Poisons Guide!!

[Robersonroger38]

Does anyone remember the poison guide Cecily had on the wiki, Some genius done went and messed up the guide on the wiki……

Think Cecily guide you could buy all mats from the few venders , and not have to go on a egg hunt doin some the ones that’s on there now.


Any info is appreciated!!

[Cecily]

Yeah they didn't mess it up too badly. Ignore the thrifty stuff and most of it is what I wrote.


1-20 -- Train at rogue GM.
Trivial 32 -- Spine Break (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spine_Break) : Delphinium (https://wiki.project1999.com/Delphinium) x 1, Thorny Ergot (https://wiki.project1999.com/Thorny_Ergot) x 1, Lined Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lined_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
Trivial 98 -- Athropic Sap (https://wiki.project1999.com/Athropic_Sap) : Alocasia Root (https://wiki.project1999.com/Alocasia_Root) x 2, Lined Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lined_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
Trivial 108 -- Aching Blood (https://wiki.project1999.com/Aching_Blood) : Lactera (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lactera) x 2, Lined Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lined_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
Trivial 172 -- Calcium Rot (https://wiki.project1999.com/Calcium_Rot) : King's Thorn (https://wiki.project1999.com/King%27s_Thorn) x 2, Sealed Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sealed_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
(https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Classic_Era)
Trivial 250+ -- Spirit of Sloth (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spirit_of_Sloth) : Creeper Ivy (https://wiki.project1999.com/Creeper_Ivy) x 2, Sealed Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sealed_Poison_Vial), Ethereal Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ethereal_Suspension)

1) Gindlin Toxfodder (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gindlin_Toxfodder) -- West Karana (https://wiki.project1999.com/West_Karana) (-3000, -13400), See him for Spine Break, Athropic Sap, and Aching Blood.
2) Ennixy Frennor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ennixy_Frennor) -- Steamfont Mountains (https://wiki.project1999.com/Steamfont_Mountains) (1380, -830) : See her for Calcium Rot and some fun Bertoxx assassin roleplay guides. Sells King's Thorn (https://wiki.project1999.com/King%27s_Thorn). Does not sell Mortar and Pestle, Sealed Poison Vials, and Constrict Suspensions. Bring those with you.
3) Brak Daggermist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Brak_Daggermist) -- Firiona Vie (https://wiki.project1999.com/Firiona_Vie) (-3600, 2300) : See him for Spirit of Sloth. Sells all ingredients.


Using this guide to get 250 skill should cost you about 6k if I remember correctly. The primary stat for Make Poison is Dexterity or the higher of Int/Wis if you're a gifted sort. In general, I recommend selling back the poisons. Apply Poison needs to be about 100 skill for reliable applies. Either train Apply Poison with the cheaper poisons or use practice points. Spine Break is honestly really good. It's just that poison sucks to carry to around. Good luck!

[Cecily]

https://i.imgur.com/rjWIEGy.png

[Toxigen]

how bad is the aggro after they adjusted all that stuff?

i can honestly say ive never read the poison making wiki page, interesting

[Cecily]

That's a really good question. It's probably not too bad now. Mana sieve poison has been my I'm gonna get around to trying that thing for over a year now.

[Robersonroger38]

Yeah they didn't mess it up too badly. Ignore the thrifty stuff and most of it is what I wrote.


1-20 -- Train at rogue GM.
Trivial 32 -- Spine Break (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spine_Break) : Delphinium (https://wiki.project1999.com/Delphinium) x 1, Thorny Ergot (https://wiki.project1999.com/Thorny_Ergot) x 1, Lined Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lined_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
Trivial 98 -- Athropic Sap (https://wiki.project1999.com/Athropic_Sap) : Alocasia Root (https://wiki.project1999.com/Alocasia_Root) x 2, Lined Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lined_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
Trivial 108 -- Aching Blood (https://wiki.project1999.com/Aching_Blood) : Lactera (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lactera) x 2, Lined Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Lined_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
Trivial 172 -- Calcium Rot (https://wiki.project1999.com/Calcium_Rot) : King's Thorn (https://wiki.project1999.com/King%27s_Thorn) x 2, Sealed Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sealed_Poison_Vial), Constrict Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Constrict_Suspension)
(https://wiki.project1999.com/Category:Classic_Era)
Trivial 250+ -- Spirit of Sloth (https://wiki.project1999.com/Spirit_of_Sloth) : Creeper Ivy (https://wiki.project1999.com/Creeper_Ivy) x 2, Sealed Poison Vial (https://wiki.project1999.com/Sealed_Poison_Vial), Ethereal Suspension (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ethereal_Suspension)

