Argent Protector or Herbalists Spade for ranger 2h

[jgold16]

Title basically says it. For my 53 ranger, deciding between an Argent Protector (https://wiki.project1999.com/Argent_Protector) and Herbalist's Spade (https://wiki.project1999.com/Herbalist%27s_Spade).

Pros to the AP: higher delay which is good for extra bow damage, cheaper. Pros to spade: better ratio, shovel, free root (which could be bad when soloing and the mob would otherwise flee). Help me decide tree bros.

Yes I know epics should be what I'm using. But I am a filthy casual.

[long.liam]

Title basically says it. For my 53 ranger, deciding between an Argent Protector (https://wiki.project1999.com/Argent_Protector) and Herbalist's Spade (https://wiki.project1999.com/Herbalist%27s_Spade).

Pros to the AP: higher delay which is good for extra bow damage, cheaper. Pros to spade: better ratio, shovel, free root (which could be bad when soloing and the mob would otherwise flee). Help me decide tree bros.

Yes I know epics should be what I'm using. But I am a filthy casual.

Get a https://wiki.project1999.com/Woodsman%27s_Staff. Cheaper than Herbalist spade, but higher ratio than the Argent Protector. Also looks unique/cool, at least I think it's cool. I like to role play that my Ranger is a raving lunatic running around hitting people with a large stick, but I'm weird like that.

[long.liam]

Title basically says it. For my 53 ranger, deciding between an Argent Protector (https://wiki.project1999.com/Argent_Protector) and Herbalist's Spade (https://wiki.project1999.com/Herbalist%27s_Spade).

Pros to the AP: higher delay which is good for extra bow damage, cheaper. Pros to spade: better ratio, shovel, free root (which could be bad when soloing and the mob would otherwise flee). Help me decide tree bros.

Yes I know epics should be what I'm using. But I am a filthy casual.

For bow dmg though I just use a https://wiki.project1999.com/Rusty_Halberd. Switch it out when I want to hit harder with my bow.

[Snaggles]

AP only gives up a nice long duration root and about 5% ratio for a fraction of the cost. It also has stats.

Bow fighting you have a better damage damage and better jousts on root breaks.

Meleeing it’s the same skill as the swarmcaller so no need to train both skills.

Low health snared stuff often still flees which will save hundreds of hps than if rooted. For select mobs fear kiting remains an option.

Fighting casters DS’s add up. The AP will cost you less hps due to less swings. Also you tend to burn down npc’s like Dyrna with casts of Firestrike. The spell alone is 65dps and some high delay melee hits synergize well. Only with spell haste and low delay weapons these nukes lose their steam. Or when you run out of mana. 6 mins of meddling will get you this back before the respawn.

[Troxx]

Am using AP on my Ranger (now 40) and loving it.

-Woodsman staff is slightly better ratio and melee dmg bonus per unit time factoring in delays but more expensive, no stats, and worse for bow.
-Herbalist spade is great but pricey, no stats … and it’s a shovel.

So yeah AP is better with bow, has stats, and costs 1/4th to 1/6th the other two.

The blunts will do marginally more melee dps.

[Crede]

get herb spade. PE is better than any root you get by far. And you’ll need it to proc and heal yourself during combat since rangers can’t tank for shit. Anybody who says anything different hasn’t been playing a Ranger at high levels. Obviously if your only goal is to fear kite then don’t get it but otherwise do get it.

[long.liam]

get herb spade. PE is better than any root you get by far. And you’ll need it to proc and heal yourself during combat since rangers can’t tank for shit. Anybody who says anything different hasn’t been playing a Ranger at high levels. Obviously if your only goal is to fear kite then don’t get it but otherwise do get it.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. Ranger heals suck. Its more efficient to fear kite or Root Rot with the Bow than to trying to rely on healing in between each root. Paralyzing earth is potentially longer lasting, but procs suck on this server. It's not unusual to go a full minute or longer without a proc, especially when soloing without dex buffs from a shaman. Paralyzing Earth can also break early, despite it's potential increased max duration. If your going heal in between dpsing it might be more reliable to ensnare the target, Run away with sow/wolf form, heal until the NPC gets close, and the run some distance again, before doing some more healing. Ensnaring roots doesn't last as long as Paralyzing, but a spell is still more reliable then a proc.

