Consequences of merging Blue and Green ?

[Viscere]

Pro

-decreased price of items
-easier leveling, more active lower level areas
-increased competition
-new server for those enjoying a fresh start

Contra

-harder to get specific camps
-harder to get specific raid items
- 1k - 1.2k prime time everyday : server lag?

[spoil]

I would think that more players would flock to the new Green server to offset the numbers gained from the merge.

[cotterpin]

I would think that more players would flock to the new Green server to offset the numbers gained from the merge.

No new green. Green was a mistake.

[cd288]

I would think that more players would flock to the new Green server to offset the numbers gained from the merge.

True, depends on when they do it though. I could see a point where they merge and tell us they're still working on some coding for stuff for new Green and it will be a few months.

Would be cool to have everyone together on the same server again for a bit before they split the population

[Toxigen]

yes

[Philistine]

I feel like prices for items are* already down. People are still farming the heck out of stuff, but not as many people need it. 28k cof, 35k torpor, 35ishk fungi, for example.

[branamil]

The cons are that the staff would have a lot of extra work for very little gain

[enjchanter]

Pros:
Who cares
Cons
Who cares

[Solist]

Sorry you’re not rich on both servers.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The biggest benefit to merging the servers is preventing the player base from becoming too fractured.

Some players will stay on Green 1.0 instead of going over to Green 2.0. Same with Blue players who never went over to Green 1.0.

I honestly don't see P99 surviving if they keep Green and Blue separate servers after releasing Green 2.0. You're going to have 400-500 players on each server at that point on peak hours. Less during off hours.

There will be a percentage of players who are boxing multiple servers simultaneously too. The more servers they have to split their attention, the more likely you are to see semi-AFK campers instead of groups of players.

[GnomeLuvr]

I really hope there is an ongoing conversation between the devs regarding a possible merge. The population on blue has gotten so low that it's no longer easy to find groups at lower levels except at peak hours, and the tunnel has been so empty since Quarm launched that it's taking forever to find spells/items for sale.

It seems the only time the server gets busy is when there's an earthquake or a re-pop day, and everyone jumps over from other servers to raid, then log back off as soon as they run out of targets.

[cd288]

I really hope there is an ongoing conversation between the devs regarding a possible merge. The population on blue has gotten so low that it's no longer easy to find groups at lower levels except at peak hours, and the tunnel has been so empty since Quarm launched that it's taking forever to find spells/items for sale.

It seems the only time the server gets busy is when there's an earthquake or a re-pop day, and everyone jumps over from other servers to raid, then log back off as soon as they run out of targets.

Yeah even Green is becoming somewhat like this. We really don't have the population to sustain two healthy servers anymore. I really wish they would merge.

[Prismaticshop]

I really hope there is an ongoing conversation between the devs regarding a possible merge. The population on blue has gotten so low that it's no longer easy to find groups at lower levels except at peak hours, and the tunnel has been so empty since Quarm launched that it's taking forever to find spells/items for sale.

It seems the only time the server gets busy is when there's an earthquake or a re-pop day, and everyone jumps over from other servers to raid, then log back off as soon as they run out of targets.

Noticed this as well

[wuanahto]

as someone who likes just walking into a camp without competition and spending hours without seeing another person just no to server merge

[cd288]

as someone who likes just walking into a camp without competition and spending hours without seeing another person just no to server merge

Seems weird to play classic EQ then

[cd288]

The cons are that the staff would have a lot of extra work for very little gain

While I do think they will eventually merge and start a new Green ("eventually" meaning anywhere from this year to a couple years down the road), this is probably right. While it might be relatively easy to merge servers, it's a lot of work for the staff to handle a larger player base on one server plus all the various classic changes they'd want to make for new Green that were discovered during the course of Green 1.0. Wish I knew how to do that coding stuff so I could help out haha

I think another commenter made a fair point of what do you do with the CSR who are on one server but play on another? Make them choose between playing or being CSR? Then you have to replace a bunch of CSR that quit? It's not an insurmountable issue, and I doubt it's why they haven't merged, but it is AN issue that you have to come up with a solution for, which isn't easy. Just another item of "work" for the staff.

