How bad are mages solo in level-appropriate dungeons?

[zelld52]

Mage is one of the few classes I've never played.

I've done Necro solo to 60, strictly charming 40-60. I've done Enc solo to 58, strictly charming 29ish - 58.

Have done both of these classes solo in challenging places, ie: dungeons. Enchanter obviously had a much broader range of viable dungeons - but the Necro was really efficient in certain places.

I know Mage won't stack up to either of these two, but I got the hankering to play a mage. Don't plan on pushing all the way to 60 (Unless I fall in love), but would like to log in for a few hours per week when I can squeeze time in to play.

Can mage do appropriate level dungeons without waiting 5 mins between fights? I wouldn't mind burning a mana bar over 10 minutes and AFK for 5-10..

Not gonna get a manastone or anything, but maybe some other HP regen items and a FT1. Would that matter? Or not really?

What do ya'll think, can a mage log in for 30 minutes, burn a mana bar killing consitently in a dungeon for 20 mins then afk for 5-10 while medding bck to full before logging again?

[enjchanter]

in a dungeon probably not , youll need a spot where you can get singles

[PatChapp]

Depends on the dungeon really. Can do ok in najena, where mobs mostly come single or double. If you have a spot to kite the second mob mages do fine, after that level range your kind of delegated to soloing in outdoor zones.

[patrick210]

Yeah outdoor zones forsure, or singles / double spots. Just get used to chain summoning pets. or Use earth root to CC.

Mage solo is worth it if you play smart.

Earth pet + DS and nukes when ya need. /Pet go away in a hot key for when chain summoning $$

Don't heal pets unless it's dire, just summon another one.

[loramin]

Not gonna get a manastone or anything, but maybe some other HP regen items and a FT1. Would that matter? Or not really?

FT1 is one mana per tick, or ten per minute. Ten extra mana per minute will not make a meaningful difference.

What do ya'll think, can a mage log in for 30 minutes, burn a mana bar killing consitently in a dungeon for 20 mins then afk for 5-10 while medding bck to full before logging again?

Absolutely, but as others have said, it depends on the dungeon. However, in general I think you're going to want to XP outdoors: if you look at the Mage spots on https://wiki.project1999.com/Per-Level_Hunting_Guide, you'll notice very few are in dungeons.

[Snaggles]

Past about Sol B dogs I can’t see it. Find single spawns or break like HK nobles with a root net and stay on top of them.

Crawling without CC or tricks is dodgy. I still love the mage and would push one to 60, just in a more boring way.

[silo32]

Epic mage peak dungeon crawling is pretty much droga.

Hard pill to swallow.

[Toxigen]

no

[Andyman1022]

terri-bad

[Jimjam]

When soloing with a mage you need to remember that the one doing the work is a melee, not a caster.

In other words you need to be chain killing single mobs which are just above the lowest xp threshold.

It isn’t like nec/enc/shaman where you potentially solo a room of yellows.

Or so I’ve been advised.

[Vexenu]

The sad truth is that Mage soloing is much closer to Warrior soloing than it is Necro/Ench soloing. Straight up tank and spank one mob at a time, with no CC and little room for error when pulling. Obviously, this playstyle does not lend itself well to solo dungeon crawling, and I would recommend very modest expectations in that regard.

[Toxigen]

The last spell you cast on a mage is either gate (because you're done trying to make a crappy class work) or COTH.

[Jimjam]

The sad truth is that Mage soloing is much closer to Warrior soloing than it is Necro/Ench soloing. Straight up tank and spank one mob at a time, with no CC and little room for error when pulling. Obviously, this playstyle does not lend itself well to solo dungeon crawling, and I would recommend very modest expectations in that regard.

At least the opportunity cost for jumping the zoneline is cheap for war.

Mage has to recreate pet! :’(

[Ruien]

Unfortunately, mages were hit hard by the root net recharge nerf, essentially as collateral damage as this nerf had nothing to do with mages being overpowered. This pretty much ended what solo viability they had. Back when (1) root nets could be cheaply recharged, and (2) solo pet aggro did not transfer to the caster, mages used to actually be quite viable solo in dungeons. After the pet aggro transfer change but before the root net nerf, they were still serviceable. Now the only real way for mages to solo is by aggro kiting singles outdoors, not dungeon crawling.