[Snaggles]

Grasping is quick and cheap; ensnaring for parking.

Anything a ranger fights should be snared and rooted as-needed. PE is really nice but you have options on your spell bar. Where a root weapon forces your hand in a lot of situations where a snared and fleeing mob would be better.

I really dislike the AP but mainly because people compare it to the Reaver. It’s a solid ranger pick. You would be just fine with an Herbalist too, most the time.

Toss this up in a “YMMV” category.

[Crede]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. Ranger heals suck. Its more efficient to fear kite or Root Rot with the Bow than to trying to rely on healing in between each root. Paralyzing earth is potentially longer lasting, but procs suck on this server. It's not unusual to go a full minute or longer without a proc, especially when soloing without dex buffs from a shaman. Paralyzing Earth can also break early, despite it's potential increased max duration. If your going heal in between dpsing it might be more reliable to ensnare the target, Run away with sow/wolf form, heal until the NPC gets close, and the run some distance again, before doing some more healing. Ensnaring roots doesn't last as long as Paralyzing, but a spell is still more reliable then a proc.

All this sounds like lvl 30ish ranger shit. Not the high level stuff. Bow dps also blows. More efficient to just grab a POTG, heal in between/during fights, especially 50+. You won't be fear kiting 50+ unless you're going to WW. Having PE from the spade doesn't mean you can't use your own root if needed, but it's really nice when it procs, it saves mana(which rangers always struggle with) and helps out with combat heals.

[Toxigen]

You only need a Woodsmans Staff and a Swarmcaller til Epic(s).

[Snaggles]

All this sounds like lvl 30ish ranger shit. Not the high level stuff. Bow dps also blows. More efficient to just grab a POTG, heal in between/during fights, especially 50+. You won't be fear kiting 50+ unless you're going to WW. Having PE from the spade doesn't mean you can't use your own root if needed, but it's really nice when it procs, it saves mana(which rangers always struggle with) and helps out with combat heals.

Outside trying to solo Geo’s a proper bow kit can kill pretty quickly. Putting down nobles and bards for example probably takes a minute if that. All while not getting hit at all or spending much mana outside maybe one or two roots.

In ToV I bow a lot whether not trusting or other people fighting Glimmers or Zlexak fights. Zlex with my kit using summoned arrows and no disc is 42-45dps. Which sucks but timing ins/outs with a Meljeldin is 18dps.

If I was doing another ranger to 60 I would probably do Kedge Keep with arrows once HK greens out. Kill speed on a 5000hp shark sucks but the zem would help a bit. Also might luck out with a driftwood chest or Hammerhead helm.

[Cecily]

Are you bowing Zlex out of range of AE or doing in/out with bow?

[Snaggles]

Are you bowing Zlex out of range of AE or doing in/out with bow?

Nah just bowing Zlex.

I meant compared running in/out of the AE to melee is still about half the dps, maybe less (at least for me).

[Master Roshi]

You only need a Woodsmans Staff and a Swarmcaller til Epic(s).

^this

[Zuranthium]

Argent Protector's higher delay makes it easier to swap in an offhand weapon between attack rounds, creating better DPS than shitters who don't weapon swap with their "better" weapon.

[Troxx]

https://media.tenor.com/aMZ7m4CBO8UAAAAC/not-sure-if-serious-the-avengers.gif

[Zuranthium]

Want to 1v1?

[Troxx]

Does it involve baby oil and a Costco-sized tub of petroleum Jelly?

[Snaggles]

Argent Protector's higher delay makes it easier to swap in an offhand weapon between attack rounds, creating better DPS than shitters who don't weapon swap with their "better" weapon.

If you root, turn off attack until the button resets, and attack again (joust) your AP is a 42/0 2hs. Good ratio!

Or bow, or fear, etc. Lots of ways to kill stuff with a ranger.

[Toxigen]

Argent Protector's higher delay makes it easier to swap in an offhand weapon between attack rounds, creating better DPS than shitters who don't weapon swap with their "better" weapon.

lmao

remember buddy velious was beat in kunark gear and nobody was swapping weapons for more damage

you're definitely not a shitter if you beat that kobold down 5% faster!

