Necromancer as Primary Healer?!?

[Jimjam]

Unlike many necromancers, I much prefer to work in a group than pure soloing. It gives you a chance to try different strategies beyond the ol' DOT/fear/slow combo.

I've been in several parties where I've ended up the only person capable of restoring health to the other party members (Dark Empathy at 8th, Shadow Compact at 20th, etc, etc.). It also works well when you partner with a melee class.

Set up your spells so that you focus on all the ones that deal with your health and mana. The DOTs, like Leech; the life transfer spells, like Lifetap; the mana restoring spells like Dark Pact, Allure of Death; and of course, your 'healing spells'.

That leaves you a few slots open for misc. stuff like Fear/Screaming Terror for crowd control, direct damage spells, and buffs for your pet.

The trick with necro healing is that is isn't mana intensive; instead, it's based on your health. As long as you've got it, you can give it away.

So, while the melee classes are beating away, you start draining the enemies, and then transfer your life to the team. Many of the spells are efficient, they just work slowly.

Run a health/mana spell on your self; cast health/health spells on your party, and the suck life away from your targets, keeping your life in check.

The trick is to start early. Start healing people right away when they start to take damage. Don't wait until they're almost dead - your spells don't work the same as a cleric.

I've found in many parties without a strong healer, you can do the job in a pinch. Of course, having your pet as an extra tank is always an asset to the team.

And with a single melee partner you can use this strategy with almost no downtime. End every fight with 90% mana and ready to kill more.

My regular group members are spoiled. They've worked with other necromancers who don't use the healing capabilities of the class. Some even REFUSE to cast healing.

Playing the healer is one of my favorite roles, and I'll often volunteer to do it.


Strategy Submitted on: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

Reposted on: Wednesday, March 15, 2023

Thanks to (https://web.archive.org/web/20010727212415/http://eq.castersrealm.com/playguides/VIEW.ASP?ID=4312) Typhuss Boneshaper, Saryrn

[ithaqua]

Yes, necro heals are amazing, especially together with a bard playing regen song. Can keep healing endlessly as long as you have a tappable mob nearby

[wuanahto]

Unlike many necromancers,

[Snaggles]

I trioed Uulump. Pally HoT stacks with necro heal for basically the equiv of torp. EoT chased the stupid frog into the water and the 56 Druid spot healed.

I suspect a necro can roll a reverse heal on a tank 24/7. Even unslowed trash blues that’s like 2x chloroblasts in 30 seconds. Yea, for sure so long as the MT isn’t taking much over 30hp/sec loss.

[Jobaber]

https://i.imgur.com/fhrrKFt.png

[Bockscar]

The main problem is that Shadowbond has a cooldown equal to its duration, so you can only ever heal one person every 24 seconds; and it's 125 HP every 6 seconds, so while it will generally sustain a tank through a steady, easy XP grind, it can't save anybody's life if they're in trouble. The moment anything goes wrong, the necro healer concept falls apart completely. Being limited to 20 healing per second on one target at a time is only viable if it's a strong group effortlessly grinding low blues. Anything remotely tough and it won't cut it.

[pink grapefruit]

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was honestly genius for many reasons. My main there was a blood mage, whose main role was as healer but played a secondary role as caster DPS. It was basically a lifetapping healer class with other cool RP shit like buffs that were disgusting symbiotic leeches you would place on your allies.

This made me think of that lol.

[Snaggles]

I forgot Shadowbond is 125; that’s not quite as good. I just remember it stacking with the Pally HoT for the same 300/tick of torpor. In fact, it would stack work torp for 425/tick. Compared to CH which is over 400/second.

Strictly as the only group healer you can stack Shadowbond and Corporeal Empathy (2.5 sec cast, 9 CD, 215 hps = extra 18hp/sec). Which isn’t out of bounds; for tough short fights shamans frequently torp and chloroblast.