1) Gindlin Toxfodder (https://wiki.project1999.com/Gindlin_Toxfodder) -- West Karana (https://wiki.project1999.com/West_Karana) (-3000, -13400), See him for Spine Break, Athropic Sap, and Aching Blood.
2) Ennixy Frennor (https://wiki.project1999.com/Ennixy_Frennor) -- Steamfont Mountains (https://wiki.project1999.com/Steamfont_Mountains) (1380, -830) : See her for Calcium Rot and some fun Bertoxx assassin roleplay guides. Sells King's Thorn (https://wiki.project1999.com/King%27s_Thorn). Does not sell Mortar and Pestle, Sealed Poison Vials, and Constrict Suspensions. Bring those with you.
3) Brak Daggermist (https://wiki.project1999.com/Brak_Daggermist) -- Firiona Vie (https://wiki.project1999.com/Firiona_Vie) (-3600, 2300) : See him for Spirit of Sloth. Sells all ingredients.


Using this guide to get 250 skill should cost you about 6k if I remember correctly. The primary stat for Make Poison is Dexterity or the higher of Int/Wis if you're a gifted sort. In general, I recommend selling back the poisons. Apply Poison needs to be about 100 skill for reliable applies. Either train Apply Poison with the cheaper poisons or use practice points. Spine Break is honestly really good. It's just that poison sucks to carry to around. Good luck!

Thanks Aton!!

[7thGate]

That's a really good question. It's probably not too bad now. Mana sieve poison has been my I'm gonna get around to trying that thing for over a year now.

Spine break is really good. I've been trying to find useful uses for various poisons for a while now, I should update the poisons page with stuff I've been able to do.

Mana sieve can work if you don't have enchanters, I've seived out Karkona before with it. The fact it can resist though just makes it so much easier to get an enchanter unless you're trying for a specific low man.

Blinding Poison III has been my experimental thing recently. Its a pain in the ass to make since it needs burned out lightstones, but blind is one of the only crowd control conditions that doesn't have an immunity ability, so anything in the game that doesn't have good enough poison resists can be blinded.

So far, I've verified I can't land on Sonatalak, I can't land on CT, can land on Dain Frostreaver, can land on flurry drakes. Have verified blinded summoning mobs do not summon while fear pathing. Need to verify behavior on rooted mobs and people in melee who are not top of aggro list.

Saved a raid from wiping once on a flurry, where the tanks went down and I blinded+nimbled it away to give the rest of the raid a chance to camp out, but I haven't been able to find a good raid use otherwise yet. I thought maybe it could be used to goaltend Vulak guards, but kiting them is just better probably. Blinding Dain would probably be decent except most uses probably count as a stall.

I probably should figure out the aggro post changes too, since its probably worth sticking a 550 DD on before engage if its low and if its high its still useful for initial snap aggro to bump for warriors to build totem charges and stuff like that if there isn't a ranger with disc up.

[svelto]

This thread is making me want to invest in trying this out. I am never in a position where I'm rolling in plat, but this might be fun.

[Cecily]

Spine break is really good. I've been trying to find useful uses for various poisons for a while now, I should update the poisons page with stuff I've been able to do.

Mana sieve can work if you don't have enchanters, I've seived out Karkona before with it. The fact it can resist though just makes it so much easier to get an enchanter unless you're trying for a specific low man.

Blinding Poison III has been my experimental thing recently. Its a pain in the ass to make since it needs burned out lightstones, but blind is one of the only crowd control conditions that doesn't have an immunity ability, so anything in the game that doesn't have good enough poison resists can be blinded.

So far, I've verified I can't land on Sonatalak, I can't land on CT, can land on Dain Frostreaver, can land on flurry drakes. Have verified blinded summoning mobs do not summon while fear pathing. Need to verify behavior on rooted mobs and people in melee who are not top of aggro list.

