My Ranger performing better with DW compared to 2H (lvl 39) Need advice!

[IzHaN80]

So.. I keep reading posts about how amazing 2H is for leveling up and how we shouldn't get out of 2H until 50. Maybe it has something to do with my weapons, but i am wearing 22% haste gloves and my DW combo usually outperforms my 2H weapon.


Dual Wield Set
https://wiki.project1999.com/Silken_Whip_of_Ensnaring
https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_Jade_Broadsword

2H
https://wiki.project1999.com/Springwood_Stave

I been leveling off the cougars from level 32 up to 39, unti level 35, the Springwood did seem to do way better, but after 36 things started to change abruptly towards my DW combo.

My 1Handers aren't even that good, being the Springwood Stave 2nd best choice after Woodman's Staff (i believe) i been trying for a while to get one but nobody selling so i did stick to this weapon.

At this point... Will make any sense to puruse the Woodman's? Will make any big difference? Get better 1-Handers instead?

Thanks in advance

[Eyry]

Get a woodmans staff

[Videri]

“Second place” doesn’t necessarily mean “basically almost as good.” 31/35 is 20% faster than 31/42. 20% more damage is a lot better.

[Toxigen]

#1: use all means available to get a Woody staff. Search WTS posts on the forums / discord, actively look in tunnel.

#2: How are you testing this? You used the word "seem" and that makes me skeptical.

People tend to think 1 handers are better when you go by feels. This is because the troughs of bad RNG on a slow 2 hander "feel" way worse than the highs...and watching 2 weapons attack more often is just psychologically "moar gud" for most people.

Go XP for an hour with the 1 handers. Then do another hour with the Woody in the exact same spot / ideally same mobs. As long as your playstyle doesn't change and there isn't outside interference that would get you killed / force you to stop playing, it should be a pretty good indicator of which is performing better.

But just get a damn Woodsman's Staff and use it. Trust. You're comparing a 4k weapon to like 300p worth of trash 1 handers I would give to a random level 5 in rags because I felt bad.

[IzHaN80]

#1: use all means available to get a Woody staff. Search WTS posts on the forums / discord, actively look in tunnel.

#2: How are you testing this? You used the word "seem" and that makes me skeptical.

People tend to think 1 handers are better when you go by feels. This is because the troughs of bad RNG on a slow 2 hander "feel" way worse than the highs...and watching 2 weapons attack more often is just psychologically "moar gud" for most people.

Go XP for an hour with the 1 handers. Then do another hour with the Woody in the exact same spot / ideally same mobs. As long as your playstyle doesn't change and there isn't outside interference that would get you killed / force you to stop playing, it should be a pretty good indicator of which is performing better.

But just get a damn Woodsman's Staff and use it. Trust. You're comparing a 4k weapon to like 300p worth of trash 1 handers I would give to a random level 5 in rags because I felt bad.

Like i said, i been leveling from 32-39 on Snow Cougars, when i got Springwood Stave, until level 36, it did feel like cougars would die faster with 2H, but once i hit 36 i started testing out more often to kill them with DW and they did usually drop faster by a margin amount of between 15-30 seconds. Also due to level variance or stats, i have seen cats being harder to hit and missing a lot of times with 2H wether the DW works way better and makes up for the misses with the speed they hit at.

Trust me, i was the one interested in getting a Woodman's Staff, i did pass the money from my Necro to my Ranger for that purpose, but nobody is selling, and the only person that was advertising has seem to be playing on a different timezone than mine and i never seen him again for days on Discord Bot... Forum posts never worked for me, and i do spam often at EC Tunnel, but i guess they're on high demand or scarce.

[IzHaN80]

“Second place” doesn’t necessarily mean “basically almost as good.” 31/35 is 20% faster than 31/42. 20% more damage is a lot better.

Didn't look at it that way, i will try to get one, but the only seller that was advertising one, we were skipping each other for days, and i guess the person got to sell it finally. I am using Discord Bot, i never got success when trying to find items throught post forums.

[Ripqozko]

Didn't look at it that way, i will try to get one, but the only seller that was advertising one, we were skipping each other for days, and i guess the person got to sell it finally. I am using Discord Bot, i never got success when trying to find items throught post forums.