[Snaggles]

Hmm I soloed to 60 with ease and not a single root net click. Crystalline silks still work fine since casters have skill in Channeling. They are just more parachutes than constant use items.

[Crede]

Y’all thinking too far into this. Mage can destroy mobs solo. So if you need some help splitting just log in your pocket cleric/enc to do the lulls. If ya don’t have one then get one leveled up first and bonus if you get a buddy to log in your cleric in which case mage/cleric will torch mobs. Regardless the torch focused pre 50 fire pets can you to 55 with ease just blow up adds if needed occasionally. 55+ if you want to be more than a coth both then either make an alt to help with lulls even though you can hit 60 without needing one or just find some people to group with.

[Ripqozko]

Y’all thinking too far into this. Mage can destroy mobs solo. So if you need some help splitting just log in your pocket cleric/enc to do the lulls. If ya don’t have one then get one leveled up first and bonus if you get a buddy to log in your cleric in which case mage/cleric will torch mobs. Regardless the torch focused pre 50 fire pets can you to 55 with ease just blow up adds if needed occasionally. 55+ if you want to be more than a coth both then either make an alt to help with lulls even though you can hit 60 without needing one or just find some people to group with.

Damn crede became DSM with his pocket characters. Who would of thought.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Damn crede became DSM with his pocket characters. Who would of thought.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3610378&postcount=6

Level a cleric and have people log it in as needed. I have an epic cleric that’s been 54 since 2014 and he has done countless rezzes. Just a phenomenal class that everyone should have at least one of.

Crede has always agreed with me. He's had a pocket cleric since 2014. Sadly people on these forums prefer to go with the crowd instead of telling people the truth. There was no reason for him to randomly disagree with me on this point. Pocket characters are a common thing on P99. Its been that way for years.

[Duik]

Having an epiced pocket cleric (or any class for thay matter) is not in any way normal. It's a symptom of large guilds' ability to cycle through content and epic alts for the good of the collective.
Like socialism or communism really.
Make an alt to log into to make "soloing a mage/warrior/rog etc" easier. Is it still soloing? Nvm.

One of us make a lvl 54 cleric alt with epic. Most normals dont have a main epic let alone a rarely used situational alt having one. But this is a game so do it how yas want. Just dont call it normal.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Having an epiced pocket cleric (or any class for thay matter) is not in any way normal. It's a symptom of large guilds' ability to cycle through content and epic alts for the good of the collective.
Like socialism or communism really.
Make an alt to log into to make "soloing a mage/warrior/rog etc" easier. Is it still soloing? Nvm.

One of us make a lvl 54 cleric alt with epic. Most normals dont have a main epic let alone a rarely used situational alt having one. But this is a game so do it how yas want. Just dont call it normal.

Nobody said anything about needing a Cleric Epic to make a pocket Cleric.

You just need to get to level 49 for the 90% res, just meditate a little bit.

The reality is this box has been up for so long most people have alts at this point, and people are making guild bots all the time.

Sorry, but that is the truth. It isn't difficult to make a pocket cleric when you can make free accounts, and leveling from 1-49 is a breeze.

[enjchanter]

i am selling cleric epics for your pocket clerics plz dm me to schedule the mq

[Zuranthium]

Mages absolutely can solo well in appropriate dungeon locations, or at least they are supposed to be able to; pets transferring full aggro when dying is not classic and needs to be fixed on P99. When chain-summoning pets, the new pet is supposed to take the aggro immediately if you weren't nuking the target beforehand.

That said, I soloed the Mistmoore graveyard back in 1999 with no root nets and without chain summoning. Other spots can be soloed like that too as a Mage. Careful planning and making sure to not over-aggro is important.

Without chain summoning working you'll be limited to areas where there's never more than 2 NPC's aggroing at a time (unless they are trash NPC's), but with chain summoning it's possible to break areas where 3 or 4 aggro at a time. The level 49 pets are very mana efficient, for 200 mana (less with specialization) you get to keep throwing a full HP melee into the pile; earth pet generally works best for the purpose of breaking a camp.

[Toxigen]

If you're trying to solo dungeons just play a different class.

[Zuranthium]

You don't seem to understand that people enjoy playing different things, or have already chosen a particular class and want to keep putting time into that character.