[WarpathEQ]

It does beg the question, if the devs are putting little to no effort on the current Green and Blue server, what are they spending their time on?

Have they taken a step back from P99 all together and just allocating little to no time to the project at all, or are they working on something behind the scenes like a merge or new server?

I've personally seen no indication from P99 staff that a merge or a new server are in the works are a part of their vision and to date the excessive amount of threads dedicated to this topic are just filled with speculation and projections of personal preferences.

[Toxigen]

It does beg the question, if the devs are putting little to no effort on the current Green and Blue server, what are they spending their time on?


real life, its better than elfsim

[Videri]

the excessive amount of threads dedicated to this topic are just filled with speculation and projections of personal preferences.

[enjchanter]

It does beg the question, if the devs are putting little to no effort on the current Green and Blue server, what are they spending their time on?

Have they taken a step back from P99 all together and just allocating little to no time to the project at all, or are they working on something behind the scenes like a merge or new server?

I've personally seen no indication from P99 staff that a merge or a new server are in the works are a part of their vision and to date the excessive amount of threads dedicated to this topic are just filled with speculation and projections of personal preferences.

They literally built and host this server for free bro
They owe you nothing

[Evia]

It does beg the question, if the devs are putting little to no effort on the current Green and Blue server, what are they spending their time on?

Have they taken a step back from P99 all together and just allocating little to no time to the project at all, or are they working on something behind the scenes like a merge or new server?

I've personally seen no indication from P99 staff that a merge or a new server are in the works are a part of their vision and to date the excessive amount of threads dedicated to this topic are just filled with speculation and projections of personal preferences.

Read the writing on the wall...

They don't care about it anymore.

If they did, they'd communicate plans. They either are handcuffed due to an agreement with whomever owns the EQ IP now, or they don't give a shit.

Either way a merge is very unlikely. Even tho I'd agree with you that it seems necessary now.

[Prismaticshop]

It does beg the question, if the devs are putting little to no effort on the current Green and Blue server, what are they spending their time on?

Have they taken a step back from P99 all together and just allocating little to no time to the project at all, or are they working on something behind the scenes like a merge or new server?

I've personally seen no indication from P99 staff that a merge or a new server are in the works are a part of their vision and to date the excessive amount of threads dedicated to this topic are just filled with speculation and projections of personal preferences.

I think you underestimate the amount of time necessary to just run the servers.

There is staff, petitions, etc this is not a small team and while it's likely they have it on back burner for now, it doesn't mean it's 0 work.

They pushed Green towards the end of its timeline, sleeper is gone, Chardok 2.0 is up

They probably watched the effects of Quarm, which might be more successful than they anticipated.

Numbers on Green/Blue have dwindled, but prime time is still above 1k cumulated, they're probably happy with that.

The big difference between other servers and P99 is that the staff does take decisions in a very discreet fashion. They do not care about players opinions, they are there to reach the goals they set (classic eq) and that's it.

If, given the certain amount of workw they see a merge of green/blue as beneficiary to the project, it will happen, regardless of the hurdles.

I'm pretty sure they'd be excited about a new server as well, especially one with race based PVP like VZ/TZ which is still an experience missing here.

It's very likely that a new p99 experience will happen in the next years.

Whether or not this involves green/blue to merge remains to be seen, even though it would make the most sense from a player base split perspective :

1x new progression server active

1x legacy server where players all end up

[cd288]

It does beg the question, if the devs are putting little to no effort on the current Green and Blue server, what are they spending their time on?

Have they taken a step back from P99 all together and just allocating little to no time to the project at all, or are they working on something behind the scenes like a merge or new server?

I've personally seen no indication from P99 staff that a merge or a new server are in the works are a part of their vision and to date the excessive amount of threads dedicated to this topic are just filled with speculation and projections of personal preferences.

probably, you know, their jobs and/or families....

