen]

If you have a Z-heart, no.

If not, yes.

[caveslug]

Iks regen is very noticeable starting at level 1. They regen HP twice as fast as non iksar. 100% more HP regen is extremely noticeable when youre sitting to med. Not as noticeable if youre actively lifetapping to regain HP

But yeah, as a necro you spend most of your time in skel form anyway

We will have to agree to disagree, sure it's noticeable. But it's honestly not game breaking noticeable, until late game was my point.

I'm also 100% Iks camp for necro race too, its a huge QoL thing to have.
To me the biggest question is which gender, do you go big or small tail.
And which casting animation, the funky squat or arm wave.

[Toxigen]

if not lizardpeepul, definitely gnome

[Vexenu]

1-50 the Regen difference is not super noticeable. 50-60 you should mostly be charming and constantly casting Deflux to finish off mobs anyway so a lot of the efficiency advantage of Regen is wasted. 60+ raiding the Iksar will always make a better mana battery (absent ring 10 and Z-heart), but who the hell wants to do that anyway? Erudite, Human and DE Necros are both rare and awesome looking. Iksar Necros look like complete shit and are probably the single most common race/class combo in the game. But at the end of the day, the Necro class is strong enough that you can easily afford to play the non-optimal race and not lose anything except some marginal efficiency benefits at the high end.

[sajbert]

My main beef with gnome is that you can't get a guise now, then again as a gnome you wouldn't have use for a gnome mask and gl ever getting one of those if you start an iksar.

Being an iksar is nice for the regen but I dare say that non-iksar is best for leveling due to the XP penalty. Most camps have long enough spawn timers for iksar regen not to matter and there aren't that many spots where you just chain kill and where the XP is limited by downtime.

I've yet to hear of a single camp or fight that an iksar could pull off but a non-iksar couldn't given end-game gear. With a Z-heart and Ring 10 you'll do well enough. I guess for raiding it's nice to have iksar regen that unlike Ring 10 stacks with regen line of spells. But rarely matters what you do in raids anyway.

Having wall vision as a gnome is not to be underestimated, especially for a class with lulls. Sure, you can spend money on shrink pots and even if it's not a lot of money at 60 at least I find myself I'm too cheap to use them when I should.

The faction issue is a moot point because skelly illusion removes your race faction adjustment.

[branamil]

Some people like optimizing. That's how they enjoy their character. It's not your place to tell other people how to play the game. Give people the facts and let them decide how to play given the information.

It's not your place to tell others how to comment. That is how I enjoy commenting. People are free to decide whether the opinion in the comment is helpful to them or not.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's not your place to tell others how to comment. That is how I enjoy commenting. People are free to decide whether the opinion in the comment is helpful to them or not.

You can post nonsensical comments like this if you wish. I cannot stop you. It isn't helping anybody, however, or proving a point. It just makes you look silly.

It also doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy optimizing their character instead of focusing on fashion, and that shouldn't be discouraged.

[branamil]

You can post nonsensical comments like this if you wish. I cannot stop you. It isn't helping anybody, however, or proving a point. It just makes you look silly.

It also doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy optimizing their character instead of focusing on fashion, and that shouldn't be discouraged.

You can continue be volunteer internet comment police if you wish, no one can stop you. Just realize that 1] You aren't changing anything for anyone 2] You are wasting your time 3] For some bizarre autistic reason, you think that only certain viewpoints should be allowed 4] People are here for other viewpoints and reading other's comments might make them think about things from another points of view. You know, the definition of community. I wouldn't expect you to grasp that due to your profound social underdevelopment.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You can continue be volunteer internet comment police if you wish, no one can stop you. Just realize that 1] You aren't changing anything for anyone 2] You are wasting your time 3] For some bizarre autistic reason, you think that only certain viewpoints should be allowed 4] People are here for other viewpoints and reading other's comments might make them think about things from another points of view. You know, the definition of community. I wouldn't expect you to grasp that due to your profound social underdevelopment.

Your baseless delusions about other posters who disagree with you are irrelevant. The only bizarre thing here is your belief that anybody cares about this nonsense you are spewing.

I would advise you stick to the topic at hand, or quit while you are behind.

EDIT: I always find it strange when people think attacking other posters is "helping the community". All you are doing is showing the community you are willing to attack other posters who disagree with you for no reason. I guess this helps the community in the sense that you are showing your true colors to them. They will be wary of you in the future. But you aren't providing anything meaningful to the topic at hand.

[Keebz]

i just love the look and feel of dark elf. Is the iksar passive that huge and game breaking to the point i should stick to iksar?

I'm not getting chad min/max vibes from you. Play your dark elf.

[Toxigen]

Being an iksar is nice for the regen but I dare say that non-iksar is best for leveling due to the XP penalty. Most camps have long enough spawn timers for iksar regen not to matter and there aren't that many spots where you just chain kill and where the XP is limited by downtime.

I've yet to hear of a single camp or fight that an iksar could pull off but a non-iksar couldn't given end-game gear. With a Z-heart and Ring 10 you'll do well enough. I guess for raiding it's nice to have iksar regen that unlike Ring 10 stacks with regen line of spells. But rarely matters what you do in raids anyway.



Iksar regen is more like insulation vs. when things go tits up. If you're just doing easy shit you probably won't notice it, but if you're charming say 34-60 Kaesora / CoM / HS (which any necro worth his salt should do), you will 100% notice it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Iksar regen is more like insulation vs. when things go tits up. If you're just doing easy shit you probably won't notice it, but if you're charming say 34-60 Kaesora / CoM / HS (which any necro worth his salt should do), you will 100% notice it.

Agreed.

[enjchanter]

Playing an iksar necro basically means this game is too easy but you still need it to be easier

[sajbert]

Iksar regen is more like insulation vs. when things go tits up. If you're just doing easy shit you probably won't notice it, but if you're charming say 34-60 Kaesora / CoM / HS (which any necro worth his salt should do), you will 100% notice it.