[Toxigen]

You don't seem to understand that people enjoy playing different things, or have already chosen a particular class and want to keep putting time into that character.

Those people need to understand they better have a buddy enc/nec/cleric/bard/shaman/druid/paladin to come along if they aren't trying to receive a lesson in futility.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You don't seem to understand that people enjoy playing different things, or have already chosen a particular class and want to keep putting time into that character.

Honestly that isn't the problem. People are simply pointing out that Mages are generally a weak class on P99 in the server's current state. Knowledge is power. Let people know what the strengths/weaknesses are of each class objectively speaking. Then they can decide whether or not those strengths/weaknesses will affect their enjoyment of the game.

If you enjoy playing a Mage, it doesn't matter if the class is objectively weaker than other classes. I think Mages are a fun class to be honest. Pets are fun to use in Everquest. A person who really enjoys a specific class will push the limits of the class, and let other people know what the class can do. If someone wants a class that can do more, they will not pick Mage.

[Crede]

Those people need to understand they better have a buddy enc/nec/cleric/bard/shaman/druid/paladin to come along if they aren't trying to receive a lesson in futility.

It depends.

Mages can solo crawl almost any dungeon sub 50. Esp if you add in a zheart. If you know where to go it’s actually pretty easy with their op focused pets. 50+ though is a different beast literally just find any class that can root or a bard and you’re good as you highlighted above.

It’s a damn shame though that root nets recharge was blown up and mage pet aggro is jacked. Would be an entirely different story with those 2 things actually classic.

[Troxx]

When soloing mage 50+ I considered my pet a dot that soaked damage. Cheap cost summon. Clicky haste and clicky DS it. Pull a mob (assuming solo pull) and reclaim pet when the mob is low and toss a low level nuke the last bit. Pet generally survives without actual help letting you med through and break even after reclaim. If it’s a harder mob, toss a nuke or 2 so mob dies before pet bites it ... reclaim etc etc. harder mobs obligates some down time.

Very viable. Not terribly inefficient. And you get a mob dead for a lot less mana than some other casters. Is it great? Nah. Can you “dungeon crawl” level appropriate content 50+? Nah? Is it decent xp while you wait for a group? Absolutely.

Like Tox said … grab a partner or 3. Mages are very powerful in groups. For what they do well, few do it better.

Solo? Not so much, but still viable if you pick your hunting grounds carefully.

[Snaggles]

Again, aside from the aggro transfer thing (which is more a guideline than a rule...its not 100%), mages are pretty bad at crawling.

A. You cant crawl with a pet
B. You cant really heal the pet at a scaling level
C. No CC (or splitting spells) outside root nets and earth pet
D. Just general mana issues, health issues, and NPC scaling

I love the mage, I have one whos 60 with some of the toys. ToV trains, group dps (non raid). It's very fun and not necessarily "weak". It's a point-and-shoot soloer though. Burn downs are necessary so its best to find single spawns. Or using as little mana as possible and poofing the pet, clean up nuking the low health mob.

I personally like the class more than the necro and have one of those too. You can't compare the two though, not in the slightest. One's basically a hybrid in it's trick bag, one is hyper specific.

[Zuranthium]

You can crawl with a pet. Just need to be sure to keep it close if there's going to be weird pathing in an area. It's no big deal to just reclaim it and summon another anyway, already have to do that to invis through an area.

Not having CC isn't relevant if you've chosen a correct path to crawl and play perfectly. The pet is the CC, you should never be getting into a situation where you can't beat a specific group of MOBs. Chain summoning not working correctly unfortunately limits the places a Mage can crawl, but normally there are plenty of things that can be done solo.

Lull spells being overpowered on p99 also distorts things. Enchanters were not getting so many free rides through areas in classic EQ by trying to lull through. Critical resists were far more common.

[Snaggles]

What are you referring to? Past like SolB no mage is crawling anywhere with blues.

Also CC or lull is only needed when you can pull solos so you better pick a brilliant path or just avoid some places completely. Earth pet as CC? Lol ok. That 3 tick OP root proc.

Even if you had perfect chain summoning ability a mage would get smashed in any real dungeon. Outside factioning with Chardok and walking up to a few very easy spawns that can be killed.

