About magician chain casting

[mgolinel]

According to https://wiki.project1999.com/Magician#Chain_Casting, it seems that chain casting does not work the way we could expect.

"Unfortunately, the way agro current works on P99, this strategy is not very effective. When a pet dies, all of the hate that it built up seems to be applied directly to the caster (instead of "lost"). This means that a newly summoned pet will have very little chance of peeling the mob off of the caster. This has been reported as a bug, but has yet to be acknowledged as one (as of 6/23/20)."

Any news on this point ? Is it really true ? It's very hard for me to remember how it could work in 1999 especially because I was exclusively using an earth pet during this period.

[PatChapp]

Yeah that's how it is, it's not bad outdoors if you can kite a bit until you get a root proc but really tough indoors

[Snaggles]

Not really. First taunt or root will peel it off you. I put four pets into an Ice Burrower and if it was true it would have to chase a long time.

Consider packing root nets for hard stuff.

[Balimon]

It can be a struggle like others have said, use the earth pet for root if it's serious. This is also another reason hit points are an important stat for Mages.

[sajbert]

Is this Classic? If not seems pretty gamebreaking.

[magnetaress]

It's broken. It could be worse tho.

[mgolinel]

Sort of class balance adjustment or the aggro code base is very tricky to change (assuming the current behavior is not classic, I cannot say) ?

[Balimon]

Is this Classic? If not seems pretty gamebreaking.

Not sure, it wasn't this way before Green launched. No word from the devs if this was intentional or not

[Snaggles]

The trick to leveling a mage is low hp blues and time. Less contested camps the better. Nothing slows the progress like not having your spawn(s) when you log in to grind a bit.

If you need to kill something tough with a mage pack a midnight mallet (you have Malosini) and root nets. Ideally in a large open space. Maybe a reaper too. Or level up so you can kill it with one pet health bar; the 57 earth is quite a bit better.

[Jimjam]

The trick to leveling a mage is low hp blues and time. Less contested camps the better. Nothing slows the progress like not having your spawn(s) when you log in to grind a bit.

If you need to kill something tough with a mage pack a midnight mallet (you have Malosini) and root nets. Ideally in a large open space. Maybe a reaper too. Or level up so you can kill it with one pet health bar; the 57 earth is quite a bit better.

Basically, don’t solo a mage like the other casters do. Solo it like a melee?

[Balimon]

Basically, don’t solo a mage like the other casters do. Solo it like a melee?

Generally this is exactly right. Mage is more like a hybrid class than a pure int caster. With the newish faster root proc, it's easier to deal with two mobs now, however Snaggles is right. Hunt for single pulls, easy blues that die fast.

[Snaggles]

Or even a pure melee. I've said a mage is kinda like soloing a rogue or warrior, its a dps race but you have a fairly tough pet and way more burst. More squishy though.

I guess if I had enough space chain summoning would be my last plan. It's kind of like bow-kiting with a warrior...very gross. Without the space you just gotta race the hp war with nukes.

Ideal leveling though, easy blues, singles as little mana as possible. Later the classic Poof & Boom approach works great.

[long.liam]

Not really. First taunt or root will peel it off you. I put four pets into an Ice Burrower and if it was true it would have to chase a long time.

Consider packing root nets for hard stuff.

The pet can only taunt a mob if it's below the pet's level. The Mage pet levels max out at 48 for the Standard pets and 49 for the epic. Any Mob above that the pet will not be able to taunt. Also with the level variance for summoning not every pet will be able to taunt that same mob. Additionally the higher the level of the NPC, the less likely the earth pet's root will land.

[Jimjam]

The pet can only taunt a mob if it's below the pet's level. The Mage pet levels max out at 48 for the Standard pets and 49 for the epic. Any Mob above that the pet will not be able to taunt. Also with the level variance for summoning not every pet will be able to taunt that same mob. Additionally the higher the level of the NPC, the less likely the earth pet's root will land.

Killing stuff above level 48 is tricky? Further evidence the mage is a melee.

[Snaggles]

The pet can only taunt a mob if it's below the pet's level. The Mage pet levels max out at 48 for the Standard pets and 49 for the epic. Any Mob above that the pet will not be able to taunt. Also with the level variance for summoning not every pet will be able to taunt that same mob. Additionally the higher the level of the NPC, the less likely the earth pet's root will land.

The earth pet can root Ulump. Also I know that about taunt but as mentioned I’ve put four earth pets into an ice burrower and it jumped on the pet almost immediately each time. Hence the “all aggro transfers to the PC” is BS.