Sure, but you also level 20% slower which will offset the regen as far as leveling goes.

At 60 when bad RNG hits the fan you are either

a) Dead
b) Dropping the target byusing wc cap, FD or zone.
c) Struggling to recover

It's only in the C case that regen will make any difference outside of downtime. In only a fraction of those C cases will iksar regen make or break it for you, especially you have z-heart and dain ring 10 and VP staff.

[GinnasP99]

There's a lot of items iks can't use that are pretty nice. The PoH range thing is non iks.
Iksars also can't equip golden efreeti so you're hard locked out of being a baller.

[Penish]

if anyone hasnt mentioned it yet, deathsilky is handicapped just let the dude do his thing

also iksar

[DeathsSilkyMist]

if anyone hasnt mentioned it yet, deathsilky is handicapped just let the dude do his thing


Nonsensical and delusional insults are irrelevant.

As a reminder, be wary when playing with Penish in game. He will purposely waste your time by grouping with you under false pretenses. He will record video of you in an attempt to make you look bad, and then leave the group abruptly. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3652957&postcount=23 - You can read this thread and see hard evidence of this.

He doesn't have the courage to post these videos, because he knows it will just show two things:
1. He shows that he doesn't know how the game works. He records video of people using normal strategies and assumes they are bad play.
2. He shows that he is indeed grouping with people under false pretenses. His true purpose is trying to record videos of people playing poorly.

[Uteunayr]

Iksar necro is the best choice hands down. That said you should just play what you want; it's your character. No point investing many hours into a character that you just hate looking at. It's not like non-iksar necros can't do camps iksar necros can or anything like that.

This is the right answer.

[Troxx]

Is iksar a MUST?

Nah.

Does it make a pretty big difference?

Yeah.

[Tann]

In a similar vein as the "regen is trivializes by Torpor" healthy debate on these here forums I'd have to wonder, is iksar regen trivialized by the soulwell staves that drop in VP? From the various necros I've chatted with in game it seems to be a common drop and easier to obtain than the epic by a country mile.

[branamil]

Nonsensical and delusional insults are irrelevant.

As a reminder, be wary when playing with Penish in game. He will purposely waste your time by grouping with you under false pretenses. He will record video of you in an attempt to make you look bad, and then leave the group abruptly. https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3652957&postcount=23 - You can read this thread and see hard evidence of this.

He doesn't have the courage to post these videos, because he knows it will just show two things:
1. He shows that he doesn't know how the game works. He records video of people using normal strategies and assumes they are bad play.
2. He shows that he is indeed grouping with people under false pretenses. His true purpose is trying to record videos of people playing poorly.

Unpaid volunteer elf-comment policeman and hot pocket enthusiast is extremely upset when others aren't existing in the elf-museum in the exact same way as him. It's almost as if getting upset when people don't follow his imaginary protocols is a sign of profound autism.

[Duik]

If said video is recorded and does indeed show a player playing badly. Does it not mean that said player did indeed play badly and is a bad player?

I'm trying to understand this and make said player look better but video evidence is strong. Pretty much all we have to show if we are not there to witness.

You also say he refuses to post the videos so what are you complaining about? Your confused ramblings are tough to follow. No wonder you constantly edit your posts.
Take a breath. Relax and type your responses into a text editor (I use Jota) first. Edit it to your hearts content. Proof read it.
Copy/paste contents into p99 forums.
You go girl.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Unpaid volunteer elf-comment policeman and hot pocket enthusiast is extremely upset when others aren't existing in the elf-museum in the exact same way as him. It's almost as if getting upset when people don't follow his imaginary protocols is a sign of profound autism.

I am not sure why you think falsely claiming other posters are autistic makes you look good. You aren't hurting me or helping yourself. Thanks for showing you are just a troll I guess. Helps the community know who they are.

If said video is recorded and does indeed show a player playing badly. Does it not mean that said player did indeed play badly and is a bad player?


This isn't the case. You can see my Youtube videos where I am soloing harder content. He cannot really claim I cannot solo KC when I have evidence of soloing harder stuff. We never started the test. I was camp cycling the mobs because I wasn't sure if Penish wanted to use them in the test. I wasn't going to wait 30 minutes for repops lol.


You also say he refuses to post the videos so what are you complaining about? Your confused ramblings are tough to follow. No wonder you constantly edit your posts.
You go girl.

I'm not complaining at all. I hope Penish posts the video. It will make Penish look very bad, and prove to other players he isn't worth playing with.

[sajbert]

In a similar vein as the "regen is trivializes by Torpor" healthy debate on these here forums I'd have to wonder, is iksar regen trivialized by the soulwell staves that drop in VP? From the various necros I've chatted with in game it seems to be a common drop and easier to obtain than the epic by a country mile.

Soul Well adds up to about 72hp/tick. To this you can add 5hp/tick from ZlandicarÂ’s heart and 2-6hp/tick from aura of battle and 10hp/tick from dain ring 10. Iksar adds about 7-8 hp/tick depending on if youÂ’re sitting or standing, <10% difference.

As you can see the relative benefit of being an iksar is very small indeed once you have gear and factor in lifedrain effects like soulwell in play (and we havenÂ’t even accounted for the others). Even if youÂ’re not fighting you can also drain an eye of zomm for HP, assuming you have beads anyway.

