Dark elf mages and COTH

[sajbert]

Which places specifically can a dark elf (male or female?) not COTH at without being shrunk? I find that they're rather small as is and often can hide in places together with gnomes where other races can't.

[Balimon]

I'm not sure what you're asking, dark elves need to shrink to drop eyes just like the other medium/large races. Are you talking about hiding spots? Can't think of any in that case.

[enjchanter]

Which places specifically can a dark elf (male or female?) not COTH at without being shrunk? I find that they're rather small as is and often can hide in places together with gnomes where other races can't.

The answer to your question is literally all places in all of the game.

Not shrunk and not gnome = no coth

[Videri]

It’s not about hiding. The small size of the Gnome model (or any sufficiently shrunken player) lets your character clip through walls far enough that summoning an Eye of Zomm causes it to appear inside the wall, fall out of bounds, and be automatically returned to the zone’s succor point. Then you can click on people who just entered the zone, invite them to your group, and Call of the Hero them.

If your mage is going to become a cothbot, it needs to be a Gnome or stocked with shrink potions. But depending on the frequency of use, you might need to restock frequently. Just go Gnome.

[Toxigen]

How on earth would coth have been used otherwise? lol

[Crede]

It’s not about hiding. The small size of the Gnome model (or any sufficiently shrunken player) lets your character clip through walls far enough that summoning an Eye of Zomm causes it to appear inside the wall, fall out of bounds, and be automatically returned to the zone’s succor point. Then you can click on people who just entered the zone, invite them to your group, and Call of the Hero them.

If your mage is going to become a cothbot, it needs to be a Gnome or stocked with shrink potions. But depending on the frequency of use, you might need to restock frequently. Just go Gnome.

Is this classic? The eye warp

[Crede]

Which places specifically can a dark elf (male or female?) not COTH at without being shrunk? I find that they're rather small as is and often can hide in places together with gnomes where other races can't.

Load up on shrink pots and enjoy being a boss and not a gnome like every other mage.

[Duik]

Fuck there is some cheaty fucking exploits in this game. As the game morphed the best way a COTH mage can be useful is to literally cheat.
Congratz, 'sploit away people.
Also, gratz on even thinking of it.
Dunno of im impressed or depressed.

[Videri]

How on earth would coth have been used otherwise? lol

I think maybe he didn’t know about the wall-eyeball thing.

Is this classic? The eye warp

I don’t know if it’s classic, but it might be. The point is that if you somehow go out of bounds, the game puts you back in a “safe” spot.

[Videri]

I guess the question is, is Gnomish wall vision classic? If so, then this probably is. Both mechanics work via clipping through the infinitesimally thin virtual walls of EQ zones.

What some call an exploit, others call emergent gameplay.

[Toxigen]

I think maybe he didn’t know about the wall-eyeball thing.



no i mean as the spell was originally designed without the wall drop

[7thGate]

Originally, you would have needed to get the mage in a group for CotHing purposes. In most cases, you could send a Rogue over to do the invite and create an anchor, so it wouldn't really change all that much in most cases. It would put a damper on CotHing up to Triplets though.

[Crede]

Originally, you would have needed to get the mage in a group for CotHing purposes. In most cases, you could send a Rogue over to do the invite and create an anchor, so it wouldn't really change all that much in most cases. It would put a damper on CotHing up to Triplets though.

It would be game changing in the group scene. You could get more rogue bots but that takes time and you’d also need at least 3 people to do it in order to keep the group in tact.

[Toxigen]

ah right, forgot about anchors

been a while

[fortior]

no i mean as the spell was originally designed without the wall drop

you can in theory use it to break aggro, some people farm juggs that way without a monk to pull

[7thGate]

you can in theory use it to break aggro, some people farm juggs that way without a monk to pull


True, Rogue+Mage is actually a pretty good pull team contribution. Have 340 range to start pulls, and can start a pull from any location safely. Can also just run through groups safely during a trainout unless the stuff you're training has a long enough ranged cast to break hide+sneak.

[enjchanter]

60 epic mage LF juggs

[Videri]

no i mean as the spell was originally designed without the wall drop

Indeed. It seems the eyeball-wall-drop mechanic, though probably unintended, completes Call of the Hero as a tool, and adds a unique and vital ability to the magician. Also, Eye of Zomm is 99% useless except for this application. And lucky for us, the magician can cast both spells natively.

Like, it might all be accident and coincidence, but it’s great game design. Some “bugs” are good for the game and best left in. Just like FD pulling, as another poster mentioned above.

[Toxigen]

60 epic mage LF juggs

call of the Poop Mountain Hero

[fortior]

Indeed. It seems the eyeball-wall-drop mechanic, though probably unintended, completes Call of the Hero as a tool, and adds a unique and vital ability to the magician. Also, Eye of Zomm is 99% useless except for this application. And lucky for us, the magician can cast both spells natively.

Like, it might all be accident and coincidence, but it’s great game design. Some “bugs” are good for the game and best left in. Just like FD pulling, as another poster mentioned above.

This is why 'useless' or 'flavor' spells/abilities are cool. As a game dev you are running on deadlines and have limited means to test/future proof interactions, so you can't explore the whole game design space by just making things that work, and only work, as intended

[enjchanter]

Coth as a spell is like fundamentally broken if eyeball drop doesn't exist imo

[Toxigen]

Coth as a spell is like fundamentally broken if eyeball drop doesn't exist imo

Pretty much this. Would be interesting though with an army of rogue anchor bots.

[enjchanter]

OR

they could allow the spell to be useful and jjst allot ppl to use the invite command without a target. Literally no reason this shouldn't be enabled

[Ruien]

There's a technique called cothlinking. Suppose you have a coth mage parked at trips and some cothlinker (who is able to bind and gate) also camped in the same spot. The cothlinker is bound at TOV entrance in WW.

The cothlinker logs in and invites the mage, then gates to entrance, zones in, anchors for the mage. Finally, the cothlinker gets cothed back to trips and camps. In fact this technique was used for a long time in Kael to coth from WL since the eyeball spot is on EW side.

As for gnome wallvision being classic, the answer is yes. My character during EQ beta was a gnome, and i actually switched from gnome to another race because I found wallvision to feel uncomfortable and buggy. Had no idea at the time it was actually the best racial.

I agree though that the eyeball trick is really great and feels like it completes the mage coth toolset.

[Videri]

Wow. Very cool info!! So this “cothlinker” technique could be used on a server where eyeball-wall-drop doesn’t work, or in a zone where the safe point is somewhere kther than where you want it to be. Clever.

[enjchanter]

or they could literally just let you invite ppl with the /invite command and not require them to be targeted and then you dont have to level an entire character just link the group