Saved a raid from wiping once on a flurry, where the tanks went down and I blinded+nimbled it away to give the rest of the raid a chance to camp out, but I haven't been able to find a good raid use otherwise yet. I thought maybe it could be used to goaltend Vulak guards, but kiting them is just better probably. Blinding Dain would probably be decent except most uses probably count as a stall.

I probably should figure out the aggro post changes too, since its probably worth sticking a 550 DD on before engage if its low and if its high its still useful for initial snap aggro to bump for warriors to build totem charges and stuff like that if there isn't a ranger with disc up.
Amazingly informative post. Thank you.

[jolanar]

This thread is making me want to invest in trying this out. I am never in a position where I'm rolling in plat, but this might be fun.

One of the fun parts about poisons is that it turns otherwise junk loot into fun.

Some of the most fun I have had here is running around collecting random drops to make poisons. Collecting zombie skins to make my own vials. Working on Pottery.

Granted, it's all ultimately a waste of time when 99.95% of the time Spine Break from vendor bought items is all you need. But it sure is a fun waste of time. :D

[Silverback]

Spine Break effect:
Paralyzing Poison 1
Increase Poison Counter by 2
2 : Decrease Movement Speed by 95%
3 : Decrease Attack Speed by 50%

I tested intimidation after I landed Spine Break figuring I’d have an easy fear kite on the off chance intimidation hits. When intimidation lands The mob does not fear and acts rooted until Spine Break: Paralyzing Poison 1 wears off and then the fear effect sends the mob sprinting to its friends.

Is the 95% movement decrease supposed to be a root by design and not snare?

[Cecily]

It's a root + slow. When the effect ends, which can terminate randomly like other roots, both the root and the slow end. There is snare poison line if you're trying to fear kite.

[loramin]

Some genius done went and messed up the guide on the wiki……

Wasn't me, but I see what you mean. I remade that list as a table: https://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Make_Poison

Please let me know if it's clearer now.

[Cecily]

Quite honestly, I feel like they ruined my intent with the tHriTy aLteRnaTiVes, and as such I still hate it. It's not a convenient path. It's vendor bought. Make poison is not a skill to be saving coppers over.


For reference, this is the bad guide I murdered in favor of mine:


Project 1999 Specific Skill Raising Guide

To start, put as many trainer points in as possible that should put you at 21 points, place points in apply poison as well. With this skill you should be looking for asp venom sacks which you can then use to raise your skill to 24.
From there you'll be making extract's so you'll need to collect any of the following ingredients:


permafrost crystals, russet oxide, jack-o-lantern fungus, charcoal, iron oxide

Combine any one of these with a water flask and a empty vial up to level 36
At this point start purchasing lined vials and suspensions and take the opportunity to collect putrid bile it takes two putrid's per combine to make a putrid bane but you can do this up until 56
Your next combine is called lixt-wing dust which requires embalming dust it also takes two dusts for a combine but can be used to achieve a skill of 76 fairly easily.
Festering nettle is your next goal so collect and or purchase ashroot and make the combine until you reach a skill of 87 at the point you are trivial and need to move on.
From this point move to WK, and find a person named Gindlin Toxfodder near the Northern Karana (https://wiki.project1999.com/Northern_Karana) zoneline towards the bottom of the zone, from him you'll be purchasing Lactera and constrict suspension continue making aching blood until you reach a skill of 108 and they become trivial
You'll now be using sealed vials, and at this point you need to find Gelsemium Root which is available at alchemy merchants so all you'll need to do at this point is run from WK to Halas and continue making brain freeze until a skill of 130.
Now onto making choking asmag, all you'll need to do is collect asmag weed which is in abundance around Sol A use this combine to attain a trivial skill of 151 and then you'll need to move on
Collect more sealed vials and suspension and head over to Steamfont Mountains (https://wiki.project1999.com/Steamfont_Mountains), you'll need to locate an NPC named Ennixy Frennor and begin purchasing King's Thorn you'll be making calcium rot until a skill level of 172 when it becomes trivial at that point you'll need to move on
Now all you'll need to do is spend some time in Splitpaw Lair (https://wiki.project1999.com/Splitpaw_Lair), and while there collect stacks of Wolves' bane which drops after every kill so it's fairly easy to accrue several stacks use a larent suspension and a sealed vial to create Monk's Hood aconite until you reach a skill of 194. While here also collect white hellbore which will be used to create visionic pain used to obtain a skill level of 204.
Now you'll have to do several combines which can be time consuming in order to make metallic alkaloid but first stuff first:


Create lead peroxide by acquiring Tumpy Tonic and purchasing lead sulphide from Myre in Kaladim near the bank, I'd find a brewer to make you several stacks of tonic beforehand.
Buy Cinnabar from Myre in Kaladim (https://wiki.project1999.com/Kaladim) and combine this with Gnomish Spirits which can be found around the area, if not head back to freeport and buy more from the dock area, you'll use this combine to make quicksilver
Combine lead sulphide with limestone which is bought from Myre to create white lead

Combine the following: Lead Peroxide, Quicksilver, White Lead with a sealed vial and larent suspension to make metallic alkaloid until you reach a skill of 215
Your next goal is Amnesic Lolium (https://wiki.project1999.com/Amnesic_Lolium) which requires Snowfall Algae (https://wiki.project1999.com/Snowfall_Algae) and Tares Lichen (https://wiki.project1999.com/Tares_Lichen) the algae can be bought at alchemy shops and the lichen is dropped in Permafrost (https://wiki.project1999.com/Permafrost) from goblins so it's easier to stay around the Halas (https://wiki.project1999.com/Halas) area, continue to make this combine with a sealed vial and larent suspension until you reach 236
Make your way to Nagafen's Lair (https://wiki.project1999.com/Nagafen%27s_Lair) and as you kill Kobolds you should be looting death caps and black henbane which then can be used to create crippling peptide until a skill of 247
Temporal rot can now be made which can be used to achieve a skill of 258, this recipe is fairly simple just collect embalming dust and head back to the steamfont merchant buy more kings thorn and wood rose and make the combine.
While at the steamfont merchant take the opportunity to pick up some brimstone, you'll need this to make Iron Dimethyl, take the brimstone and combine it with two small pieces of ore found at Groflah's forge to create iron sulphide combine with two quicksilvers that I showed you how to make earlier to create Iron Dimethyl, repeat this until you attain a skill of 268
This would be the cap so far in P99 due to several recipes being absent until kunark, when kunark is released you'll begin again starting with spirit of sloth which is trivial at 275. Goodluck!Vs.


https://i.imgur.com/rjWIEGy.png

[Cecily]

Combine the following: Lead Peroxide, Quicksilver, White Lead with a sealed vial and larent suspension to make metallic alkaloid until you reach a skill of 215There was a fun exploit abused pretty heavily on Red where rogue poisons were devastatingly effective if they landed in mass PvP. It involved training on Quicksilver to 250 skill, easily acquired from vendors in Kaladim, which should have been a 15 skill trivial sub-combine for high level poisons. Patched out a long time ago, but that used to make me mad how easily Red rogues got their skill up.

[loramin]

Well, I tried to make it work for everyone. If someone wants your "convenient" path, they just read down the left column. If they want to save their pennies, they can look to the right.

Alternatively, we could have two separate tables, but that felt unnecessary.

[Silverback]

It's a root + slow. When the effect ends, which can terminate randomly like other roots, both the root and the slow end. There is snare poison line if you're trying to fear kite.
Cool, thanks. Time to farm up some whore’s bane for the muscle lock 2 poison

[jolanar]

The table looks worse to me than the way it was before (no offense).

The saving pennies route that was suggested was also just a really bad route. Grave Mold, Embalming Dust, Ashroot and even Whore's Bane are not practical to farm in large numbers. I vote that it just be removed from the guide.

The Permafrost (Amnesic Lolium (https://wiki.project1999.com/Amnesic_Lolium)) and Sol A (Choking Asmag (https://wiki.project1999.com/Choking_Asmag)) poison supplies are probably the only practical ones to farm for any attempt to save money. This because they actually make a poison that is not useless (damage over time), and also because farming in those zones is already lucrative.

[loramin]

The table looks worse to me than the way it was before (no offense).

The saving pennies route that was suggested was also just a really bad route. Grave Mold, Embalming Dust, Ashroot and even Whore's Bane are not practical to farm in large numbers. I vote that it just be removed from the guide.