[Troxx]

You can continue be volunteer internet comment police if you wish, no one can stop you. Just realize that 1] You aren't changing anything for anyone 2] You are wasting your time 3] For some bizarre autistic reason, you think that only certain viewpoints should be allowed 4] People are here for other viewpoints and reading other's comments might make them think about things from another points of view. You know, the definition of community. I wouldn't expect you to grasp that due to your profound social underdevelopment.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/tzDSqlulk5gAAAAC/gods-honest-truth-red.gif

[Tann]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/tzDSqlulk5gAAAAC/gods-honest-truth-red.gif

inb4 a 3000 word multi-quoted break down of how every statement is "factually" incorrect along with video links unrelated to a thread about necro race choices.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

inb4 a 3000 word multi-quoted break down of how every statement is "factually" incorrect along with video links unrelated to a thread about necro race choices.

Agreeing with known trolls and supporting them is not a good look. Continuing to lie about other posters doesn't hurt me or help you.

[Jimjam]

Agreeing with known trolls and supporting them is not a good look. Continuing to lie about other posters doesn't hurt me or help you.

💯

[Troxx]

Let's get back on topic before it morphs into another DSM thread.


Necromancer is such a versatile and self sufficient class that any character race will be fine. As always you should play what makes you happy and what you prefer to look at. Lich eats your health to give you mana. Mana can be used, to varying degrees of efficiency, to recover your lost hp. Straight up lifetaps are less efficient. The best way of healing self outside of free VP click (vexing mordinia lifetap dot) clocks in at 2.22 hp returned per mana spent before factoring in specialization. If alteration spec, increase those returns by 12%. It's really not bad at all when you factor in the massive continuous mana regen from lich along with the fact that it deals as much damage as it heals you (dmg does get a bonus extra tick that doesn't give you a heal recourse). Because of the nature of necro play when soloing (charming or otherwise) balancing the losses from lich is straightforward solo and while you are in combat.



If you don't have a strong preference (visual or roleplay), however, iksar vs any other race has a really wide gap. It is there and it is noticeable while solo in combat but it really shines brighter at other times.

A) Between combat and recovery:

This one really is self-evident. Recovery is simply faster. Lich constantly rolls. If your hp is dropping below your comfort level, click off lich and your hp climbs much quicker while still getting meditate ticks. The iksar necro will be able to spend more total time with lich and thus less time having to sit and recover to begin with.

At 60 when I need to afk recover it's so nice to know that I can just cast Arch Lich and walk away. Sitting, at -2hp/tick I would end up down only 380 health before the spell expired. If I wanted to FD afk with this spell ... I could walk away, get side tracked ... forget I was logged on ... and still not die buffless assuming I was close to 100% health.

As a non-iksar ... self buffed only (or buffless) you'd die before the "efficient" lich (below) wore off at 19 min duration ... standing, sitting or FD.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Arch_Lich

B) "OH SHIT" ... the FD emergency FD:

Bad pull .. not the best circumstances ... whatever ... all other options are out the window and at you have to strategically bail on what you're doing. FD succeeds but now you're flopped in hostile territory and whatever percentage below a safe level of health to get the heck out of there. From 51+ it's gonna take the iksar necro a lot less time to get back to a safe level of health to evacuate, move along, or otherwise get back to business. Click off FD and you're recovering that health 267% faster at 51, 300% faster at 56, and 280% faster at 60 compared to the non-iksar necro who's flopped on the floor.


C) In a group doing the full scope of "extra":

Necromancers are very potent healers. My health 1:1 = their health, gifted "freely". We aren't shamans who have to canni-dance so I see no reason to compare standing regen to standing regen in the setting of a group. No reason to stand unless you are actively casting a spell. You compare sitting to sitting regen. Starting at level 51 iksar necros have a 7hp/tick sitting boost over non-iksars. At 60 it's an 11hp/tick advantage. As nice as that hp/tick advantage is as it relates to the lich dynamic ... it really does ease the burden of self-healing required when you are constantly giving your hp to someone else while also carrying the burden of lich sucking your life force away. I haven't played a high level non-iksar necro to compare, but it's pretty obvious that you're gonna have to spend a lot more time tapping to get the job done. I imagine it would be most noticeable when doing a small 2-4 man group were you're the only class capable of healing.

D) Boring raid duty: Twitches

Pretend you don't have a Z-heart or a 10th ring yet. Also pretend you don't have beads (or cant safely use them) to tap back your health. The 60 iksar necro with demi lich rolling simply needs a regrowth (free clicky from any druid) to have net positive health recovery while sitting. The non-iksar is going to lose 10hp/tick. If both toons do have both, the iksar will have a net positive of 16hp/tick which can be translated into some spot heals here and there with the spell (linked below) while still being self-sustaining/recovering/sufficient. Remember, this heal stacks with torpor and cleric HOT and can be cast on people outside your group (think the melees dashing in/out and taking splash aoe dmg). It also costs nothingburger mana so all your mana recovered is still flowing to twitches. The same non-iksar necro with the same items reaches a net positive as well, but less than a 3rd of the net recovery.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shadowbond


But for the sake of being realistic let us come back full circle. With extra effort (and annoyance) a non-iksar is fully functional and capable in all of the discussed scenarios ... just with a lower quality of life. Similar to shamans, regen is just such a huge quality of life issue for a class that turns hp into mana (and mana back into hp) that there really isn't anything another race brings to the table other than fashionquest. While I'm not the hugest fan of looking like an Iksar (it's not bad but yeah something else would look better), I also acknowledge that for a lot of my time playing the class I'm gonna look like a skeleton anyways.

If we assume the necro has their VP staff (linked below) all of this becomes much less relevant at points in time where you have a target to safely tap (free healing!)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shissar_Deathspeaker_Staff

At least with Shaman's there are debatable degrees of wiggle room for logical discussion on racial perks as the regen races do actually give something up with their class choice that would otherwise be available: FSI.

**Gonna head this off at the pass with a disclaimer: DSM please know the above is not an admission that I feel FSI is better than regen. I don't. You disagree. That's fine. I have zero interest in debating that topic here so please let us not get side-tracked in this specific thread. If, for whatever reason, you feel compelled to discuss the merits of race choice for the shaman class feel free to quote me in that other thread (you know the one). Do not pollute this one further than you already have.**

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Let's get back on topic before it morphs into another DSM thread.