[kaluppo]

Personally, I was happier before green went live. There was just enough players on Blue to make leveling in pickup groups relatively easy if you stuck to the popular zones. Then Green/Teal launched and at first it was cool. Then as the newness wore off the numbers dwindled and they had to merge green and teal. Then the numbers dwindled some more and finding groups started getting harder on both Green and Blue.

Now I know it will NEVER happen even before I say it. But if they patched Luclin onto Blue I could only imagine the people, myself included, that would flock back to the Blue server to get reacquainted with our lvl 60's that have been collecting dust for a few years.

[Master Roshi]

Wont happen til Riot decides its ok ;)

[Snaggles]

If they bother to merge them blue will still have 1/4th the population of Nome, Alaska. One of the least hospitable rural cities in the state.

Consequences? lol. Imagine upsetting the social balance of an EQ sim…

[Swish]

If they bother to merge them blue will still have 1/4th the population of Nome, Alaska. One of the least hospitable rural cities in the state.

Consequences? lol. Imagine upsetting the social balance of an EQ sim…

muh item value

[Calrizien]

merge blue and green onto red

[RobotGraveyard]

But then I won't be able to run 2 instances of P99 so I can raid on blue and green at the same time because I have mental problems.

[WarpathEQ]

I think you underestimate the amount of time necessary to just run the servers.

There is staff, petitions, etc this is not a small team and while it's likely they have it on back burner for now, it doesn't mean it's 0 work.


Its my understanding based on any communication I've seen from the staff that the Developers are sole and seperate from CSR which handle the day to day operations

[cd288]

Its my understanding based on any communication I've seen from the staff that the Developers are sole and seperate from CSR which handle the day to day operations

What is your point there? It's still a lot of work and Rogean/Nilbog will consider the impact on CSR of any decision they decide to make

[Pulgasari]

But then I won't be able to run 2 instances of P99 so I can raid on blue and green at the same time because I have mental problems.

Mean but I laughed

[WarpathEQ]

What is your point there? It's still a lot of work and Rogean/Nilbog will consider the impact on CSR of any decision they decide to make

My point is the time it takes to run the servers is not Dev time so all the things that CSR is doing is taking 0 time away from the Devs to work on Dev work. It was in direct response to the post I quoted linking the two together that the day to day CSR work was preventing dev work from happening.

There are different humans involved in CSR versus Dev what one human is spending time on does not take away from the other human's time.

[cd288]

My point is the time it takes to run the servers is not Dev time so all the things that CSR is doing is taking 0 time away from the Devs to work on Dev work. It was in direct response to the post I quoted linking the two together that the day to day CSR work was preventing dev work from happening.

There are different humans involved in CSR versus Dev what one human is spending time on does not take away from the other human's time.

I mean, okay but not sure how that's relevant.

The devs all have real life jobs and responsibilities. Shit I barely have time to play P99 due to RL...can't imagine how little time the devs have compared to the amount of dev work that's needed.

[nvidor]

Green was a crippling blow to blue. It made such a deep impact on the server and how its played. In the good ole blue days we use to be able to gear any class with in 30 minutes with pieces were specifically looking for. Now? It can take weeks to just gear 1 character with the specific items you desire. This is no exaggeration either. This is the truth of the matter.

Grouping is at an all time low unless your in the special circle of friends who plan to do things verse old school simply putting your lfg on. Zones that had a nice population now sit empty. While some may love it because they get all the pixels the fact is everquest revolved around the social aspect of the game. How it brought people from around the world together to meet and have fun. This aspect of the game is virtually gone.

It's hard out there as a player who has been around on p99 since the early 2010 days. When the server thrived when you met people daily. When you were able to actually sell an item and not spend days to weeks trying to sell it at a lower cost than listing prices sometimes.

Overall for me the launch of green was the nail in the head to the blue p99 killer. While it may look populated in reality a big portion of the servers online population in reality is only 3 guilds who may be raiding with a full force and a few casuals to fill the numbers.