[Zuranthium]

I didn't say earth pet as CC, I said pet. If there are 2-4 MOBs being pulled together, a chain-summoned pet continually takes all the aggro, in actual classic EQ and in previous eras of p99. I don't know off the top of my head exactly when aggro transfer became broken on p99.

The earth pet CC is sufficient enough in some cases though. It does enough to prevent a runner and in some situations it can allow chain-summoning to still work with the broken aggro transfer mechanic, since the primary target will be rooted and extra MOBs should still aggro on the pet if you're standing far enough back, since those MOBs shouldn't have taken any aggro damage yet and the pet will take the proximity aggro.

[Snaggles]

Looking forward to your Seb crawl vid.

[Vivitron]

It's weird to me that aggro doesn't transfer from bard charm breaks* but does for mage pet swaps -- does aggro transfer for both pet dismissal and pet death or just one of them?

(If you charm down a Cliff Golem on a bard, which involves a couple dozen charm breaks, at the end the charm pet still pulls aggro on the first swing.)

Anyway if mages can convince staff to reverse the recharge cost nerf to root nets that would probably be pretty fun for my bard too.

[Snaggles]

It's not 100% transfer. Phinny kill for example...one epic mage pet, one lvl 49 mage pet, one shaman pet. If Phinny kills the epic pet the second highest hate would only be about half of the epic. Yet, epic mage will not get summoned unless the other two pets die as well.

Another example, if you do 90% of the damage and kill your pet and someone does 10% they will get the xp. They just have to overcome a bit of aggro you built in. It's not 90% though.

So rule of thumb but not a legitimate 100% transfer.

[wuanahto]

Getting to level 4 will be your biggest challenge
The willpower to level up Blacksmithing so you can make Banded Armor will be your second hurdle. Armor helps pets. Your fire pets will be king.
Damage shield damage is "neutral", you have a chance to outdamage your fire pet. or you can eat the 50% exp loss like a champ and soak up more cash
Use stamina/health gear because more often than naught you have to tank for your pet. RNG can still fuck a max level and max* geared fire pet. Phantom armors now makes more sense.
Your level 1 nuke is a good pulling tool

Level 4-16, blackburrow
16-20, crushbone castle, you can push it to 22-24 because the throne+tower will still give exp.
20-29, mistmoore. will be rough at first but at level 24 or so you will be king of the pond
29-34, highkeep goblins
34-39, unrest basement. 38/39 will be slow but steady
39-42ish, i turned my brain off and camped the ancient croc in uguk for like a week while i played other games 16 minutes at a time
42-49, gornit. 42-44 you might have to help your pet out with hit trading but 44 is a new pet.
49-55ish seafuries AND gornit. i stopped around there.

[Crede]

Getting to level 4 will be your biggest challenge
The willpower to level up Blacksmithing so you can make Banded Armor will be your second hurdle. Armor helps pets. Your fire pets will be king.
Damage shield damage is "neutral", you have a chance to outdamage your fire pet. or you can eat the 50% exp loss like a champ and soak up more cash
Use stamina/health gear because more often than naught you have to tank for your pet. RNG can still fuck a max level and max* geared fire pet. Phantom armors now makes more sense.
Your level 1 nuke is a good pulling tool

Level 4-16, blackburrow
16-20, crushbone castle, you can push it to 22-24 because the throne+tower will still give exp.
20-29, mistmoore. will be rough at first but at level 24 or so you will be king of the pond
29-34, highkeep goblins
34-39, unrest basement. 38/39 will be slow but steady
39-42ish, i turned my brain off and camped the ancient croc in uguk for like a week while i played other games 16 minutes at a time
42-49, gornit. 42-44 you might have to help your pet out with hit trading but 44 is a new pet.
49-55ish seafuries AND gornit. i stopped around there.

Good post. The torched fire pet is a beast and can easily take you to 55. Maybe even 60. You want to pull with an actual nuke though, because the pet can just rip aggro pretty easily after that. Then I’d do another one and the ds was enough to give me full xp. Prob the easiest class I’ve ever leveled to 55.