The only posters to blame for derailed threads are trolls like yourself. They are actually "Troxx and Friends Threads". The pattern is always the same. A random troll attacks me out of the blue, and I defend myself. If you don't attack me, I don't defend myself. It's really that simple. Stick to the topic at hand and don't post nonsense. I know it doesn't sound difficult, but you post nonsense most of the time.


Do not pollute this one further than you already have.

The only people polluting the thread are trolls like yourself, posting off-topic nonsense and lies for no reason. I didn't start attacking people in this thread, you can check the history. Branamil started it, and you piled on. Take your own advise and stop spamming threads with nonsense. You and other trolls are the real problem.

Back to the topic at hand:


But for the sake of being realistic let us come back full circle. With extra effort (and annoyance) a non-iksar is fully functional and capable in all of the discussed scenarios ... just with a lower quality of life.


This is correct. It is the same thing I said on page 1:

From a leveling perspective Necro is a strong class regardless of race.

End-game a non Iksar is more expensive to gear. An Iksar only needs a ZHeart for positive sitting HP regen with Arch Lich. A Dark Elf would need ZHeart + Ring 10.

An Iksar can also get positive HP regen with Demi Lich using ZHeart + Ring 10 while sitting. A Dark Elf cannot get positive HP regen on Demi Lich with self gear.

So you just need to decide if fashion or end-game is more important to you.

[Troxx]

That post was wholly unnecessary. Stay on topic or maybe don't post compulsively? Everything you said that was relevant to this thread was simply agreeing with me followed by quoting what you already said. Nothing productive was added.

Cut out the shit.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That post was wholly unnecessary. Stay on topic or maybe don't post compulsively? Everything you said that was relevant to this thread was simply agreeing with me followed by quoting what you already said. Nothing productive was added.

Cut out the shit.

Do you have amnesia?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674523&postcount=35

You just posted that today. That post was wholly unnecessary lol, as was the "DSM Threads" comment in your previous post. You are the one posting off-topic nonsense compulsively.

The post you are responding to in the linked post was also wholly unnecessary. Nothing productive was added. Yet you allow Branamil to get away with it, because you will ignore any bad behavior that you enjoy. If someone is attacking me with off-topic nonsense, that's completely fine and on topic somehow in your mind. If I defend myself? That is somehow spamming the thread. It's absolute nonsense, and your hypocrisy is extremely obvious right now.

If you didn't post that comment, I wouldn't have posted a response defending myself. It is amazing you don't understand basic cause and effect. You can check the post history, I never randomly attack other posters. You attack me, and I defend myself. If you don't want me to defend myself, don't attack me!

Your first post in this thread was on topic, and not attacking anybody. But in typical Troxx fashion, you compulsively had to troll this thread and attack other posters. Can you even respond to one thread without doing this? Can you control yourself for even two posts in a row?

[Troxx]

I’m not gonna apologize for agreeing with someone. You were being a turd for no rational reason over a nothingburger post. If anyone objectively looks at the discourse that was evolving between you and Branamil following his extremely benign post … the absurdity, pointlessness and hostility is obvious.

Why do you always have to make drama out of something that doesn’t need to be dramatic.

Nobody here is actually disagreeing.

It’s a fact that iksar is objectively the best.

But that’s not what the OP was asking. The meat and potatoes of his post was this (a direct quote from post 1):

“Is the iksar passive that huge and game breaking to the point i should stick to iksar?“

And the answer to that is also not up for debate. The answer is no.

Necro is such a powerful, flexible, and capable class that compensating for the lack of regen is easy.

If you want to debate otherwise I’m totally happy to go in that direction with you. That would actually be relevant to the thread. Despite my lengthy post touting why iksar is objectively best I am totally happy to rake you over the coals if you’re wanting to indicate that (shifting the operative question around here)

**Iksar passive regen is huge and game breaking to the point that it would be fruitless to play any other race

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I’m not gonna apologize for agreeing with someone. You were being a turd for no rational reason over a nothingburger post. If anyone objectively looks at the discourse that was evolving between you and Branamil following his extremely benign post … the absurdity, pointlessness and hostility is obvious.


This is why you are a troll. You will let bad behavior slide when it suits your narrative. You have no consistency, and therefore there is no way to trust anything you say. You believe that lying about other posters is not spamming theads, which is obviously silly.

You cannot take the high road and ask people to stay on topic when you always derail threads in the same manner.

My post was not hostile at all. Your bias towards me simply makes you read what I say in the worst possible manner.


Why do you always have to make drama out of something that doesn’t need to be dramatic.

You should really ask yourself this question. Why do you compulsively post off topic lies and nonsense to stir up drama? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I won't need to defend myself if you don't attack me.


Nobody here is actually disagreeing.

It’s a fact that iksar is objectively the best.


Indeed. This is why you should be berating Branamil for derailing the thread instead of myself. I stated that it is up to OP to decide if fashion or stats are his preference. I did not force OP to pick Min/Max, nor is anybody else. There was no reason to target me specifically other than spamming the thread with off topic nonsense.

[sajbert]

Honestly guys. This isn't the second, third or fourth thread that you guys shit up with your own conflict. It's not even just DSM, both parties take part in this.

Nobody here gives about anything other than players weighing in on iksar vs non-iksar.

If I summarize what I've gathered so far:

Currently cases have been made for that prior to 50, at least with a Z-heart, it matters less if you go Iksar or not. After that it's a moderate to great QoL and especially outside of combat. Once you get VP-staff and other regen items it's less than a 10% hp regen difference in combat. At 50+ outside of combat if you can't be arsed or can't afford beads is where it still to a mild to moderate extent with all the bells and whistles equipped and to a moderate to great extent without. The 7-8 regen difference at 60 once you have good gear will rarely make or break a fight and it won't affect what targets you can or can't kill.