The toughest thing Ive killed with my mage is just an exp mob (prob a dozen times) but level 50. Even racing to kill with spells the earth kept it pretty locked down:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Svunsa

Killing stuff above level 48 is tricky? Further evidence the mage is a melee.

Math checks out

[long.liam]

"The earth pet can root Ulump. Also I know that about taunt but as mentioned I’ve put four earth pets into an ice burrower and it jumped on the pet almost immediately each time. Hence the “all aggro transfers to the PC” is BS."

You did that recently? Have you tried without the earth pet? I can guarantee the hate does transfer each time. I'll post a video for evidence when I have time.

[PatChapp]

The earth pet can root Ulump. Also I know that about taunt but as mentioned I’ve put four earth pets into an ice burrower and it jumped on the pet almost immediately each time. Hence the “all aggro transfers to the PC” is BS.

The toughest thing Ive killed with my mage is just an exp mob (prob a dozen times) but level 50. Even racing to kill with spells the earth kept it pretty locked down:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Svunsa



Math checks out

You don't need to chain pet Svunsa.

[Snaggles]

You don't need to chain pet Svunsa.

I didn’t say that. It was commenting on being able to taunt off a level 50.

"The earth pet can root Ulump. Also I know that about taunt but as mentioned I’ve put four earth pets into an ice burrower and it jumped on the pet almost immediately each time. Hence the “all aggro transfers to the PC” is BS."

You did that recently? Have you tried without the earth pet? I can guarantee the hate does transfer each time. I'll post a video for evidence when I have time.

I don’t know, less than a year ago when I was bored. Feel free, just my observation. All these calls for “evidence” feels very elf court. Log in, try it, see what happens.

[Snaggles]

Keep in mind that if all damage truly went to the owner of a pet on every charm break an enchanter would die. Even in a group or duo. A shaman wolf can keep the ench from being summoned.

[PatChapp]

Keep in mind that if all damage truly went to the owner of a pet on every charm break an enchanter would die. Even in a group or duo. A shaman wolf can keep the ench from being summoned.

On my enchanter if I don't blur off the mob after a recharm it doesn't stop chasing me. Rooted mobs that don't summon are obviously nothing to do deal with

[Snaggles]

On my enchanter if I don't blur off the mob after a recharm it doesn't stop chasing me. Rooted mobs that don't summon are obviously nothing to do deal with

I was mainly thinking grind groups (with a warrior), cliff golems with a sham duo or mage, AoW, etc. all situations where unrooted targets have an enchanter pet doing 3-4x the dps of the next highest thing yet charm breaks are not an issue. Assuming the charmer can control the break. The assist target doesn’t even chase momentarily.

In the case of the cliff golem scenario whether a necro using foreman or ench with say the astral projection it’s probably doing 5-8x the shaman or mage pet. Yet a break is no big deal and there is no way a level 45-48ish pet is taunting a 57 npc.

[PatChapp]

Pet mechanics in groups are always funky
I still get summoned on breaks in small group stuff, like Royals and fungi camps. Usually don't have a proper tank in those scenarios though,just pets in Royals and usually a monk at fungi

[Balimon]

Hate transfer is definitely a solo thing, in groups aggro is different and like others have said funky. Heck the epic pet sometimes can pull aggro off players on certain mobs like ring war giants or shimmers in ToV.

Hardest mob I've soloed is probably Tserinna, but I'm usually very risk adverse solo.

[Snaggles]

I would never argue it doesnt exist. The misnomer of "all hate transfers to the caster" though, in my informal testing, is just not true.

Like "all stats will cap in Velious" some people like to make up bumper sticker slogans for a nuanced game. I'm probably beating the dead horse here but its just annoying to see it come up constantly.

Either way, pet summoning to grind is just bad. If you want to level fast the worst thing to do is to find something to kill that will require you to summon 3+ pets lol. If you're looking for a class to stunt kill stuff even if chain-summoning worked perfectly the mage would barely be a C-Grade solo artist. I say this with all the love in my heart for the mage; enjoy your limitations and your strengths.

[long.liam]

Keep in mind that if all damage truly went to the owner of a pet on every charm break an enchanter would die. Even in a group or duo. A shaman wolf can keep the ench from being summoned.

This doesn't seem to happen to charmed pets for some reason. I have played a druid, enchanter, necro, and mage. Only the summoned pets seem to have their hate transferred to the caster. The charmed pets seem to wipe or generate minimal hate on charm breaks. I don't know why it works this way.