You would have to be outclassing stuff For bond to keep up. To Jimjam’s point, finding a 54 necro willing to step into a healers shoes can open up some camps. Chardok CE, the Hole, Velks. All very easy with even a monk tanking. I just wouldn’t have aspirations of venturing into lower dogs for very long.

[Crede]

I forgot Shadowbond is 125; that’s not quite as good. I just remember it stacking with the Pally HoT for the same 300/tick of torpor. In fact, it would stack work torp for 425/tick. Compared to CH which is over 400/second.

Strictly as the only group healer you can stack Shadowbond and Corporeal Empathy (2.5 sec cast, 9 CD, 215 hps = extra 18hp/sec). Which isn’t out of bounds; for tough short fights shamans frequently torp and chloroblast.

You would have to be outclassing stuff For bond to keep up. To Jimjam’s point, finding a 54 necro willing to step into a healers shoes can open up some camps. Chardok CE, the Hole, Velks. All very easy with even a monk tanking. I just wouldn’t have aspirations of venturing into lower dogs for very long.

The key is dispelling the heal so you don’t have to bond/vex constantly. I’ve also done juggs with just Necro heals. It’s good for most content.

[Bockscar]

While the heal debuff is dispellable, it is by no means consistent. I've been the healer in groups on my necro and Cancel Magic gives at best a 50% chance to dispel the first debuff slot. Half the time, it just won't dispel it even if it's in the first slot--and then it will instead dispel the next debuff, which means that on top of being saddled with a 125/tick self-dot, you also have to eschew any other buffs. No HP buff, no regen, you'll even dispel your own leech recourse half the time. So while Shadowbond self-dot can technically be dispelled, it's not as simple as saying you can just remove the debuff and avoid the degen. There's a number of caveats to that. At a minimum, you'll be operating completely unbuffed while saddling yourself with a 500-damage dot at regular intervals when you probably have something like 1k-1.2k HP unbuffed. It's not comfortable at all.

To be quite frank, while it is possible for a necro to keep a group alive if the content is very easy, there is a reason nobody wants to run with that. It's too much of a hassle and too likely to result in some random person's death because all the necro can do is maintain a mediocre HoT on a single target at a time.

[Crede]

While the heal debuff is dispellable, it is by no means consistent. I've been the healer in groups on my necro and Cancel Magic gives at best a 50% chance to dispel the first debuff slot. Half the time, it just won't dispel it even if it's in the first slot--and then it will instead dispel the next debuff, which means that on top of being saddled with a 125/tick self-dot, you also have to eschew any other buffs. No HP buff, no regen, you'll even dispel your own leech recourse half the time. So while Shadowbond self-dot can technically be dispelled, it's not as simple as saying you can just remove the debuff and avoid the degen. There's a number of caveats to that. At a minimum, you'll be operating completely unbuffed while saddling yourself with a 500-damage dot at regular intervals when you probably have something like 1k-1.2k HP unbuffed. It's not comfortable at all.

To be quite frank, while it is possible for a necro to keep a group alive if the content is very easy, there is a reason nobody wants to run with that. It's too much of a hassle and too likely to result in some random person's death because all the necro can do is maintain a mediocre HoT on a single target at a time.

I have pretty good luck with annul magic/junk buffs

[Bockscar]

Then you need multiple instant clickies. Bit of a barrier of entry for a venue of gameplay that already isn't particularly great. But if you do have 2-3 instants, and are willing to spend 1-2x 75 mana to dispel the Shadowbond recourse, it can work. It's just still going to take two casts half the time, and then you're still taking about half of the reverse HoT's damage. Like I said, it can sustain a group that's already crushing the content and just needs to counteract the miniscule damage that the tank takes, but if anything ever goes wrong, it all goes to shit because all a necro can do is apply a 125/tick HoT to a single target every 24 seconds. It is not an actual healer. I've done it myself and it's got a very limited window of viability.