I've made the case for gnome size being a great boon for a class with lulls. You could in theory but not really in practice get a gnome mask to offset this and shrink pots are always an option too. Gnome faction is better too but a non-issue as skelly illusion makes it a moot point.

Non-iksars level faster. I will make the point here too that this to some extent matters at 60 too as death does happen, especially for raiding players. As necros mostly solo this will save a substantial time leveling and especially for any necro that is doing timed spawn camps where the iksar regen doesn't translate into faster mob kill rates.

Fashion will always be subjective but if I understand it most people seem to prefer non-iksar necros. Each to his or her own.

[Videri]

(Gnome mask (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_Tinkering) is bard and rogue only.) But shrink potions are not too expensive for a necro.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

(Gnome mask (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_Tinkering) is bard and rogue only.) But shrink potions are not too expensive for a necro.

Yeah you would use Shrink Pots for "gnome vision". The size of your model is what gives you "gnome vision", not the gnome model specifically. The gnome model just so happens to be the right size by default.

[Troxx]

Indeed. This is why you should be berating Branamil for derailing the thread instead of myself. I stated that it is up to OP to decide if fashion or stats are his preference. I did not force OP to pick Min/Max, nor is anybody else. There was no reason to target me specifically other than spamming the thread with off topic nonsense.

Why on earth would I berate him for saying:

It's a roleplaying game. Enjoying your character is far more important than having the most optimal spreadsheet.

You picked a fight with him basically over that. You inferred you knew better what should or shouldn't be posted and he called you out for the twat-waffle you are.

Please stop derailing a threat about a class you've never actually played.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Why on earth would I berate him for saying:


I didn't say you should berate him for that comment. You berate him for the subsequent comments directly attacking me, which provide no value to this discussion.


You picked a fight with him basically over that. You inferred you knew better what should or shouldn't be posted and he called you out for the twat-waffle you are.

Please stop derailing a threat about a class you've never actually played.

I didn't pick a fight with him over that. You are just reading everything I say negatively due to your obvious bias and trolling tendencies. Your assumption I am picking fights with other people is your problem, not mine.

Please stop derailing threads with nonsense and lies.

[Troxx]

Ok whatever. Let the thread move on. I do not expect anything more will be said to add value from any source (you, me or anyone). You and I actually seem to 100% agree here. The only disconnect was the … situation … evolving between you and Branamil. My perceptions of that situation notwithstanding l, it was not relevant to the purpose of the thread.

We all know that regen is the best choice for a class that converts hp to mana and more efficiently converts that mana back to HP.

[branamil]

I didn't say you should berate him for that comment. You berate him for the subsequent comments directly attacking me, which provide no value to this discussion.


You're just a troll with zero social skills. I share my opinion and you feel the need to "Correct" it rather than letting all opinions stand on their own merits and letting the reader decide. So STFU with your holier than though bullshit. I know this won't sink in because again, you are severely socially handicapped, but when everyone thread you are in stinks... it's probably because you're full of shit.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok whatever. Let the thread move on. I do not expect anything more will be said to add value from any source (you, me or anyone). You and I actually seem to 100% agree here. The only disconnect was the … situation … evolving between you and Branamil. My perceptions of that situation notwithstanding l, it was not relevant to the purpose of the thread.

We all know that regen is the best choice for a class that converts hp to mana and more efficiently converts that mana back to HP.

Agreed.

You're just a troll with zero social skills. I share my opinion and you feel the need to "Correct" it rather than letting all opinions stand on their own merits and letting the reader decide. So STFU with your holier than though bullshit. I know this won't sink in because again, you are severely socially handicapped, but when everyone thread you are in stinks... it's probably because you're full of shit.

Your nonsensical lies and delusions about me are irrelevant, and nobody cares about them. They are also irrelevant to the topic at hand.

If you want to make a thread insulting me, that is what RnF is for. Feel free to post this as often as you want over there.

[sajbert]

(Gnome mask (https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_Tinkering) is bard and rogue only.) But shrink potions are not too expensive for a necro.
Ah, that I didn't know. Always thought it was clickable from inventory.

Guess this gif confused me with the gnome cleric in the pic, it's an actual gnome cleric then.
https://wiki.project1999.com/images/Tink.gif

[Troxx]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674652&postcount=52


We all know that regen is the best choice for a class that converts hp to mana and more efficiently converts that mana back to HP.

Agreed.


Lol i actually took a screenshot of that! The original post before you can retro-edit it!

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Regen is the best choice for any class that converts hp to mana and can turn mana into hp. If I’m not mistake … that’s also a shaman!

I win!

Saving all of the above for posterity! Thank for finally agreeing!

Checkmate!

#winning

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3674652&postcount=52



Lol i actually took a screenshot of that! The original post before you can retro-edit it!

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Regen is the best choice for any class that converts hp to mana and can turn mana into hp. If I’m not mistake … that’s also a shaman!

I win!

Saving all of the above for posterity! Thank for finally agreeing!

Checkmate!

#winning

This thread is about Necromancers, not Shamans. This is just a silly attempt at a gotcha.

Shamans get Torpor, which is regeneration turned up to the extreme. The basic idea of "Regen is great for any class that can turn mana into HP" is true. But racial regeneration is just such a small amount compared to Torpor. This is why racial regeneration becomes significantly less useful on a Shaman, and why FSI ends up beating racial regeneration. Again, I have plenty of evidence to back this up in the guide on my signature.

[Duik]

So necros then.
Beads are good to lifetap hp back when no mobs in camp. I always wondered why elder beads were so expensive. Imma fucken noob.