Idk bout leveling it def shines with raid gear, cek sword outdpses my kriezen flame.

[IzHaN80]

To add to this post, i also noticed one of the other causes why i believe actually my DW will outperform 2H. I've noticed that my 2H a lot of times will hit as low as 11 damage as far as i reported on some low con greens. This doesn't seem to make much sense given the +8 dmg bonus that im supposed to get on top of my 31 base damage on weapon plus 200 Offensive + 200 2HB + 154 STR i mean... How is that even possible? I need to keep further testing but something is off with this damage.

[Freakish]

Parse it. The game does not run on feelings.

[Crede]

Idk bout leveling it def shines with raid gear, cek sword outdpses my kriezen flame.

Let’s see some parses comparing the 2.

[Jimjam]

Parse it. The game does not run on feelings.

Hard disagree.

[IzHaN80]

Parse it. The game does not run on feelings.
I would love to, how do you parse stuff in this game? Any recommended tools?

[PatChapp]

I would love to, how do you parse stuff in this game? Any recommended tools?

Gamparse works well and easy setup

[Ripqozko]

Let’s see some parses comparing the 2.

/GU Aaryonar in 497s, 425k @855 | Shoeshineboy 31465@(66 in 472s) | Phillip 24982@(53 in 470s) | Scian 24574@(51 in 473s) | Ripqozko 21916@(50 in 435s) | Lisson 21106@(47 in 444s) | Pulz 20502@(44 in 461s) | Gatruk 20476@(46 in 436s) | Enviee 19119@(43 in 441s) | Cattiebree 18603@(42 in 436s) | Simorgh 16999@(36 in 461s) | Satsugai 16042@(37 in 426s) | Kushnada 15302@(32 in 475s) | Choamsky 15151@(38 in 392s) | Joraah 14458@(31 in 465s) | Zogaguk 13400@(30 in 440s)

was my last cek parse, my ranger mostly stays inside vp now. as you can see i beat monks tho and 1 rogue. (lisson rogue, pulz, gatruk monks, cattiebree monk)

choamsky is ya normal dual wield ranger, forgot what he uses.

[jgold16]

/GU Aaryonar in 497s, 425k @855 | Shoeshineboy 31465@(66 in 472s) | Phillip 24982@(53 in 470s) | Scian 24574@(51 in 473s) | Ripqozko 21916@(50 in 435s) | Lisson 21106@(47 in 444s) | Pulz 20502@(44 in 461s) | Gatruk 20476@(46 in 436s) | Enviee 19119@(43 in 441s) | Cattiebree 18603@(42 in 436s) | Simorgh 16999@(36 in 461s) | Satsugai 16042@(37 in 426s) | Kushnada 15302@(32 in 475s) | Choamsky 15151@(38 in 392s) | Joraah 14458@(31 in 465s) | Zogaguk 13400@(30 in 440s)

was my last cek parse, my ranger mostly stays inside vp now. as you can see i beat monks tho and 1 rogue. (lisson rogue, pulz, gatruk monks, cattiebree monk)

choamsky is ya normal dual wield ranger, forgot what he uses.

Sorry, which weapon set up are you using? Gives me hope for my growing ranger. At 52 using:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crescent_Blades_of_Luclin
https://wiki.project1999.com/Exquisite_Velium_Warsword

[Andyman1022]

IIRC Rip uses https://wiki.project1999.com/Meljeldin,_Bane_of_Giants which is supposed to be the best parsing weapon for rangers in this era.

FWIW - The de facto casual setup is Swiftblade of Zek mainhand and Swiftwind offhand. Going to be hard pressed to find a tradeable 2hander that parses better than those two together (AT LEVEL 60).

So a lot of this depends on what haste you are using, what haste spell you have available, and what weapons are available to you.

Ripqozko has pretty great gear and a lot of experience, so his setup is definitely something to aspire to.

[Ripqozko]

IIRC Rip uses https://wiki.project1999.com/Meljeldin,_Bane_of_Giants which is supposed to be the best parsing weapon for rangers in this era.

FWIW - The de facto casual setup is Swiftblade of Zek mainhand and Swiftwind offhand. Going to be hard pressed to find a tradeable 2hander that parses better than those two together (AT LEVEL 60).