The Permafrost (Amnesic Lolium (https://wiki.project1999.com/Amnesic_Lolium)) and Sol A (Choking Asmag (https://wiki.project1999.com/Choking_Asmag)) poison supplies are probably the only practical ones to farm for any attempt to save money. This because they actually make a poison that is not useless (damage over time), and also because farming in those zones is already lucrative.

If this is the consensus I can easily revert.

But help me understand: if you're a poor rogue with limited plat, isn't it possible you'd care more about getting your poison making up to a level where you can make cool poisons, vs. making some lesser potions that you can use ... but are still lesser?

Whoever added the "thrifty" path must have had a desire to improve poison making more cheaply ... wouldn't other rogues, potentially?

[jolanar]

If this is the consensus I can easily revert.

But help me understand: if you're a poor rogue with limited plat, isn't it possible you'd care more about getting your poison making up to a level where you can make cool poisons, vs. making some lesser potions that you can use ... but are still lesser?

Whoever added the "thrifty" path must have had a desire to improve poison making more cheaply ... wouldn't other rogues, potentially?

If you have limited plat, just don't bother with poisons.

They are mostly going to be things you use when soloing anyways, outside of niche applications. For example you aren't going to be the person that snares in your group as a rogue because 1: that would be insanely expensive and 2: you wouldn't have enough bag space as each poison takes up 1 bag slot.

Even if you farmed the ingredients, the cost of the vial and the suspension alone make doing combines expensive. If I remember correctly, Lined Vials are 4p and Sealed are 6p. The suspensions aren't cheap either. The actual 'ingredients' part is the "cheap" part of the combine.

Additionally, the concept of Oppurtunity Cost means you would be better off farming plat and then converting that into vendor bought materials than you would be trying to farm materials. Even at low levels. That's why I mentioned Perma and Sol A because those also double as normal plat farms.

Anyways that's just my 2c.

[Cecily]

If you have limited plat, just don't bother with poisons.

They are mostly going to be things you use when soloing anyways, outside of niche applications. For example you aren't going to be the person that snares in your group as a rogue because 1: that would be insanely expensive and 2: you wouldn't have enough bag space as each poison takes up 1 bag slot.

Even if you farmed the ingredients, the cost of the vial and the suspension alone make doing combines expensive. If I remember correctly, Lined Vials are 4p and Sealed are 6p. The suspensions aren't cheap either. The actual 'ingredients' part is the "cheap" part of the combine.

Additionally, the concept of Oppurtunity Cost means you would be better off farming plat and then converting that into vendor bought materials than you would be trying to farm materials. Even at low levels. That's why I mentioned Perma and Sol A because those also double as normal plat farms.

Anyways that's just my 2c.
Exactly. I think one of my biggest issues is that it attempts to frame poisons as something other than a plat sink gimmick that you can do on a budget. No. You're not going to learn this skill cheaply and you're going waste of a lot time farming ingredients when that time that could otherwise be spent exping or farming plat.

[7thGate]

I tend to agree, don't farm components unless you're forced to for whatever you're doing. There are some though that you can get off vendors if you keep an eye out even if they're farmed components because they're common or because the source comes from somewhere where there is an obvious vendor to drop them on.

I liked Rancid Wolfkiller as a stepping stone from Spine Break to Athropic Sap, both because it was decent damage when it applied and the only non-storebought ingredient is chunks of meat, and you can usually find a vendor that has a lot of those sold to them eventually because they're such a common newbie drop.

You can sometimes get Soot Hemlock, Choking Asmag or Black Henbane at the druid vendor in lavastorm because mostly people vendor these drops for gold, and that's the closest vendor for anyone who can't gate. I have stacks of Soot Hemlock still for when I feel like messing around with Blinding Poison, because I found a vendor up with 430 of them and bought out the entire supply. If you're able to hit some of these, you can fill in with Choking Asmag or Dilapidating Ash to smooth the difficulty curve upwards with a higher propotion of successes.

[Snaggles]

The commitment it takes to trivially make spike break 1 is very low. It’s also vender bought and cheap.

I dabbled with poison on live and got into the low 100’s skill wise. I was very poor but thought it was a fun gimmick and situationally useful for a class that’s devoid of tricks. It’s surprising how few rogues use it unless they go all the way for selling mind melt.