Never likely to go VP or ntov (for the clickies) a lizzie would be theoretically best. But by a narrow enough margin that with clever play and/or lucky mob supply can be made up for. Being friends with a druid/shaman completely frees you of your bond. (Hehe)

Great info. Spanks.

Edit.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Clay_Bracelet
is this item castable from invent on any class? Its hard to tell sometimes.
Haha. I just reread the quest page. NVM

[branamil]

Agreed.
If you want to make a thread insulting me, that is what RnF is for. Feel free to post this as often as you want over there.

If you cannot stay focused on the topic at hand I suggest you log out for a while and remember that it is not healthy to be on the computer for 17 hours per day. I know there is probably no one or no Thing that you have a healthy relationship with in the real world due to your obsession with your imaginary digital elf collection, but maybe you could visit your local park or library. Just please shower beforehand and remember that real people will not want to discuss elven statistics with you, perhaps you could choose a neutral topic like the weather.

Don't bother quote-replying me as that will just demonstrate that you obsessed with me. Be the bigger man and just let it go.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you cannot stay focused on the topic at hand I suggest you log out for a while and remember that it is not healthy to be on the computer for 17 hours per day. I know there is probably no one or no Thing that you have a healthy relationship with in the real world due to your obsession with your imaginary digital elf collection, but maybe you could visit your local park or library. Just please shower beforehand and remember that real people will not want to discuss elven statistics with you, perhaps you could choose a neutral topic like the weather.

Don't bother quote-replying me as that will just demonstrate that you obsessed with me. Be the bigger man and just let it go.

This is clearly projection. You are the one making these posts. I am simply defending myself. You can choose to be the bigger man and stop trolling at any time.

[Troxx]

He quote replied you.

[Duik]

A troll is NEVER the bigger man in a room full of Ogres.

[Jimjam]

Honestly guys. This isn't the second, third or fourth thread that you guys shit up with your own conflict. It's not even just DSM, both parties take part in this.

Nobody here gives about anything other than players weighing in on iksar vs non-iksar.

If I summarize what I've gathered so far:

Currently cases have been made for that prior to 50, at least with a Z-heart, it matters less if you go Iksar or not. After that it's a moderate to great QoL and especially outside of combat. Once you get VP-staff and other regen items it's less than a 10% hp regen difference in combat. At 50+ outside of combat if you can't be arsed or can't afford beads is where it still to a mild to moderate extent with all the bells and whistles equipped and to a moderate to great extent without. The 7-8 regen difference at 60 once you have good gear will rarely make or break a fight and it won't affect what targets you can or can't kill.

I've made the case for gnome size being a great boon for a class with lulls. You could in theory but not really in practice get a gnome mask to offset this and shrink pots are always an option too. Gnome faction is better too but a non-issue as skelly illusion makes it a moot point.

Non-iksars level faster. I will make the point here too that this to some extent matters at 60 too as death does happen, especially for raiding players. As necros mostly solo this will save a substantial time leveling and especially for any necro that is doing timed spawn camps where the iksar regen doesn't translate into faster mob kill rates.

Fashion will always be subjective but if I understand it most people seem to prefer non-iksar necros. Each to his or her own.

TLDR non-iksar get arch liche to kill themselfs earlier. Iksar get archliche later but still don’t kill themself.

[zelld52]

I've made the case for gnome size being a great boon for a class with lulls. You could in theory but not really in practice get a gnome mask to offset this and shrink pots are always an option too.

Does sitting face-first into a wall as skeleton still allow wall-vision?

[sajbert]

Does sitting face-first into a wall as skeleton still allow wall-vision?
Good question. Short answer is not sure but I believe no so you'd the have to change out of form to peek which isn't too bad.

There are 3 kinds of wall vision that I'm aware of

Gnome size: Full.
Halfling: half screen
Female human and dark elf (and probably a few other female models): A wonky sorta edge wall vision where you can't see directly ahead.

So if there's any wall vision to be had it'd be the later one.

[sajbert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAep3eigpsw&start=1592

Here's a female iksar in skellie form (and I THINK the skellieform is the same regardless, maybe someone can confirm) able to do a 50% wallpeek when sitting.

[sajbert]

I tried with a female iksar online and similarly able to do a 50% wallpeek when sitting.

[sajbert]

Actually male iksars can do the same, 50% wallpeek that is when sitting.

[Tann]

Pretty sure any race can do this while sitting in skelly form, worked fine earlier on my human necro. I imagine it's due to how low to the ground your viewpoint is when sitting as a skeleton.

[sajbert]

Pretty sure any race can do this while sitting in skelly form, worked fine earlier on my human necro. I imagine it's due to how low to the ground your viewpoint is when sitting as a skeleton.
Whilst not as convenient as gnome wall vision would certainly erode that small benefit gnome has.

[fortior]

Fashion is important but as a necro you'll be a skeleton for most of your career. It's very likely that you'll only see your character model on char select, when entering a new zone, or while leveling because you'll not have the regen to sustain it.

The end goal of your necro is being a skeleton 100% of the time. This sucks for fashionquest purposes and I often click off my skeleton form just to show off my cool robe and weapon collection, but this is important to keep in mind when fashion is a big deal to you.

[PestilentCancer]

You can wall hack on male, and female, Iksar without skele illusion. I do it all the time. It's nowhere near as good as Gnome, but you can do it.

Fashion is important but as a necro you'll be a skeleton for most of your career. It's very likely that you'll only see your character model on char select, when entering a new zone, or while leveling because you'll not have the regen to sustain it.

The end goal of your necro is being a skeleton 100% of the time. This sucks for fashionquest purposes and I often click off my skeleton form just to show off my cool robe and weapon collection, but this is important to keep in mind when fashion is a big deal to you.