So a lot of this depends on what haste you are using, what haste spell you have available, and what weapons are available to you.

Ripqozko has pretty great gear and a lot of experience, so his setup is definitely something to aspire to.

thats correct i use meljeldin primarly, if high ac then i swap to my 1h setup with is kflame +swiftwind (attack too hard to replace from epic)

[Snaggles]

Mathematical ratio before Dmg Bonus:

14/28 .50 Silken whip
11/25 .44 green jade broadsword

31/42. .7380 springwood
31/35. .8857 woodsman
16.6% better ratio

Even accounting for the mainhand damage bonus at level 39 for 1h it’s 4 and for the Springwood it’s 7. That means the delay silken whip is .1428 delay/second where the Springwood is only .1666. At 60 the 1h goes to 11 and the Springwood to 34.

In short 2h at the low levels is more hit and miss, or at least high vs low. Later your minimum hit is still fairly decent and the ratios are significantly better than even the best 1h weapons. The woodsman or an exquisite 2h is going to offer significantly better performance for the money. I expect a SBoZ and Swiftwind will edge it out in the mid 50’s but it won’t be a blow-out defeat due to what’s happened in the last big 2h patch. Scaling 2h damage bonus is a big deal.

A few thoughts:
* Simple bias: you tend to remember the good and bad fights. 1h hits are closer in spread so you won’t fixate in them as much. Over time ratio averages better but our minds don’t parse like computers weighing hours of melee hits and making rational judgement.
* Sample size: A few kills either way can confirm bias but aren’t necessarily accurate.
* Hit tracking/fearing: If you are fearing the cougars it’s more likely to whiff due to client lag with a slow 2h. 1h’s give you numerical feedback and it’s easier to track where the npc is. At least for me sometimes.
* Level: Perhaps a lazy closer but at 39 I wouldn’t form firm opinions of specific setups. Your class will evolve a lot as will the gear. Upgrade for fun and survival but be careful in locking up opinions this early. Even at 60 there is a lot of bias and tropes to unpack…as you can see on the forums :)

As for endgame 2h vs 1h if you are just talking taking a ranger (or any melee) up a notch performance wise 2h is very strong. You also just need one fairly casual drop (Gozzrem for example) whereas often a DW kit is many times the dkp. My cek 2h seems to parse 7-10% higher than my Silver Whip or Rage and Claw or Lightning. On vindi with VoG the best I’ve done DW besides the BFG is 64dps. I was able to do 71dps with the cek with shiss and a spiked seahorse belt. Granted a Kreizzen or Baton of Flame is better so it might close the gap a bit.

In the end a ToV/PoG equipped melee who hunts down buffs and tries hard will notably outperform a casual geared character (often via the tryhard part). Whether 1hs or 2h the tier is bumped up. I still think a SBoZ/Swiftwind ranger can put down a very solid performance with some parse luck. Given a wide enough sample though (I like to combine parses for a night’s performance) they should fall behind a bit.

[Toxigen]

Even if they were equal, you're taking less damage which means moar merbs per hour.

[Andyman1022]

hesrightyaknow.gif

[Crede]

Even if they were equal, you're taking less damage which means moar merbs per hour.

Eh, does it? My ranger's 25 self DS adds up quick with 1h.

[Snaggles]

Eh, does it? My ranger's 25 self DS adds up quick with 1h.

I personally think there are intrinsic benefits to 2h over 1h like you mentioned. NPC DS’s literally will kill you. Enrage flips are spicy. Your ripostes are bigger. I don’t personally buy tanking ripostes (incoming to the player) are as big of a deal but it’s pretty difficult to parse out that damage from the rest. When I tank VSR on my paladin or ranger I don’t attack, warriors often use a 2h but that’s a different story with a 1500 life tap to minimize.

DW has some perks, I guess. More proc options, easier to swap in a tash stick without doing single digit dps. More MOK healing. Better stats for pullers. It’s often the high brow option and it’s quite a bit more exciting. The Italian v12 at 8000rpms vs the domestic larger v8. Power is power but the experience is different. It’s just a matter of not turning a blind eye to numbers.