Server is dead merge them.

Also red is dead let us move our red chars to blue. =)

[cd288]

While it may look populated in reality a big portion of the servers online population in reality is only 3 guilds who may be raiding with a full force and a few casuals to fill the numbers.

Just described both servers really. But yeah agreed I wish we could get a merge sometime soon. Would be nice to have a packed server again!

[Gustoo]

Merge for sure.

[spoil]

Merge.

:cool:

[magnetaress]

I would think that more players would flock to the new Green server to offset the numbers gained from the merge.

This. Yall would get new players. Old ones would stick around on blue or reroll on green.

It's not going to happen around the launch of Teek and Tormax tho.

[magnetaress]

merge blue and green onto red

Lol. Gr8 post from an angel 😇 account.

Thx for the smile Cal.

[Trexller]

Merge for sure.

[Sonark]

The whole point of Green was to merge with Blue at the end of its timeline.

And sure, it seems like they can't make a new Green and continue on again, but it's weird that the devs and the players bought into that fantasy of wanting to recreate the same pool after this game had like 8 years of Kunark

Even weirder they didn't predict the idea of people re-using character names for the new server, and all the problems that THAT brings

[nvidor]

While I do think they will eventually merge and start a new Green ("eventually" meaning anywhere from this year to a couple years down the road), this is probably right. While it might be relatively easy to merge servers, it's a lot of work for the staff to handle a larger player base on one server plus all the various classic changes they'd want to make for new Green that were discovered during the course of Green 1.0. Wish I knew how to do that coding stuff so I could help out haha

I think another commenter made a fair point of what do you do with the CSR who are on one server but play on another? Make them choose between playing or being CSR? Then you have to replace a bunch of CSR that quit? It's not an insurmountable issue, and I doubt it's why they haven't merged, but it is AN issue that you have to come up with a solution for, which isn't easy. Just another item of "work" for the staff.

For me having separate servers is more work than all being piled onto one. I can imagine mistakes were made down the line of someone trying to help someone on green but mistakenly was on blues db or vice versa.

If 250 people from green petition a ticket and 250 people from blue also petition a ticket in reality its the same exact work load just different servers.

As for some who questioned how characters with the same name could ever be merged this was a issue with Live EQ. All the staff had to do was make sure every new character to a server if the names match has an extra E attached to the end of it. This prevented the same names being used with exact spelling. So there tech is a way to do it if they chose to go down that route.

So if a character on green was named Xeon but that name has already been used on blue it would transfer the character as Xeone

[cd288]

nd sure, it seems like they can't make a new Green and continue on again, but it's weird that the devs and the players bought into that fantasy of wanting to recreate the same pool after this game had like 8 years of Kunark

Even weirder they didn't predict the idea of people re-using character names for the new server, and all the problems that THAT brings

In what world does it seem like they can't do that? They've already proven they know how to merge servers lol

Also what are you talking about with the names? They easily predicted that and made it so that you can only re-use the name if you have that name on another server on the same account you're using for Green. And when they merge the Green character gets an X added to its name (same thing they did on live back in the day if you transferred to a server where someone already had your name). They said all of this at Green launch where were you?

[Sonark]

In what world does it seem like they can't do that? They've already proven they know how to merge servers lolI thought it was in this thread, but I guess it's in the same thread in the Green server chat. Anyways:

The whole point that the gentleman's agreement with Sony not existing for Darkpaw, and Darkpaw saying "as long as they don't make any new servers"

It's not about knowing HOW Also what are you talking about with the names? They easily predicted that and made it so that you can only re-use the name if you have that name on another server on the same account you're using for Green. And when they merge the Green character gets an X added to its name (same thing they did on live back in the day if you transferred to a server where someone already had your name). They said all of this at Green launch where were you?Yeah man, everyone loves being Sonarkx, and Sonarkxx, and Sonarkxxx, and Sonarkxxxx and so on

[cd288]

I thought it was in this thread, but I guess it's in the same thread in the Green server chat. Anyways:

The whole point that the gentleman's agreement with Sony not existing for Darkpaw, and Darkpaw saying "as long as they don't make any new servers"

Oh? Do you have direct knowledge of this? Usually the way contractual agreements operate is that they are assigned to the acquiring company. There are also just simple realities, like Darkpaw probably isn't going to sue someone over like a 1-2k person server (not worth the time or legal fees), plus the possible defenses such as promissory estoppel that P99 could rely on to open new servers even if Darkpaw did try to void the contract.