You can see your character model, if you really want to, but you will pay for it with 500 damage. Just hit yourself with Ignite Bones while lich is up. The Illusion from Ignite will overwrite the one from Lich, then wear off in a few of seconds. Once it wears off, you will be you again and still keep the Lich buff.

[enjchanter]

You can wall hack on male, and female, Iksar without skele illusion. I do it all the time. It's nowhere near as good as Gnome, but you can do it.



You can see your character model, if you really want to, but you will pay for it with 500 damage. Just hit yourself with Ignite Bones while lich is up. The Illusion from Ignite will overwrite the one from Lich, then wear off in a few of seconds. Once it wears off, you will be you again and still keep the Lich buff.

actually insane tech, i did not know this

[PestilentCancer]

Iksar Female "No skele" wall hack (https://youtu.be/NAep3eigpsw?si=KoHUtLJbtKFxdbLj&t=1804)

Ignite Bones Skele Removal (https://youtu.be/fYz1PVFbpAw?si=8cGNXGN2yNiN2jt8&t=414)

[Vexenu]

Has anyone tried looking through walls while in shrunken skelly form after self-nuking with Ignite Bones? Does that work? Or entering the Hole?

[Uteunayr]

So i played back in 99 and i had both iksar and darkelf. I know the regen and ac were AMAZING but i just love the look and feel of dark elf. Is the iksar passive that huge and game breaking to the point i should stick to iksar? Im just not wanting to be an animalistic necro lol. I want good visuals BUT i want to have good race choice as well and dont want to make the worst necro possible.

"Must" is an overstatement. Iksar regeneration is an absolutely fantastic racial perk for a necromancer and one that you should go after if you care about min-maxing, but this is a 25 year old game. That level of min-max just isn't required.

The VP staff, when you use it regularly, does help a great deal in leveling the playing field, but keep in mind the long cast time and needing a target to devour. If you're burning enough HP that you need to keep the recourse going, you're looking at using up about 22% of your active time just casting the stick. That goes up to about 29% if you're using beads to get a target.

Or perhaps consider this in another context: Even with VP staff, would you turn down 2 free, non-droppable zHearts that don't take up equipment slots if given the chance? Or turn down a necro unique Ring10 with a buff that stacks with normal Ring10?

I'll tell ya, the VP staff really is nice, but it isn't so nice that I've felt either of those two items or iksar passive regen becomes inconsequential. Then again, when I necro I'm also using a Manna Robe to canni dance while in Demi-Lich so I can push upwards of +72 mana a tick, while also throwing out Shadowbonds. To me, there is no such thing as too much HP regen, lol.

Take the regen if you care about your character having every advantage, but be aware that nothing about this game requires it. Do it for you if it's important to you. If it's more important to you that you have a different race's aesthetics or that you remake your classic EQ character here on p1999, do that instead.

[enjchanter]

Iksar necros are bitch made and also cowards

Write that down

[spoil]

Just make an enchanter.

[Vivitron]

Iksar necros are bitch made and also cowards

Write that down

I finally get your warrior hate. You're mad at yourself for not making it an Erudite.

[enjchanter]

https://i.imgur.com/tDK7Sem.jpeg

better luck next time

[jman]

Lots of streamers on youtube doing entire playthroughs. Not one iksar necro. I've seen human, de, and erudite though. Just saying. For being "the best" it's strange. Make whatever looks good to you. You will have to stare at it for a long time.

[Bardp1999]

You're a skeleton most of the time so not being Iksar makes it thrice as stupid. It's literally the only class/race combo I would say you will regret if you don't do it

[Toxigen]

You're a skeleton most of the time so not being Iksar makes it thrice as stupid. It's literally the only class/race combo I would say you will regret if you don't do it

not being a gnome war / cleric / mage / rogue would be pretty regrettable too

[caveslug]

Lots of streamers on youtube doing entire playthroughs. Not one iksar necro. I've seen human, de, and erudite though. Just saying. For being "the best" it's strange. Make whatever looks good to you. You will have to stare at it for a long time.

I know of a couple, and to be fair those were during Green server launch before Iksar.

Iksar isn't game breaking, it is however the "best" race for the class. As the regen to Lich line of spells really stands out 55+. Not shocking when you /who necro in game. You will get 100 Iksar, and 5 of the other races.

[Tethler]

You're a skeleton most of the time so not being Iksar makes it thrice as stupid. It's literally the only class/race combo I would say you will regret if you don't do it

I made my necro on blue a DE because I liked the aesthetic. Went for the full netted kelp/square helm fashion quest, too. After level 29 or whenever it was that the lich line adds the skeleton illusion, I was in skel form way more than I wasn't. Can confirm the regret of not going iksar now that my necro is mid-50s.

[Rader]

the regen is nice, the xp penalty is not

min maxing in general is for losers, so play whatever the F you want

[cd288]

the regen is nice, the xp penalty is not

min maxing in general is for losers, so play whatever the F you want

I've always been curious about how total time 1-60 shakes out between Iksar vs. non-Iksar, assuming you just soloed the same content the whole way.

Like obviously the Iksar regen makes a big difference 50-60 so I think it probably helps offset that 20% EXP penalty. But is the EXP penalty significant enough (especially 1-50 when the regen is impactful but not AS impactful) that 1-60 a non-Iksar would require less hours?

I wonder if someone years ago ever tested this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I've always been curious about how total time 1-60 shakes out between Iksar vs. non-Iksar, assuming you just soloed the same content the whole way.

Like obviously the Iksar regen makes a big difference 50-60 so I think it probably helps offset that 20% EXP penalty. But is the EXP penalty significant enough (especially 1-50 when the regen is impactful but not AS impactful) that 1-60 a non-Iksar would require less hours?

I wonder if someone years ago ever tested this.

You could math it out roughly speaking.

A level 59 Iksar gets 16 HP sitting and 10 HP standing per tick.

A level 59 Non-Iksar gets 6 HP sitting and 3 HP standing per tick.