[NPC]

I solo'ed a Mage to 60 on P99. You can most definitely dungeon crawl, but at higher levels the clicky staff from Chardok is essential.
When soloing always use your earth pets, they have the most Hp's and if you get adds you can malo and use the earth pet root to help split mobs. But some mobs are more susceptible to that than others. I was using that tactic into the 50's in Karnor Castle, Lower guk. My mage could take 3-4 mobs at once if I was nuking and splitting right with malo + pet roots. My 40's I could solo the mid level spawns in Lower guk, like the Sage room has 4 mobs and I would just burn them down with a pet up. Ya it was sometimes close fights, but you can do it. 50+ I could solo anything but the Ghoul Lord. But the best exp on the server is Permafrost Bear pits, I was soloing those 50-60. With the clicky staff your down time is minimal too, I would routinely get free 2k-3k dmg a mob. With clicky staff, malo root with my earth pet an clicky till it breaks back up and do it again. I could lock down half of the bear pits by myself, plenty of solo mobs there if your smart.
The Hole, I could solo the entrance to the pit, although it would sometimes take some janky kill and then zoning. The Mage 49 focused Earth pet is probably one of the best summoned pets in the game due to the HP's (up to 2800), casting root, but most importantly only 300 mana casting cost. At 60 you can regen 300 mana in a little over 2 min, combine that with free clicky dmg and you can virtually non stop kill mobs in zones like Karnors at full mana. Making sure on the killing blow you dismiss your pet and get full XP btw. Which cannot be done with the Hotkey either, you can kill your pet the instant before you spells go off. So you can be casting a killing blow to get full XP or making a new pet to keep mobs busy. That's the real trick to unlock the mages true power. Before they nerfed it, you could cast clickies while medding, then as the casting timer finished if you stood in time the spells would go off. My Burnt Wood clicky staff would cast for 13.5 seconds I would immediately sit med for that many ticks, stand for a moment, let it go off, click it again and sit back down. It was pretty broke. Free 333 damage while medding. I used to wait on spawns at the bear pits.
Here's the spawns I used to level-
Najena 8-15
South karana hermit 17-22 (4 min spawn)
South Karana Treants 23-35 (4 min spawn) - hurts druid ring faction and Queynos Faction
East Karana Guards 34-47 (East Karana guards are higher level then North and West)
High keep Nobles 48-54
Bear pits 51-60

[NPC]

I didn't say earth pet as CC, I said pet. If there are 2-4 MOBs being pulled together, a chain-summoned pet continually takes all the aggro, in actual classic EQ and in previous eras of p99. I don't know off the top of my head exactly when aggro transfer became broken on p99.
.

Chain pulling was nerfed 6 months after Green launched.

[Bulzie]

I have 60 epic mage, you cannot dungeon crawl unless it is in say a 30-40 level zone. If you get 2 blue mobs on epic pet it will take alot of damange, usually have to nuke some. 3 and you have to nuke alot. I have free DD boots which helps. The aggro transfer was the game changer and put us out of sustained solo business. Mages still fun to play, just more limited now.

[enjchanter]

Your epic pet can solo jacker with no burnout, nukes or heals

Hope this helps

[svelto]

Getting to level 4 will be your biggest challenge
The willpower to level up Blacksmithing so you can make Banded Armor will be your second hurdle. Armor helps pets. Your fire pets will be king.
Damage shield damage is "neutral", you have a chance to outdamage your fire pet. or you can eat the 50% exp loss like a champ and soak up more cash
Use stamina/health gear because more often than naught you have to tank for your pet. RNG can still fuck a max level and max* geared fire pet. Phantom armors now makes more sense.
Your level 1 nuke is a good pulling tool

Level 4-16, blackburrow
16-20, crushbone castle, you can push it to 22-24 because the throne+tower will still give exp.
20-29, mistmoore. will be rough at first but at level 24 or so you will be king of the pond
29-34, highkeep goblins
34-39, unrest basement. 38/39 will be slow but steady
39-42ish, i turned my brain off and camped the ancient croc in uguk for like a week while i played other games 16 minutes at a time
42-49, gornit. 42-44 you might have to help your pet out with hit trading but 44 is a new pet.
49-55ish seafuries AND gornit. i stopped around there.

My mage is only 52ish but never really had good luck with the fire pet beyond low levels. I don't doubt you at all, because I've I've heard about the benefits of the fire pet for a long time. I haven't used any iteration since maybe 12, so your post makes me want to experiment again - only in certain scenarios of course. I must be the oddest mage on the server.