It's not about knowing HOW Yeah man, everyone loves being Sonarkx, and Sonarkxx, and Sonarkxxx, and Sonarkxxxx and so on

Not sure what your malfunction is. If you don't like having an X after your name if the server merges, don't use the same name. That's on you.

[Sonark]

Usually the way contractual agreements operateThis would be really appropriately condescending if there was ever a contract. Not sure what your malfunction is. If you don't like having an X after your name if the server merges, don't use the same name. That's on you.I suppose.

[Trexller]

a merger would reduce the number of active emulator servers, so daybreak would be happy about that.

the only thing that makes sense is each servers heavyweights (most likely staff) don't want a merger.

P99 can't run without it's CSR staff, and those people want to actually play the game, but they can't play on the server where they are a GM

so 2 servers have to exist, in order for those people to have an opportunity to play

a merger means no staff can do the CSR job and still be able to play the game.

[Videri]

Dear Reader, you don’t have to believe any of this. Until there is a definitive announcement from P99 staff, it’s all just a bunch of forum posters like me posting whatever we think is likely, or wishing for whatever we want to happen. Nobody has proof (or they would have posted it).

You can pretty much believe what you want to believe, and hope for what you want to hope for.

I hope for a new server within a couple years. ��

[cd288]

This would be really appropriately condescending if there was ever a contract.

? Did you miss the part years ago where they said there is?

[cd288]

a merger means no staff can do the CSR job and still be able to play the game.

I see your point, although technically if they started a new Green staff could choose to CSR there and keep playing their old Green characters on Blue

[Toxigen]

a merger means no staff can do the CSR job and still be able to play the game.

they can play on red

[Jimjam]

The whole point of Green was to merge with Blue at the end of its timeline.

And sure, it seems like they can't make a new Green and continue on again, but it's weird that the devs and the players bought into that fantasy of wanting to recreate the same pool after this game had like 8 years of Kunark

Even weirder they didn't predict the idea of people re-using character names for the new server, and all the problems that THAT brings

Just keep slapping an ‘x’ on the end of the duplicate name until it is unique and permit a free name change.

[Sonark]

? Did you miss the part years ago where they said there is?

So far as I know, they just had a conversation and agreed to certain terms, but nothing was on paper, written in stone.

Sony doesn't own the EQ IP anymore, and now it would be Darkpaw's prerogative to either honour that verbal contract (or a written one, if such a thing exists) or to not do that, and apparently Darkpaw has said outright they don't care about p99 so long as they don't start another server.Just keep slapping an ‘x’ on the end of the duplicate name until it is unique and permit a free name change.

That's gonna be a lot of fun for the couple CSR people to have to do that for 800-1200 people every 2 years when the server rolls over and starts again.

[Videri]

So far as I know, they just had a conversation and agreed to certain terms, but nothing was on paper, written in stone.

Sony doesn't own the EQ IP anymore, and now it would be Darkpaw's prerogative to either honour that verbal contract (or a written one, if such a thing exists) or to not do that, and apparently Darkpaw has said outright they don't care about p99 so long as they don't start another server..

Do we have a link to either of these? The statement that P99 made a deal with whoever, and whatever Darkpaw games said with regard to P99? People keep talking about it, but I find it hard to believe them because I don’t know the source.

That's gonna be a lot of fun for the couple CSR people to have to do that for 800-1200 people every 2 years when the server rolls over and starts again.