[Zuranthium]

remember buddy velious was beat in kunark gear and nobody was swapping weapons for more damage

So what? That has nothing to do with what is objectively better play. Warriors and Rangers who don't weapon swap would be considered low tier players if EQ was an actual competitive game.

For everything outside of shitty zerg raiding, maximizing your character's DPS is highly relevant. Trying to beat raid content with as small of a force as possible, or single-group content, or duo/solo - in all of these instances the difference of weapon swapping or not can easily change if you win or lose, or how much you will be able to farm in a given period of time.

And actually it can still matter for shitty zerg raiding, because a Warrior is building more aggro when they weapon swap and the extra DPS from all the Warriors/Rangers on the raid changes how fast the kill happens, and that could make a difference for being able to move onto another raid target before another guild.

[Troxx]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdnNycm5yMDByYXkzMHhwZTV5bXRsd3Z wbDYwb3lucmNzbzJreGlkaiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/DUO9dc3yDLXHO/giphy.gif

[enjchanter]

Is there any reason you're not gunna use mjledrens or primal 2hs?

Rp or something ?

[Crede]

Is there any reason you're not gunna use mjledrens or primal 2hs?

Rp or something ?

Stuff still isn’t cheap dkp nowadays. And not everyone raids. No way in hell guilds would sell cek 2h loot rights either.

[Snaggles]

If a ranger wants to optimize DPS you don’t do it with a gimmick that won’t work.

* Get Avatar
* Use Cek or Shovel, time jolts so you aren’t losing dps
* Approx 2 mins from the end swap in BFG and Swiftwind, burn Trueshot and 8dmg arrows
* Don’t Jolt

Congrats, you might get bronze medal podium finish on the parse if the target isn’t rooted and nobody torps you.

[Ripqozko]

If a ranger wants to optimize DPS you don’t do it with a gimmick that won’t work.

* Get Avatar
* Use Cek or Shovel, time jolts so you aren’t losing dps
* Approx 2 mins from the end swap in BFG and Swiftwind, burn Trueshot and 8dmg arrows
* Don’t Jolt

Congrats, you might get bronze medal podium finish on the parse if the target isn’t rooted and nobody torps you.

bronze is pretty true in guild full of vulak dagger rogues, otherwise it parses really well (minus rooted tov that screws all that up)

[Snaggles]

bronze is pretty true in guild full of vulak dagger rogues, otherwise it parses really well (minus rooted tov that screws all that up)

Yea I don't have the guts to trueshot even the non-rooted stuff in ToV, having bump ready is a gamechanger.

On silly targets though meme weapon is still very good.

[Zuranthium]

If a ranger wants to optimize DPS you don’t do it with a gimmick that won’t work.

* Get Avatar
* Use Cek or Shovel, time jolts so you aren’t losing dps

Weapon swapping isn't a gimmick, it's a game mechanic and it works, and should be used any time someone is willing to put the effort in.

Top DPS for Ranger (minus using Trueshot disc + the generally unobtainable BFG) = Shovel of the Harvest + weapon swapping with Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn.

Jolt isn't needed all the time.

[Snaggles]

Weapon swapping isn't a gimmick, it's a game mechanic and it works, and should be used any time someone is willing to put the effort in.

Top DPS for Ranger (minus using Trueshot disc + the generally unobtainable BFG) = Shovel of the Harvest + weapon swapping with Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn.

Jolt isn't needed all the time.

Cool load some parses. Usually I'm too busy managing buffs or clicking worts to dig out my claw of lightning for an extra 2dps.

[Toxigen]

Weapon swapping isn't a gimmick, it's a game mechanic and it works, and should be used any time someone is willing to put the effort in.

Top DPS for Ranger (minus using Trueshot disc + the generally unobtainable BFG) = Shovel of the Harvest + weapon swapping with Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn.

