Just out of morbid curiosity, the Int Caster Epics...

[Loadsamoney]

...how do they rank from easiest to hardest, and which ones are on the easier side of the Epic Difficulty spectrum, factoring in things like bottlenecks, spawn time, difficulty of mobs, etc.

Or are all four of them harder than average?

[Toxigen]

1: necro - easiest because the real epic is Druushk staff so all you need is to key for VP and be in a competetive raid guild

2: wiz - lets face it if you're a wizard and working on epic you're in a raid guild...pretty easy

3: enc - just due to competition at VT / VD...rest of it is pretty easy


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4: mage - earth staff...nuff said...especially since enchanters can solo it

x_ptOqHc1C4

[loramin]

4: mage - earth staff...nuff said...especially since enchanters can solo it

x_ptOqHc1C4

And people say P99 isn't classic: Enchanters totally soloed Mage epics in classic! :rolleyes:

[enjchanter]

im glad enc is so good at soloing because i hate grouping

[Alarria]

1: necro - easiest because the real epic is Druushk staff so all you need is to key for VP and be in a competetive raid guild

2: wiz - lets face it if you're a wizard and working on epic you're in a raid guild...pretty easy

3: enc - just due to competition at VT / VD...rest of it is pretty easy


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4: mage - earth staff...nuff said...especially since enchanters can solo it

x_ptOqHc1C4

Glitcher's body on the ramp makes that video A+ :D

[PatChapp]

That spawn point is a gift for enchanters,by far the easiest.

[Balimon]

The only int caster epic that is difficult in the Velious revamp era is Magician.

1. Wizard is pretty easy, especially if your guild does VS, can buy a gnarled staff MQ as well

2. Necro has a couple bottlenecks but really it's just the slimeblood, if your guild is doing golems it's not a big deal

3. Enchanter has VT, VD, and the hate essence. Otherwise it's soloable pretty much

4. Magician is a fun quest and well designed with a few rare pieces, but it's not that difficult besides the Earth staff, which makes it unobtainable for 95%

[Loadsamoney]

The only int caster epic that is difficult in the Velious revamp era is Magician.

1. Wizard is pretty easy, especially if your guild does VS, can buy a gnarled staff MQ as well

2. Necro has a couple bottlenecks but really it's just the slimeblood, if your guild is doing golems it's not a big deal

3. Enchanter has VT, VD, and the hate essence. Otherwise it's soloable pretty much

4. Magician is a fun quest and well designed with a few rare pieces, but it's not that difficult besides the Earth staff, which makes it unobtainable for 95%

So Wizard is the easiest of the four? Is it easier than average among all the possible epics, or about average?

Compare it to say the Druid and Ranger epics.

[Videri]

So Wizard is the easiest of the four? Is it easier than average among all the possible epics, or about average?

Compare it to say the Druid and Ranger epics.

I think the wizard epic is perhaps one small step harder than the druid epic or Swiftwind. Earthcaller would be much harder. But you can't get the wizard epic unless you're raiding with a guild that kills VS (or buy an MQ of it, but I doubt those are sold often, because any guild that can kill VS...has wizards in it).

You also need to do a step in Fear with a small raid force; and kill Phinny over and over until you get the staff. Maybe budget on 10-20 Phinny kills.

Have you raided yet, Loadsy?
Just seems like you have a lot of questions that would be answered pretty quickly if you joined a casual raiding guild like KWSM or any Sanctum guild, or literally any guild on Green.

[Loadsamoney]

I think the wizard epic is perhaps one small step harder than the druid epic or Swiftwind. Earthcaller would be much harder. But you can't get the wizard epic unless you're raiding with a guild that kills VS (or buy an MQ of it, but I doubt those are sold often, because any guild that can kill VS...has wizards in it).

You also need to do a step in Fear with a small raid force; and kill Phinny over and over until you get the staff. Maybe budget on 10-20 Phinny kills.

Have you raided yet, Loadsy?
Just seems like you have a lot of questions that would be answered pretty quickly if you joined a casual raiding guild like KWSM or any Sanctum guild, or literally any guild on Green.

I joined KWSM, my goal now is to work towards 55 so I can get in on some planar raids. Forgot how frustratingly slow level 45 was.

[Videri]

I joined KWSM, my goal now is to work towards 55 so I can get in on some planar raids. Forgot how frustratingly slow level 45 was.

Ok, good!! Have fun. Levels are king. I still think The Hole is underused on Green. It’s still the best ZEM despite ZEM percentage changes, and there are enough mobs for 15+ groups.

[Loadsamoney]

Ok, good!! Have fun. Levels are king. I still think The Hole is underused on Green. It’s still the best ZEM despite ZEM percentage changes, and there are enough mobs for 15+ groups.

Assuming it's not camped often the Hole entrance with the earth elementals is one spot I'm considering around 49, as are wyverns in CS.

[Balimon]

So Wizard is the easiest of the four? Is it easier than average among all the possible epics, or about average?

Compare it to say the Druid and Ranger epics.

Wizard is definitely the easiest, you only need to collect three different staves, and you can MQ any of them. It wouldn't be that hard at all to just get one and buy the other two.

How it compares to other epics? Probably about on par with cleric or monk, so definitely at the top of the list for easy epics. I think rogue and shaman may be the only ones truly easier? All of the epics are totally achievable by casual raiding and/or buying MQ's, besides bard,warrior, and mage. It's easier than druid or ranger, neither of those are particularly difficult, only the SEoC from Hate limits the ranger epic iirc.