[PatChapp]

Necro heals work well in small groups. Enc/Necro duo is very strong, necro heals are enough for that sort of thing.

[Toxigen]

Necro heals are OP.

[Bardp1999]

With vexxing mordina it makes healing a lot more viable late game as you can cast 2 shadowbonds with the leech still active. I agree that dispelling Recourse is a fools errand. For any sort of XP expedition a necro is one of the best possible groupmates to have for a wide variety of reasons

1) Can off-tank heal the group like no one else in the game
2) Can main-tank heal if the content isnt too tough or good CC, but I contend necro heal is better with a priest, particularly the synergy with Shaman
3) Paralyzing Earth is the best root in the game
4) Pump mana to Knights and casters
5) Snare/FD for easy initial splitting (don't recommend a necro being a main puller)
6) Can rez
7) Backstab pet and EoT both do great damage (plus high end necro tap hits 700+ damage)
8) Charm in most high end Kunark dungeons - HS/Seb/Chardok/KC
9) non-gear dependant class
10) Best class in the game

[Toxigen]

With vexxing mordina it makes healing a lot more viable late game as you can cast 2 shadowbonds with the leech still active. I agree that dispelling Recourse is a fools errand. For any sort of XP expedition a necro is one of the best possible groupmates to have for a wide variety of reasons

1) Can off-tank heal the group like no one else in the game
2) Can main-tank heal if the content isnt too tough or good CC, but I contend necro heal is better with a priest, particularly the synergy with Shaman
3) Paralyzing Earth is the best root in the game
4) Pump mana to Knights and casters
5) Snare/FD for easy initial splitting (don't recommend a necro being a main puller)
6) Can rez
7) Backstab pet and EoT both do great damage (plus high end necro tap hits 700+ damage)
8) Charm in most high end Kunark dungeons - HS/Seb/Chardok/KC
9) non-gear dependant class
10) Best class in the game

buT i wAnT To sIt AfK LikE maGe

[mattydef]

Can anyone confirm that you don't lose HP to Shadowbond DoT if you FD?

[Solist]

Like all things grouping and healing. Healing is the least efficient thing you can do in a group, on any class.

Remove the damage being done. CC, limit pulls, dispel hastes, stun ice comets etc.

Necros do fine. As they have fantastic tools to CC including ST, root, a pet to offtank while you root etc. Let alone being able to dark and fear mobs for nearly no mana to prevent casters slowing etc.

It's a strictly few set of circumstances when 'healing' is the best job to do for any healer.

[Solist]

While the heal debuff is dispellable, it is by no means consistent. I've been the healer in groups on my necro and Cancel Magic gives at best a 50% chance to dispel the first debuff slot. Half the time, it just won't dispel it even if it's in the first slot--and then it will instead dispel the next debuff, which means that on top of being saddled with a 125/tick self-dot, you also have to eschew any other buffs. No HP buff, no regen, you'll even dispel your own leech recourse half the time. So while Shadowbond self-dot can technically be dispelled, it's not as simple as saying you can just remove the debuff and avoid the degen. There's a number of caveats to that. At a minimum, you'll be operating completely unbuffed while saddling yourself with a 500-damage dot at regular intervals when you probably have something like 1k-1.2k HP unbuffed. It's not comfortable at all.

To be quite frank, while it is possible for a necro to keep a group alive if the content is very easy, there is a reason nobody wants to run with that. It's too much of a hassle and too likely to result in some random person's death because all the necro can do is maintain a mediocre HoT on a single target at a time.

You just spent two paragraphs to explain you don't know how dispells work, and you're bad at eq.

2 junk. Click 1 junk. Shadowbond. Annul self. Redo two junks.

Almost everyone has jboots even from moderate levels. You can do book of sould quest in literally minutes. Bam. Let alone ring 8/9, see invis bracer, or just using lich/demi lich as one of those junks etc which cost 0 mana.