[PatChapp]

Hate transfer is definitely a solo thing, in groups aggro is different and like others have said funky. Heck the epic pet sometimes can pull aggro off players on certain mobs like ring war giants or shimmers in ToV.

Hardest mob I've soloed is probably Tserinna, but I'm usually very risk adverse solo.
You solod tserinna on a mage? Did you record it? That's amazing

[Balimon]

You solod tserinna on a mage? Did you record it? That's amazing

Thanks!

I should've, Im just lazy and never installed obs. I did have to use two items to do it, but I think with lucky bashes/stun it would be doable with just a root net charge to keep her pet locked down.

[silo32]

Hate transfer is definitely a solo thing, in groups aggro is different and like others have said funky. Heck the epic pet sometimes can pull aggro off players on certain mobs like ring war giants or shimmers in ToV.

Hardest mob I've soloed is probably Tserinna, but I'm usually very risk adverse solo.

Bad mage if you have a pet on a shimmer. You knew this already tho.

[Snaggles]

The only time a pet can pull aggro off any player is if they are not in melee range. That's the great thing about pets...no aggro, max melee distance to avoid some AE's. They path around like drunks but once they are actually on a target they pay more attention to the task than 90% of warmbody raiders.

[Balimon]

The only time a pet can pull aggro off any player is if they are not in melee range. That's the great thing about pets...no aggro, max melee distance to avoid some AE's. They path around like drunks but once they are actually on a target they pay more attention to the task than 90% of warmbody raiders.

That's the thing though, the epic pet does pull off players in melee range. It's only on certain mobs, I've done it in HoT many times. I stopped even sending it on the glimmers(shimmers?) I can't remember which ones are which. It's also a problem on ring war phase 2 and phase 3 mobs, it can pull on them as well, have to pay attention or the pet will die.

Pets are excellent sources of extra dps, but that isn't the meta anymore with zerg guilds. It's possible to use them way more often on raids than people do currently, but that's a whole another can of worms.

[silo32]

I should've, Im just lazy

We know.

[silo32]

That's the thing though, the epic pet does pull off players in melee range. It's only on certain mobs, I've done it in HoT many times. I stopped even sending it on the glimmers(shimmers?) I can't remember which ones are which.

You mean your guild leader told you to stop being a noob mage and sending your pet on those mobs to stop pushing. So they don't have to rebuff all the melles.

Ftfy

[Toxigen]

...but...but I want to do more than coth and DA!

[Balimon]

You mean your guild leader told you to stop being a noob mage and sending your pet on those mobs to stop pushing. So they don't have to rebuff all the melles.

Ftfy

Guess you were born knowing everything, sounds pretty sweet!

[Snaggles]

That's the thing though, the epic pet does pull off players in melee range. It's only on certain mobs, I've done it in HoT many times. I stopped even sending it on the glimmers(shimmers?) I can't remember which ones are which. It's also a problem on ring war phase 2 and phase 3 mobs, it can pull on them as well, have to pay attention or the pet will die.

Pets are excellent sources of extra dps, but that isn't the meta anymore with zerg guilds. It's possible to use them way more often on raids than people do currently, but that's a whole another can of worms.

Hmm never seen this happen with any pet. Minus the tank positioning the target and the pet owner not waiting to assist (I’ve seen this MANY times). Backing too quickly out of range = flips on pet. Warriors tank glimmers and don’t have the best lock but I’ve also seen this with VSR kills that were pet heavy and tanks that didn’t know how to backpedal.

The RW giants will only attack something in range and only if it has the most aggro. Most aggro, not in range, it will keep walking. The best thing any Druid or Mage can do during a RW is make sure any player being attacked has a damage shield. It’s safe and massive dps for unslowed giants. Most the time I can land my ranger DS or pally ragefire arms DS on the monks and even the designated tanks. My own diagnostic check to see how bad people are being.

I don’t mind pets for a lot of things, especially sub 20 person semi-raid targets or Vindi. PoG and Fear are really fun for mages, AE groups and pet assisting the MA. In dungeons it adds a level of risk I usually don’t feel is worth it.

Back to topic though, my own perspective is chaining is a stupid way to level. Maybe for outdoor stunt kills but still adds a lot of risk.

[Jimjam]

I found on my ranger it was pretty much guaranteed that DS would stick to the tank on raid fights. Maybe they were clicking off DS to make a slot free for HoTs? Idk.