1. Rogue
2. Shaman
3. Monk
4. Cleric
5. Wizard

After that I'm not sure what order, but I'd rank the hardest in this order:

12. Bard
13. Warrior
14. Magician

[Snaggles]

They all have weird bottlenecks.

Prob least to most necessary.
Mage (except farmers) < Necro < Ench (except farmers) < Wiz

Water staff for a mage wrecks. Epic is vanity but doesn’t really change what you will do. It will increase your kill speed in Droga. Otherwise tho, meh.

[Loadsamoney]

They all have weird bottlenecks.

Prob least to most necessary.
Mage (except farmers) < Necro < Ench (except farmers) < Wiz

Water staff for a mage wrecks. Epic is vanity but doesn’t really change what you will do. It will increase your kill speed in Droga. Otherwise tho, meh.

Wizard epic is needed the most? For the mana regen?

[Jimjam]

Wizard epic is needed the most? For the mana regen?

I imagine the rune component works handily with the manna robe / mana stones?

Also, the cost of peridots for manaskin accumulate quickly if you're playing in a style that gets you hit.

[Snaggles]

I don’t wiz but a lot of raid stuff you need to get close to nuke. Either belly casters or for fear you don’t want to ping-pong a raid target. 800hp will soak up a nasty aoe for a class that doesn’t have many hps. Plus it stacks with the self-rune.

The necro has other dots and snares. VoG > Shiss for most high end PC’s. Most mages aren’t using pets except solo or small-man situations where a water/earth/air can be situationally almost as good. The water’s dps is very high and on stuff that resists normal spell damage (like epic fights) it can beat the epic due to backstab.

[Toxigen]

The real necro epic is Druushk soulwell staff.

Enc can get by on Fesh staff for stat stick, especially if you're FT7 or 8. Don't get me wrong, its great to have though. Opens up gearing options while staying at 205 CHA. Can buy VT/VD loot rights if socking isn't your thing.

Mage is a dick flex. You're a coth bot, sorry not sorry.

So yeah, Wiz epic is by far the most useful of the int casters. Its absolutely nutty for end game raiding which is all wizards are good for anyway.

[Snaggles]

For raiding necro are the twitches to the mage coths. Soulwell or epic falls into the mage epic line of utility really. Stats > all. Unless you’re a dex build fesh staff melee’r (huhu jk)

First place wiz. Second place ench for guilt free haste asks or for people without 40/41% haste. If the necro epic was a neg 200 MR check snare it might have situational raid and semi-raid use.

[Balimon]

Epic mage pet is excellent for raiding for a couple reasons. A max level water pet will parse higher, but often you only get to summon it once, and it probably won't be max level. The epic being the same level every time is a huge advantage because on average it will do more than a water pet simply because of RNG.

Secondly you can use the epic pet mana free, because it's already summoned on a charged orb. This lets you have the mana you'd use to summon on a one off fight, let's say a random dragon in NToV where you can use pets, like Lady M if you've cleared enough of the trash. In that situation you're getting a guaranteed amount of DPS from the pet, and it doesn't cost you 400, leaving you enough to drop two more rods for the clerics.

There's a reason mages stop using focused water pets after getting the epic, and while pet use in raiding is certainly debatable, they are still used plenty enough that the epic mage is getting more DPS over time than they would with water. There's nothing worse then summoning the lowest level pet on a fight where it matters, and is resummoning during combat really worth it?

[Snaggles]

RNG aside and not knocking the epic of you have one (I wouldn’t turn it down), but getting a max pet just takes a couple extra minutes. Assuming you will use it since most raids the risk doesn’t outweigh the reward.

On those non-spell fights a mid tier focused water will parse as good. A 60 hitter will do more dps. Of course at the alternative of a Phinny looting rather than one circus of an epic with a nasty bottleneck.

For the casuals, show up early, burn some malachite and try hard with positioning. Use Velocity and Muzzle and reposition as needed. Out parse some players :).

[Balimon]

RNG aside and not knocking the epic of you have one (I wouldn’t turn it down), but getting a max pet just takes a couple extra minutes. Assuming you will use it since most raids the risk doesn’t outweigh the reward.

On those non-spell fights a mid tier focused water will parse as good. A 60 hitter will do more dps. Of course at the alternative of a Phinny looting rather than one circus of an epic with a nasty bottleneck.

For the casuals, show up early, burn some malachite and try hard with positioning. Use Velocity and Muzzle and reposition as needed. Out parse some players :).

One of my points is that you often don't have the time to resummon, like a statue kill where you run up and the mob is already in camp or on the way, you summon and go and that's it. You could get a max during the lockout prep period for AoW though.

I think we would have to do some parsing to on the mid tier pets, it's possible I'm wrong about some of the non max summons. I just know from the parses I've seen with my pet, it's usually in the top 3 for summoned pets /shrug. Most don't break 40 dps on high AC raid targets, and the highest I've seen in Kael on Vindi/Statue/AoW/KT is 45 or so that seems to be the ceiling.

You're absolutely right about on that last line there, if people show up prepared and actually buff and position the pet they will do really well. A water staff is all most mages really need to do well as far as pets go! The epic adds in an extra edge that's all.