The level 49 Lich spell decreases HP by 22, and increases mana by 20. Having Lich active for the full hour costs you 13200 HP.

Touch of Night (Lifetap) gives you 720 HP for 405 Mana.

A level 59 Iksar recovers 9600 HP per hour, assuming they never miss a sitting tick. This means you need to recover 3600 HP per hour via Touch of Night. You need to cast Touch of Night 5 times to make up for this damage, which is 5 x 405 = 2025 mana spent. You gain 12000 Mana per hour with Lich, and 1200 Mana per hour via Meditate (assuming you never miss a tick). This means an Iksar has a total of 22000 mana to spend per hour when subtracting the mana spent on Touch of Night.

A level 59 Non-Iksar recovers 3600 HP per hour, assuming they never miss a sitting tick. This means you need to recover 9600 HP per hour via Touch of Night. You need to cast Touch of Night 13 times to make up for this damage, which is 13 x 405 = 5265 mana spent. You gain 12000 Mana per hour with Lich, and 1200 Mana per hour via Meditate (assuming you never miss a tick). This means a Dark Elf has a total of 18700 mana to spend per hourwhen subtracting the mana spent on Touch of Night.

This means an Iksar is getting roughly 3300 more mana per hour than a Dark Elf. realistically speaking you will miss some sitting ticks, so we could say an Iksar has roughly 3000 more mana per hour than a Dark Elf.

The question becomes: Can you kill 20% more mobs with 3000 more mana? This assumes you are at a camp that could support killing 20% more mobs per hour of course. If you are semi-AFK killing a single mob, you aren't going to be getting more kills per hour, since a Dark Elf could just recover the necessary mana between respawns.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

... 1200 Mana per hour via Meditate (assuming you never miss a tick).

I meant to say 12000 Mana.

[Vexenu]

50-60 you should be leveling exclusively with charm, which means you're casting Deflux very often to finish off mobs, which means the Iksar Regen advantage is mostly wasted. Whatever minor advantage it provides at that point in no way offsets a 20% XP penalty in terms of leveling speed.

[Jimjam]

I see many necromancers working skyshrine in their 50s (not charm pet), so I don’t wholeheartedly subscribe to the argument you ‘should’ only use charm.

[Toxigen]

you charm 50-60 for xp, no idea what they're doing in skyshrine but it aint getting good XP

[PatChapp]

They aren't xping,they are camping fedhars for a wurm lord shawl. The necro camp is like 8 mobs every half hr, any race can do it and have downtime.
It can be done at 57, and I guess they could be doing it for xp. It is not a great xp camp

[Jimjam]

you charm 50-60 for xp, no idea what they're doing in skyshrine but it aint getting good XP

They aren't xping,they are camping fedhars for a wurm lord shawl. The necro camp is like 8 mobs every half hr, any race can do it and have downtime.
It can be done at 57, and I guess they could be doing it for xp. It is not a great xp camp

Yeah, this. They are doing it for shawl and since they are gonna kill so many xp mobs they figure may as well do it before 60 instead of after so the xp is contributing to something.

[Toxigen]

Fair. I wouldn't want to play a necro at 60 either.

[kaltice34]

Sinnycool on youtube does a lvl 60 dark elf necro. You can watch some of the vids to see how lich effects him at 60. I played a human necro to 53. In my experience you don't *have* to go iksar but any time I had lich going I had to get bond of death on something to counter act it as I would get down to 50% hp moderately quick. However, if you're in it for the long haul, there are regeneration items that a necro can wear. You have a Zheart (+5) the coldain ring #10 (+10) and there are 3 items with the effect 'aura of battle' that each have +2 regen and each stacks. Iksar regen is only about +11 over a non iksar so the coldain ring alone would get u nearly iksar regen.

[Sonark]

Lots of streamers on youtube doing entire playthroughs. Not one iksar necro. I've seen human, de, and erudite though. Just saying. For being "the best" it's strange. Make whatever looks good to you. You will have to stare at it for a long time.

These forumquest min/maxers really ruin the godamn game for talking about a .01% (oh my god please don't give me the actual percent you hopeless bastards) advantage that ultimately means nothing.

Play the race you like. Make sure your AGI is at least 75. That's it. That's the game.

[Wakanda]

The people saying iksar regen isn’t very noticeable until 51+ are out of touch lol ! I started as an erudite necromancer and rerolled as an iksar at level 44, not to min max, but because I had a huge hiatus and wanted to start over fresh and I legit didn’t even lose hp on my iksar necro from using lich until I was level 30+. On my erudite I had to watch my hp carefully from level 8 and onward ��. Also one thing people forget is how much hp you can regenerate as an iksar while running across zones. I will legit lich down to like 30% while traveling and then click it off and usually have full hp / mana by the time I get to my final destination ��

Edit you don’t have to play an iksar though, I just thought it was crazy to imply the regen isn’t noticeable at low level �� like a human necromancer is still going to be more powerful than 95% of classes ��

People talking about fashion quest tho and like, I don’t even care what my armor looks like on necro since I’m always a skeleton and being KOS doesn’t matter because of skeleton form making you neutral most places

The only real race for necro is skeleton ��

[Crede]

If you have a Z-heart, no.

If not, yes.

This is probably the best answer. I went human eyepatch zheart with my necro and loved it. Zheart gives you enough regen to notice a difference but eventually there comes a point where you can’t even kill mobs fast enough to take advantage of all that extra regen esp when you’re just deflux’n stuff to death. Iksars will make a slightly better twitch bot on raids but if this is the reason you’re rolling a necro then you’re missing out on an insanely fun/powerful class.

I’d first pick your favorite race as there’s still a lot of non skeleton time(love that ignite bones trick!) then if you plan to raid prioritize things like zheart/ring 10/vp staff/aob.