[Jimjam]

on the subject of fire pets, I was watching a mage use king DDD firepet in solb on bnb/ldc and it was amazing how consistently it was hitting for 42 (max).

The attached screenshot was pretty typical for its melee > 85% max hits.

I’ve heard plenty of people doss the ddd, but wow that is a high percentage of max hits.

[Troxx]

DDD has some good situational uses. It’s a warrior and has pretty huge hp, very strong DS and a nice short range aoe. Melee dmg output takes a hit but between the large hp, ds, and aoe it can be pretty good for use solo or in a duo situation where your pet is tanking.

[Snaggles]

For all intent and purposes DDD is a stop-gap between the 49 and 57 earth pet. Depending on course if you don’t need the control of the root. There is probably a black belt justifier here in the boards who will explain how it’s the dark horse…but I’m inclined not to believe it.

There is a serious lull between level 49 and 57. Keep pushing and pick easy single targets to chew up.

[Troxx]

You could make the case that the short range aoe it has (dd + 100 hate) is better for mage than the root effect.

[Jimjam]

You could make the case that the short range aoe it has (dd + 100 hate) is better for mage than the root effect.

The conversation previously considered mage to solo more like a melee than a caster. SolDungB is a popular spot for melees. e.g warriors reliably solo LDC by 57. A cycle of 3 solo LDC plus bnbs exists. Due to proximity to other camps no root is needed. DDD are shown to be very effective at DPSing LDC/bats/beetles (see chart for a small compile of SB/LB/LDC fights 'Lasagna').

Admittedly better spots for a magician must exist at 56. This does seem low risk viable though. It seems suited to a mage inclined to muck about with DDD.

[Snaggles]

DDD is less dps than a focused 49 earth; I recall it being not by much. The 57 is a different league.

The class has no control spells outside nukes and clickies. Soloing to 60, anecdotally I didn’t see a bump in kill speed and just went back to the 49 earth in most situations.

There is no reason to use it at all at 57. Some spells are just duds. At least it isn’t as bad as Rage of Zomm.

[Jimjam]

Ah, so the reliability of scoring max hits shown by the DDD is undermined by how low the max hit is compared to focused 49 earth? That is a bit of a shame! I think I got blinded by the how strong a peak the frequency of max hits was for DDD and overlooked it's mediocre max hit...

Is the 49 focused earth similarly effective at scoring max hits?

[Snaggles]

It must be. I basically killed one thing for 5 levels. Even max summons the difference in how much I had to help the pet was very close.

[Toxigen]

yeah soloing as a mage sounds awful

[Troxx]

It ain’t much more fun than it sounds.

Doable, but less flexible or efficient than any other caster other than maybe cleric.

[PatChapp]

I didnt hate it back when I was working from home. Sit on a 6 or 8 min spawn and click a few buttons before you tab over. Boring but a good enough distraction.

[Troxx]

Oh yeah certainly. And at low levels mages are amazing solo. They just fizzle out in this capacity at higher levels (solo specifically).

[arnoldnashwel]

you're not gonna be sitting pretty with mana to spare all the time. It's more about managing what you've got. Think of it as a mana diet - you've gotta make every bit count! And hey, if you need to AFK for a bit to med up, that's just a great excuse to grab a snack, right? 🍕
So, can a mage have a fun solo dungeon run for about 30 minutes? Absolutely! It might not be a walk in the park, but where's the fun in that? Just pick your battles wisely, keep that pet on its toes, and who knows, you might just find yourself falling in love with the mage life.

[Balimon]

DDD is useful for level 56 but generally once you get 57 earth that's the pet people go with. It's such a big step up in power. That's not to say that DDD isn't useful, because it is, it's a solid little pet. Unfortunately with the way mob HP scales by the time you get DDD you'll need two of them to finish off a 5-6K HP mob whereas the 57 earth can handle them with just one.

As far as LDC's go, that's a fun camp for mages, it's possible to split either room as well. Can do 4-5 LDC's per cycle comfortably.

I solo in dungeons on my mage characters at level all the time , but like others have said we're not talking about Seb crawling, post 50 the possibilities start to dry up.

[Troxx]

DOH WRONG THREAD~!

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