[loramin]

All trade skills are plat sinks ... but that didn't stop me from "wasting" my plat at level 20 for blacksmithing, on live 2+ decades ago :)

I'm not convinced that the wiki should be about gatekeeping playstyles. If someone wants a more frugal path to improving poison making, and the wiki can provide that (while also providing the efficient path), that seems more appropriate to me.

After all, you don't see (for instance) some mob page telling people not to waste their time farming that mob, because it isn't plat efficient ... right?

[Robersonroger38]

Anyone know if it’s a bug or not, I’m Max apply poison 200, and I still fail to apply 20-25% of time… only been using spine break , works wonders Soloing! 58 and almost 50% in!!!

[Cecily]

All trade skills are plat sinks ... but that didn't stop me from "wasting" my plat at level 20 for blacksmithing, on live 2+ decades ago :)

I'm not convinced that the wiki should be about gatekeeping playstyles. If someone wants a more frugal path to improving poison making, and the wiki can provide that (while also providing the efficient path), that seems more appropriate to me.

After all, you don't see (for instance) some mob page telling people not to waste their time farming that mob, because it isn't plat efficient ... right?
The point is not that it's frugal. It's that it's stupid. You're willfully ignoring rogues who have leveled and use this skill.

[jolanar]

All trade skills are plat sinks ... but that didn't stop me from "wasting" my plat at level 20 for blacksmithing, on live 2+ decades ago :)

I'm not convinced that the wiki should be about gatekeeping playstyles. If someone wants a more frugal path to improving poison making, and the wiki can provide that (while also providing the efficient path), that seems more appropriate to me.

After all, you don't see (for instance) some mob page telling people not to waste their time farming that mob, because it isn't plat efficient ... right?

To use your blacksmithing analogy, it would be like updating the smithing page to suggest farming Muddites in the Gorge of King Xorbb to save money on buying Sheet Metal because they can drop bricks of ores. You would 100% be better off just farming some Fine Steel to vendor and buy sheet metal straight from the vendor.

Anyways it's all a bit silly and I really don't care that much lol.

[loramin]

To use your blacksmithing analogy, it would be like updating the smithing page to suggest farming Muddites in the Gorge of King Xorbb to save money on buying Sheet Metal because they can drop bricks of ores. You would 100% be better off just farming some Fine Steel to vendor and buy sheet metal straight from the vendor.

Anyways it's all a bit silly and I really don't care that much lol.

Ok, this helps explain it; so the point is that it isn't about the "convenient way vs. the frugal way", it's that "even the frugal people would never want to do it the 'frugal' way?"

P.S. This whole thread is tempting me to resurrect my level 20 Rogue alt ...

[thisjustin]

To use your blacksmithing analogy, it would be like updating the smithing page to suggest farming Muddites in the Gorge of King Xorbb to save money on buying Sheet Metal because they can drop bricks of ores.

Whoops, that's exactly how i did it on live.

[oqrelord]

Will reiterate spinebreak is amazing for solo. Theres not another dedicated melee class that can 50% slow on demand. Proccing from a truncheon of doom, swarm/earthcaller etc can be an annoying diceroll.

But poisons really fit into the rogue’s esthetic of preparation before a fight. I could go on with some of the creative uses of the other poisons… but i’ll let the uninitiated figure it out.

[Tnair]

sharing a niche use for p99 rogue poison mechanics here since theres fellow poisoners:

if you apply poison, it does not go off until you swing a piercing weapon. ive found this actually useful one (1) time, when splitting a camp so that the target was free to follow me outside before i swapped back to epic and spine break went off. In Theory, this could let you use multiple Spine Breaks in a fight, as you (In Theory) would root the mob with the first Spine Break, back off and apply another one, then face tank the mob with nonpiercing weapons until you're ready to reapply, repeat as needed.

also saw one guy talking about how much space poison takes up; ive found the only way i can realistically carry enough poison is to dedicate an inventory slot to a Mortar n Pestle, which is then filled with stacks of poison materials. gotta have spare space to empty the container for combines but this lets you carry a minimum of 20 poisons in 6 slots. this also lets you stock way up on Spine Break herbs that are only available from one guy,and then restock vials and suspensions from any poison merchant

[jolanar]

sharing a niche use for p99 rogue poison mechanics here since theres fellow poisoners:

if you apply poison, it does not go off until you swing a piercing weapon. ive found this actually useful one (1) time, when splitting a camp so that the target was free to follow me outside before i swapped back to epic and spine break went off. In Theory, this could let you use multiple Spine Breaks in a fight, as you (In Theory) would root the mob with the first Spine Break, back off and apply another one, then face tank the mob with nonpiercing weapons until you're ready to reapply, repeat as needed.