[Toxigen]

Bard + necro can heal 95% of group content

hope this helps

[Vexenu]

"When playing your Necro, heal.
When playing your Cleric, nuke.
When playing your Shaman, attempt to out-DPS a Mage.
And most importantly of all, wherever you go, always troll."
- Confucius on EverQuest

[Solist]

"When playing your Necro, heal.
When playing your Cleric, nuke.
When playing your Shaman, attempt to out-DPS a Mage.
And most importantly of all, wherever you go, always troll."
- Confucius on EverQuest

It aint far wrong wrong.

Why does a shaman ever slow a mob when they have heals.

Because it reduces damage coming in, and thats more efficient than healing.
Why root? because ir reduces damage coming in, and thats more efficient than healing.

A necro does the same. Root, ST, Fear when appropriate. All FAR more efficient than healing. If you do those things well the healing load is minimal in most groups.

[long.liam]

Bard + necro can heal 95% of group content

hope this helps

Personally I would take a Cleric and Enchanter over a bard and necro any day of the week. The whole Specialist vs Jack of all Trades idea. Clerics best healers. Enchanters best crowd control class plus Best DPS. Necros and Bards are both filler classes. They can't do any one thing amazing, but can fill many roles in a group. Not surprising that people keep finding that out when these of one of 3 classes that were originally designed that way. The third would be druid. Primary healers are clerics and Shamans. Primary crowd control enchanters and shamans. DPS would be rogues, Warriors tanks etc.

[Toxigen]

Personally I would take a Cleric and Enchanter over a bard and necro any day of the week.

no shit

[Jimjam]

Necro + geared ranger!

[Crede]

Personally I would take a Cleric and Enchanter over a bard and necro any day of the week. The whole Specialist vs Jack of all Trades idea. Clerics best healers. Enchanters best crowd control class plus Best DPS. Necros and Bards are both filler classes. They can't do any one thing amazing, but can fill many roles in a group. Not surprising that people keep finding that out when these of one of 3 classes that were originally designed that way. The third would be druid. Primary healers are clerics and Shamans. Primary crowd control enchanters and shamans. DPS would be rogues, Warriors tanks etc.

If you’re low manning stuff, Necro gives you dps and heals on a level much higher than bard so not fair to group them together. I’ve killed juggs with Necro heals. For instance on my ranger I’d rather duo with a Necro than a cleric or enchanter. They’re a highly capable class most people just aren’t playing them to that level.

[Snaggles]

Yea cleric and enchanter are more powerful, not sure that’s debate lol.

People often play what they want to play and figure out a solution after that. Especially if it’s not their 5th 60 alt. You can grind xp with almost any combo and necro/bard isn’t a bad one at all.

[Toxigen]

Yea cleric and enchanter are more powerful, not sure that’s debate lol.

People often play what they want to play and figure out a solution after that. Especially if it’s not their 5th 60 alt. You can grind xp with almost any combo and necro/bard isn’t a bad one at all.

Exactly, its not a debate at all. When you lose your cleric and don't have a rep, there are off-meta options that can keep a big group healed up. Necro + bard working together is one of these and they do it surprisingly well.

[Ripqozko]

Exactly, its not a debate at all. When you lose your cleric and don't have a rep, there are off-meta options that can keep a big group healed up. Necro + bard working together is one of these and they do it surprisingly well.

inb4 DSM suggest shm/shm doing 175 dps per

[Toxigen]

inb4 DSM suggest shm/shm doing 175 dps per

el oh el

[pasi]

Did they ever fix it so that having full buffs prevents the Shadowbond/Pact of Shadow recourse from landing? I don't think I've touched my necro here since 2012.

[enjchanter]

did op just learn shadowbond is a spell

[Jimjam]

did op just learn shadowbond is a spell

I just like to share classic posts 1999 - 2001 period from time to time. They are often interesting perspectives for a variety of reasons :)

[enjchanter]

i find them interesting because theyre sus af