Jolt isn't needed all the time.

lets see you beat Rip's parses w/ your amazing mechanic

[Ripqozko]

lets see you beat Rip's parses w/ your amazing mechanic

This is non bfg cek sword if ya have one on aary

/GU Aaryonar in 497s, 425k @855 | Shoeshineboy 31465@(66 in 472s) | Phillip 24982@(53 in 470s) | Scian 24574@(51 in 473s) | Ripqozko 21916@(50 in 435s) | Lisson 21106@(47 in 444s) | Pulz 20502@(44 in 461s) | Gatruk 20476@(46 in 436s) | Enviee 19119@(43 in 441s) | Cattiebree 18603@(42 in 436s) | Simorgh 16999@(36 in 461s) | Satsugai 16042@(37 in 426s) | Kushnada 15302@(32 in 475s) | Choamsky 15151@(38 in 392s) | Joraah 14458@(31 in 465s) | Zogaguk 13400@(30 in 440s)

[Snaggles]

Yea Aary is a demoralizing parse due to the -200attack debuff but it’s generally a long fight and no AE to get torped on. I like Dain for that too.

Nothing to do but melee and wait. Or click weapon slots, as it seems.

[Ripqozko]

Yea Aary is a demoralizing parse due to the -200attack debuff but it’s generally a long fight and no AE to get torped on. I like Dain for that too.

Nothing to do but melee and wait. Or click weapon slots, as it seems.

Ya dps will be lower but it's good for showing where you can parse, I'm above tstaff monks, couple rogues and wars

[Zuranthium]

lets see you beat Rip's parses w/ your amazing mechanic

Send account info that has a character with those 2 weapons!

[Duik]

Sooo, not tested then?

[Snaggles]

You can parse with any weapons, doesnt have to be BiS. Before vs After, it's about the percentage gain not the end number. Monk 2h and tossing in a SoS for example.

Unfortunately any short parse will more likely show examples of parse scatter than measurable gain. So have fun rapid-clicking for like 10 mins at least.

[Duik]

Wouldnt faster weapons with exteme haste make gains made by swapping more difficult to pull off?
Using a shitty slow 2hs with 21% haste is much more forgiving of a misclick etc.
Zuran seems convinced and him not having access to BIS stuff gave me the idea maybe it works, but at crappy equipment lvls (like mine...) it is worth it.
Just my 2cp.

[Snaggles]

If you pull it off a few times the part of your brain that will use Observer Bias will multiply that success out minutes without a failure. In reality you don’t know how many times you are missing a MH swing because that’s data you are less interested in.

There are a lot of ranger tricks out there to boost dps. None involve quick swapping unless it’s after a slow or tash to a weapon that’s actually good.

[Zuranthium]

Sooo, not tested then?

It's already been done with other weapons and is basic math what the result will be when upgrading.

[Duik]

It's already been done with other weapons and is basic math what the result will be when upgrading.

Da fasterer da weapons get, the more difficulter it gets to get returns on your "you beaut ye olde weapon swap technique". Now, messa gots no logs/parses to prove/disprove this.
But neeva do yousa.

Now, original EQ maybe. Slower (by velious standards) weapons, less 2hs dam bonus (from recent era patches) and more time from less worn haste and lesser spell haste ya maybe gots a point.

From this point. Proof or shuts up.

[Jimjam]

Wouldnt faster weapons with exteme haste make gains made by swapping more difficult to pull off?
Using a shitty slow 2hs with 21% haste is much more forgiving of a misclick etc.
Zuran seems convinced and him not having access to BIS stuff gave me the idea maybe it works, but at crappy equipment lvls (like mine...) it is worth it.
Just my 2cp.

Fishing for berserker strength procs with offhand pgt… It barely works with unhasted lanseax of the wolves (44 delay) on quarm as the mouse clicks are too close together. Different client there though. Maybe titanium deals better woth a quick succession of ui mouse clicks (it doesn’t).

In low/mid content it isn’t worth giving up a bag slot for the secondary item. That is -5pp per vendor run.

[Tooboredtoquit]

Unrelated to the greater question being discussed, but I just tossed an Argent Protector on my level 20 ranger and it feels great and not too slow. Looks badass too! I'm not a tryhard looking to swap for punches or whatever, lol, but I guess it seems doable with like the Duxa UI or something.

[Snaggles]

Unrelated to the greater question being discussed, but I just tossed an Argent Protector on my level 20 ranger and it feels great and not too slow. Looks badass too! I'm not a tryhard looking to swap for punches or whatever, lol, but I guess it seems doable with like the Duxa UI or something.

The damage cap doesn’t lift until around 30. High 20’s your hits may creep up a bit.
I’d keep the AP in the bag for a while.

[sammoHung]

Using herbalist spade on my ranger. smacking for 170s at level 45. good choice in my book