That's a neat trick.

In the same vein, backstab does not trigger the poison. Useful for when you need to reposition a mob before engaging but still want to open with backstab instead of using a ranged weapon.

[Duik]

In the same vein, backstab does not trigger the poison.

Must be a contact poison...

Also, fucking useful info. Thanks.

[Cecily]

also saw one guy talking about how much space poison takes up; ive found the only way i can realistically carry enough poison is to dedicate an inventory slot to a Mortar n Pestle, which is then filled with stacks of poison materials. gotta have spare space to empty the container for combines but this lets you carry a minimum of 20 poisons in 6 slots. this also lets you stock way up on Spine Break herbs that are only available from one guy,and then restock vials and suspensions from any poison merchant
Perhaps not discussed much anymore but it's 100% the reason no one takes this skill seriously after trying it. It's implemented with poor QoL inventory space issues you mention. It's either keep a ton of materials and container on you or just a few for special occasions and both have major drawbacks. Later on, poisons became multicharge proc buffs that lasted like 15 mins or so. Much more useable, however the proc on demand nature on these makes poison a unique problem solving tool.

[7thGate]

I'm actually pretty sure Spinebreak should actually be even better than it is. I should probably get the info together and make a bug post at some point.

Here, Paralyzing Poison I uses effects 36/99/11, which is poison counters/root/slow. However, in lucy, it has always used poison counters, snare, slow -- snare is set to 95% to create a root like effect. There's two big improvments from snare vs. slow; first, snares don't terminate early like roots do, so you could actually rely on rogue slow to last its duration like chanter/shaman slows do. Second, snare doesn't break on nukes, so you could root and have casters nuke the target without breaking the root effect.

There's a patch note in the June 27th 2001 patches here that calls out the switch to paralyzing poison no longer breaking on nukes.
That was almost certainly implemented by just switching it to a 95% snare effect: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-1.html

[oqrelord]

Rogue would make for a good solo artist challenge. If one used poisons and other clickies to split camp, and then spinebreak poison line juggling until the mob dies via re-applying and using the root feature to bp heal or bind wound up. On poison resist would be an issue…. Maybe a blind, fear, or root clickie in that emergency?

Any other ideas or limitations?

[jolanar]

Perhaps not discussed much anymore but it's 100% the reason no one takes this skill seriously after trying it. It's implemented with poor QoL inventory space issues you mention. It's either keep a ton of materials and container on you or just a few for special occasions and both have major drawbacks. Later on, poisons became multicharge proc buffs that lasted like 15 mins or so. Much more useable, however the proc on demand nature on these makes poison a unique problem solving tool.

Poisons having charges ruins their specialness IMO. Then it just becomes another thing you click for marginal dps gain with no strategy around it.

I like the idea of them being expensive and a pain to make, but very powerful. Now that last part is where many of the different poison varieties fall short on.

[Cecily]

I'm actually pretty sure Spinebreak should actually be even better than it is. I should probably get the info together and make a bug post at some point.

Here, Paralyzing Poison I uses effects 36/99/11, which is poison counters/root/slow. However, in lucy, it has always used poison counters, snare, slow -- snare is set to 95% to create a root like effect. There's two big improvments from snare vs. slow; first, snares don't terminate early like roots do, so you could actually rely on rogue slow to last its duration like chanter/shaman slows do. Second, snare doesn't break on nukes, so you could root and have casters nuke the target without breaking the root effect.

There's a patch note in the June 27th 2001 patches here that calls out the switch to paralyzing poison no longer breaking on nukes.
That was almost certainly implemented by just switching it to a 95% snare effect: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-1.html
Oh man that's cool. I've always wondered what was up with the 95% snare effect. They shouldn't terminate early then.