If it’s any reassurance, they won’t have to do that manually. I’m sure there’s some process by which that can be automated.

[Sonark]

Do we have a link to either of these?Nope, but I'm in the same boat as you where I don't really know either way, so I go with "verbal agreement" over "they had their lawyers draw up some paperwork."If it’s any reassurance, they won’t have to do that manually. I’m sure there’s some process by which that can be automated.I'm sure, but do you know that?

[Videri]

No :)

[Trexller]

Do we have a link to either of these? The statement that P99 made a deal with whoever, and whatever Darkpaw games said with regard to P99?

Here you go,

We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC that formally recognizes Project 1999 as a fan based, not-for-profit, classic EverQuest emulation project. The agreement establishes the guidelines that we as a project must follow, but it will allow to us continue to update the game without risk of legal repercussions.

https://www.everquest.com/news/project-1999-daybreak

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191146

So what, if, and when P99 does anything is determined by what daybreak is currently doing. to get a frame of reference, check daybreak's EQ roadmap

https://www.everquest.com/news/eq-roadmap-2024

[Sonark]

Darkpaw Games are now the owners of the EQ IP.

Do you think Daybreak prioritized including their agreement with p99 when they sold it, or do you think they didn't give a shit, and Darkpaw has no reason to honour any contract the prior company had?

I saw the quote where Darkpaw said so long as p99 doesn't make any more servers, they don't much care what they do, and that's pretty much where we're at.

[Trexller]

Darkpaw is only a division of daybreak

Just their latest attempt to squeeze blood from a stone

[nvidor]

Darkpaw Games are now the owners of the EQ IP.

Do you think Daybreak prioritized including their agreement with p99 when they sold it, or do you think they didn't give a shit, and Darkpaw has no reason to honour any contract the prior company had?

I saw the quote where Darkpaw said so long as p99 doesn't make any more servers, they don't much care what they do, and that's pretty much where we're at.

So in reality if the contract strictly states something along the lines of not allowed to create any new servers then they simply just move all toons off green to blue. Then green remains and restarts. Everquest classic seasonal system. Server is fresh being without characters. Contract remains in place and is not broken. They said they cant start any new servers. Dunno if that contract covers can we just move everyone and restart this server.

[cd288]

Darkpaw Games are now the owners of the EQ IP.

Do you think Daybreak prioritized including their agreement with p99 when they sold it, or do you think they didn't give a shit, and Darkpaw has no reason to honour any contract the prior company had?

I saw the quote where Darkpaw said so long as p99 doesn't make any more servers, they don't much care what they do, and that's pretty much where we're at.

Ok so as a lawyer let me clarify something. My first point was going to be that an IP owner would never do a "verbal" agreement, there's always be a written contract, but we've clarified that one exists so put that to the side.

There's no "prioritizing including the agreement". Usually contracts, especially IP contracts, will have a provision that clarifies the agreement goes with whoever the IP gets assigned to in the future...this is important clarity both for the party who is getting the ability to use the IP (i.e., P99) but especially important for the party allowing the IP to be used (Daybreak/Darkpaw) because you'll want to ensure that if you assign your business to another company that that company maintains the ability to enforce the provisions of the contract about their IP.

As I've mentioned previously, there are also various defenses that P99 could employ should Darkpaw ever try to not honor the contractual agreement.

As for your last point, you claim you've "seen" this quote yet you also freely admitted in this thread that you can't provide a link to/source for it. So I think we can throw that quote in the trash at this point unless someone has a link to an official communication from Darkpaw.

[Jimjam]

As for your last point, you claim you've "seen" this quote yet you also freely admitted in this thread that you can't provide a link to/source for it. So I think we can throw that quote in the trash at this point unless someone has a link to an official communication from Darkpaw.

We’ve got plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.

[spoil]

Regardless of any deal, they would go after Quarm first. The biggest guild on Quarm is a TLP guild. There's a lot of crossover there with live players, that server is in direct competition with DBG's product.